Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
* * * * - 5 votes

Dare to Criticize Guild Wars 2


  • Please log in to reply
213 replies to this topic

#1 Kaaboose

Kaaboose

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 159 posts
  • Location:Probably Tyria
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[BAM]
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:39 AM

I'm probably going to get shot down for sharing this but:

The guy is more direct then I'd ever be in my videos but it really makes me feel better knowing there's somone out there genuinly invested in GW2 and is not afraid to show his rage at being let down by the promises that were made to us prior to this games release.
Just to set the record straight I don't agree on the endgame grind mentality of other MMO's as he does.
However I agree hand down there NEEDS to be some challening content put into this game.

#2 Matsy

Matsy

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3105 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • Guild Tag:[zzZ]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:56 AM

He's not wrong.

#3 Bloodtau

Bloodtau

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Banned
  • 999 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:09 AM

Great video. Love how he mentions guru and guildcast being one track minded.

#4 Perm Shadow Form

Perm Shadow Form

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 412 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:09 AM

So true about GW2Guru.

@12:25

Edited by Perm Shadow Form, 21 May 2013 - 11:09 AM.


#5 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:13 AM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 21 May 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

So true about GW2Guru.

@12:25
He obviously hasn't been to Guru lately :P

#6 Bloodtau

Bloodtau

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Banned
  • 999 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:14 AM

View PostFeatherman, on 21 May 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

He obviously hasn't been to Guru lately :P

He's not on about the forums, he's on about the kiss up state of the game stuff they do, which paints a picture of guild wars 2 being bathed in gold and jewels.

#7 Perm Shadow Form

Perm Shadow Form

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 412 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:18 AM

I've been here much longer that it may seem, other accounts, since the 2009.

#8 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:19 AM

View PostBloodtau, on 21 May 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

He's not on about the forums, he's on about the kiss up state of the game stuff they do, which paints a picture of guild wars 2 being bathed in gold and jewels.
My mistake. But the latest SotG did challenge the developers into an actual discussion. Not a thorough as I would have liked though.

Edited by Featherman, 21 May 2013 - 11:20 AM.


#9 velinos

velinos

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 14 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:24 AM

If WoW was a hardcore game it would be lucky to 500k subscribers.

#10 RaoulDukeHST

RaoulDukeHST

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Banned
  • 515 posts
  • Guild Tag:[EXG]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:33 AM

View Postvelinos, on 21 May 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

If WoW was a hardcore game it would be lucky to 500k subscribers.
Guess what,WoW used to be a hardcore game back in vanilla and tbc,you know how many subs it had?between 6 mil after 1 year and up to 12 mil at the end of 2008,so your argument is invalid

#11 Azure Skye

Azure Skye

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2097 posts
  • Location:(づ。*◕__◕。)づ・。*。✧・゜゜・。✧・。*。✧ Magic!
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[CUTE]
  • Server:Dragonbrand

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

View PostFeatherman, on 21 May 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

My mistake. But the latest SotG did challenge the developers into an actual discussion. Not a thorough as I would have liked though.
But most of them are tight lip of saying, what they think, they do have worry about their pay check.  You really cant get a good disussion about being critical, when they dont want to say anything about it. Its suck, i know.

Edited by Azure Skye, 21 May 2013 - 11:39 AM.


#12 Sebrent_Tehroth

Sebrent_Tehroth

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 745 posts
  • Guild Tag:[ROTH]
  • Server:Ehmry Bay

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:52 AM

View PostRaoulDukeHST, on 21 May 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Guess what,WoW used to be a hardcore game back in vanilla and tbc,you know how many subs it had?between 6 mil after 1 year and up to 12 mil at the end of 2008,so your argument is invalid

Yep. I remember having several of the world bosses on lockdown on Bleeding Hollow as well as getting server first on Ragnaros and server second on Nefarian.

Beating content actually meant something back then because it took skill, coordination, and cooperation.

#13 Bloodtau

Bloodtau

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Banned
  • 999 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:54 AM

View PostRaoulDukeHST, on 21 May 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Guess what,WoW used to be a hardcore game back in vanilla and tbc,you know how many subs it had?between 6 mil after 1 year and up to 12 mil at the end of 2008,so your argument is invalid

and now? http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-22464058

#14 RaoulDukeHST

RaoulDukeHST

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Banned
  • 515 posts
  • Guild Tag:[EXG]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

View PostBloodtau, on 21 May 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

now it's a casual game einstein...the exact argument dontain makes in his video

#15 Bloodtau

Bloodtau

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Banned
  • 999 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:00 PM

View PostRaoulDukeHST, on 21 May 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

now it's a casual game einstein...the exact argument dontain makes in his video

Exactly. Weren't you saying that casuals brought the subs? This disagrees.

#16 Xunlai Agent

Xunlai Agent

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Banned
  • 540 posts
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:01 PM

Dontain is still being far too light on ArenaNet. Furthermore his constant gem store advertising is just redundant and stupid based on his own reasoning - it is really starting to grate. Then again if you watch his scribblenauts videos you will realise he has the spelling ability of a sixth grader and in his other videos he demonstrates frat boy behaviour with faulty reasoning, so maybe I expect too much. Nevertheless his criticism of Guru and GuildCast are right on the money.

#17 beadnbutter32

beadnbutter32

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 618 posts
  • Location:Highway 61 Central US
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:06 PM

The inner circle who 'are' Guru and produce those horrendously fawning and myopic state of the game 'infomercials' have a long way to go before they become anything more than hopeless industry wanna-bees.

Let's start with the title, State of the Game, not State of PVP, as if pvp is the soul and heart of the game, not.  PVP has been and will always be a niche activity.  Yet Guru, plays up PVP balance as the only balance worth talking about.

But to get back to talking about this video which is highly critical of NCsoft.  The fanboys will try and whitewash the Anet NCsoft relationship all they want, but NCsoft calls the shots, and puts more resources into gambling mysterbox nonsense than anything else.

If you have played any asian based cash shop MMO, you know the drill.  The games, including GW2, are designed from the ground up for the asian audience who love gambling in their games.  The asians think they are morally superior and want to censor things like gore and sex, but think gambling is mothers milk pure.

This is not going to change, instead, they expect americans and europeans to change and accept over time gambling by children.

Dontain's fan optimism blinds him to this and he still has hope GW2 will change.  It won't change, it will simply offer more of the same, casual content designed to lure players in so they will eventually get hooked on the gambling aspect.

#18 RaoulDukeHST

RaoulDukeHST

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Banned
  • 515 posts
  • Guild Tag:[EXG]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:14 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 21 May 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

Exactly. Weren't you saying that casuals brought the subs? This disagrees.
Can you please quote where i say that casuals bring subs?you are either trolling or just plain...
some guy said that if wow was hardcore there would only be 500 k subs,to which i reply saying that the period when wow was hardcore was the most successful one in terms of subs,why don't you read the posts carefully before making a foul out of yourself and derailing the thread?

Edited by RaoulDukeHST, 21 May 2013 - 02:14 PM.


#19 NerfHerder

NerfHerder

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 743 posts
  • Location:Florida

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:16 PM

He has some points. If you want GW2 to improve and your going to criticize it, you should also support the gem store. Dont buy that RNG crap, get a mini hippo or something. Show them that we are willing to fund this game, not RNG. In today's world, money talks louder than your voice or vote. I'm not sayng its right, its reality.

Although he may want to cut out a few expletives in exchange for some big boy words, if he wants to be taken more seriously.

#20 Baron von Scrufflebutt

Baron von Scrufflebutt

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3254 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:16 PM

Oh, so that's what Shangela has been up to lately!

Now, as I said before, I am absolutely not bothered by a lack of challenging content: contrary to what Shangela here was saying, I do not think A.Net are capable enough to create the difficult content that people would enjoy. I do believe that they can make absolutely amazing moderate to semi-difficult content and I believe this is what A.Net should be focusing on because it's not good enough yet.
Does this mean that the game would not cater to some of the hardcore players? Why yes, yes it does. I think Guild Wars games have their own niche and A.Net can do amazing things in that space, but I don't think they are doing them right now.


As for further supporting A.Net: don't. It doesn't matter who is calling the shots, it doesn't matter where the money is going: after 5 years in development and the recent updates, it's not happening. It simply doesn't make sense to continue throwing money at them in hopes that they'll get it right: right now it's on A.Net to deliver and then we'll see if we should start throwing money at them again. But until that happens ...



EDIT:
Also, the point of the currency exchange isn't in the exchange: the point is that this system allow A.Net to sell gold (thus getting some of that sweet, sweet gold-seller money) without completely screwing up the game's economy, thus making it reasonable to actually buy gold. I mean, why would you buy gold in a game where the developers are taking steps to reduce the value of the gold you just bought?

Edited by Ritualist, 21 May 2013 - 12:48 PM.


#21 Songbringer

Songbringer

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 75 posts
  • Guild Tag:[fgtw]
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:17 PM

This video is just so right. On a side note, Wildstar looks pretty cool and Hearthstone as well. Actually been looking for a new game and think I may try those either through beta invite or buying them once they are released.

#22 Jetjordan

Jetjordan

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 565 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:23 PM

I think comments like dontains are pretty great.  The problem is when people start panning everything about the game and then others push back some, the people that defend aspects the game get lumped in with fanboys and supporters of NCsoft.  

Example:

"I like the ranger and I think pets are in a good place"

"OMG you stupid NCSOFT FANBOI,.  they need total redesign!!!! /RAGE"

People like Dontain know what you actually should complain about.

#23 Flacki

Flacki

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:28 PM

The video isn't that bad, but still is bad in my opinion.
He's rambling, also he has some valid points, but thats always like this. There is always some truth to be sowed in, to make it more apalling to the most of us.

I personally totally agree with the anet - ncsoft relation and the gemshop and the hype prior to the release and all.

On the other side, i don't agree on that casual/hardcore content thing he tries to sell. GW2 was, has always been, and even was announced as what it is still today. A total casualgame.
You can't go buy something, like a citycar with just some little PS and whine later on the company, that you are entiteled to get more out of your car and want to run some races, because you paid and you're the customer and you want it to be like that, so it has to be done like that.
GW2 won't be made a WoW-clone, just because every hardcoregamer feels bored now and yells his demands.
If the hardcore gamers feel like they need challenges and that they only get those challenging stuff when they pay real money to a real company, than they should go out and find themselfs a game which exactly fits theire tastes and sells as a hardcore challengegame.

Then, another thing is this. ArenaNet had GW1 and made it the way they worked it out a successful game with a stable playerbase.
I bet that NCSoft decide to ruin the game, so ANet wouldn't be a major threat on the market.
Think about it.
Anet would have brought out the game the way it was promoted since the plans for GW2 started. Everyone on the market today is in trouble, because of the non-sub-model run here. But 'cause of the lack of kept promises and the reek to the game, to be only a moneyslotmachine, its dying, even so it has some really good aspects and has some real interesting parts in it.

NCSoft has a game coming, wildstar i think. It has so many things copied from gw2, but also some other games, but will come with a sub. Now, waht troubles me the most is, that NCSoft has their ranks inside ANet and can make major decisions which on the long run totally don't work out for GW2, so that then NCSoft had plenty of time to prepare their game, to present then a solution for the now dissapointed playerbase, which will find a improved and bettered game. Every mistake now done in GW2, every move like contend and gemshop and what not, will be used later in games of NCSoft. GW2 just is a labrat, which will be milked for money as long a s possible, but will not get the love needed, to improve and stay healthy, i think.

Point is. If someone wants to play something challenging, then go find it for you out there. Play something, that "is" promoted as such.
Don't start the *it's not hardcore enough for me*-whine, because you think, playing a game and having a 10" virtual dick is something to brag about. You want hardcore gaming ? Go and play on korean tournaments in SC2 then. Thats a challenge and even has some real reward for the real pros, if you participate in the plentora of play to get paid tournaments out there.

BUT, ANet needs the support from a critical playerbase. Not in a destructiv way, but constructive.
We even need more discussion without fanbois or ragequitters or whiners and such.
Being real and having a real opinion is good, but ignoring the other half of the story is not.
Thats the point i can agree on again.

Edited by Flacki, 21 May 2013 - 12:32 PM.


#24 Captain Bulldozer

Captain Bulldozer

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 392 posts
  • Guild Tag:[SoDF]
  • Server:Isle of Janthir

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:29 PM

I stopped watching at the 2:30 minute mark, because it was clear to me that the person in the video had no real idea what he's talking about.  He's quoting stuff about the earnings statement that is factually incorrect, has already been debunked by a variety of sources and it taken out of context.  Hint dude:  vitually ALL money GW2 makes goes to NCSoft as Anet is a wholly owned subsidiary.  NCSoft, in turn filters some of that money back down to Anet to produce content and maintain the game.  Sure, we could randomly believe that NCSoft isn't funding GW2 they way they should and that's why we've been getting subpar content and maintenance, but that doesn't mesh well with the fact that NCSoft is still paying for a studio of hundreds of people and even still continuing to hire at Anet. (http://www.arena.net/#careers).

#25 MazingerZ

MazingerZ

    Golem Rider

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 2274 posts
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[CYRL]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:32 PM

View PostRaoulDukeHST, on 21 May 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:


now it's a casual game einstein...the exact argument dontain makes in his video

I admit, I never played MoP and quit raiding after Blackwing Descent and Bastion of Twilight, but I never felt WoW had gotten casual.  All I felt was that it had decreased the barrier for entry into raiding.

LFR, a variety of difficulty levels and group levels.  WoW was never about cosmetics, though that could drive a person to raid for it, it was always about power level.  That's where the prestige came from.  With the API for counting damage, gear scores and so forth, it became very much a game about the math, so giving people the same armor (especially with transmog) wasn't an issue.  So segregatig the level of prestige by locking the rewards behind how you choose to do the content (LFR, Normal Mode, Hard Mode) just let people experience the content, allowing Blizzard to focus on making the implementation of the content that much richer without worrying about creating enough for everyone with differing levels of skill, playstyles and so forth.

If anything, being at the top of the game had gotten to be so hardcore that even the most hardcore guild in the world dissolved over it.  The challenge is there.  It was just too insane to keep your edge.

This game... has no level of challenge to it.  The most dynamic thing in the game is WvWvW and even that is almost an old hand by now.  The only thing keeping it fresh are the match-up changes, which ArenaNet is forcing to occur now because the tiers had settled and weren't changing up dramatically.

All sense of prestige and progession is locked inside gambling boxes or farming for a Legendary/pre-cursor.  When you see someone sporting the latest look (and therefore the most unique, because it hasn't propogated yet), they are either the luckiest SOB in the world (and this requires a minimal amount of personal effort) or their credit card is likely in the next room hiding bruises and shiners beneath a coat of makeup.

Even after the release of Fractals back in November... 6 months ago, there's oddly no one crying for new dungeon content (probably because that's a train wreck right now too), nor has there been any obvious efforts to release new Fractals (I'm not advocating it, it just seemed the laziest best way to throw new content at people without all the fluff of the Living Story)

This game has no sense of difficulty unless the player chooses to create it.  But then that cuts into how efficiently you kill things and farm them for gold, so you can then use that gold to buy gems to buy more gambling boxes.

Edited by MazingerZ, 21 May 2013 - 12:37 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#26 Evans

Evans

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 424 posts
  • Location:Belgium

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:38 PM

View PostMazingerZ, on 21 May 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

All sense of prestige and progession is locked inside gambling boxes.  When you see someone sporting the latest look (and therefore the most unique, because it hasn't propogated yet), they are either the luckiest SOB in the world (and this requires a minimal amount of personal effort) or their credit card is likely in the next room hiding bruises and shiners beneath a coat of makeup.

This game has no sense of difficulty unless the player chooses to create it.  But then that cuts into how efficiently you kill things and farm them for gold, so you can then use that gold to buy gems to buy more gambling boxes.

Incidently, that floats my boat just fine. I never expected insane difficulty from GW2 and I got just what I expected. I'll happily spend my cash on cosmetics and I prefer to 'grind' on my dayjob and spend some hard earned cash on the game.

Edited by Feathermoore, 21 May 2013 - 01:35 PM.
potentially inflammatory comment removed


#27 Lordkrall

Lordkrall

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5370 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Server:Aurora Glade

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:43 PM

So, what he is trying to say is that NCSoft is exactly like every other company ever created in the history of mankind?

#28 Sebrent_Tehroth

Sebrent_Tehroth

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 745 posts
  • Guild Tag:[ROTH]
  • Server:Ehmry Bay

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:44 PM

Casual is one thing ...

Horrible balancing of incentives is another ...

Why are the more difficult activities in game the same (or sometimes less) rewarding than the easier activities?

Why are the easiest builds to play as just as powerful as the more difficult builds to play as?

Why should I do anything difficult when it gives nothing better than the easier stuff?

#29 MazingerZ

MazingerZ

    Golem Rider

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 2274 posts
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[CYRL]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:45 PM

View PostEvans, on 21 May 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Incidently, that floats my boat just fine. I never expected insane difficulty from GW2 and I got just what I expected. I'll happily spend my cash on cosmetics and I prefer to 'grind' on my dayjob and spend some hard earned cash on the game.

If you want to spend 10 bucks to buy the latest skin, that suits me just fine.  It's your money.  I take issue with the company and how they choose to try and sell that though, and wrote a fairly long post about it.  If you think the gambling boxes are better for you as a consumer than a flat fee and 100% assurance that the product you're getting when you buy it will be there, then I honestly just have to call you a poor consumer.

Edited by Feathermoore, 21 May 2013 - 01:35 PM.
refernece to removed content deleted

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#30 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostAzure Skye, on 21 May 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

But most of them are tight lip of saying, what they think, they do have worry about their pay check.  You really cant get a good disussion about being critical, when they dont want to say anything about it. Its suck, i know.
It's PR nonsense, IMO, and it doesn't serve anyone. Players don't get to learn the reasoning behind the game's design, and at the same time without that information there's no foundation foundation with which players can give meaningful feedback and criticism. Transparency is good because it can open up avenues for that type of communication. It's a discussion after all, not a promo.

Thinking back, I think what ultimately hurts this game the most was the hype. Those flimsy ideals they marketed to us foolish customers weren't at all conducive to meaningful criticism.

View PostCaptain Bulldozer, on 21 May 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I stopped watching at the 2:30 minute mark, because it was clear to me that the person in the video had no real idea what he's talking about.  He's quoting stuff about the earnings statement that is factually incorrect, has already been debunked by a variety of sources and it taken out of context.  Hint dude:  vitually ALL money GW2 makes goes to NCSoft as Anet is a wholly owned subsidiary.  NCSoft, in turn filters some of that money back down to Anet to produce content and maintain the game.  Sure, we could randomly believe that NCSoft isn't funding GW2 they way they should and that's why we've been getting subpar content and maintenance, but that doesn't mesh well with the fact that NCSoft is still paying for a studio of hundreds of people and even still continuing to hire at Anet. (http://www.arena.net/#careers).

I was a bit incredulous at that part. I guess this explains why. Still, being able greenlight the production of an expansion does hint at the kind of power that NCsoft holds over ANet.

Edited by Featherman, 21 May 2013 - 12:59 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users