Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
- - - - -

One Year Later


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 Captain Bulldozer

Captain Bulldozer

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 392 posts
  • Guild Tag:[SoDF]
  • Server:Isle of Janthir

Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:39 AM

I was browsing some GW2 stuff earlier and stumbled across this interview about GW2 from a year ago.  In it, Mike O'brien (the president and sole remaining founder of Arenanet) talks about plans for monetizing GW2.  

http://venturebeat.c...w-monetization/

I'm curious how reading this affects you now, after seeing the changes and direction of the game in the year since this interview was published.  Do you think Anet has shifted their stance significantly, or not?  Feel free to elaborate and discuss.

Plenty of things stand out in that interview to me, but one that is much less discussed is

"As far as platforms go, right now we’re focused on Windows because that’s where our current fan base is. We’ve done some experimentation, and I think Guild Wars 2 can work well on other platforms, but we’re still a small enough company that we have to tackle one thing at a time."

With so many people feeling like Anet is being pretty skimpy with the new content/game support lately, it makes me wonder how many of their resources are going towards developing the game for other platforms... the Mac version is still in Beta (and not quite as stable as it could be), and I'm wondering what other platforms might be being considered.

#2 El Duderino

El Duderino

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2246 posts
  • Location:Drowning in a White Russian listening to Creedence
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[DuDE]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:56 AM

Quote

...so ultimately there’s nothing in the game that you can’t get just by playing the game.


This is part of the problem with the RNG boxes IMO. The skins in those boxes are something that you may not be able to get just by playing the game.

Sometimes I wonder if part of their reason for some of the cash shop things they do is to battle gold sellers. For example, before the world boss gold drops, using a gold selling site wasn't a good idea because the risk wasn't financially worth the reward. Go to guildwarstrade.com and you can see the difference between the two.

Once gold became easier to get, it followed that gold cost less on black market gold sites. The only way to combat that is to make the dollar -> gold conversion go up.

By making the gem store another gold sink it raises the gold to gem ratio, thereby combating black market gold sellers - which ANet has always battled with quite openly.

Other than that, as an aside, I think they did bring out expansions much too quickly in GW1 - so much so that it kinda ruined it for me. Although, as per the usual ANet style, they are swinging much further in the other direction in order to monetize the game. They need something that fits in the middle where they can slowly release content without making things impossible to get because of RNG style cash boxes.

#3 Captain Bulldozer

Captain Bulldozer

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 392 posts
  • Guild Tag:[SoDF]
  • Server:Isle of Janthir

Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:46 AM

View PostEl Duderino, on 23 May 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

This is part of the problem with the RNG boxes IMO. The skins in those boxes are something that you may not be able to get just by playing the game.

Didn't we agree to start calling them "Cox Boxes"?  Also, to your point, I'm pretty sure some of those skins are extremely hard to get even WITH buying gems.  That's pretty lame in my opinion, but not really a huge deal to me since a lot of those skins aren't that exciting to me personally.  I also think they downplay how difficult it reasonably is to get enough in game gold to convert to the number of gems you'd need.  20+ gold in game for a stuffed quaggen backpack is pretty silly, and only really nice because it implies you killed and skinned a baby quaggen (worst GW2 race ever).

View PostEl Duderino, on 23 May 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

Sometimes I wonder if part of their reason for some of the cash shop things they do is to battle gold sellers. For example, before the world boss gold drops, using a gold selling site wasn't a good idea because the risk wasn't financially worth the reward. Go to guildwarstrade.com and you can see the difference between the two.

Once gold became easier to get, it followed that gold cost less on black market gold sites. The only way to combat that is to make the dollar -> gold conversion go up.

By making the gem store another gold sink it raises the gold to gem ratio, thereby combating black market gold sellers - which ANet has always battled with quite openly.

I agree with you and I think its a point that we don't make very often.  Other than the first 2ish months of the game, Anet has done a pretty good job managing gold sellers and botters.  Though, it was interesting to read O'brien suggesting that neither was likely to be a problem in GW2 (which was crazy wrong for the first 2 months).

Edited by Captain Bulldozer, 23 May 2013 - 03:50 AM.


#4 Soki

Soki

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 832 posts
  • Location:My own little world \~w~/
  • Guild Tag:[Bern]
  • Server:Isle of Janthir

Posted 23 May 2013 - 04:35 AM

I For One Find Guild Wars 2™ To Be The Perfect MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game) To Play For The Average Gaming Fan! :D
If You Like Guild Wars 2™, You Should Check Out The Gem Store; And Try Your Luck With the FUN™ Black Lion Trading Company Keys!

Edited by Leyana, 23 May 2013 - 05:46 AM.
Don't abuse bold and font size


#5 dimiguel

dimiguel

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 57 posts

Posted 23 May 2013 - 07:24 AM

View PostSoki, on 23 May 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

I For One Find Guild Wars 2™ To Be The Perfect MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game) To Play For The Average Gaming Fan! :D
If You Like Guild Wars 2™, You Should Check Out The Gem Store; And Try Your Luck With the FUN™ Black Lion Trading Company Keys!


I can't tell if sarcastic... or just brainwashed.

#6 Sheepski

Sheepski

    Seraph Guardian

  • Moderators
  • 1240 posts
  • Location:Manchester
  • Server:Gandara

Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

View Postdimiguel, on 23 May 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

I can't tell if sarcastic... or just brainwashed.

Well as that user prowls the forums looking for any and every way possible to have a go at the game or anet, instead of just moving on and playing something they enjoy, I'd say sarcastic.

Question, feedback or issue? Pm me!


#7 Coren

Coren

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2395 posts
  • Location:In my lab BOOKAH
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[DRK]

Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:29 AM

View PostSheepski, on 23 May 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:



Well as that user prowls the forums looking for any and every way possible to have a go at the game or anet, instead of just moving on and playing something they enjoy, I'd say sarcastic.

I can imagine that tone being sarcastic too :D

As for ANet's stance, I believe it has drastically shifted since release, aka NCsoft sticking its protruding appendage in the pie. Then again, their stance is a bit vague. They do say that you can get stuff on the store by using game currency, it just doesn't mention how grindy it will eventually be, even though it.was obvious gem prices would skyrocket.

#8 Bloodtau

Bloodtau

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Banned
  • 999 posts

Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:31 AM

They should just sell all skins using the store. Charge a bit more for them but it's 100% chance to get them. Nobody likes RNG. Though I know how much money this kind of stuff can make, having used to be a regular at a casino... 0.0

#9 Baron von Scrufflebutt

Baron von Scrufflebutt

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3247 posts

Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:41 AM

Honestly, the thing that most stood out was:

Quote

I’ll give a direct comparison. Guild Wars 2 is both a great MMO and a great RPG, so anyone who plays offline RPGs like Skyrim or online RPGs like Diablo III is going to love Guild Wars 2. Those games cost $60. Compared to them, Guild Wars 2 has at least as much content, world exploration, personal storylines, and replayability. And then for no additional charge, Guild Wars 2 gives you a fully persistent world where you can hang out with your friends online, lots of social features, a live team dedicated to introducing lots of new content into the game, and two integrated forms of [player-versus-player].

I stand firmly by my view that the cash shop isn't GW2's biggest problem. On the contrary, while the cash shop isn't as neutral as A.Net would like it to be (I still find boosters and bypassing the economy really problematic), it's absolutely among the better cash shop implementations I have seen. (Clearly, cash shops that sell skins only (and sell skins without the RNG) are pretty much as good as it gets.)
The actual problem is that I don't think that the game, that the cash shop is tied to, is as good as the cash shop. I don't think that GW2 is a great RPG: it certainly has the quantity down, but the quality is lacking. And the quote shows the issue pretty nicely: adding an open world on top of a game doesn't just add a new feature: it also changes the game itself. And if the persistent world isn't among your most desired features from this game and you value other features more, there's a pretty decent chance that you will find those features lacking because of how much the persistent world changed them.

Edited by Ritualist, 23 May 2013 - 05:15 PM.


#10 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:17 AM

It makes me twinge that he compared this game to the venerable Skyrim.

In addition to that, I see a lot of puff and little substance. He focuses on past accomplishments and future goals, but there's very little in how ANet were going to achieve that, what lessons they'd learn from the giants before them (like Skyrim). This shows in the finished product. You can definitely see attempts at most everything (except for player trading) Mike mentioned here and in other articles, but the lack of delivery and technique makes everything fall apart.

Furthermore, despite my gripes with the Cox Boxes, I agree with Ritualist that that the cash shop in this game is its strongest aspect. It's still hugely flawed though, and that says something about the entire product.

View PostCaptain Bulldozer, on 23 May 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

Didn't we agree to start calling them "Cox Boxes"?  Also, to your point, I'm pretty sure some of those skins are extremely hard to get even WITH buying gems.  That's pretty lame in my opinion, but not really a huge deal to me since a lot of those skins aren't that exciting to me personally.  I also think they downplay how difficult it reasonably is to get enough in game gold to convert to the number of gems you'd need.  20+ gold in game for a stuffed quaggen backpack is pretty silly, and only really nice because it implies you killed and skinned a baby quaggen (worst GW2 race ever).
I see this as a problem for new players/players without much time to spend. Higher exchange rates means that access to the cash shop will be more polarized for the community. The rich CoF spammers can buy whatever they need, while new players struggle simply to afford their BiS gear. Maybe this is part of how the system makes money. Let gold bloated players drive up gem prices while the poor drive them back down with their credit card.

I Cox Boxes serve to accelerate the flow of gold-gems in short time periods, which ultimately means more money for ANet. Gem prices haven't shifted that much since the release of CoX boxes, so however much gold that would have driven the price of gems up has been counterbalanced by the amount of real life cash that drove the prices back down. The actual amount is something only ANet would know. It's still really unfortunate that ANet has to resort to manipulative tactics to accomplish this.

And Quaggans get old fast. They're like the Jar Jar Binks of GW2. GW2 focused on making caricatures of existing races for mass appeal *cough* communist mole people *cough*, so they fit in perfectly and that's also unfortunate.

Edited by Featherman, 23 May 2013 - 01:14 PM.


#11 Kovares

Kovares

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 117 posts

Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:25 AM

View PostBloodtau, on 23 May 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

They should just sell all skins using the store. Charge a bit more for them but it's 100% chance to get them. Nobody likes RNG. Though I know how much money this kind of stuff can make, having used to be a regular at a casino... 0.0

The thing is, while people may not *like* it, they still *buy* it. That's a simple truth most people forget when they complain on the official forums, of course developers know that it's frustrating and awful experience for many, but there are also hordes of lemmings who buy it nonetheless. The customer gets what he deserves, basically.

Personally, I think that as far as Anet (or Ncsoft if you prefer that) is concerned, if playing the game would be a horrendous experience that would make the players scream out in anger while their eyes bleed - they wouldn't give a ♥♥♥♥ as long as they paid for it.

Edited by Kovares, 23 May 2013 - 11:26 AM.


#12 MazingerZ

MazingerZ

    Golem Rider

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 2274 posts
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[CYRL]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:50 AM

View PostRitualist, on 23 May 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

I firmly stand by my view that the cash shop isn't GW2's biggest problem. On the contrary, while the cash shop isn't as neutral as A.Net would like it to be (I still find boosters and bypassing the economy really problematic), it's absolutely among the better cash shop implementations I have seen. (Clearly, cash shops that sell skins (and sell skins without the RNG) only are pretty much as good as it gets.)

This was CoH's model, but despite being profitable, NCSoft killed it.  They even had costume pieces that were limited time only, but you could get them outright.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#13 Captain Bulldozer

Captain Bulldozer

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 392 posts
  • Guild Tag:[SoDF]
  • Server:Isle of Janthir

Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:13 PM

View PostRitualist, on 23 May 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

I firmly stand by my view that the cash shop isn't GW2's biggest problem. On the contrary, while the cash shop isn't as neutral as A.Net would like it to be (I still find boosters and bypassing the economy really problematic), it's absolutely among the better cash shop implementations I have seen. (Clearly, cash shops that sell skins (and sell skins without the RNG) only are pretty much as good as it gets.)

Is it complete irony that the kind of cash shop you're describing was EXACTLY the cash shop model of GW1 while they were developing GW2?  You could forgive Anet for not going with the exact system that Blizzard uses (or any other company for that matter) but when they had the "perfect" cash shop and then pitched it for something worse... isn't that a lot more inexcusable?

View PostRitualist, on 23 May 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

I don't think that GW2 is a great RPG: it certainly has the quantity down, but the quality is lacking.

I'm not sure ANYONE with even a small bit of video game experience could disagree with you.  I've found myself missing RPG elements so much lately that instead of playing GW2 every day as I used to, I've actually gone back to play through Fallout New Vegas, and now Dragon Age: Origins instead of spending much time in GW2.  Those are both games that predate GW2 by quite a bit, but either one of them (even accounting for the enormously buggy nature of F:NV) are vastly better RPGs than GW2... and these are FAR from the only examples (obviously).  Even if GW2 wanted to be more like a FPS/RPG they had so many excellent examples to draw from (System SHock 2, Bioshock, etc.) that it really strikes me as a pretty hollow claim that GW2 is a great RPG.  Its not even a mediocre RPG.

#14 MazingerZ

MazingerZ

    Golem Rider

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 2274 posts
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[CYRL]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:37 PM

View PostCaptain Bulldozer, on 23 May 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Is it complete irony that the kind of cash shop you're describing was EXACTLY the cash shop model of GW1 while they were developing GW2?  You could forgive Anet for not going with the exact system that Blizzard uses (or any other company for that matter) but when they had the "perfect" cash shop and then pitched it for something worse... isn't that a lot more inexcusable?

I'm not sure ANYONE with even a small bit of video game experience could disagree with you.  I've found myself missing RPG elements so much lately that instead of playing GW2 every day as I used to, I've actually gone back to play through Fallout New Vegas, and now Dragon Age: Origins instead of spending much time in GW2.  Those are both games that predate GW2 by quite a bit, but either one of them (even accounting for the enormously buggy nature of F:NV) are vastly better RPGs than GW2... and these are FAR from the only examples (obviously).  Even if GW2 wanted to be more like a FPS/RPG they had so many excellent examples to draw from (System SHock 2, Bioshock, etc.) that it really strikes me as a pretty hollow claim that GW2 is a great RPG.  Its not even a mediocre RPG.

That's the fault of a piss-poor story.  The story has no conflict.  There are no primary antagonists.  The Elder Dragons you say?  Please, they are nothing but the great unknowable evils.  Even WoW's Elder Gods, as unfathomable as they are, had more punch.  And even if they did not, their clear impact on at least three of Azeroth's greatest villains was evident.  Great unknowable evil is fine for when you're trying to plumb the depths of the human psyche and attempt to anthropomorphize our own inner turmoil, our own darkness, our own quiet despair  and give it a mirror reflection to create a psychological horror.  It absolutely sucks when you try to use it to tell a story.  That is why Saren made such a good primary antagonist before you realized who was pulling his strings.  He more comprehensible than the concept of a Living Ship and whatever its motivations were.

GW2 has no primary antagonists, and which ultimately makes their Feature Character protagonists look silly and like they don't have their shit together.  The best they have is Faolin, and even she lacks depth or motivation beyond 'bwahahaha, I am evil!'  They even have a great villain in Caudecus, but apparently he's under house arrest or something.

And the need to farm int his game detracts from the antagonist factions.  I realized at some point, as silly as it was, that I didn't care about the Dragon Cultists or the Nightmare Court.  They had no interesting characters, no concept of lore.  Even Twilight Cult had more punch.  So did the Scarlet Crusade and the Scourge.  Orr is the Plaguelands without the emotional punch.  You go through the Plaguelands, Andorhal's ruins or even a farmhouse with a crying spectre that tells her story.  If you are lucky, you randomly stumble upon a ghost pirate ship in Orr.

The content we've gotten?  Horrible story.  Karka...  Random monster movie fluff, and not a single soul trying to pull a Weyland-Yutani.  Flame & Frost?  Again, the protagonists had no real characteristics.  Just a back-story.  Not even a reason why the Flame Legion or the Dredge would combine forces to begin with.  Southsun Cove...?  Well, I admit I haven't played a wit of it, but it too is lacking in plot, from what I've read.  It quite literally is player versus environment.  No one to foil, no one to mess your crap up, etc.

If you need to write blog posts to add context to your game, your in-game story is bad and you should feel bad.  For instance, I never read Wolfheart, nor did I roll a Worgen, but rolling as a UD through Silverpine, I knew their story from the opposite side.  I read the brief piece thrown up on WoW's website to add more context and a different perspective, but it was nothing new to me.  That is proper story-telling.

Edited by MazingerZ, 23 May 2013 - 12:49 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#15 Sebrent_Tehroth

Sebrent_Tehroth

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 745 posts
  • Guild Tag:[ROTH]
  • Server:Ehmry Bay

Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:51 PM

Yeah, Flame & Frost ending with "oh, you defeated them" was bull.

There were elements in the story that suggested that some other power had influenced the alliance between the dredge and flame legion.

Guess that got overwritten by the desire for more cash shop RNG.

#16 Desild

Desild

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 985 posts
  • Location:New Eden
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[DKAL]
  • Server:Piken Square

Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:19 PM



This sums up pretty nicely what that manifesto was all about. Nay! The entire game!

I'm so funny...

Edited by Desild, 23 May 2013 - 01:20 PM.


#17 Draino

Draino

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 111 posts
  • Location:Appalachia
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:53 PM

View PostSebrent_Tehroth, on 23 May 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Yeah, Flame & Frost ending with "oh, you defeated them" was bull.

It didn't! There was also a barbeque!

PS: Could someone please find enough Dredge technicians to remove those useless, immortal, and annoying sonic turrets? The war is over, right?

Edited by Draino, 23 May 2013 - 01:57 PM.


#18 Sebrent_Tehroth

Sebrent_Tehroth

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 745 posts
  • Guild Tag:[ROTH]
  • Server:Ehmry Bay

Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:41 PM

View PostDraino, on 23 May 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

It didn't! There was also a barbeque!

PS: Could someone please find enough Dredge technicians to remove those useless, immortal, and annoying sonic turrets? The war is over, right?
But... but... but... you need to buy turret removes from the gem store. It'll be the newest game content. As fun as uprooting tree stumps in real-life.

#19 El Duderino

El Duderino

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2246 posts
  • Location:Drowning in a White Russian listening to Creedence
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[DuDE]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:17 PM

View PostDesild, on 23 May 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:



This sums up pretty nicely what that manifesto was all about. Nay! The entire game!

I'm so funny...

You need to do more of this. It was hilarious.

#20 Sebrent_Tehroth

Sebrent_Tehroth

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 745 posts
  • Guild Tag:[ROTH]
  • Server:Ehmry Bay

Posted 23 May 2013 - 04:13 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 23 May 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

You need to do more of this. It was hilarious.
I agree!

It's so amusing because of how true it is as well.

Look at how people farm, especially Rangers (pew pew pew with my Shortbow or massive amounts of auto-attacking with sword).

Look at PvP. Most people have their rotations and that's it.

Jumping doesn't matter. There is no variation in speed from sprinting, etc.. You have just dodge rolls which are essentially "free blocks". Movement doesn't matter much.

#21 Solstice

Solstice

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 705 posts

Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:01 AM

View PostRitualist, on 23 May 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

[...]The actual problem is that I don't think that the game, that the cash shop is tied to, is as good as the cash shop. I don't think that GW2 is a great RPG: it certainly has the quantity down, but the quality is lacking.[...]

This strikes a chord as I find these two sentences to be the most damning things I have read concerning GW2’s RPG design & delivery.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users