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Don't ban us for farming....

bot bans falsely banned account terminated

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#1 DerKomp

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:29 PM

... or just give us a legendary without the hassle of appealing a ban.

They have people reviewing each case for botting bans, but they miss the obvious, like how I was making no money. I farmed the sparks in the lyssa temple 2 nights in a row, and other than 1 charged lodestone a night (to be saved for personal use), there is absolutely nothing to profit from there. They almost never drop coin, their vendor grays are super cheap and actually not even that common, and even with tons of MF gear, I was barely getting 3-4 blues/greens per hour. I did get one yellow mace, and when I bought a master salvage kit to try and get an ecto (nope), the kit cost at least twice as much as I had made that night in coin.

In short, I find my account terminated for botting today. No accusation, no investigation, no defense; just punishment. I know I'm gonna get it back soon with the support ticket, and I wouldn't care if they blocked me pending an actual investigation, but with the current process, I feel a bit violated, distrusted, and that there is no way that I, as a player playing well and honestly, can earn a mutual respect with the company that I have a contract with for the use of their product. I won't hold a grudge, but I will certainly be a stronger supporter when they fix all this with something as simple as an email or an in-game message giving us the chance to appeal due within hours of our next log-in before punitive action is taken.

Anyone agree?

#2 Desild

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:47 PM

You have my sympathy man. I mean, they pushed you to farming and then they hit you with the ban hammer? That just isn't right.

I think you should consider joining me and the others in our little circle of bad-talking ArenaNet. Because not only they made the game utterly unrewarding, but they are also hunting down people that try and do their best to circumvent this. It's quite a shame.

#3 Beta Sprite

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:49 PM

Given this:  https://forum-en.gui...s-patch/2088151

It's likely that you were reported multiple times for 'botting', along with the other bots.  If you also weren't using chat or interacting with other players, and all you did was log in, farm, then log out, I can see how there would be a misunderstanding.

#4 Reikou

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:50 PM

GW2's ban policy is the absolute worst I've seen in an MMO.

They literally ban players for shits and giggles, without even any breach of the EULA.

#5 Nabuko Darayon

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:54 PM

As I've understood they'll ban botters

#6 Loperdos

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:56 PM

View PostReikou, on 25 May 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

GW2's ban policy is the absolute worst I've seen in an MMO.

They literally ban players for shits and giggles, without even any breach of the EULA.

That EULA makes it so they own your soul, first-born child and everyone's left shoe....didn't you read the fine print? :lol:

To the OP:  That seriously sucks.  Farming is a legit way to play the game.  So if Anet claims to be all about player/gamer freedom and making choices and being able to acquire things through all sorts of mediums...what does it say about them that they are punishing people for choosing one of those viable mediums to play the game?

Edited by Loperdos, 25 May 2013 - 01:56 PM.


#7 Cobalt60

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:03 PM

View PostReikou, on 25 May 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

GW2's ban policy is the absolute worst I've seen in an MMO.

They literally ban players for shits and giggles, without even any breach of the EULA.

You are an absolute lunatic if you think this is true.

#8 davadude

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:12 PM

Let me give players a hint:

If you are doing something in-game that does not seem nor feel correct, takes advantage of an aspect of the game, provides high rewards, and seems a bit too good to be true, it's probably a reason for you to not engage in it.
Davadude - Guru Village Idiot

#9 DerKomp

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:35 PM

View Postdavadude, on 25 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Let me give players a hint:

If you are doing something in-game that does not seem nor feel correct, takes advantage of an aspect of the game, provides high rewards, and seems a bit too good to be true, it's probably a reason for you to not engage in it.

Like I said, I wanted to kill those things for charged lodestones, maybe get a couple a week for about a year til I can make a legendary gift. It felt more correct than farming or buying gold the easy way to buy them for a crazy price on the TP. It certainly wasn't too good to be true, nor was it more rewarding than 2 lodestones in 2 evenings and enough silver to buy half a salvage kit for the 5 or 6 item drops I got. I was bored and wanted to just do something while listening to interesting podcasts. Also, I never farmed for longer than an hour and a half - 2 hours, and I played erratically, experimenting with different wep combos on my warrior one night and doing sloppy, non-rhythmic attunement swapping on my ele the next. I don't have bot-like stamina or precision.

... If this is the kind of playing that gets you caught in the bot trap, then they are fishing with dynamite. I'm not trying to spread hate against Arenanet. I have always respected the workers, and I want mutual respect rather than suspicion and baseless punishment.

#10 Skyward

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:41 PM

It's a bad idea anyway to force players to change maps (or else diminishing returns comes in effect) just for the sake of anti botting policy. Lots of players like to farm. Anet confirmed they have no problem with that. There are no 'Uber items' in GW2, so why bother? Yet honest players are forced into an unnatural sort of gameplay, or find no nice goodies anymore... Or even get banned because they clear some spots too fast and too often. For what reason? There are players with thousends of gold, not knowing what to do with it, because there is nothing good to buy! My advice to Anet: Make high level gameplay more interesting instead of hunting botters. Just my 5 cents...

#11 Draino

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:42 PM

OP, the only thing you're allowed to do repeatedly is dungeons. You may run CoF p1 20 times in a row, and you're a good player, but hang around anywhere in the open world for an hour or two and you're an evil farmer. Tsk.

#12 El Duderino

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:13 PM

View Postdavadude, on 25 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Let me give players a hint:

If you are doing something in-game that does not seem nor feel correct, takes advantage of an aspect of the game, provides high rewards, and seems a bit too good to be true, it's probably a reason for you to not engage in it.

So basically, if you aren't doing CoF Part 1 or World Event Bosses and getting more than a pittance of a reward, there is a good chance you are doing something wrong?

Actually, ya, that sounds about right...

View PostReikou, on 25 May 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

GW2's ban policy is the absolute worst I've seen in an MMO.

They literally ban players for shits and giggles, without even any breach of the EULA.

Exactly this. It's not like they intentionally target innocent players, but their over-reaching to try and ban botters has ALWAYS resulted in MANY innocent people getting banned.

Of course, you can go take it up with support and get unbanned - but it isn't going to keep that bitter taste out of your mouth.

#13 LemmingHerder

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:34 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 25 May 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:


Exactly this. It's not like they intentionally target innocent players, but their over-reaching to try and ban botters has ALWAYS resulted in MANY innocent people getting banned.

Of course, you can go take it up with support and get unbanned - but it isn't going to keep that bitter taste out of your mouth.
Am I the only one who is perfectly fine with this, as long as it gets rid of bots? Sure they accidentally ban a non bot here and there, but the mistake is easily undone. Its not like people are just randomly losing their accounts left and right...

#14 El Duderino

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:37 PM

View PostLemmingHerder, on 25 May 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Am I the only one who is perfectly fine with this, as long as it gets rid of bots? Sure they accidentally ban a non bot here and there, but the mistake is easily undone. Its not like people are just randomly losing their accounts left and right...

I don't think I am necessarily NOT ok with it - but I know if I was the person that got banned, I would be pretty upset.

Also, the gold sellers are probably much more of a problem in this game than before in the sense that ANet is directly competing with them. Personally, if you can buy gold from ANet for 1.5g per $1, but 3g per $1 from gold sellers - what is the difference? I'd rather buy from gold sellers. Considering that we are now programed to think that there is nothing wrong with converting cash to gold, then there shouldn't be any ethical/philosophical dilemmas finding a cheaper way to do it...

Edited by El Duderino, 25 May 2013 - 04:38 PM.


#15 Scizzor

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:40 PM

I farmed the union daily for long periods of time, and didn't notice any bots. I farmed on multiple servers as well. Everyone was sociable and we had a good time. I actually made a few friends... I think people who were completing the event reported people for what "appeared" as botting but they really weren't.

I actually had people accusing me of botting which i find funny.

Edited by Scizzor, 25 May 2013 - 04:41 PM.


#16 Lol Lol Lol Guy

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:55 PM

View PostReikou, on 25 May 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

GW2's ban policy is the absolute worst I've seen in an MMO.

They literally ban players for shits and giggles, without even any breach of the EULA.

Don't even get me started. First month after launch I was PERMA banned twice for 1. Gold selling (which of course I did not do.) then 2. for Botting which i did not do as well.

Had to appeal both times and prove it was not me, so they would life the PERMA ban. First time took 3 weeks. Second time took a week and a half. It was incredibly stupid. Remember Gw1 when the employees were actually competent?
Note: I'm strictly referring to customer service and ppl responsible for banning accounts and what not. Main game, despite it's flaws, is still very fun

#17 ben911993

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

View Postdavadude, on 25 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Let me give players a hint:

If you are doing something in-game that does not seem nor feel correct, takes advantage of an aspect of the game, provides high rewards, and seems a bit too good to be true, it's probably a reason for you to not engage in it.

Did you even read the OP? He wasn't cutting some ridiculous profit. In fact, he hardly cut a profit at all. There was no abuse of game mechanics, no glitches, no high rewards, and it certainly wasn't too good to be true.

If spending a combined 4 hours farming to only make maybe 4-5g at most is "too good to be true," what would you call CoF p1 speed running?

On topic though, ANet has had a wide-cast net for detecting bannable offenses since GW1. While it's an unfortunate system, and there are a lot of innocent victims of it, it has very well curbed the problem of botting and gold selling. I remember in the 2-3 months post launch I'd see packs of bots, usually rangers with bears and using all signets and a longbow, running around Orr farming things. And I couldn't go 15 seconds in any of the cities without getting a mail about some gold selling site.

But things are pretty different now, and it's a credit to ANet's broad, largely automated system of banning. I haven't seen anyone that I could reasonably suspect is a bot in probably 5 months, and haven't gotten gold selling spam in about the same time either. It's an unfortunate, but imo necessary, malus that innocent players end up banned for things they didn't do. Especially when it's as easy as getting a few people to collectively report someone.

Side note: I have to agree with Duderino. There's not a lot of incentive to use gems for gold when players could get twice as much from gold sellers. And there's clearly no moral reason not to do it, since ANet are willing to sell us gold. It would, however, be very disruptive of ANet's hold on gem/gold prices--something I can't say I would mind...

#18 Snapalope

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:24 PM

View Postdavadude, on 25 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Let me give players a hint:

If you are doing something in-game that does not seem nor feel correct, takes advantage of an aspect of the game, provides high rewards, and seems a bit too good to be true, it's probably a reason for you to not engage in it.

Did you read the OP?

#19 DarkGanni

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 08:06 PM

I feel the OP's disappointment. My friend was banned while farming Karka and we all know there's usually a group or 2 farming those especially in these days. The ban was permanent and with the accuse of botting, after a couple of mails and 3 days without access to the account they replied that the account was banned "by mistake".

ANet bans blindly, after such an experience I have high doubts how much they investigate before banning.

#20 Dervo

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:29 PM

View Postdavadude, on 25 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Let me give players a hint:

If you are doing something in-game that does not seem nor feel correct, takes advantage of an aspect of the game, provides high rewards, and seems a bit too good to be true, it's probably a reason for you to not engage in it.

So... I shouldn't farm instigators or any mobs in southsun then?  The rewards from that seem too good to be true, especially with that crazy 200% mf boost.  Is that an exploit or what?  Shoot, I just got my first named exotic weapon drop from an instigator chest, never got anything that good from doing a meta-event.

I know, it's a mistake and if the person appeals long and hard enough they'll get their accounts back, but you need to realize that when someone who is not going against the EULA gets banned it was in fact anet's mistake, not the players.  And farming items (while being at the keyboard), regardless of whether the rewards "seem too good to be true" is not against the rules.  As for the whole taking advantage of an aspect of the game, you could say the same for making new characters to gain items from the early storyline (like the keys from lvl 10) but they've stated that it is fine.  So yeah, sometimes it's hard to tell whether anet would perceive something as a bannable offense.

#21 nerfandderf

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:24 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 25 May 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

So basically, if you aren't doing CoF Part 1 or World Event Bosses and getting more than a pittance of a reward, there is a good chance you are doing something wrong?

Actually, ya, that sounds about right...



Exactly this. It's not like they intentionally target innocent players, but their over-reaching to try and ban botters has ALWAYS resulted in MANY innocent people getting banned.

Of course, you can go take it up with support and get unbanned - but it isn't going to keep that bitter taste out of your mouth.

I agree that if you get an open world drop that isnt at a meta event then it is mostly likely an exploit. Blue/green or even copper ya you actually got rewarded for killing something. Anet considers that farming now and it is an exploit. Any drop from a kill is farming.
Really bad but that is how i feel. Run speed run till fingers bleed ok. Do dragons all day ok. Dont ever do events and get a drop. Dont ever ever ever repeat an event that is farming and an exploit.


Sad to say also that the ban happy people do their job very well and are enthusiastic at it. Friends have been banned for 0 reason or something didnt look right was one excuse.
Play anets way and buy gems or dont play at all. Shame it has come to this.

#22 Soki

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:19 PM

My game account was week-banned for an official-forum infraction.
Safe to say I'll be getting a refund for that reason: They didn't deliver the product I was interested in.

#23 Lycrus

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:32 PM

If you want a bot free game, then innocent victims will get banned sometimes, too. Just the way it is. You can, however, retrieve your account, which is also a service arenanet provides while they dont have to. Its all quite tricky and i find it bad if you get banned like this...but in the end we have rarely any bots in the game..

my best bet is to not behave like a bot..if thats even reasonable while farming..

#24 El Duderino

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:22 AM

View PostLycrus, on 25 May 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

If you want a bot free game, then innocent victims will get banned sometimes, too. Just the way it is. You can, however, retrieve your account, which is also a service arenanet provides while they dont have to. Its all quite tricky and i find it bad if you get banned like this...but in the end we have rarely any bots in the game..

my best bet is to not behave like a bot..if thats even reasonable while farming..

I suppose you think killing civilians in order to win a war is acceptable as well? It's basically the same thing, except on a much larger scale. The whole argument is that you think the ends justify the means. That is a dark road that will take you many evil places.

Linda like the old saying, "The road to Hell is paved with good intent."

#25 Lycrus

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:28 AM

View PostEl Duderino, on 26 May 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

I suppose you think killing civilians in order to win a war is acceptable as well? It's basically the same thing, except on a much larger scale. The whole argument is that you think the ends justify the means. That is a dark road that will take you many evil places.

Linda like the old saying, "The road to Hell is paved with good intent."

Stop turning my words around..seriously...reread what i wrote. Its like you instantly jump at everyone an assume directly the worst out of anyone...

all i can say is: you are supposing wrongly.

#26 Asteria Rose

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:36 AM

This happens really often, and it's making me upset to be plain.
There's a lot of honest players who farm and they're not doing anything wrong.

It's irritating.

Also: MF is useless right now. I have a full magic find set just sitting in my inventory for when they buff magic find and Noble and Pirate runes shoot through the roof.
At least I hope that'll happen.

#27 Draino

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:40 AM

View PostLycrus, on 25 May 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

If you want a bot free game, then innocent victims will get banned sometimes, too. Just the way it is. You can, however, retrieve your account, which is also a service arenanet provides while they dont have to.

They don't have to? After a person pays for the game, it is OK to remove the product from them without refund by force, with no fair process proving a violation? My head reels. If any such player had the whim and the money to take such an action into US court, I suspect ANet would rapidly reverse themselves to avoid the court hearing.

FWIW, I have never in any game employed any automation or botting software, and have never been banned for botting. But I believe in GW2 on a few occasions I've seen such software operating a character. Modern botting software is said to detect the proximity of other players, can respond to chat hails, and to use zoning out in a programmable manner. I'd bet this makes botting very difficult to detect by automated routines in the code. I'd also bet that little human detection is being done by company employees (way too expensive). My guess is that most botting bans come from player reports, leaving reporting as a grim tool to use in a grudge.

I fully agree with pursuing and limiting botting. I do not condone the acceptance of nor employment of methods that deprive customers of purchased services. And having many years in software, I despise the defense of such errors with "it's too hard, we can't do it."

Edit: And it would take a year of resolution and arbitration work to get it to court :)

Edited by Draino, 26 May 2013 - 01:26 AM.


#28 El Duderino

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:48 AM

View PostLycrus, on 26 May 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Stop turning my words around..seriously...reread what i wrote. Its like you instantly jump at everyone an assume directly the worst out of anyone...

all i can say is: you are supposing wrongly.

You said that you are ok with innocent victims getting banned so long as it makes bots go away. That is specifically being ok with the means to an end. Sure, I don't honestly believe that you would say it's ok to kill someone, but the relationship is still there. Both are a means to an end, without considering the consequence of innocent people.

How is that so much different than what you are saying? It's not.

Like I said, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. It's like the Presidents speech recently; he tried to make it seem like the only way to wage war on terror is direct military conflict or drone strikes.

There are plenty of ways to fight terror without doing either just like there are better ways to fight bots than simply being OK with letting innocent players get banned.

EDIT: Stupid Autocorrect

Edited by El Duderino, 26 May 2013 - 12:50 AM.


#29 Verene

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:49 AM

Quote

If any such player had the whim and the money to take such an action into US court, I suspect ANet would rapidly reverse themselves to avoid the court hearing.

I'm pretty sure the courts wouldn't care, considering the fact that that is standard in any sort of online gaming EULA...

Edited by Verene, 26 May 2013 - 12:49 AM.


#30 El Duderino

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:51 AM

View PostVerene, on 26 May 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure the courts wouldn't care, considering the fact that that is standard in any sort of online gaming EULA...

Just because there is an EULA doesn't mean it is all powerful in the court's eyes. There are plenty of contracts that have been deemed unlawful and not held up in court; although I doubt it would ever get to court.

Edited by El Duderino, 26 May 2013 - 12:52 AM.





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