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New classes problem with expansions


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#1 Knuckle Joe

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:18 AM

I've been thinking about this issue for a while and I want to know what you guys think.

Well, in GW1, new classes came with expansions, it made sense because they were classes native to their continent of origin (example: assassin, a ninja like class from, well, an asian themed world). The catch is, all you could play as in GW1 was human. (No charrs/asuras in Elona or cantha, and sylvari were pretty much inexistent). Their missing status in the core game (prophecies) were justified by the fact that we hadn't seen the other parts of the world, where said classes were common.


However, in GW2 we can play as different races, races that weren't in any other part of the world except in the main continent of Tyria.

My question is, how would anet adress this problem? Would they have to introduce new races aswell in order to introduce new classes? (exapmple, new classes from Elona like warlock or lich only available to undead, seeing that Elona is ruled by palawa joko at this moment, or maybe Assassin and Stalker made only available to Largos)

Would all the new classes would be available only to humans? (since only humans and no charr, asura, sylvari or norn were present in cantha, elona)?

Edited by Knuckle Joe, 26 May 2013 - 02:26 AM.


#2 Draino

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:40 AM

Perhaps the upheavals in the past decades of story time could justify some dispersion of races to the other areas?

#3 Kumori Tensei

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:41 AM

I think it doesn't matter for origin. Races can develop new schools of training and thought. You can have something like Ranger and Necromancer being melded together. Say a traveler was originally a ranger yet learned the art of necromancy and had the two work together and created the art of Ritualism. Where he became lets say a Ritualist. One with nature who summons spirits in order to do his bidding. I am just spit balling here. But the origin is not really that big of a problem imo. People always invent new schools of thought. Kind of like new Martial Arts spawn from old ones and such. .

#4 Cevilo

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:46 AM

for the longest time I was like "OMFG THEY NEED ANOTHER HEAVY CLASS" you know to balance it out. after a little more than 1k hours and 8 Characters (1 of each class) leveled to 80, to be honest I feel they covered their bases really well and there isn't a *need* for another class to play as. instead I feel like they need to expand upon their current class system. maybe introduce specializations like some MMOs have, or some thing to make customization of your character deeper and more complex.

Sense Kumori brought it up. I'll use Ranger.
ok so you traveled down the path did your story beat Zhaitan with your Ranger and his faithful companion Bob the bear. at this point we're surrounded by Dragons in every direction. clearly we need to *power up* before we start taking on any of the other dragons. So we go south towards to Crystal Desert. because Rumor has it, 200 years ago there was a ritual, a right of passage if you will, that heros used to ascend, and become stronger. so we travel down to the crystal desert do GW2 version of trials and such and we ascend.

sense there isn't duel classing in gw2 we keep the essence of ascension, and gain the ability to Change our hero. So sense we're using Ranger, he can have 2 paths to go (I say 2, because that's like adding 16 new classes to the game which is more than enough)


Path 1. He can embrace his primal instincts, increase the abilities of his pets, have the ability to take control of other pets he couldn't before or even fuse his consciousness with his companion to become a devastating being.
Path 2. He can embrace the spirits of the wild, forsake his earthly animal companions, and replace it with Spirit companions. these spirits are more vicious and durable than the ones you once controlled, they will attack your foes as your pets once did. also have the ability to trigger abilities and effects when you hit. and their presence can provide you with useful boons or dreadful curses to your foes.

there are several available choices for each class they can put emphasis on to make them different. you could make the necromancer go Vampire but putting a subclass with emphasis on blood rituals, curses and condi damage, or emphasis on his minion summoning and make him a True necromancer.

Eles could be split in various ways, you could have it sacrifice 2 elements to make the other 2 stronger, you could make it so one path was a more "peaceful" support path with heals buffs, or a more destructive path.

so on...

tldr: I'd rather see them develop and put more into their current classes then try and squeeze another class with different mechanics ect into the game.

Edited by Cevilo, 26 May 2013 - 03:46 AM.


#5 Susanoh

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:01 AM

Realistically, I would imagine that ArenaNet would just do whatever they want without thinking about how it ties into the lore, and then later decide to tie it in in the simplest way possible, if at all.

For example, they'd probably just let every race play the new class, and then when talking about it on their site, they'll make a little note that says something like "Welp, now that the races of Tyria have been introduced to class x, they've learned its secrets and begun training their own in the art of class x" and that will be that.

Edited by Susanoh, 26 May 2013 - 11:01 AM.


#6 Namelesslunatic

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:12 PM

I'd like the idea of them putting more work in to existing classes. The paths Cevilo described are for instance a good idea, which could be fleshed out to be a really good update/expansion.

Though I agree they might just go the lazy way and add another class , which every race can play , without some interesting lore.

But one can hope.

#7 Dirame

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:24 PM

I think it's more likely that they would introduce new weapons and traits to expand existing classes than create a new path for them. All the classes cover all the paths already and I'm not sure if Anet would want to make them more complex than they already are since they are all about simplicity nowadays.

So yea, New classes and new weaponsets for the old classes definitely plausible in my opinion. And the way they would justify it for all the races would be; they went to learn it.

Edited by Dirame, 26 May 2013 - 01:26 PM.


#8 matsif

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:00 PM

1) all indications at this point say that neither cantha or elona are even going to be opened to us in the near future.  And if 1 was going to be opened, it would probably be elona, not cantha.  Don't base new class discussions around which areas are going to open up because it's not a good basis for it.  Like half of the Tyria continent isn't even open yet, calm down about getting new continents.

2) as others are stating, I'd rather them expand on their current classes to give us more variety in weapon skills and play styles.  Give us another set of 5 skills per weapon per class that we can swap into their spots on the weapon skill bar.  Give us a new set of utility skills and elites to look at other than the generally worthless cultural elites.  Classes as they are are generally bland and boring for the most part imo (outside of ele and engineer), I'd really like something like Cevilo's idea, where ascension is brought back and it actually affects how you play your class with your choice.  2-3 equal but different choices per class to strengthen key ideas of the class.

#9 FoxBat

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

Anet is going for "universal" (read: western) themes now. We won't see new classes with "exotic", culture-specific flavoring for a long time, assuming we even see new classes.

Even so you can still make things like charr guardians and sylvari engineers. (Yes Sylvari could've picked up engineering quickly, but being born with it straight out of the dream?) Class lore just doesn't count for much, and new classes can easily be thrown in existing stories/content.

#10 draxynnic

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:41 AM

Just takes one sylvari to have curiosity regarding engineering and it's in the Dream. They won't come out as experts, of course, but that's why we don't start with all our skills.

Personally, I have a strong dislike for the idea of 'split professions' - doubling (or more) the number of professions around would mean people who like trying everything would have to buy a lot more slots (and there is a limit to the number of slots per account), not to mention the grinding to get those characters up to max level and decent equipment (especially jarring if the opportunity to split doesn't come until expansion-level content, meaning that for a lot of the way you're going to be much the same). Only way I'd be able to get behind it is if it's reasonably simple to switch between them - possibly more expensive than a retrain is now, but not by a lot.

On the OP... I suspect that if there are additional professions (and in the foreseeable future, that is definitely an 'if') they will simply take the approach of 'culture X has introduced the profession, and it's spread through the races'. With the Living Story, it's even possible that a new profession could be foreshadowed by the first members of that culture and profession appearing in wider Tyria and presenting a believable opportunity for someone to pick up the basics before it's opened to players.
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#11 Eon Lilu

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:54 AM

I am more worried about balance since Anet can't seem to get balance right with the classes we have now after 9 months with 5+ yrs of dev time...throwing in another one or two more classes would make it even worse. I mean they said one of the reasons why they limited skills in GW2 compared to GW1 was to make balancing easier, not sure if that worked or was a good idea.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 27 May 2013 - 03:55 AM.


#12 draxynnic

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 04:31 AM

It may even have backfired somewhat. In GW1, with open slather on all skills for your profession in any combination, there was a reasonably good bet that whatever your profession, you could find something that was at least competitive. In GW2, with most of your skills coming as part of a set and a relatively restricted set of options for those sets available, then they've made it that much more important that each weapon and each utility skill is useful - at the moment, the power professions are essentially those that are lucky enough to have one or two good weaponsets and a good set of utility skills.
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#13 leongrado

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:01 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 26 May 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Anet is going for "universal" (read: western) themes now. We won't see new classes with "exotic", culture-specific flavoring for a long time, assuming we even see new classes.

Even so you can still make things like charr guardians and sylvari engineers. (Yes Sylvari could've picked up engineering quickly, but being born with it straight out of the dream?) Class lore just doesn't count for much, and new classes can easily be thrown in existing stories/content.

I think this "universal" aka western theme is probably one of the many stupid themes Anet has decided to commit on. I'm dreading the lack of variety that will be in the expansions as a result.

#14 Imaginos

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:49 AM

View PostKnuckle Joe, on 26 May 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

I've been thinking about this issue for a while and I want to know what you guys think.

Well, in GW1, new classes came with expansions, it made sense because they were classes native to their continent of origin (example: assassin, a ninja like class from, well, an asian themed world). The catch is, all you could play as in GW1 was human. (No charrs/asuras in Elona or cantha, and sylvari were pretty much inexistent). Their missing status in the core game (prophecies) were justified by the fact that we hadn't seen the other parts of the world, where said classes were common.


However, in GW2 we can play as different races, races that weren't in any other part of the world except in the main continent of Tyria.

My question is, how would anet adress this problem? Would they have to introduce new races aswell in order to introduce new classes? (exapmple, new classes from Elona like warlock or lich only available to undead, seeing that Elona is ruled by palawa joko at this moment, or maybe Assassin and Stalker made only available to Largos)

Would all the new classes would be available only to humans? (since only humans and no charr, asura, sylvari or norn were present in cantha, elona)?

They will probably introduce new races (tengu) and new weapons for existing classes (hammer for rangers for example). They have hard enough time trying to balance the few classes they have now as there are still many traits that are broken still and skills/weapons that underperform. They would be foolish to add another class to the mix on top of what they already have.

#15 Bloodtau

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:02 PM

Would be cool if new professions were branches of current professions.

#16 Dirame

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:13 PM

View Postdraxynnic, on 27 May 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

. I suspect that if there are additional professions (and in the foreseeable future, that is definitely an 'if') they will simply take the approach of 'culture X has introduced the profession, and it's spread through the races'. With the Living Story, it's even possible that a new profession could be foreshadowed by the first members of that culture and profession appearing in wider Tyria and presenting a believable opportunity for someone to pick up the basics before it's opened to players.

This is one of the things that makes the living story a bit exciting.

Edited by Dirame, 27 May 2013 - 01:13 PM.


#17 Sandpit

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:00 PM

Simple, don;t add any new classes. There are too many useless ones already, and too many that do the same thing. ANet should spend their time fixing that mess first before making a bigger mess.




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