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What bothers me the most in PvE

gw2 pve rewards farming end game loot

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#1 Remasti

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:58 AM

First i wanna say there are many things that aren`t right in pve,but there are also many that are amazing,so this is not just another random bashing thread.

I played 500+ hours,and i played since relese.I`m also a GW1 player and a MMO player in general.What keeps me off is the very core of how loot sistem works.Game is extremely casual frendly and that is ok,but it isn`t ok not to have a pece of cake for hard core players.You can get the best rewards and max time spent/gold ratio without making any effort at all.There is no love for the players that are experienced,that invested time into learning and perfecting the optimal ways to do something.Anet idea of everyone doing everything sounded fine and dandy but in reality what gives you the most fun is learning how to do harder content that seems impossible at first.
Changes they made regarding world chests just make you wanna check the event timer websites,join the zerg and mindlessly rund around tag mobs spaming 1st button.Dungeons really aren`t worth repeting after you experience the content once.
Having the "high-end" drops is heavyly RNG based,like in other MMO`s BUT here you have same or bigger chance of getting a for example precursor while zerging world bosses then acctually finishing some challenging content.
In GW1 you had some easy farming spots (trolls,vaettirs..etc.) but for a chance to get very valuable drop you had to do UW,FoW,DoA ...etc or be very good in pvp.
What i`m saying is there should be some easy farming like cof p1 for example or orr events that anyone can do,and you should be able to get gold that way BUT doing harder stuff should give you more or at least have a high chance for awsome drops.
High level fractals are just too hard and time consuming compared to rewards you get for completing them.Farming daily on lvl 10 or 27 is what i see people do the most.Some dungeons that aren`t super easy are just a time waste.You get some tokens (around 40s worth) and lame drops for more then an hour effort.I did arah p4 with the guild and it was quite fun tbh but it took so much time and then we got random garbage blues from chest.

That is what i wannted to share with you guys and see what is your oppinion on this.This can be improved by the devs a lot so i thouth it a good subject to talk about.

#2 Matterdor

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:25 AM

I would put this differently. I don't think the problem is having easy mat drops at all. IMHO, the problem is that the mats people get aren't worth enough and are too easy to come by. There also needs to be some valuable items that people can buy with gold to give the gold some value.

#3 Coren

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:03 PM

My main beef is the lack of original content (outside special holidays). You can clearly see that people like Jeff Grubb left the lore and continuity team to make way for boring 1 dimensional stories a 7 year old can come up with.

I was expecting a game I could get into like GW, but the stories just stink, the gameplay is flat (loved heroes and henchmen because of the teamwork) build diversity etc...

Basically, GW2 is fun but only for a short while, then it's boring.

Plus side it's free, can play other games without falling behind, and allows me to try out D&d online, along with continuing my LOTRO characters

#4 Draino

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:13 PM

I agree that the loot rewards are a bit underwhelming at this time. I hope ANet gives us some good redesign here in the near future; blues and greens are really just coin and/or mats in the 80 level game at this time, and tbh I'd rather just get coin and mats.

#5 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:06 PM

I'd imagine the issue stems from the fact that progression in GW2 can only be found in stats, yet one of the basic rules of GW2 is that stats are capped. That's why the GW1 system worked so much better: stat progression was also capped, but the game had an alternative system of skills-progression, not only in the form of player builds but also in the form of group builds. That allowed the game to progress in difficulty (by forcing players to run better builds), without having to break the rule of capped stats, and THAT gave A.Net more room when it came to rewards.

#6 Remasti

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:28 PM

View PostCoren, on 27 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Plus side it's free, can play other games without falling behind, and allows me to try out D&d online, along with continuing my LOTRO characters

This seems to be Anet main shild from criticisam.I like to play a lot and regularly.Also never play more then one or two games at the same time.
But I guess there is also quite a few players that are ok with this

View PostRitualist, on 27 May 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

I'd imagine the issue stems from the fact that progression in GW2 can only be found in stats, yet one of the basic rules of GW2 is that stats are capped. That's why the GW1 system worked so much better: stat progression was also capped, but the game had an alternative system of skills-progression, not only in the form of player builds but also in the form of group builds. That allowed the game to progress in difficulty (by forcing players to run better builds), without having to break the rule of capped stats, and THAT gave A.Net more room when it came to rewards.
.

True but there is still a bit space for improvement.More skins (and nicer skins with effects too),some utility items,mini pets...etc.In gw1 you did UW not for the skills but for the loot.

View PostMatterdor, on 27 May 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

I would put this differently. I don't think the problem is having easy mat drops at all. IMHO, the problem is that the mats people get aren't worth enough and are too easy to come by. There also needs to be some valuable items that people can buy with gold to give the gold some value.

Mats and most of the items are low because there are very easy to obtain,so the supply on the market is huge and that makes the price go down.

Edited by Remasti, 27 May 2013 - 01:36 PM.


#7 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:45 PM

View PostRemasti, on 27 May 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

True but there is still a bit space for improvement.More skins (and nicer skins with effects too),some utility items,mini pets...etc.In gw1 you did UW not for the skills but for the loot.

Aye, the problem is introducing content that would hand out those rewards: if you want special rewards, you'd probably want them to be obtainable through special (more difficult) content, but given how difficulty in GW2 is basically tied to gear stats (and stats have a cap), it's difficult to implement difficulty.
The game doesn't give you much room to improve outside of getting the best stats and with everyone able to get those stats (because that's how the game is designed), pretty much everyone would be able to get these rewards.

#8 Azure Skye

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:49 PM

View PostMatterdor, on 27 May 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

I would put this differently. I don't think the problem is having easy mat drops at all. IMHO, the problem is that the mats people get aren't worth enough and are too easy to come by. There also needs to be some valuable items that people can buy with gold to give the gold some value.
I think so too, i have a couple of stacks of silks and thick leather section, that i dont bother even saving, keeping or taking it to a merch, i just destroy them, they are to frequent of a drop to consider it.

View PostCoren, on 27 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

My main beef is the lack of original content (outside special holidays). You can clearly see that people like Jeff Grubb left the lore and continuity team to make way for boring 1 dimensional stories a 7 year old can come up with.

I was expecting a game I could get into like GW, but the stories just stink, the gameplay is flat (loved heroes and henchmen because of the teamwork) build diversity etc...

Basically, GW2 is fun but only for a short while, then it's boring.

Plus side it's free, can play other games without falling behind, and allows me to try out D&d online, along with continuing my LOTRO characters
But of these events feels like, Secret of Southsun feels like the Guild Wars: Beyond content to me. Its content but not enought to bite down to get your teeth into it, it feels like, its added on like an after thought.

#9 Coren

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:28 PM

View PostAzure Skye, on 27 May 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

I think so too, i have a couple of stacks of silks and thick leather section, that i dont bother even saving, keeping or taking it to a merch, i just destroy them, they are to frequent of a drop to consider it.
But of these events feels like, Secret of Southsun feels like the Guild Wars: Beyond content to me. Its content but not enought to bite down to get your teeth into it, it feels like, its added on like an after thought.

Feels like they knew flame and frost sucked more than a blowfish crossed with a vacuum cleaner, and wanted to assign blame on their bosses.

We have NOTHING on the dwarves and their fate, Lydia's fate with the scepter of Orr, the Mursaat.

Here's an idea ANet, free of charge: instead of introducing the Karka, a race of crabs noone cares about, how about making a connection between the secret and growing Mursaat numbers making a pact with one of the elder dragons. Being promised power and being spared.their.wrath?

Or, here's an other: the dredge and flame legion were spotted heading.south and banding together, NOT because they're a repressed minority, but because the destroyers are being pushed out of their nests by dwarven raiding parties, finally able to clear galleries to the surface.

#10 matsif

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:48 PM

loot system has been awful since the game began, which is why the only legitimate ways to make money are to run dungeons or fractals of a decently high level (like 20+), and why the meta money maker is CoF1 speed runs.  Anet has been consistently nerfing all of the farms that made good money in Orr (Lyssa was expected, I'm talking like Plinx and the tunnel) and trying to force people into not farming 1 event chain constantly (maw respawn time being cut).  They even started that stance back in GW1 when they released the anti-farm codes, so it's not overly surprising, but it doesn't change the point that in general drop loot in this game is absolutely worthless 95% of the time, and that other 5% holds rare weapons and armor, cores/lodestones, t6 mats.  Exotic drops are just about non-existent.

What bugs me the most is the lack of immersion into PvE.  Little things like all non-regular mobs being prefixed with "veteran," "champion," "legendary," etc.  In GW1 if you came across an elite enemy, it had a name, and made the experience more memorable.  Heart quests are just as boring as useless side quests that don't have any worthwhile reward, and most events (outside of the longer chains) are both not fun and usually not worth the effort.

#11 Gilles VI

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:02 PM

First you complain there is no hard content and then you say fractals are to hard and Arah takes to long..
Fractals are quite hard at first yes, but when playing with a experienced team they're very fun and challenging, and they have rewards not acquireable anywhere else in the game.
Same for Arah, it's a hard dungeon for PUG's or inexperienced players, but gets quite easy/fast for good players, and for that reason it's the single armor set with atleast a bit prestige for me.

#12 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:27 PM

View Postmatsif, on 27 May 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

What bugs me the most is the lack of immersion into PvE.  Little things like all non-regular mobs being prefixed with "veteran," "champion," "legendary," etc.  In GW1 if you came across an elite enemy, it had a name, and made the experience more memorable.  Heart quests are just as boring as useless side quests that don't have any worthwhile reward, and most events (outside of the longer chains) are both not fun and usually not worth the effort.

Interestingly enough, those generic names were created to increase immersion: A.Net said that it would be immersion breaking if you'd kill a uniquely named guy, only for him to respawn 10 seconds later.

#13 Featherman

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:36 PM

View PostRitualist, on 27 May 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Interestingly enough, those generic names were created to increase immersion: A.Net said that it would be immersion breaking if you'd kill a uniquely named guy, only for him to respawn 10 seconds later.
And yet the DEs that run on predictable timers don't somehow break immersion :P

#14 Remasti

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 05:04 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 27 May 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

First you complain there is no hard content and then you say fractals are to hard and Arah takes to long..
Fractals are quite hard at first yes, but when playing with a experienced team they're very fun and challenging, and they have rewards not acquireable anywhere else in the game.
Same for Arah, it's a hard dungeon for PUG's or inexperienced players, but gets quite easy/fast for good players, and for that reason it's the single armor set with atleast a bit prestige for me.

lol read my post carefully.I said fractals are hard and time consuming compared to the rewards you get for completing them.Try farming cof with full zerk no brainer group for the same amount of time that a experienced group would need for lvl 30 or 40+ fractal.Tell me who got more gold you or them.
Arah is perfectly fine and I had no problems doing it with my guild but i does take long compared to other dungeons and then gives you random blues.That was my point.

#15 Gilles VI

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:19 AM

View PostRemasti, on 27 May 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

lol read my post carefully.I said fractals are hard and time consuming compared to the rewards you get for completing them.Try farming cof with full zerk no brainer group for the same amount of time that a experienced group would need for lvl 30 or 40+ fractal.Tell me who got more gold you or them.
Arah is perfectly fine and I had no problems doing it with my guild but i does take long compared to other dungeons and then gives you random blues.That was my point.

Fractals give fractal weapons + the shiny backpack, both of which can't be acquired somewhere else (CoF1) and soulbound on acquire.
As the endgame in GW2 is about looks, I'd say these are pretty important aspects of fractals.
Same for Arah, Cause of the difficulty the Arrah armor actually has some skill tied to it.
And the dungeon isn't that long, you can easely complete p3 within 30 minutes.

#16 Kaaboose

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:46 AM

View PostRemasti, on 27 May 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

First i wanna say there are many things that aren`t right in pve,but there are also many that are amazing,so this is not just another random bashing thread.

I played 500+ hours,and i played since relese.I`m also a GW1 player and a MMO player in general.What keeps me off is the very core of how loot sistem works.Game is extremely casual frendly and that is ok,but it isn`t ok not to have a pece of cake for hard core players.You can get the best rewards and max time spent/gold ratio without making any effort at all.There is no love for the players that are experienced,that invested time into learning and perfecting the optimal ways to do something.Anet idea of everyone doing everything sounded fine and dandy but in reality what gives you the most fun is learning how to do harder content that seems impossible at first.
Changes they made regarding world chests just make you wanna check the event timer websites,join the zerg and mindlessly rund around tag mobs spaming 1st button.Dungeons really aren`t worth repeting after you experience the content once.
Having the "high-end" drops is heavyly RNG based,like in other MMO`s BUT here you have same or bigger chance of getting a for example precursor while zerging world bosses then acctually finishing some challenging content.
In GW1 you had some easy farming spots (trolls,vaettirs..etc.) but for a chance to get very valuable drop you had to do UW,FoW,DoA ...etc or be very good in pvp.
What i`m saying is there should be some easy farming like cof p1 for example or orr events that anyone can do,and you should be able to get gold that way BUT doing harder stuff should give you more or at least have a high chance for awsome drops.
High level fractals are just too hard and time consuming compared to rewards you get for completing them.Farming daily on lvl 10 or 27 is what i see people do the most.Some dungeons that aren`t super easy are just a time waste.You get some tokens (around 40s worth) and lame drops for more then an hour effort.I did arah p4 with the guild and it was quite fun tbh but it took so much time and then we got random garbage blues from chest.

That is what i wannted to share with you guys and see what is your oppinion on this.This can be improved by the devs a lot so i thouth it a good subject to talk about.
Have you watched this? Both covers what you don't like in PvE as well as a proposed solution.


#17 nerfandderf

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:12 PM

Dont worry coming shortly will be the
"Ultimate Loot Table Upgrade" account upgrade for 8000 gems.

I know a little pricy but due to complaints about poor rewards ect they will allow those with money to upgrade their loot tables to the highest rolls and reduce your intake of white trash.

This will also help with the precursor market as it will increase the flow and availability.
I cant wait and started saving

#18 MazingerZ

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:19 PM

View PostCoren, on 27 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Plus side it's free, can play other games without falling behind, and allows me to try out D&d online, along with continuing my LOTRO characters

But then you won't have the gold to convert to gems to buy their Cox Boxes so you can get their limited-time skins during a two week content patch.  Then you'll have to buy their Cox Boxes with cash.

The game is just a mess in that regard.  Free to play, no commitment.  But when we release something, you'd better be ponying up that dough if you want all the limited-time offer goodies.  Talk about mixed signals on the level of player dedication you want.  At least Blizzard sold me a plush griffin and wyvern to sell their digital in-game pets.  I got real, solid stuff for my money there.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"





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