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There Is No OP

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#1 dannymichel

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 11:26 AM

Guys, here's my thing. We all know Mesmers are ridiculously OP. The order is Mesmer>Guardian>Beastmaster Ranger>Engineer>Necro>Elementalist>Thief>Warrior. The problem there is that the gap between Warrior and Mesmer is just too much. Warriors and thieves are almost impotent against Mesmers and have somewhat of a shot against Engineers.

What I'm trying to say is that Mesmers don't need a nerf. Anet needs to buff Warriors and Thieves to balance things out.

#2 Spearcrusher

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 11:50 AM

Really Mesmers are OP ? Maybe it's just me but i think 80% of the players label any class they can't deal with as OP. Some can't deal with HB and then say warriors are OP , some can't deal with glass cannon thieves and say those are OP and some say Bunkerguardians are OP. My point is that although the balance needs some tweeks here and there most of the issues are l2p issues. And with saying that I include myself.

#3 Dirame

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 12:02 PM

Personally, I think the Thief mechanics are teh worst. I don't think any class should be built on spamming.

#4 Tranquility

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 12:35 PM

Trolls nowadays...don't even try.

#5 The Shadow

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 01:10 PM

Phantasm Mesmer is pretty OP. Shatter Mesmer is strong.

But they struggle against condition damage classes and consistently lose to good Thieves and Eles.

Beastmaster Ranger is OP. Mesmer is fine.

#6 Knuckle Joe

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 01:55 PM

It's not a L2P thing. Mesmers are OP and that's a fact. They should put a cooldown timer on the dodge clone creation.

#7 Dasviidonja

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 01:59 PM

View PostSpearcrusher, on 02 June 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Really Mesmers are OP ? Maybe it's just me but i think 80% of the players label any class they can't deal with as OP. Some can't deal with HB and then say warriors are OP , some can't deal with glass cannon thieves and say those are OP and some say Bunkerguardians are OP. My point is that although the balance needs some tweeks here and there most of the issues are l2p issues. And with saying that I include myself.

I agree 100% they always label a class that stomps them as OP lol lmao I think everything is pretty closely balanced and Mesmers don't need a nerf and warriors certainly don't need a buff

#8 The Shadow

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 02:32 PM

View PostKnuckle Joe, on 02 June 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

It's not a L2P thing. Mesmers are OP and that's a fact. They should put a cooldown timer on the dodge clone creation.

What class do you play? Your avatar leads me to believe that you play Engie/ Thief/ Ranger. If you can't kill a Mesmer 1v1 with those classes then it is indeed a L2P thing.

Put a CD on dodge clones and you majorly ♥♥♥♥ up their burst.

#9 FoxBat

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 04:32 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 02 June 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Put a CD on dodge clones and you majorly ♥♥♥♥ up their burst.

Mind wrack is kinda gimped as is (less damage per clone the more clones?), surely that can be tuned upwards if it becomes an issue.

#10 Sandpit

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 04:45 PM

lol at Ranger being 3rd and thief/warrior bottom

Great troll post

#11 Daesu

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:34 PM

View PostKnuckle Joe, on 02 June 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

It's not a L2P thing. Mesmers are OP and that's a fact. They should put a cooldown timer on the dodge clone creation.

No way!  Dodge clone is already limited by vigor.  If anyone can't deal with a stupid clone then l2p.

Edited by Daesu, 02 June 2013 - 06:34 PM.


#12 Galphar

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:42 PM

It doesn't matter what anyone plays because SOMEONE will always say a certain Profession/Build is OP and then Anet will do what they always did in GW, nerf it so another can become the FotM and the cycle continues.

#13 Daesu

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:49 PM

View PostGalphar, on 02 June 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

It doesn't matter what anyone plays because SOMEONE will always say a certain Profession/Build is OP and then Anet will do what they always did in GW, nerf it so another can become the FotM and the cycle continues.

The dodge on clone trait is foundational to most of the mesmer builds out there, pvp + pve.  If they nerf that, mesmers are going to be hit HARD.

ArenaNet has to know what they are doing when they nerf something like that.  They used to make the mistake of nerfing mesmers so hard in GW1 that nobody wanted a mesmer in their party, before they finally buff them back after many years.

Edited by Daesu, 02 June 2013 - 07:49 PM.


#14 Dervo

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

I so need to make a beastmaster now, if it's better than a ranger than it must have better pet ai or something.  I'll name him Dar and all the rangers will be jealous of me.

Wait, this post was about mesmers being OP and warriors being UP?  Wait, now I'm confused... is this the game where most people doing dungeons want at least 3 warriors in a group, only take mesmers for portals and such, and don't take necros seriously in most parts of the game?

Ah well, I don't care, I've got my beastmaster set up with a lion and tiger and bear... I should probably stop myself there and just play some actual gw2 though.

Edited by Dervo, 02 June 2013 - 08:00 PM.


#15 Daesu

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

View PostDervo, on 02 June 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Wait, this post was about mesmers being OP and warriors being UP?  Wait, now I'm confused... is this the game where most people doing dungeons want at least 3 warriors in a group, only take mesmers for portals and such, and don't take necros seriously in most parts of the game?

That is why the opening post is biased.  If warriors are the weakest class, then I must be the most skillful warrior because having played all classes, I feel the warrior to be the strongest class in terms of dps as well as defenses.

I am honestly surprised that they have not nerfed the warrior yet, it remains much stronger than the other classes.

Edited by Daesu, 02 June 2013 - 08:10 PM.


#16 Galphar

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

View PostDaesu, on 02 June 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

The dodge on clone trait is foundational to most of the mesmer builds out there, pvp + pve.  If they nerf that, mesmers are going to be hit HARD.

ArenaNet has to know what they are doing when they nerf something like that.  They used to make the mistake of nerfing mesmers so hard in GW1 that nobody wanted a mesmer in their party, before they finally buff them back after many years.

And a nerf to Ranger pets will do the same thing, yet they said they're nerfing them in the SotG.

#17 matsif

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:53 PM

View PostDervo, on 02 June 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Wait, this post was about mesmers being OP and warriors being UP?  Wait, now I'm confused... is this the game where most people doing dungeons want at least 3 warriors in a group, only take mesmers for portals and such, and don't take necros seriously in most parts of the game?

I was about to make a long winded response in this thread, and as I kept reading responses it hit me: this is about PvP.  There is seriously no one that would call a warrior underpowered for PvE, even if you a lobotomized chimp you can see that.  And there is no way that warrior and thief are worse than necro in PvE, as PvE necro is by far the worst class right now for anything in PvE.  And mesmers are underwhelming imo for PvE as well, they are basically just reflects and time warp for groups and not much else.

sweet troll post OP.

Edited by matsif, 02 June 2013 - 08:53 PM.


#18 Knuckle Joe

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 09:52 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 02 June 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

What class do you play? Your avatar leads me to believe that you play Engie/ Thief/ Ranger. If you can't kill a Mesmer 1v1 with those classes then it is indeed a L2P thing.

Put a CD on dodge clones and you majorly ♥♥♥♥ up their burst.

Elementalist, and I do have a hard time with mesmers, I know how to dodge and I pack 3 stun breakers, but when they can just shrug off a dodged blow by dodging 2 times and preparing their rotation again in a relatively small wait time, all while having vigor, staying away from the fight, and becoming invulnerable at will (distortion), having blinks AND invisibility, thats a bit too much really.

Not to mention phantasm mesmer. That is ridiculous.

Edited by Knuckle Joe, 02 June 2013 - 09:53 PM.


#19 The Shadow

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:10 PM

View PostKnuckle Joe, on 02 June 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Elementalist, and I do have a hard time with mesmers, I know how to dodge and I pack 3 stun breakers, but when they can just shrug off a dodged blow by dodging 2 times and preparing their rotation again in a relatively small wait time, all while having vigor, staying away from the fight, and becoming invulnerable at will (distortion), having blinks AND invisibility, thats a bit too much really.

Not to mention phantasm mesmer. That is ridiculous.

The Elementalist in my pre-made can survive/ bail 3v1 situations.

Elementalist is one of the classes that is borderline OP, if you use Phantaram's or Ultima's build you really shouldn't have an issue with standard shatter builds in PvP.

Mesmers are incredibly easy to deal with when you understand their skills and mechanics better. Some things to look out for: Distortion/ Shatters/ Blink/ Mirror Images/ Chaos armor/ field/ Blurred Frenzy/ Temperal Curtain.

If you look out for those things and know what they do and how to deal with them you can, honest to god, beat any Mesmer 1v1 as almost any class. The only way a Mesmer can win 1v1s against good foes are by being clever with blink locations.

#20 Knuckle Joe

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:15 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 02 June 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

The Elementalist in my pre-made can survive/ bail 3v1 situations.

Elementalist is one of the classes that is borderline OP, if you use Phantaram's or Ultima's build you really shouldn't have an issue with standard shatter builds in PvP.

Mesmers are incredibly easy to deal with when you understand their skills and mechanics better. Some things to look out for: Distortion/ Shatters/ Blink/ Mirror Images/ Chaos armor/ field/ Blurred Frenzy/ Temperal Curtain.

If you look out for those things and know what they do and how to deal with them you can, honest to god, beat any Mesmer 1v1 as almost any class. The only way a Mesmer can win 1v1s against good foes are by being clever with blink locations.

Ele is good too, but when you look closely at all those wvw and spvp videos where an ele is mobbing people up, you can see the enemies have no idea how to play their classes. When you come against people who are at least aware of what they can do, things get pretty different.

#21 The Shadow

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:26 PM

View PostKnuckle Joe, on 02 June 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

Ele is good too, but when you look closely at all those wvw and spvp videos where an ele is mobbing people up, you can see the enemies have no idea how to play their classes. When you come against people who are at least aware of what they can do, things get pretty different.

I'm talking about TPvP not WvW, Idk much about WvW anymore.

#22 Knuckle Joe

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:32 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 02 June 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

I'm talking about TPvP not WvW, Idk much about WvW anymore.
TPvP that's completely unknown to me, I'll give you credibility for that.

But yeah, I guess it is the human body limitations themselves that makes playing against a Mesmer (and maybe thieves)so hard. Talking about reaction time and swimming in a river of clones.

#23 Gerroh

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 11:12 PM

Mesmers and thieves have mechanics that make them inherently gamebreaking. There are things programmed into the game that are made specifically for them, where as other profession mechanics could be mimicked or even copied by adjusting numbers and effects here and there on already existing skills and functions.
Mesmer illusions and thief initiative are gamebreaking, and that's what the problem is. It's as if these two professions have come from a different game where they make sense, and are now plaguing GW2 PvP with their horseshit.
Thieves aren't as much of an issue. I don't think any profession should be as fragile nor as high damage as thieves, but they're not nearly as bad as mesmers.
Mesmer illusions destroy pvp because they make it impossible to reliably make good split-second decisions. Yes, it's easy to tell which is the real one, but the fact that you usually have to stall for a fraction of a second is what makes it gamebreaking.
Pile on the fact that mesmer skills provide everything you need for pvp(all of the boons, dodge, GOOD stun breakers, boon and condition removal, spike damage, consistent damage, two non-elite sources of invuln seriously wtf) and you end up with a pvp nightmare.
I have seen players who make the stupidest decisions, people who are clearly heavily lacking in talent and haven't got a clue what they're doing, and yet if they're a mesmer they are still effective and a potential threat, while any other profession would be a quick snack at such levels.

Warrurs are suffering from the opposite end of the same thing, in that they can't compete in pvp not because of raw numbers, but because their mechanics are just not effective against people who can think and move and react.

Let's be honest, guys, GW2 pvp is a joke. It should not be taken seriously. Play it for fun, because balance is non-existent here.

#24 Mister Stygian

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 11:23 PM

I mostly run with a mesmer in WvW because they are strong but not overpowered and it is easy to take on inexperienced players in multiple numbers with one.  I am decent at playing one but there are still plenty of times I find myself losing to another class that I don't even think is being played well.  Heavy condition damage from engineers and rangers can really screw you if you don't have arcane theivery equipped and water traited eles can shrug off your confusion and aoe your clones as fast as you put them up.  You could probably make a build with warrior that can deal with them easily based off shouts and soldier runes.

#25 The Shadow

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 11:44 PM

View PostGerroh, on 02 June 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

Mesmers and thieves have mechanics that make them inherently gamebreaking. There are things programmed into the game that are made specifically for them, where as other profession mechanics could be mimicked or even copied by adjusting numbers and effects here and there on already existing skills and functions.
Mesmer illusions and thief initiative are gamebreaking, and that's what the problem is. It's as if these two professions have come from a different game where they make sense, and are now plaguing GW2 PvP with their horseshit.
Thieves aren't as much of an issue. I don't think any profession should be as fragile nor as high damage as thieves, but they're not nearly as bad as mesmers.
Mesmer illusions destroy pvp because they make it impossible to reliably make good split-second decisions. Yes, it's easy to tell which is the real one, but the fact that you usually have to stall for a fraction of a second is what makes it gamebreaking.
Pile on the fact that mesmer skills provide everything you need for pvp(all of the boons, dodge, GOOD stun breakers, boon and condition removal, spike damage, consistent damage, two non-elite sources of invuln seriously wtf) and you end up with a pvp nightmare.
I have seen players who make the stupidest decisions, people who are clearly heavily lacking in talent and haven't got a clue what they're doing, and yet if they're a mesmer they are still effective and a potential threat, while any other profession would be a quick snack at such levels.

Warrurs are suffering from the opposite end of the same thing, in that they can't compete in pvp not because of raw numbers, but because their mechanics are just not effective against people who can think and move and react.

Let's be honest, guys, GW2 pvp is a joke. It should not be taken seriously. Play it for fun, because balance is non-existent here.

You blame the game because you can't play it. You also clearly don't know what you're talking about. I find that rather sad.

Mesmer invulnerability is a double edged sword as it allows other players to neautralize the point. Mesmer is often a close-point holder, do you realize why that's a bad thing?

Mesmers run full glass-cannon builds in TPvP, they will lose every single 1v1 against any class, regardless of how good they are, if they sit on the point. The only way they can hope to win the encounter is to blink to a smart location and DPS from range or wait for help. You realize how that's a bad thing right? The point still gets neutralized.

Mesmers running standard build in TPvP only have 1 stun-breaker on a 32 second cool down, no condition removal at all, and Illusion of Life, Portal Entre and Moa/ TW which are all on extremely long cool-downs and aren't used in 1v1 as they have to be saved for mid-fights.

Mesmers have consistent damage? Are you joking? Their burst comes from Shatter, the rest of their abilities with the exception of GS (the weapon most Mesmers forsake for Staff) deal very little damage at all.

As for your comments about Thief, how derpy are you? You do realize a Warrior does far more DPS/ Burst than a Thief and is even less fragile all while being far more mobile? Thieves are good because of cluster bomb, spammable poison/ weakness and stealth. Their DPS/ Burst is actually inferior to that of almost every other classes; Ele (if traited for), Mesmer, Warrior, HGH Engie, even Ranger.

You are extremely misinformed and the main problem with what you're saying is you seem to have the flawed notion that 1v1 matters in GW2. Just because profession x can kill profession y (although in this situation Mesmer simply does not win 1v1 against other classes consistently unless they don't know how to play) does not make it game-breaking. GW2 is in no way balanced for 1v1, why should it be? It's a team game and the game mode is Conquest, that's what it's balanced towards. And when a Mesmer/ Thief are used for that purpose, fulfilling the roles they should be filling, against people who know how to play together as well as individually, you'll find that neither of these classes are OP and that you simply don't know what you're on about.

So seriously, stop crying when you get killed by a Mesmer 1v1. It's not imba, you just need to learn to play. More importantly, come to the realization that 1v1 simply does not matter.

Edited by The Shadow, 02 June 2013 - 11:45 PM.


#26 Kattar

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 11:46 PM

Tying your opinion to a brick and throwing it through the forum window isn't really the best way to start a discussion. If you're like to reword this thread and recreate it, please PM me.

You are fooling yourself, user. Nothing here is what it seems. ANet is not the plucky hero, Guru is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena.



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