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the end of Southsun: instance and Karka Queen


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#1 Mordakai

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 02:46 PM

So, despite a sad excuse for a "dungeon", Southsun actually ended on a high point for me.

Loved the little instance where you escort the Dolyak.  I would love to see more instances like this that further the story.

Capturing the settlements to spawn the Queen was also fun.  As usual, it was harder to spawn her than to actually defeat her, but that's another topic.

Biggest complaint:  merchant items for holding 4 camps are not worth the effort or money.  They needed to be new skins or a lot cheaper.  The fact they can't be salvaged or mystic forged is also annoying.


But, this is permanent content, which is good.  All in all, a good end to a rather lackluster Living Story.  A better permanent dungeon, and it would have been great.

Edited by Mordakai, 05 June 2013 - 02:47 PM.


#2 Kumori Tensei

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 02:49 PM

Southsun is not over yet...it will end the 11th I thought...

#3 Mordakai

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 02:51 PM

But this is the last update.

In a way, it will never end, because the Karka Queen is permanent.

Should have titled this "last update to Southsun",  oh well.

#4 Cures

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:00 PM

seems i missed the "little instance where you escort a dolyak". where/when was that pls?

#5 Mordakai

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:08 PM

View PostCures, on 05 June 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

seems i missed the "little instance where you escort a dolyak". where/when was that pls?

Talk to inspector Ellen Kiel at Pearl Islet.

#6 Senatic

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:13 PM

I'm so happy we're finally getting another holiday event, Halloween/Christmas was 100 times better then all the living story updates put together, hell Halloween alone had more valuable content then the living story has had in total so far.

At this point, anything but this living story crap will make me happy.

OT: In and of themselves I see little wrong with the story instances (Don't call them dungeons, cus they're not), besides being too easy and not having a lot of depth in terms of mechanics, the problem is when looking at it as a whole. If these were the final missions in a longer road of small instanced story missions I would have been more okay with them, but they're not. They're directly following content that took less then 20min to play through and are themselves about that length.

I'm sorry but 20min of playtime twice a month just doesn't do it for me. I'd rather they don't bother at all and just put that effort into making something meaningful further down the line. Hell take 5 months off and give us a bunch of new fractals. Or a new zone. W/e, anything that doesn't take 20min to complete.

Edited by Senatic, 05 June 2013 - 03:22 PM.


#7 Kumori Tensei

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:32 PM

View PostSenatic, on 05 June 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

I'm so happy we're finally getting another holiday event, Halloween/Christmas was 100 times better then all the living story updates put together, hell Halloween alone had more valuable content then the living story has had in total so far.

At this point, anything but this living story crap will make me happy.

OT: In and of themselves I see little wrong with the story instances (Don't call them dungeons, cus they're not), besides being too easy and not having a lot of depth in terms of mechanics, the problem is when looking at it as a whole. If these were the final missions in a longer road of small instanced story missions I would have been more okay with them, but they're not. They're directly following content that took less then 20min to play through and are themselves about that length.

I'm sorry but 20min of playtime twice a month just doesn't do it for me. I'd rather they don't bother at all and just put that effort into making something meaningful further down the line. Hell take 5 months off and give us a bunch of new fractals. Or a new zone. W/e, anything that doesn't take 20min to complete.

Honestly, the Dungeon they added before this one, the Molten Facility, was amazing. it even felt like a dungeon, and rewarded nicely. Halloween was amazing and was worth so much more than the living story for sure, that alone was. And I hope this Dragon Festival does the same.

As to the end, you're right it was the last patch, but you can still get the achievements and back pieces and such all the way up to the 11th, but after that you cannot anymore. Only some events (such as queen) will remain. I was terrified when you said end lol. i thought I missed out on the last 2 achievements I gotta do.

#8 Senatic

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:40 PM

View PostKumori Tensei, on 05 June 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Honestly, the Dungeon they added before this one, the Molten Facility, was amazing.

This is true, it is one of the few parts of the living story I actually enjoyed. The boss fight was fun and engaging.

#9 matsif

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:57 PM

the entirety of the southsun portion of the living story has been abysmal.  ugly back pieces with horrible stats (flower was ok, but the sclerite shell was horrendous), bad weapon skins, bad mini dungeon, boring world event with another autoattack and win for welfare rares to cap it off.  and a lame mini-game too.  I had every achievement on the island outside of crab toss in about 20 minutes of play time, and that was playing solo and only looking at a guide once (to find the last sample).

I was extremely disappointed by the karka queen.  No size difference or special looks from the vet karkas, no double health bar like the vet/champ karkas, and only 2 rares and 2 other items and some karka shells for loot.  Only thing that made it exciting were the tons of adds that showed up, and even then they can be ignored for the most part.  

Molten Facility was fun, and the solo instances were, although nothing special, decent.  The Canach/NULL "dungeon" (hesitant to even call it that...more like walking a dog to fire hydrants to pee on than anything) was in comparison absolutely horrible.

If this is truly the end of this "living story" arc, then anet lost a chance to tie it in to something special.  There was chances to tie this story in to 2 other elder dragons, and they did neither.

#10 Desild

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:43 PM

Cannach was cute, but I was expecting more out of a "dungeon". I saw a Developer moaning about it, since it wasn't clearly a "dungeon". More of a very small instanced area with a boss in it.

Pity I missed Molten Facility then, because on my current standard of comparison, every single bit of the Living Story has been sub-par.

Except the Skelk farm, that thing was awesome. Until they nerfed it.

Edited by Desild, 05 June 2013 - 05:43 PM.


#11 Arewn

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:06 PM

View Postmatsif, on 05 June 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

the entirety of the southsun portion of the living story has been abysmal.  ugly back pieces with horrible stats (flower was ok, but the sclerite shell was horrendous), bad weapon skins, bad mini dungeon, boring world event with another autoattack and win for welfare rares to cap it off.  and a lame mini-game too.  I had every achievement on the island outside of crab toss in about 20 minutes of play time, and that was playing solo and only looking at a guide once (to find the last sample).

I was extremely disappointed by the karka queen.  No size difference or special looks from the vet karkas, no double health bar like the vet/champ karkas, and only 2 rares and 2 other items and some karka shells for loot.  Only thing that made it exciting were the tons of adds that showed up, and even then they can be ignored for the most part.  

Molten Facility was fun, and the solo instances were, although nothing special, decent.  The Canach/NULL "dungeon" (hesitant to even call it that...more like walking a dog to fire hydrants to pee on than anything) was in comparison absolutely horrible.

If this is truly the end of this "living story" arc, then anet lost a chance to tie it in to something special.  There was chances to tie this story in to 2 other elder dragons, and they did neither.
Qualitatively, the back pieces, pet and weapons were good, your personal distaste of the style is irrelevant in a critique of the event. The world boss Karka Queen is in the same vein as all the world bosses, it could have used some more interesting mechanics  (individual targeting for each leg to cripple it or something?) but all in all design for something that could be fighting anywhere between 10 and 50 people is going to be limited, and the lead up event was good. I agree they should have given it a unique model or something though.

It only took you 20 mins to finish the achievement, but had it taken longer the complain would instead be "OMG gw2 is so grindy". Look around the market, the alternative was that you do a daily 10 times to get the achievement, or you grind 500 of something to get it, anything else takes development time (which is limited).
Canach was pretty garbage, the little "don't get hit" challenge for an achievement was good and fine, but I would have expected a bigger chunk of story for something like that. I haven't done the Null 5 man yet so Idk about it.
They did tie it in to the dragon festival, which will in turn likely tie into what ever comes next. The Karka are not minions of the DSD though, and their recent disturbance on SSC was caused by Canach, so while they could have taken a different direction to make this about an Elder Dragon, there wasn't much of a tie to be had otherwise.

#12 Dahk

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:21 PM

While there are a number of reasons the Living Story stuff hasn't interested me much so far, I think the biggest issue I have is that it feels like ANet put in a ton of work and effort into something with little to no lasting impact.  I mean, this is supposed to be their way of providing additional content without releasing an expansion, but I kinda miss not having a new playable race, new profession, new dungeons, or new skills.

I appreciate that we didn't just get a release of something that we have to farm over and over, but I think it would have been cool if the Molten Alliance dungeon stayed permanently.  It was a really fun dungeon, but I only got a single play through before it was gone (busy rl schedule at the time).

However, I also just really didn't find this story or the aesthetics of the new content that interesting and that may be part of my bias.

#13 Soki

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:35 PM

View PostArewn, on 05 June 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

Qualitatively, the back pieces, pet and weapons were good, your personal distaste of the style is irrelevant in a critique of the event. The world boss Karka Queen is in the same vein as all the world bosses, it could have used some more interesting mechanics  (individual targeting for each leg to cripple it or something?) but all in all design for something that could be fighting anywhere between 10 and 50 people is going to be limited, and the lead up event was good. I agree they should have given it a unique model or something though.

It only took you 20 mins to finish the achievement, but had it taken longer the complain would instead be "OMG gw2 is so grindy". Look around the market, the alternative was that you do a daily 10 times to get the achievement, or you grind 500 of something to get it, anything else takes development time (which is limited).
Canach was pretty garbage, the little "don't get hit" challenge for an achievement was good and fine, but I would have expected a bigger chunk of story for something like that. I haven't done the Null 5 man yet so Idk about it.
They did tie it in to the dragon festival, which will in turn likely tie into what ever comes next. The Karka are not minions of the DSD though, and their recent disturbance on SSC was caused by Canach, so while they could have taken a different direction to make this about an Elder Dragon, there wasn't much of a tie to be had otherwise.
I think the main reason people say that GW2 is grindy is because it's grindy.
Moreover; it's grindy and there's really not much else to it.
Everything is incredibly simple and streamlined - and content that lasts for a temporary period is, effectively, wasted dev time in the long run.

Maybe if they were putting out new permanent content as well as the living story it'd be better - or perhaps if the game weren't entirely centered around gold acquisition, after you hit 80..
Or, perhaps, if the PVE were designed a bit better; rather than the buggy, flowless, simple mess it is.

Maybe then, people wouldn't just say "Grindy" when they mention GW2.


If the Living Story events had something like "Points of Recollection" scattered throughout the world, where you could interact with it with a group or solo and put yourself in an instanced area of the map with the Living Story culmination, then yeah, they'd be worthwhile.
But that would defeat the purpose of the Living Story: To make a small window where something in the gemstore is "LIMITED TIME ONLY BUY NOW!" to get people to come back, play for 2 hours, finish the event, and buy the gemstore thing.

Edited by Soki, 05 June 2013 - 06:38 PM.


#14 Mordakai

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:13 PM

So, to expand on this topic a bit:

What I would like to see in future updates: (including Living Story)

1.  Permanent content like new Dungeons and Events.

2.  A way to earn new weapon skins besides RNG. (Tokens seem an obvious solution).

3.  New armor


It would also be smart to make town clothes usable in combat, (maybe exempt PvP if this is an issue).

#15 Kumori Tensei

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:49 PM

View PostMordakai, on 05 June 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

So, to expand on this topic a bit:

What I would like to see in future updates: (including Living Story)

1.  Permanent content like new Dungeons and Events.

2.  A way to earn new weapon skins besides RNG. (Tokens seem an obvious solution).

3.  New armor


It would also be smart to make town clothes usable in combat, (maybe exempt PvP if this is an issue).

YES! #2 and #3 for me would keep me for a while longer untill harder content like #1 comes out. 90% if not more of Leather Armor is just horrendous, absolutely ugly and unfitting. Please new armors. GW1 had a plethora of awesome armors, and oh, let's not talk about weapon skins for fear I will not be able to restrain myself hehe.

Wearing town clothes in combat would make me buy some of the Gem Items honestly, I am all up for that.

#16 davadude

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostMordakai, on 05 June 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

So, to expand on this topic a bit:

What I would like to see in future updates: (including Living Story)

1.  Permanent content like new Dungeons and Events.

2.  A way to earn new weapon skins besides RNG. (Tokens seem an obvious solution).

3.  New armor


It would also be smart to make town clothes usable in combat, (maybe exempt PvP if this is an issue).

I'll continue with you:

4. Implementation of Southsun Cove into the world completion meter.

5. New Zones

6. New PvP game modes

7. New PvP maps

8. Removal of Culling in PvE.
Davadude - Guru Village Idiot

#17 Arewn

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:34 PM

View PostSoki, on 05 June 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

I think the main reason people say that GW2 is grindy is because it's grindy.
Moreover; it's grindy and there's really not much else to it.
Everything is incredibly simple and streamlined - and content that lasts for a temporary period is, effectively, wasted dev time in the long run.

Maybe if they were putting out new permanent content as well as the living story it'd be better - or perhaps if the game weren't entirely centered around gold acquisition, after you hit 80..
Or, perhaps, if the PVE were designed a bit better; rather than the buggy, flowless, simple mess it is.

Maybe then, people wouldn't just say "Grindy" when they mention GW2.


If the Living Story events had something like "Points of Recollection" scattered throughout the world, where you could interact with it with a group or solo and put yourself in an instanced area of the map with the Living Story culmination, then yeah, they'd be worthwhile.
But that would defeat the purpose of the Living Story: To make a small window where something in the gemstore is "LIMITED TIME ONLY BUY NOW!" to get people to come back, play for 2 hours, finish the event, and buy the gemstore thing.
I agree the overly streamlined way much of the content is set up makes it grindy. Instead of being engaged by the content, you find yourself simply going through the motions at times.
I really don't care for many of the alternatives though, the idea of going with the mainstream 'WoW style'  of making it a daily to artificially increase the amount content is particularly appalling to me. If I didn't find it fun and engaging  the first round, making me redo it every day for 2 weeks isn't going to change that (well I guess it does, it indoctrinates you into the system so that you stick around to pay your monthly dues, same as their raid system). They could also try making it hard but... making the open world/community content hard isn't exactly the point of an MMO's accessible content. The state of the open world/living story content would be good if they had solid dungeon experiences beside it. I liked what they did with the F&F dungeon, but even that could have used a "story" and "Hard" mode to it, they really need to work on a proper dungeon meta in general.

I completely agree with the idea of a 'points of recollection' system, in fact I though that was what they were doing in the first place when I saw the living story instances in F&F. It should be a continuation of the living story with it's own tab in your hero panel 'journal' thing, with enough story instances to be comprehensive on it's own for those who do it later (after the associated event is done and gone). The current state of open world/living story would be good if, along side it, they increased focus on the instanced story bits (and give us the option to party for them... don't know what the hell was up with that for SSC), and over all increase the difficulty and encounter design for dungeons.

#18 Guardian of the Light

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:46 PM

The meta-chain of defending the settlements and the queen fight was alright and I like how it's permanment. The Queen is much harder when the player goes below crazy zerg levels (On IoJ we had trouble killing her late at night with around 15 people) so I imagine it'll be a much more fun fight when the zergs die down even if a lot of her mechanics are just vertern karka attacks (which ARE interesting) and some silly egg throwing mechanic.

I disliked both the boss instances though. I wasn't expecting too much from 1 month of development but the marketing guy who labeled it as a dungeon should get slapped. Canach was a really stupidly easy boss instance even with the bonus achievement, I mean there's making a boss "assessable" and there making them almost unfailable. Null was alright and much better but I don't like the challenge of his boss fight basically coming down to DPS race at the end.


Overall I feel it left southsun with some reason to come back but the event could have benefited from more development time which was the same problem flame and frost had although me and everyone else are crying out for that awesome dungeon to be made permanent.

It almost feels like someone wished on the monkey's paw that Anet would develop content faster. There's a good reason why they choose the "when it's ready" policy in the past.

#19 Mexay

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

You know what I want?

Quest lines. They don't even have to be super rewarding. Just, go to an NPC that has something interesting to say and he sends you on a quest to go do something.


I think this is something Anet kind of missed. Quests are GOOD. Quests in the first 5 - 15 levels are aweful. Guild Wars 1 had some amazing quest lines. They were fun and interesting. What happened? Quests aren't bad. Just make them totally optional with some interesting story content and maybe a unique looking skin.

#20 Arewn

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:28 PM

View PostMexay, on 06 June 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

You know what I want?

Quest lines. They don't even have to be super rewarding. Just, go to an NPC that has something interesting to say and he sends you on a quest to go do something.


I think this is something Anet kind of missed. Quests are GOOD. Quests in the first 5 - 15 levels are aweful. Guild Wars 1 had some amazing quest lines. They were fun and interesting. What happened? Quests aren't bad. Just make them totally optional with some interesting story content and maybe a unique looking skin.
I think they should add some quest lines too. Dynamic events, so far as I'm concerned, are certainly much better as the core PVE leveling system/'thing', but quests would compliment the system very nicely. I've always found quests to be sub-par story telling devices the way they're construed in MMORPGs, but sometimes they're just the best way to do it.
They would help get some more personal interaction going between the player and NPCs in the world (and in major cities in particular) without having to make a full blown personal story instance. They are also much cheaper and easier to make since it's just a text box with some options/rewards, and they don't require voice acting.

#21 pumpkin pie

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:40 PM

View PostMordakai, on 05 June 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

So, despite a sad excuse for a "dungeon", Southsun actually ended on a high point for me.

Loved the little instance where you escort the Dolyak.  I would love to see more instances like this that further the story.

Capturing the settlements to spawn the Queen was also fun.  As usual, it was harder to spawn her than to actually defeat her, but that's another topic.

Biggest complaint:  merchant items for holding 4 camps are not worth the effort or money.  They needed to be new skins or a lot cheaper.  The fact they can't be salvaged or mystic forged is also annoying.


But, this is permanent content, which is good.  All in all, a good end to a rather lackluster Living Story.  A better permanent dungeon, and it would have been great.

I feel exactly the same regarding the Southsun Cove (SSC) living story and you are absolutely correct, I was thinking we need to be able to attack the Queen's lair.

And I hope this dungeon isn't like the "usual dungeons" I was thinking that when players are trying to take control of the 4 points in SSC, that they would be teleported into the dungeon instance and it is not a matter of 5 players, it would be like any dynamic event.

Sometime the queen will attack SSC, sometime players get transfer into the dungeon. meaning that this dungeon is only available to players who actually participated in the SSC Group/Dynamic Events. and its once per day.

I also hope that all low level players visiting SSC will be automatically up level permanently.

#22 NerfHerder

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 05:51 AM

I know what Anet was trying to do, but alot of the implementation was wonky.

I liked going straight to the boss as part of the story mode "dungeon". As a casual player I dont always want a full dungeon, I want the story. The explorable mode should have been longer. Then there are the mechanics. I know we have been asking for more than just vanilla boss encounters, but I dont think anyone wanted what we got. We want to use more of our utility, strategy, and tactics. If anything the dps requirement at the end of null was really unfair to pugs, and reinforced the current zerker or gtfo meta. I grabbed random pugs my first time out(didnt pay attention to professions) and got a team full of rangers and necros. It did not end on a happy note, pets and mines dont play well.

I'm happy with the new meta event, but it has some kinks. The pre event scales poorly with small groups. Early in the morning its difficult to hold the settlements with under a dozen players on the map. Some days, I just feel like going around and doing meta events. So the more of these the better.

Instigator events, lots of loot on a fast respawn. The dynamic leveling made it a good place to level toons that still needed it. And it gave us something different to do for a while. Sure it was the same old zerg on champion fight, but in small doses its fun. I would like more of these in future living world encounters. I had alot of playtime there this past week.

I guess I have different needs and more optimism than the average. To me, living story is getting better and it appears they are listening to us. Lost Shores was one step forward, two steps back. Secret of Southsun was two steps forward, one step back. But the living story does put us into under used areas, gives me something new to do, and I can't wait to see where it takes us next.

#23 Specialz

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 08:47 PM

For me one of my biggest issues with this game is the fact that they have too many racist and as a result the armor variety suffers. I wish it was like gw1 where, we had a plethora of different armors. Even though, I do understand that each armor in gw2 has to be modeled 192+, as compared to 19 for weapons and even less for when compared to gw1, if they were not planning on going all out, they shouldn't have gone with 5 races.

Seriously, this game needs armor. I hate weapons they are boring.

#24 Brunella

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:52 AM

View Postdavadude, on 05 June 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

I'll continue with you:

4. Implementation of Southsun Cove into the world completion meter.

5. New Zones

6. New PvP game modes

7. New PvP maps

8. Removal of Culling in PvE.
So you like PvP a lot!
What about the players who only like PvE why should they be obliged to go in PvP maps to complete the exploration and now u wish tho include the Southsun cove too?
Ho well Aion 4.0 is around the corner for me ....Enjoy your PvP and have fun! :)

#25 Mister Stygian

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:20 AM

I was hoping the map would change at end of the living story to a typical map with hearts and vistas that gives you an explorer chest with completion.  If it stays as it is now, all it will be is a place to farm materials and have waypoints that are always contested and a meta event that never spawns.

#26 StormDragonZ

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:30 AM

I'd still like to see scavenger hunts where you have to collect a bunch of random items to earn credits toward a whole variety of things that are uncommon or rare in other situations.

Basically, more ways to earn difficult than usual things so you don't have to do one single meaningless task to acquire enough of something.

I think I made sense...

#27 davadude

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 07:43 AM

View PostBrunella, on 09 June 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

So you like PvP a lot!
What about the players who only like PvE why should they be obliged to go in PvP maps to complete the exploration and now u wish tho include the Southsun cove too?
Ho well Aion 4.0 is around the corner for me ....Enjoy your PvP and have fun! :)

You made little to no sense...

...and you're dead wrong.  In fact, I have less than 5 experience points/glory in PvP.  I rarely, if ever, play.  But we've now had 7 subsequent WvW and PvE updates, and it's about time PvP was expanded to bring that part of the game up to par.  And in what part did I say that players must do PvP maps to get world completion?  You don't...

Not to mention, Southsun cove is a PvE map... it deserves to be part of the world completion.  You know... PvE = world completion?  Still with me?
Davadude - Guru Village Idiot

#28 beadnbutter32

beadnbutter32

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:30 AM

It will end, most certainly, the second the free MF boosts go away.  The zone will be completely devoid of players, as once again there is really no reason to go there.

No map completion, no hearts, just event chains that don't really scale down very well.  Woe to you if you wander into the Steampipe fort trying to get to the queen.  Nothing like getting swarmed by Veterans.

Sounds like Orr Temples all over, except there are no desirable goodies to be had.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 09 June 2013 - 11:46 AM.


#29 Brunella

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:10 PM

View Postdavadude, on 09 June 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

You made little to no sense...

...and you're dead wrong.  In fact, I have less than 5 experience points/glory in PvP.  I rarely, if ever, play.  But we've now had 7 subsequent WvW and PvE updates, and it's about time PvP was expanded to bring that part of the game up to par.  And in what part did I say that players must do PvP maps to get world completion?  You don't...

Not to mention, Southsun cove is a PvE map... it deserves to be part of the world completion.  You know... PvE = world completion?  Still with me?

I'm sorry I must have not understood what you meant, I beg your pardon then. :)




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