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I miss the Gear Treadmill

gear treadmill raiding raid endgame rewards dress-up fashion show

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#31 Craywulf

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:06 PM

One of the things I think ArenaNet failed to do in terms of talent tree progression is that they did not region-lock the skill tree advancement like they did in GW1. For those that don't know, elite skills were obtained from select champions in various zones, so if there was a elite skill you wanted, you needed to go to that particular zone and kill that champion and then use a skill on the corpse to "capture" the elite. It was like scavenging hunt going from zone to zone looking for your profession's elites. GW1 also had unique skill vendors, which made it necessary to seek them out to acquire profession-based skills. This procession is what made GW1's horizontal progression so vital.

In GW2, you seek out skill point challenges, which is like "capping" champions or shopping at skill vendor. Unfortunately the skills themselves are not region-oriented so it makes no difference where you go to get skill points. While I understand why they simplified it, to make it more accessible. But in doing so they have deflated the personal progression.
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#32 Doug4130

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:58 PM

A lot.

Hell, warriors were running around with Mending. That pretty much proves that the limits for builds were near endless.


notice how I said viable. Between traits and utilities in GW2 you can make a bunch of builds that work as well as those types of builds worked in GW1. And that's great because lots of people like doing that. Buildcrafting in GW1 was fun because of the sheer amount of combinations available, but it was also daunting to new players and resulted in lots of near useless skills and under par builds. It was very easy to play an uneffective character without realizing it. Building in GW2 is more subtle but it's noticeable, and there are lots of ways to play any class.

Craywolf has a good point. Hopefully they release more ways to horizontally progress your character; more skills would be a welcome addition, but it's tough to do these things and keep it accessible enough to every player while satisfying the people that will consume it as fast as humanly possible
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#33 Arquenya

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:52 PM

notice how I said viable. Between traits and utilities in GW2 you can make a bunch of builds that work as well as those types of builds worked in GW1. And that's great because lots of people like doing that. Buildcrafting in GW1 was fun because of the sheer amount of combinations available, but it was also daunting to new players and resulted in lots of near useless skills and under par builds. It was very easy to play an uneffective character without realizing it. Building in GW2 is more subtle but it's noticeable, and there are lots of ways to play any class.

"Viable"? It depends on how you look at it. In a way every build was viable in GW: Prophecies. My guild did every single mission + bonus and FoW with just a team of mesmers with a lot of strange skill sets. Teamwork, patience and individual skill were far, far more important than your gear or "best skillset". Which only changed after a few expansions and extremely demanding dungeons. Compared to GW2 where there's no demand for patience or pulling groups and you can just rush through almost all of the content without any communication. I honestly don't find it an improvement.

During my FoW runs with my mesmer I must have played many dozens of builds. And yes, hunting elite skills to try out new builds was really good fun and I really miss it in GW2. As I miss being able to play with any weapon setup I want, I still find greatsword mesmers silly, especially with the ridiculous animation and facial gesture.

And well, there isn't a lot that compares to the distinctive style of FoW sets. Most legendaries look .. rather underwhelming. Amidst all the other grotesque neon bulb weapons i don't even recognize them as such.
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#34 sanctuaire

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 12:12 AM

hehe i remember those all mesmer group conquests back in gw. would run anywhere from IW,
ESurge, phys interrupt Inept, panic, VoR... good times XD they just seem so different from the clone-tastic one right now.

.......

one of the reasons why gw1 succeeded for so long with its niche target market was because
of the horizontal progression.. you grind for looks rather than stats. you can leave the game for
a while, knowing you can always come back with your character still as powerful stat-wise
when you return, you won't get left behind.

same with pvp. gw was sought after by its audience since its more like chess... even if you are
a 'beginner', you would be on equal terms with your opponent gear and stat wise, unlike other
mmos at that time where it was not necessarily the most skilled who has an advantage ... rather
the one with the most free time to grind for higher equips.

........

gw2 had a bit of identity crisis in this regard. the people who preferred gw1's horizontal progression
can be still marked as a smaller specific market. anet wanted to cater to more people;
and design concessions were made... alienating some of their loyal fanbase from gw1, yet not going
full tilt on vertical progression mmo's that the other type of fans wanted.

.
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#35 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 12:47 AM

What might be nice is if these myriad of weapon skins didn't disappear after a month. Maybe after an event ends, they remove the RNG drop of skins, but introduce an expensive recipe (crafting or forge) that let people grind for it. That way people who want to try their luck on the RNG drop during the event, can do so and maybe get lucky. But people who don't have the time or money to do that, can still work toward it AFTER the event over a longer period of time.

And although people would complain, they could even add a new (not TOO expensive) gem store item used to craft them. E.g. adding a jade stone next month used to craft jade weapon skins. If they keep the cost reasonable, I think people would buy them. And as new skins are introduced in new events, it garners new interest, and new options for horizontal progression.

Seriously, ANet....still waiting for that job offer. XD
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#36 Desild

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:40 PM

And although people would complain, they could even add a new (not TOO expensive) gem store item used to craft them. E.g. adding a jade stone next month used to craft jade weapon skins. If they keep the cost reasonable, I think people would buy them. And as new skins are introduced in new events, it garners new interest, and new options for horizontal progression.


Yes, that I would like. Like a Fused Core and a Sclerite Plate. Some sort of item available in the Gem Store that I could get at any time and use it to craft the weapon I want.

Even if the crafting requirements were stupid, I at least would have an option to circumvent the RNG and the Cox Boxes. Which I don't right now.
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