Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
- - - - -

Make Guild Wars 2 more like World of Warcraft

fanboy

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
17 replies to this topic

#1 Kaaboose

Kaaboose

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 159 posts
  • Location:Probably Tyria
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[BAM]
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:40 AM

Whoa there White Knight! Take a moment to read this paragraph before jumping to a conclusion on what this thread is really about!
Guild Wars 2 is already like WoW in many ways, and unfortunatley in some cases in the worst ways possible. Are you 100% happy with the current state and direction of Guild Wars 2? Would you be happy if it stayed the way it was with the same sort of shallow temporary content we are currently reciving? If you are then i won't waste your time by asking you to read any more of this post as its points will be irrelevant to you. However, if there are some parts of GW2 that you feel could use some improvement, from the mechanics all the way to the type of new content and how it is delivered then I ask you to read to the end of this wall of text before you finish your comment (or check the TL:DR section below). And if that's too hard and you're typing your generic fanboy reply at this point then at least you pulled your head out of Anets arse long enough to post another useless comment about how great and perfect they are... In a certian manner of speaking.

Now that I've got that out of the way let's get down to business. I've comapred Guild Wars 2 to many games in the past, usually as an example of how the game I'm comparing it to has made a certian feature/idea work and naturally I bring up WoW from time to time because, like it or not, there are many things WoW has done RIGHT over the years that GW2 could benifit from emulating.
"But you can't compare WoW to GW2! It's been around for so much longer!" you say? Okay, for arguments sake let's compare the first 10 months of WoW to the first 10 months of GW2 so I can better explain my point (Skip itallics if you don't care!)

For the first 3 months of WoW's lifespan it was simply squishing bugs for the most part, While GW2 worked on bugs, tweaked skills, put in a holiday event, a new zone, a one time world event, balanced a few world bosses and introduced the "Factals of the Mists." GW2 was certinly boasting more content in the first 3 months that's for sure!

On month 4 WoW started realesing new content with it's Christmas event, a new dungeon, A world PvP arena and more bug fixing. GW2 also relased a Christmas event along with the breakout system to WvW, more skill tweaking and more bug fixing.

Month 5 saw WoW realse another new dungeon, world bosses and its meeting stone LFG system along with Bug Fixing. GW2 also worked on bugs as well as polishing its fractal system, introducing the prelude to the Flame and Frost living story, adding the laurels daily system, removing the ability to Graveyard Zerg dungeon bosses, implimenting the guesting system and some more skill tweaking.

Month 6 say WoW introduce its PvP honour system, some epic quests for hunters and priests and some more bug fixing. GW2 continued with the living story, implimented an item preview system, a guild rewards system and more bug fixing.

Month 7 saw WoW's Bttlegrounds introduced and yet more bug fixing. GW2 began the next step of its Living Story, more bug fixing and skill tweaking and the introduction of items only avalible via gems and its controvertial RNG rewards system.

During month 8 WoW relased its 2nd raid: Blackwing Lair, Battlemasters for its battleground system and began the first of its talent tree revamps. GW2 introduced the final part of the Flame and Frost living story along with the usual bug and skill tweaks.

Month 9 was quiet for WoW with just a few bug fixes while GW2 began a new Living Story on Southsun.

And in month 10 WoW brought out its first 20 man raid: Zul'gurub, The Arathi Basic Battleground, Some more talent tree revamps and its weekly fishing event. While GW2 brought out the Dragon Bash festival.

As we can see both WoW and GW2 focused heavily on fixing the bugs in their game, though GW2 continued to release new content almost right after relase while WoW took 4 months until they relased anything new. Anet was sure blowing WoW out of the water in the early months in terms of quantity of content, no questions asked. However after that GW2 seems to steer away from permanent content in favor of temporary, especially where PvP is concerned. A new player coming into WoW 10 months in would have only missed out on the christmas event, while a new GW2 player, or a player returning from an absence since realse would have missed out on Halloween, Christmas, the 4 parts of the Flame and Frost living story, the new living story and a one time world event. All they have access to that wasn't avalible on release is a less buggy and better polished game, a few PvP maps, Fractals and one new zone.

IMO GW2 should keep emulating WoW in reguards to bug fixing and stop focusing on temporary content. Put in some perment content instead. WoW continued adding content regularly for the first year of its life with very few temporary events, and those were always a neat distraction rather than the bulk of their content. This is the sort of thing I'm refering to when I say "Make Guild Wars 2 more lie World of Warcraft." Especially when I bring up things WoW did later in its lifespan.

Another way I feel GW2 could stand to be a lot more like WoW is its achivements. WoW did not introduce achivements for years while GW2 put them up on realse so kudos to them for that. However there's a pattern with achivements popping up more and more in GW2, they require little to no effort, just time. Dontain hit the nail on the head in his last GW2 video when he said "GW2 achivements are not achivementsm they are TASKS." Look at the list of achivements for Draons bash! 4 of them can be compelted while AFK! And eat X amounts of candy? Bash X amount of Pinatas? I can't speak for everybody but I don't find this crap compelling at all. It feels like a chore. Be a good little boy and do your achivements/tasks and you can have some shiny new dragon wings! Event the collect X item quests in WoW temporary events required exploring the world to obtain them.

On the topic of challenging achivements lets look at WoW's party dynamics Vs. GW2's. WoW requires a party working together to complete dungeon and raid content while GW2 does not. WoW's party dynamics and combat has at least some depth to them while I find HW2 combat, outside of PvP anyway, a Very shallow and Very solo affair. I'm curious, are there any encounters in GW2 that haven't been done solo? I've gone over this before but GW2 needs to fix its trinity and encounters to encourage team play. It also needs combat that requires more then "stand behind the refelct wall and spam as much damage as you can!"

Are we so scared of GW2 becoming a WoW clone that we forbid it from emulating the things WoW gets right? Don't worry! I'm no biased! Let's go over some of the things WoW and GW2 do WRONG.

WoW has a habbit of forcing players to grind the same content over and over to reach the next 'tier' of content. "GW2 Doesn't do that! It doesn't have a gear treadmill!" you say? What's the most challenging, and I use that word liberally, PvE content in GW2? Fractals. And how does one get to the challenging content in fractals? By running it over and over and over. At least in WoW the gear treadmill was a crutch that could be negated to a degree. The GW2 fractals grind is more akin to Diablo 3's difficulty grind then WoW's. Why can't these games simply use the challenge these encounters provide as the wall to this content? A skill cap is far more fair then a grind.

NOW, let's go over the big one. The absolute worst thing GW2 has in common with WoW. Know what that is? Dumbing down the content to make it more accessable. You can spin it any way you want. yes easily accessable content is great for a game. But the thing about easy content is that it only hold a players interest for the short term. If you forsake players looking for something a bit more challenging then cow-clicking style content you forsake any long term apleal your game might have. Ask any Vet WoW player why they quit the game during CATA or MoP and they'll all tell you the same thing: "Becasue the game got too easy."
And once a game becomes too easy and puts a grind before challenge, it starts feeling like a task. Not an achivement, a task. And that's the problem right there.
I've stated this before. I'm not saying get rid of the easy content but you have to put something in your game that provides a little challnege to keep players interested and stimulated.

Now if you're a fanboi that has actually read this far then Kudos to you! And allow me to appologise for pulling the old bait and switch with the thread title. It should have been called "Make GW2 More AND Less like WoW." Bait and Switches aren't always a bad thing though! Bayonetta and Spec Ops: The Line did this and who was complaining about that? If you want to complain about a bait n switch go rewatc Anets manifesto and tell me how many of their promises they've come good on there. The whole reason I chose that title to get the fanbois here to read this ws so that the next time someone mentions a feature from WoW or any other game that might improve GW2, instead of imediatly dissmissing it they might stop and actaully consider if the feature would work in GW2 without breaking any of Anets design goals.

Oh and speaking of Desing goals Anet needs to get back to theirs, or annouce some new ones. My good faith in them finishing their manifesto goals is now offically shot and they'll not be getting another dime from me.

TL:DR
Video and Audio form here: http://www.guildwars...ld-of-warcraft/
  • GW2 and WoW already share many similarities, both good and bad. Anet should be emulating the good things that don’t interfere with its goals while dropping the bad stuff.
  • I compare the first 10 months of WoW to the first 10 months of GW2 for thoese that break out the “You can’t compare the two because WoW is older” arguement
  • Some things Anet could take from WoW are Clearer Patch Notes, Risk Vs. Reward, Content for long term players, Public Test Realms and More Permenent content.
  • Some things GW2 should stop doing that Wow does is Enforcing a Grind/Timesink for challenging content and Dumbing down their game for the casual playerbase.


#2 StormDragonZ

StormDragonZ

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 396 posts
  • Location:Syracuse
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Guild Tag:[MAGI]
  • Server:Northern Shiverpeaks

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:23 AM

Comparing Guild Wars 2 to World of Warcraft is like comparing your last attempt at a thread to this thread.

Didn't learn your lesson the first time, did you?

Eggs still do suck.

#3 cospaok

cospaok

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 50 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:39 AM

Have you paid for a GW2 10-year subscription up front? If not, let us play the game we bought and go play WoW. No need to waste your time trying to make GW2 into WoW.

#4 Desild

Desild

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 985 posts
  • Location:New Eden
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[DKAL]
  • Server:Piken Square

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:44 AM

People in Guru are so rabid about WoW. The mere mention of the name and they automatically forget the problems Guild Wars 2 has.

While I don't believe Kaaboose is tackling this issue the right way, there's some valid reasoning to what he is saying. Guild Wars 2 could benefit from taking the best things out of WoW, as WoW did to Everquest, and refine them.

Like the complete lack of a Cash Shop driven game with prestige items being set up behind Cox Box shaped walls for example!

Edited by Desild, 21 June 2013 - 02:45 AM.


#5 matsif

matsif

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1516 posts
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:52 AM

-increase player rewards so that we're not forced to grind CoF1 or buy gems to be able to make any prestige items in a reasonable amount of time.
-make permanent content instead of this temporary garbage that takes 20 minutes to finish
-redo old content to make it fun instead of the same old crap we've seen since release or a knocklock fest that AC became
-break CoF1 so that it doesn't vastly outgain any other money making strategy in the game
-?????
-have a better game.

#6 Kaaboose

Kaaboose

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 159 posts
  • Location:Probably Tyria
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[BAM]
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:17 AM

View PostStormDragonZ, on 21 June 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

Comparing Guild Wars 2 to World of Warcraft is like comparing your last attempt at a thread to this thread.

Didn't learn your lesson the first time, did you?

Eggs still do suck.
And what lesson would that be?

View PostDesild, on 21 June 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

People in Guru are so rabid about WoW. The mere mention of the name and they automatically forget the problems Guild Wars 2 has.

While I don't believe Kaaboose is tackling this issue the right way, there's some valid reasoning to what he is saying. Guild Wars 2 could benefit from taking the best things out of WoW, as WoW did to Everquest, and refine them.

Like the complete lack of a Cash Shop driven game with prestige items being set up behind Cox Box shaped walls for example!
Actually WoW did. They had a sub fee and a cash shop. Double dipping at its finest right there.

View Postcospaok, on 21 June 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

Have you paid for a GW2 10-year subscription up front? If not, let us play the game we bought and go play WoW. No need to waste your time trying to make GW2 into WoW.
Couldn't even read the first line :D

#7 Bamein

Bamein

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 48 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas, Nevada
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Guild Tag:[SOAP]
  • Server:Sea of Sorrows

Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:42 AM

Don't be so quick to dismiss this threat because of your weird hatred for WoW, he actually makes good points. I do agree that Guild Wars 2 should polish its core elements before "testing" out new buggy or boring content.

#8 Culture Shock

Culture Shock

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1662 posts
  • Location:In Meditation

Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:11 AM

CoF1 is NOT the best or fastest way to gain gold in GW2.  It's simply gathering materials and selling them in the trading post.  Even some of the early "low level area" mats such as copper can be gathered in a very reasonable amount of time and sold for several silver.  You can run CoF 3 times and still not get something that sells for 30 - 60 silver.

If you read the release notes you will see that the games "normal" or (old content) is being tweaked as well.  It's what the developers call the "core game".  They have in fact stated that this is what they are working on rather than expansions.  Traits are being reworked to give each class more viable builds, which was announce when?   Oh that was a yesterday!

And where was WoW when ArenaNet made a game that sold 7 million copies and didn't even have a jump function?  And just even if ... even if... the founders or ArenaNet used to work at Blizzard.... "used to",,, they are doing quite well without Blizzard now aren't they?

#9 Just Horus

Just Horus

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 224 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:03 AM

View PostCulture Shock, on 21 June 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

CoF1 is NOT the best or fastest way to gain gold in GW2.  It's simply gathering materials and selling them in the trading post.  Even some of the early "low level area" mats such as copper can be gathered in a very reasonable amount of time and sold for several silver.  You can run CoF 3 times and still not get something that sells for 30 - 60 silver.

I'm being trolled right? Do you honestly believe gathering copper is comparable in gold/hour to CoF 1 farming? Maybe with *certain third party software that enables instantaneous movement* could a player hope to come close to CoF 1 and I am being generous here. Anyone who plays legit is not going to match CoF 1 with gathering.

#10 Baron von Scrufflebutt

Baron von Scrufflebutt

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3304 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:16 AM

View PostCulture Shock, on 21 June 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

And where was WoW when ArenaNet made a game that sold 7 million copies and didn't even have a jump function?  And just even if ... even if... the founders or ArenaNet used to work at Blizzard.... "used to",,, they are doing quite well without Blizzard now aren't they?

I think that's a point the OP tries to make: GW games do not need to be WoW-like. Heck, as GW1 shows, they can be VERY un-WoW-like and there seems to be a pretty decent market for such a game.
The problem is that A.Net seems to be a bit hell-bent on making it WoW-like (Or is that WoW-lite?) and as such it would probably be smart to emulate the things that work in WoW and try to avoid the things that don't.

Or, even better, they should just give us Guild Wars 2 instead of Guilds of Warcraft.

Edited by Ritualist, 21 June 2013 - 02:27 PM.


#11 Arioch

Arioch

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 400 posts
  • Server:Ring of Fire

Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:35 AM

While I do hate WoW (it is not a rabid, but rather a rational hatred of it) we don't really need it to want permanent content. I gave the living story a try and while it was nice it needs some work.

1. Recycle, use FotM and other mechanics to allow people to play former content. It was a hit in GW 1.

2. I am entirely for permanent content, otherwise all that effort goes to waste. And hopefully we can have deeper stories if they can be revisited. Story was a good part of what made GW 1 so good, let's not lose that in GW 2.

#12 Desild

Desild

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 985 posts
  • Location:New Eden
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[DKAL]
  • Server:Piken Square

Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:35 AM

View PostKaaboose, on 21 June 2013 - 03:17 AM, said:

Actually WoW did. They had a sub fee and a cash shop. Double dipping at its finest right there.

You aren't seriously comparing WoW's Cash Store, which mostly sells Mini Pets or Mounts and a few odd merchandise, with the travesty and near-P2W Gem Store of Guild Wars 2 right?

No seriously, amuse me. Because the both of them are LIGHTYEARS away in terms of difference. I could have sworn to have made pretty clear I was talking about Cox Boxes.

Sure, WoW has them too, but they aren't sold in their Cash Shop.

Edited by Desild, 21 June 2013 - 09:42 AM.


#13 Kaaboose

Kaaboose

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 159 posts
  • Location:Probably Tyria
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[BAM]
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:23 PM

View PostDesild, on 21 June 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

You aren't seriously comparing WoW's Cash Store, which mostly sells Mini Pets or Mounts and a few odd merchandise, with the travesty and near-P2W Gem Store of Guild Wars 2 right?

No seriously, amuse me. Because the both of them are LIGHTYEARS away in terms of difference. I could have sworn to have made pretty clear I was talking about Cox Boxes.

Sure, WoW has them too, but they aren't sold in their Cash Shop.
I don't understand how you can view them as uncomparable as they both exist for the same purpose: To extract more money from the player.
Considering you are already paying a monthly fee to WoW what right do they have to put content in a cash shop when they are already getting paid by each player monthly? Why not put that content in the actual game like everything else?
Now I really don't understand the P2W concept being brought up in GW2 as they offer no statisticle advantages. I DESPISE the RNG way of distrbuting content via BLC/Dragon Coffers/Southsun crates becuase these only exist to extract more money from the player. They add a gambling aspect AND a sense of urgancey since the items are also limited time. It's also a great way to disguise the shallowness of the content on offer. This is in no way benificial to anybody expect the company reciving this cash.
The comparision is obvious. Both are a greedy cash grab by the companies making money off these titles.

#14 Eon Lilu

Eon Lilu

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2295 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:18 PM

View Postmatsif, on 21 June 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

-increase player rewards so that we're not forced to grind CoF1 or buy gems to be able to make any prestige items in a reasonable amount of time.
-make permanent content instead of this temporary garbage that takes 20 minutes to finish
-redo old content to make it fun instead of the same old crap we've seen since release or a knocklock fest that AC became
-break CoF1 so that it doesn't vastly outgain any other money making strategy in the game
-?????
-have a better game.

So much this but Anet are not listening or are just taking 6 months to do anything about it, those few changes would make a huge difference...the gem store and temp content as excuse for more gambling items etc has pretty much taken over the game and future development of the game. :(

I can't really say anything about WOW I only played it for a few hours and hated it.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 21 June 2013 - 02:30 PM.


#15 rick1027

rick1027

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 71 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:01 PM

i read it although it did take a few times to reread and see where you were going . truthfully i think you have some valid point in the best of wow

make it less casual i disagree with so much of playerbase being casual. i do think anet does have to decide which group they want to assosciate with the casuals and the hardcore. they do seem to be trying to toe the line and sort of ticking of both. im more of a casual player so i wouldnt like them going the hardcore way but if they did id find another game to play.

#16 ShezuTsukai

ShezuTsukai

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 481 posts
  • Location:Coast of Nebraska
  • Profession:Thief
  • Guild Tag:[Soul]
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:25 PM

I grew up with table top, pencil/paper games so new content every month even if temporary is appreciated. Those of you that grew up with console games have a very different idea of "replay ability".

Quite frankly the idea of a game master saying the story is over start again with a different character if you want is laughable. I applaud Anet for following the old school ways

I feel for those people that are just starting. But hey if you hop a train at the Mississippi and head west you miss the east coast but still get to see a lot of cool stuff.

#17 Illein

Illein

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2039 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostCulture Shock, on 21 June 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

CoF1 is NOT the best or fastest way to gain gold in GW2.  It's simply gathering materials and selling them in the trading post.  Even some of the early "low level area" mats such as copper can be gathered in a very reasonable amount of time and sold for several silver.  You can run CoF 3 times and still not get something that sells for 30 - 60 silver.

If you read the release notes you will see that the games "normal" or (old content) is being tweaked as well.  It's what the developers call the "core game".  They have in fact stated that this is what they are working on rather than expansions.  Traits are being reworked to give each class more viable builds, which was announce when?   Oh that was a yesterday!

And where was WoW when ArenaNet made a game that sold 7 million copies and didn't even have a jump function?  And just even if ... even if... the founders or ArenaNet used to work at Blizzard.... "used to",,, they are doing quite well without Blizzard now aren't they?

Could you show me how you mine approx. 2 Coppers a second? I am intrigued!

Edited by Illein, 21 June 2013 - 05:53 PM.


#18 Kattar

Kattar

    Your Shoulder to Cry On

  • Administrators
  • 2223 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:36 PM

Again, reposting a thread that's been hidden, even if you're making changes to the thread, requires that you speak with a staff member.

Do not repost this thread without permission from Neo Nugget or Khalija. This thread is now locked.

You are fooling yourself, user. Nothing here is what it seems. ANet is not the plucky hero, Guru is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena.



Questions about moderation? For the love of Balthazar ask them here!






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: fanboy

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users