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Guardian Greatsword DPS: Build + Guide

guardian greatsword dps build guide

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#61 malevolence

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 06:22 AM

So. Much. This. OP, you've clearly given your build a lot of thought and I respect the answers you've supplied here. And it's clear other people do too, because they're just as interested as I am in taking a look at your setup. The link you've listed in your first post shows a Hammer/Scepter-Focus weapon setup. Yet, based on the title of this thread and what I've read, I'm fairly certain you mean Greatsword/Sword-Focus. The build link is misleading. Its difficult to ascertain exactly what you're going for because even minor details are incorrect. Please, do us all a favor and provide an updated build link with proper information. It seems silly to let what could be a great guide go to waste because of one detail.


^ This, GuanglaiKangyi, I always respect your builds and to be honest, they are great, but as Ghostwrites is saying, the links are misleading showing different stuff, if you have time maybe you can fix them :). Thanks
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#62 ethebubbeth

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:38 PM

A question: Why aren't you using Superior Rune of Strength? 2 set gives 20% might duration, which is longer than others with their 15%, isn't it?


I can't speak for Guang but I assume this is because the 15% is for all boons, not just might. Guardians give out a lot of boons so I personally prefer extending all of them, not just might.

If you care just about might, you could take 3x double sets of runes that give might duration for +60% might duration.

Another option is a hybrid, taking 2x rune of strength instead of the +10% major boon duration runes in the last two slots. That would give you +30% boon duration for all boons and +50% duration for might.

I personally just find +40% overall boon duration, coupled with whatever I get from virtues, in general if I'm running boon duration on a guardian.

Ruby orbs or scholar runes are better for DPS in an organized party. However, I feel that boon duration is often better for guardians when in an unorganized pug.
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#63 Jon Snow

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 03:40 AM

I can't speak for Guang but I assume this is because the 15% is for all boons, not just might. Guardians give out a lot of boons so I personally prefer extending all of them, not just might.

If you care just about might, you could take 3x double sets of runes that give might duration for +60% might duration.

Another option is a hybrid, taking 2x rune of strength instead of the +10% major boon duration runes in the last two slots. That would give you +30% boon duration for all boons and +50% duration for might.

I personally just find +40% overall boon duration, coupled with whatever I get from virtues, in general if I'm running boon duration on a guardian.

Ruby orbs or scholar runes are better for DPS in an organized party. However, I feel that boon duration is often better for guardians when in an unorganized pug.


That's what I suspected as well, thank you though. I decided to go with Monk, Water, and Strength myself.
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#64 NomadDC

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 08:59 AM

@OP
What runes would yeld more dps - scholar or eagle? I'm using eagle atm as it appears to me that their stats (crit chance and crit damage) synergize much better than power and crit damage on my crit level (in full bers with 20/30/20/0/0 build I have 64% Crit chance, 98% Crit damage and 3122 attack). Also I am concerned about 6 rune bonus, at which eagle seems superior to me as well (as in theory boss will spend more time under 50% then player over 90% healt, but that may be wrong, will observe more about that).

EDIT: yeah, after running some fotm and paying attention to hp level it appears 6 rune bonus is better on Scholar. But that's only one part of my concern.

Edited by NomadDC, 11 August 2013 - 09:48 AM.

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#65 thewindwaker

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 09:16 AM

@OP
What runes would yeld more dps - scholar or eagle? I'm using eagle atm as it appears to me that their stats (crit chance and crit damage) synergize much better than power and crit damage on my crit level (in full bers with 20/30/20/0/0 build I have 64% Crit chance, 98% Crit damage and 3122 attack). Also I am concerned about 6 rune bonus, at which eagle seems superior to me as well (as in theory boss will spend more time under 50% then player over 90% healt, but that may be wrong, will observe more about that).

given that in organized groups the span of time the boss is under 50% health (or just alive^^) is extremely short, 10% as long as over 90% health, right from the beginning, is probably more effective. even in fractals (high lvl) you're either alive and well (more or less topped off), or... dead. :-)
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#66 lmaonade

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:15 PM

@OP
What runes would yeld more dps - scholar or eagle? I'm using eagle atm as it appears to me that their stats (crit chance and crit damage) synergize much better than power and crit damage on my crit level (in full bers with 20/30/20/0/0 build I have 64% Crit chance, 98% Crit damage and 3122 attack). Also I am concerned about 6 rune bonus, at which eagle seems superior to me as well (as in theory boss will spend more time under 50% then player over 90% healt, but that may be wrong, will observe more about that).

EDIT: yeah, after running some fotm and paying attention to hp level it appears 6 rune bonus is better on Scholar. But that's only one part of my concern.

my starting power in a random situation is usually 3.4k and I can often push it above 4k in very real situations, that's pretty much the difference between scholar and eagle, it's still mostly preferential, the argument between power and precision is all personal (though some may argue that boosting precision/crit chance after 50% will result in diminishing returns), and 5% damage on a 50% uptime vs 10% damage on an unknown uptime is all up to personal preferences too (I personally am a power junkie and a reckless/unskilled player, I actually have very low uptime on scholar runes so I switched to strength runes recently)

Edited by lmaonade, 11 August 2013 - 11:15 PM.

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#67 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:47 AM

Scholar > Ruby > Eagle.
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#68 navu

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 03:44 PM

just wondering .. if i click on your builds every build shows a hammer spec? isnt it supposed to be a gs spec? :o
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#69 Niekjuh

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 05:18 PM

Isn't it better to drop III in honor for II ? so you can take retreat and safe yourselves
Thought they patched the symbols and upgraded the range not so long ago?

And what about sup sigil of battle on focus, since I rotate sword/focus + GS

Edited by Niekjuh, 17 August 2013 - 05:40 PM.

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#70 Mexay

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:28 PM

Umm... unless I've done something wrong here, the builds you linked use hammer, not greatsword and the traits aren't set towards greatsword.

I'm confused?
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#71 dainslef

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:06 AM

Just use gs and some traits are empty because u can take what u want there...

Im wandering if i am using a one hand sword focused built (10/30/0/5/25), taking powerful blades and RHS. Is it worth it to use gs for the burst...ww/symbol/ww then swap back to one hand sword.

Thanks

Edited by dainslef, 27 August 2013 - 12:23 AM.

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#72 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:49 AM

Just use gs and some traits are empty because u can take what u want there...

Im wandering if i am using a one hand sword focused built (10/30/0/5/25), taking powerful blades and RHS. Is it worth it to use gs for the burst...ww/symbol/ww then swap back to one hand sword.

Thanks


It is always worth it to use GS for the burst.
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#73 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:34 PM

I don't think it's ever worth it to use GS aside from phase 1 Lupicus or as an Energy Sigil proc. Whirling Wrath is terribly inconsistent.
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#74 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:24 PM

I don't think it's ever worth it to use GS aside from phase 1 Lupicus or as an Energy Sigil proc. Whirling Wrath is terribly inconsistent.


I've never had any problems with it. Even with a bad whirl you still have symbol + bind, anyway. The biggest problem with 1H sword is that its major advantage over GS (higher crit chance) is lost when you are in a strong party stacking lots of precision buffs.

Edited by GuanglaiKangyi, 27 August 2013 - 03:24 PM.

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#75 gessen

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:05 PM

Greatsword is always handy for condition removal.
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#76 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:07 PM

I've never had any problems with it. Even with a bad whirl you still have symbol + bind, anyway. The biggest problem with 1H sword is that its major advantage over GS (higher crit chance) is lost when you are in a strong party stacking lots of precision buffs.


Not really. You still need a Perception sigil if you are going to use Greatsword. You can take Bloodlust with 1H Sword, and the DOT from Binding Blades sucks pretty hard.
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#77 dainslef

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:28 AM

I got a question about the auto attack dps of guardian weapons.
In ur guide, you state that the auto attack of mace is better than greatsword. But if i were to follow this thread on guardian forum
: https://forum-en.gui...ts-List-Partial
Thats not true unless the coefficient or the time taken to complete one auto attack chain are wrong.

Hammer
Coefficient of autoattack chain: 0.8+0.9+1+1.5=4.2
Time to execute one auto attack chain: 3.6s
Coefficient per second : 1.17

GS
Coefficient of autoattack chain:0.8x2+1.2=2.8
Time to execute one auto attack chain: 2.5s
Coefficient per second: 1.12

Sword
Coefficient of autoattack chain:0.8+0.8+1.5=3.1
Time to execute one auto attack chain: 2.5s
Coefficient per second: 1.24

Mace
Coefficient of autoattack chain:0.8+1.0+1.4=3.2
Time to execute one auto attack chain: 3s
Coefficient per second: 1.07

On paper its clear that hammer auto attack definitely out damage all other weapons since it has the 2nd coefficient per second and the highest weapon strength but the condition being that u must always complete the autoattack chain and the monster doesnt move around alot.

Mace on the other hand is weaker than all other melee weapon options as it has the lower weapon strength and the coefficient per second is lowest also. Just by looking at the coefficients, one hand sword might seem like the strongest having the highest coefficient of 1.24/s but it has a lower weapon strength rendering the difference between greatsword and sword to be quite small, slightly in favour of sword.

So the best melee auto attack dps option are 1) hammer 2) one hand sword 3) greatsword 4) mace

The above analysis is done disregarding trait built and sigils as the situation will become too complex and it has to be analyze on a case by case basis.

So is my analysis correct or i made a mistake somewhere?

Edited by dainslef, 30 August 2013 - 08:14 AM.

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#78 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 05:08 AM

You forgot to factor in RH Strength.
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#79 dainslef

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:47 AM

You forgot to factor in RH Strength.


I intentionally left out trait builds in my analysis as it will complicate the analysis. But I believe that untraited, hammer have the highest dps auto attack.

1) 10/30/0/5/25 built

Assuming a one hand sword built, 10/30/0/5/25 will have a critical chance of 68% with one hand sword (rhs) and 5% powerful blades, 10% fiery wraith, 10% radiant power and assume a 4% bonus from power of virtuous.

For simplicity sake, I will create a variable w to represent average dps of auto attack on a 2600 armour target. Hence w= (average weapon strength x coefficient per sec x power x positive damage modifiers)/2600

Just to clarify, I modeled critical chance as a positive damage modifier as (0.68*2.28+0.32*1)

W for one hand sword traited = (2246 x 952.5 x 1.24)/2600 x 1.05 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 x (0.68 x 2.28 + 0.32)
= 2521.53834


W for gs in this built = (2245 x 1047.5 x 1.12)/2600 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 x (0.53 x 2.27+ 0.47)= 2132.82715

A whooping difference of 388.711 dps per second in favour of one hand sword

2) 15/15/0/20/20 built

Now we go on to the hammer built, assume 15/15/20/20 We will have a critical chance of 46% critical chance, 10% fiery wraith modifier. Coefficient per second for hammer will increase to 1.3056/s due to writ of persistence adding o.5 to the auto attack chain.

Hence w for hammer = (2295 x 1048 x 1.3056)/2600 x 1.1 x (0.46 x 2.27 + 0.54)
= 2104.667332


Obviously in this scenario, hammer will lose out to one hand sword as most of the traits for one hand sword are located in the offensive trait line radiance while writ of persistence is in the honor trait line. However we could always push up the damage for hammer by going more offensive in the trait line distribution. Something like 10/25/0/25/10?

3) 20/25/0/0/25

Just for interest sake, I will consider the gs now. Using a built of 20/25/0/0/25. Critical chance of 51% , zealous blade 5% damage mod, 10 % fiery wraith, 10% radiant power and 4% for power of virtuous.

W for gs = (2345 x 1047.5 x 1.12)/2600 x 1.05 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 x (0.51 x 2.27 + 0.49) = 2303.70945
W for sword in this gs built = (2346 x 952.5 x 1.24)/2600 x 1.05 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 x (0.51 x 2.28 + 0.49)
= 2327.392563



Comparing these two figures results in a 24 dps in favour of sword with a built traited for gs.
But the difference between 20/25/0/0/25 gs and 10/30/0/5/25 sword is 194.1457 dps(still quite big)

Edited by dainslef, 01 September 2013 - 12:42 AM.

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#80 dainslef

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 12:42 AM

Comparison of gs burst vs sword autoattack

For the comparison of gs burst vs sword autoattack, I will look at 10/30/0/5/25 built since thats what i am using.

sword rotation for 14s = 5 full auto attack + first strikes of AA ( 5 x 2.5s + 0.83s = 13.33s)

Damage of sword for 14s = (16.3 x 952.5 x 2246)/2600 x 1.05 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 x (0.68 x 2.28+0.32) = 33146.02818

Gs burst rotation = (0s) whirling wraith (2.5s) / (2.5s) symbol (3.33s) / (3.33s) 3 full auto attack (10.83s) / (11.5s) whirling wraith (14s)

*note that there is a 0.67s gap between the last whirling wraith and 3 full auto attack chain because one more hit from auto attack takes 0.83s so we cant do anything there if we want to strictly adhere to a 14s rotation.

Damage of gs for 14s ( ideal scenario where all projectiles from whirling wraith hits)
= ( 18.85 x 1047.5 x 2245)/2600 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 x (0.53 x 2.27 + 0.47)= 35896.24266


A whooping difference of 2.7k damage in favour of gs.

Damage of gs for 14s ( scenario where only 2 projectiles from whirling wraith hits)
= (17.35 x 1047.5 x 2245)/2600 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 x (0.53 x 2.27 + 0.47) = 33,039.777773


Even in a bad situation, the damage of gs is only 106.5014 less than sword for this 14s rotation.

With such a huge upside and low downside, it makes sense to swap to gs for a 14s rotation then going back to sword for 10s.

What happens if we stick to gs the whole time for 24s? (just add 4 full auto attack chains)

Damage of sword for 24s = ( 28.7 x 952.5 x 2246)/2600 x 1.05 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 x (0.68 x 2.28 + 0.32)
= 58361.41158

Damage of gs for 24s ( ideal scenario where all projectiles from whirling wraith hits)
= ( 30.05 x 1047.5 x 2245)/2600 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.04 x (0.53 x 2.27 + 0.47)= 57224.51416

Conclusion: Gs is a burst weapon while sword has the higher sustained damage, which is what guang has said


Edited by dainslef, 01 September 2013 - 08:59 AM.

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#81 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:46 AM

I'm not really quite sure what you are trying to prove. It's obvious that GS > sword in terms of raw damage.
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#82 dainslef

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:35 AM

I'm not really quite sure what you are trying to prove. It's obvious that GS > sword in terms of raw damage.


First part was trying to see how much more is sword auto attack dps traited better than rest of weapon.

2nd part was looking at whether gs burst is good and how staying in gs will lower the damage of the 10/30/0/5/25 built

Edited by dainslef, 01 September 2013 - 09:05 AM.

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#83 OhFrustration

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:52 AM

I'm sorry, I'm bad at reading, but should I be using 20/30/0/20/0 or 10/30/0/20/10 with GS and Sword+Focus instead of the 0/0/30/30/10 GS and Staff I'm running atm? Is this build better for general PvE, map completion, events and stuff?

I'm a bit of a dummy, but as far as I understood, I should avoid using the GS auto-attack and instead get the AA damage from the Sword, and swap to GS for Whirling and Symbol of Wrath, is this right?

What about virtue spamming and Renewed Focus?

Spot the noob :P
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#84 dainslef

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 11:02 AM

10/30/0/20/10 is better if u dun want to modify ur built based on the needs of the dungeon.
This built will allow u to deal more damage than a 0/0/30/30/10 built.. but at the expense of survivability in the form of hp and toughness.
Rotation is whirling wraith to symbol then auto attack until whirling wraith up then swap to sword for auto attack 10s.
Spam virtue of justice whenever u got mobs around u for aoe blind and reuse them often
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#85 guanlongwucaii

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 06:29 PM

I do not recommend running without condition removal. 10/30/0/10/20 or 0/30/0/30/10 (the latter having least DPS but having fairly regular condition removal which is good in PUGs) is probably the better option, with 10/30/0/0/30 or 10/30/0/5/25 when you are experienced enough, especially in teh case of the build with 0 Honour due to lacking perma vigour.
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#86 lmaonade

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 04:16 AM

I'm sorry, I'm bad at reading, but should I be using 20/30/0/20/0 or 10/30/0/20/10 with GS and Sword+Focus instead of the 0/0/30/30/10 GS and Staff I'm running atm? Is this build better for general PvE, map completion, events and stuff?

I'm a bit of a dummy, but as far as I understood, I should avoid using the GS auto-attack and instead get the AA damage from the Sword, and swap to GS for Whirling and Symbol of Wrath, is this right?

What about virtue spamming and Renewed Focus?

Spot the noob :P


if it's between those 2 I'd say the 10/30/0/20/10, 10 in virtues is awesome because it allows you to swap between 20% damage and consecrations traits, both of which are simply amazing.

the only time 20/30/0/20/0 is better is when you're running a dedicated damage build with a combination of GS, sword, or scepter (as the 20 in zeal will allow you to trait for GS or scepter damage), and even then 20 in honor would not be very useful, and would be better served in virtues or valor

Otherwise I'd agree with guanlong, 30 in honor is pretty important for dungeons (even moreso if you run with PuGs because no dedicated condition removal), PoV is an excellent trait and is always worth the 30 points in honor

Edited by lmaonade, 02 September 2013 - 04:19 AM.

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#87 OhFrustration

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 12:29 PM

if it's between those 2 I'd say the 10/30/0/20/10, 10 in virtues is awesome because it allows you to swap between 20% damage and consecrations traits, both of which are simply amazing.

the only time 20/30/0/20/0 is better is when you're running a dedicated damage build with a combination of GS, sword, or scepter (as the 20 in zeal will allow you to trait for GS or scepter damage), and even then 20 in honor would not be very useful, and would be better served in virtues or valor

Otherwise I'd agree with guanlong, 30 in honor is pretty important for dungeons (even moreso if you run with PuGs because no dedicated condition removal), PoV is an excellent trait and is always worth the 30 points in honor

I don't know anything about traits and all that jazz, so I don't really have a preference. The thing is I don't particularly enjoy "challenges" as in sluggish gameplay in my PvE, and therefore I'd like to find a nice cookie cutter build that can help me stay alive for most of the time.

What about this? http://en.gw2codex.c...mightfull-ultra

inb4 go home casual
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#88 guanlongwucaii

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 12:50 PM

well for open world pve you can run whatever you want. the build you linked does poor DPS, and thus is not optimal for dungeons where more DPS = less opportunity to screw up and also just makes runs faster. while some might argue that defensive stats and traits can serve as "training wheels" I feel that going defensive in pve just prevents you from becoming a better player.


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#89 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:50 PM

I don't know anything about traits and all that jazz, so I don't really have a preference. The thing is I don't particularly enjoy "challenges" as in sluggish gameplay in my PvE, and therefore I'd like to find a nice cookie cutter build that can help me stay alive for most of the time.

What about this? http://en.gw2codex.c...mightfull-ultra

inb4 go home casual


There are certain DPS tradeoffs you can make that will drastically improve survivability without an excessive hit to DPS. For example, instead of 20/30/20/0/0, you could go 10/30/0/30/0. You will still do okay DPS and will get vigor on crit, heal on roll, and spammable shouts for condition removal. You don't really NEED any of these things in a real DPS setup (although vigor on crit is nice) but if you are looking for a tankier spec without going full retard on the tank gear, it's not too bad.

In other words, there are middle-of-the-road options between full hurrclerics 0/0/30/30/10 mace/focus and full omgdps 20/30/20/0/0. Just make sure err on the side of DPS if in doubt.
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#90 lmaonade

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:14 PM

I don't know anything about traits and all that jazz, so I don't really have a preference. The thing is I don't particularly enjoy "challenges" as in sluggish gameplay in my PvE, and therefore I'd like to find a nice cookie cutter build that can help me stay alive for most of the time.

What about this? http://en.gw2codex.c...mightfull-ultra

inb4 go home casual


It would really depend on what type of content you're doing, but I cannot recommend the trait setup you linked, Altruistic Healing has essentially become the Shout Heals Warrior of Guardian builds, useful in only very specific content (and to many not useful at all)

If you want a cookie cutter build, I would recommend 0/30/0/30/10,
more specifically: http://gw2skills.net...SrHA8g D7BGhfHB this trait setup

It can adapt to all weapons well, and contains proper damage and support tools for all types of content in GW2, you can change specific traits up as you please, but if you want a build that can do it all I'd recommend this one

Edited by lmaonade, 02 September 2013 - 07:16 PM.

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