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Can we try not to die?

survivor

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#1 Relots

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:39 PM

Death is easy. In Guild Wars 2 death means waypointing/waiting for a rez, and at worst a silver or two in repair costs. If you want to charge into the unknown with reckless disregard for safety, it works, but sadly it takes away from your run-of-the-mill adventuring.

Anyone who played the original Guild Wars probably remembers the Survivor title: 1,337,500 xp without dying. One slip-up, one moment of distraction, and your shot at the title was gone(later it merely reset). Diablo 3 took it one step further with its Hardcore mode: no restarts, no decking your new character out in the best gear from the start, and death means game over. Period. It’s harsh, yes, but it adds a delicious edge to everything you do, no matter how mundane. The idea here is to have a group of people sharing this same agenda to play together. The basic ground rules are: No importing equipment from other characters(i.e. no bank access) apart from bags, no crafting, and only partying with other hardcore toons. And dead is dead. You die before level 80, you delete the character(or you could, of course, choose to keep it, but remove it from HC activities.) Ideally, we’d like to take these characters throughout even the most challenging portions of the game, including dungeons.

We want to create a persistently challenging experience, as well as investment in these avatars. Normally if someone dies it’s simply “lol, oops!” and a rez/WP. But picture this: You and a couple HC players are engaged in a tough battle. You’re on the edge of your seat as you dodge, maneuver, and use every skill at your disposal to survive. The battle is prolonged and one of your buddies gets trapped and downed in a mob. You face a choice. You know he’s put 10, 20, 30+ hours into his character. You can play it safe and retreat, or put your own avatar at risk to revive/rally him. You make a split-second decision and leap into the fray, disrupting your foes enough to buy the downed player some time. It’s enough for your party to kill an enemy and rally him. Everyone scrambles for safety, the rallied player breathes a deep sigh of relief, and you reassemble yourselves to finish off your weakened enemies. Which sounds more fun to you?

Come on, you know you are up to the challenge…

/Hardcore Relots

#2 lmaonade

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:47 AM

was this copy pasta'd from the official forums?

#3 Just Horus

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:58 AM

View PostRelots, on 21 June 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

But picture this: You and a couple HC players are engaged in a tough battle. You’re on the edge of your seat as you dodge, maneuver, and use every skill at your disposal to survive. The battle is prolonged and one of your buddies gets trapped and downed in a mob. You face a choice. You know he’s put 10, 20, 30+ hours into his character. You can play it safe and retreat, or put your own avatar at risk to revive/rally him. You make a split-second decision and leap into the fray, disrupting your foes enough to buy the downed player some time. It’s enough for your party to kill an enemy and rally him. Everyone scrambles for safety, the rallied player breathes a deep sigh of relief, and you reassemble yourselves to finish off your weakened enemies. Which sounds more fun to you?

I guess with enough embellishment even PvE encounters can sound interesting...

#4 Arshay Duskbrow

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:04 AM

You have fun with that. All by yourself.

#5 Ship Soo

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:24 PM

I think this would be interesting.


And I would never pug again.






Oh and level 40 fractals would be epic * grawl shaman says hi *

Edit: Imagine Twilight prices then....

Edited by Ship Soo, 23 June 2013 - 10:25 PM.

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#6 Bloggi

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:56 AM

Well I'm not signing up for that but it might pique the interest of some folk.

I've had enough of the 'if you mess up, something dies' scenario in real life to be experiencing the same in a game.

#7 Noob On Steroid

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:23 AM

Nothing stops you from recreating this exact experience without any dev involvement. Yes, I know, it's not as "exciting" when death isn't 100% game enforced permanent, but you can gather a party, and say "whoever dies, deletes".

I myself have 0 interest in this. I always try to stay alive no matter what, and rarely "save my own hide" instead of trying to rally a player. I find that exciting in itself (will I succeed, or will we have 2 corpses?), I don't need any hardcore mode.

#8 Arewn

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:08 AM

This idea could be turned into an interesting concept for a game mode. They could have a 'No revives' mode in dungeons, and if you die you can only continue as a 'ghost player' who has very limited ability to contribute to the group. You'd have 5 or 6k hp and maybe a few support-type abilities on your bar, as well the ability to interact with some parts of the environment where necessary (for example Dredge Fractal pressure plate, or AC Detha's path with the traps, etc). Dying would significantly hurt your group, but you'd still be able to continue.

Probably sounds like a silly idea to most, but it's the kind of things me and my friends would set up as a change of pace or just to screw around in other games. I guess a simpler player driven version would be "if you die, take off all your armor and weapons and continue with just utility skills".

All this to say, it's an interesting idea and if you wanna try it, see if you can find some people and go for it. There's lots of interesting, player driven twists you can add to shake things up and make things more interesting.

#9 Vexorn

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostArewn, on 24 June 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

They could have a 'No revives' mode in dungeons, and if you die you can only continue as a 'ghost player' who has very limited ability to contribute to the group.

I like that idea.

But with respect to death, I think you just have to adapt and learn to play with it. I'm sure you could find a few group members to play by your hardcore rule (which also sounds interesting). You could also make it more challenging (i.e., where not as good gear, not as good weapons, etc).

#10 Majic

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:11 AM

Death Be Not Deadly

LOTRO had an "undying" title for surviving the first twenty levels. If you died once before hitting level 20, you would never be able to gain the title for that character. Ever. The only option was re-rolling and starting from scratch.

I always made a point of going for it when I rolled new toons, and the first rule of achieving it was to never, ever join a group or fight alongside other players before level 20.

Ever. It was the only way I usually had a serious chance of dying in that game. There were also certain areas to avoid because they were too dangerous, which encouraged skipping more challenging types of content in favor of safer choices that didn't jeopardize the title.

Needless to say, I don't miss it at all in GW2 and vehemently oppose the idea of introducing such a horrible mechanic to it. However, if the mechanic wasn't so draconian and such titles could be achieved eventually despite earlier failures (i.e., not the "no second chances forever" approach of LOTRO), why not?

Granted, due to the Law of Unintended Consequences it would probably tend to encourage a much more insular, self-centered and generally nasty play style than the noble ideal billed by the OP (it certainly did in LOTRO), but if people want stuff like that, what the heck. ^_^

#11 Eliirae

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:45 AM

I'd never do anything besides spam events in queensdale.  Have you seen the higher level zones and all the conditions/knockdowns/immobilize/cripples thrown at you by millions of enemies all at once?  That's not balanced in the slightest for any kind of hardcore mode.

#12 Relots

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:17 PM

Yeah, it's not something that I am asking for the devs to incorporate into the game at all. A buddy and I have already been going at it with the rules stated above. It's pretty fun to be honest. I can see how it wouldn't be for everyone involved though. We are on our 4th (maybe 5th) try right now. I believe we are both level 28 and to this point haven't really encountered any type of griefing or anything from any other players. I know that it's going to get more difficult here soon, but that's where the fun lies. The farthest we made it was around level 32 in an earlier attempt....sadly in that attempt we fell to our deaths trying to do a daily jumping puzzle ( we won't be doing any more of those ).

This "mode" is the most fun I am having in game right now, I am really excited to about it. We would love it if some more people wanted to join up, but we fully understand any and all reasons for not wanting to do so.





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