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Axe/Mace DPS Build for Dungeons and Fractals - 04/15/14

dps berserker dungeon fractal axe mace speed clear nike dnt

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#1 Nikephoros

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

Hey all. I’m Nike from [DnT] and this is my guide for the updated warrior build for dungeon speed runs with organized groups.

Video Guide:

https://youtu.be/60QYi93PfJQ

Written Guide:

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/12497977-dnt-warrior-build-102815

Enjoy

Edited by Nikephoros, 02 November 2015 - 02:23 PM.

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#2 Epitaph_Blade

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:45 PM

Axe 5 got the DPS increase only for PvP :/
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#3 Nikephoros

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:49 PM

Axe 5 got the DPS increase only for PvP :/


Spin to win. Good catch.
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#4 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:13 PM

Axe/Sword is probably better for PvE than Axe/Axe. Whirling Axe's DPS increase still isn't enough to put it over the regular axe chain and I don't think you need to proc anything on high demand.
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#5 Lethorio

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:29 PM

Is it worth testing sword mainhand? Swapping to sword when a boss is below 50%, just for the Final Thrust might be viable?
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#6 Epitaph_Blade

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:05 PM

I find it worth as a pvp weapon, now for direct damage. But I can't see it being of much benefit on PvE, I'm not sure about how good is final thrust now, I know it doubles its damage when the target is below 50% HP, but that's it. I would probably go with axe/mace + GS again. But now with a 95% focus on axe instead of GS, the giant sword still serves as a gap closer (and rush seems to work a bit better now), and whirwind attack is a good life saver.
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#7 Mjölner

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:20 PM

Will be trying out this specc with Sword+Axe and Axe+Maxe/Axe for a bit to see if we've been royally or just lordly screwed. I think Epitaph_Blade is on to something though... the sword still isn't strong enough (especially since the only bonuses for it are +5% damage and +10% crit chance): been trying the Sword for a while now and while Final Thrust can pack a punch, it has a 15 second cooldown and I rarely get above 10k hits (only 7-9 Might though)... so I'll probably go with 30/0/0/10/30 and just stick with the weapon set up of Strife's build. Axe #5 is still terribad, sadly.
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#8 Snapalope

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:57 PM

Axe 5 buff is PvP only sadly.
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#9 rotsono

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:12 PM

Does that only work for axe/mace axe/axe or can i still use my GS? :(
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#10 Thorfinnr

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:58 PM

Hey Nikephoros...you see any reason that this wouldn't work just fine to run Axe/Mace - LB for general PvE as well as use this build for fracs and dungeons, granted having the alternate weapons to loadout as needed?
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#11 Lucav

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:54 PM

Hey Nikephoros...you see any reason that this wouldn't work just fine to run Axe/Mace - LB for general PvE as well as use this build for fracs and dungeons, granted having the alternate weapons to loadout as needed?

For general pve and pugging dungeons and fractals its fine if you know how to dodge.

Does that only work for axe/mace axe/axe or can i still use my GS? :(

You could use greatsword with this build, but you are better off with 30/30/0/10/0 I think

Edited by Lucav, 25 June 2013 - 10:55 PM.

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#12 coehl

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:43 AM

I see that you made some provision in your video for swords with the recent changes. I realize you aren't advocating it, but it sounds like it's not a terrible choice by your estimation?

The reason I ask is that waiting for my autoattack to go through to Triple chop so much is getting really boring. The old axe playstyle was more fun for me. I realize it works for balance this way a little better, but I was more engaged and fluid in the old way.

Having said this, it appears there may be some way to recapture a little of that old fluid style again through the new sword or sword/sword setup. What are your thoughts on this? I have a feeling it's going to require deviation from your spec quite a bit though.
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#13 Lucav

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:56 AM

On a sidenote, empower allies gives you 150 power as well as all your party members, so its really crazy good.
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#14 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:58 AM

Damnit, you beat me to this.
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#15 Puandro

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:11 AM

Axe #4 is more dps then Auto but not #5, not even in PvP.
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#16 Nikephoros

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:15 AM

Having said this, it appears there may be some way to recapture a little of that old fluid style again through the new sword or sword/sword setup. What are your thoughts on this? I have a feeling it's going to require deviation from your spec quite a bit though.


I'm saying you can use sword off hand if you dont like axe off hand, they are both inessential so it's up to you. As far as sword mainhand it is still not viable as a straight up dps weapon for pve, and especially not with these traits.
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#17 Gedablo

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:29 AM

No greatsword? Can I still run with Strife's build after new patch?
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#18 Puandro

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:19 AM

GS Axe Mace is still superior, slightly but its still there. The damage difference is so such that if you prefer pure AXE it is damn viable as long as you get the other 11 might stacks from other ppl in your group.
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#19 crizpynutz

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:12 PM

Thanks for the quick build guide. I'm actually a big fan of the dual wield play style (had to use the previous meta cause it was just best). Does this work in general PvE and PUG dungeon runs as well, or in your opinion strictly tied to a team build? Seems like this should be versatile enough to be effective on its own.

One question of the weapon sigil, you mention either Force or Night; what about Accuracy? Is the extra crit chance not as effective?

Edited by crizpynutz, 26 June 2013 - 12:15 PM.

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#20 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:19 PM

Thanks for the quick build guide. I'm actually a big fan of the dual wield play style (had to use the previous meta cause it was just best). Does this work in general PvE and PUG dungeon runs as well, or in your opinion strictly tied to a team build? Seems like this should be versatile enough to be effective on its own.

One question of the weapon sigil, you mention either Force or Night; what about Accuracy? Is the extra crit chance not as effective?


It would probably be fine on it's own with pugs, but you never know. The variety in pug groups is mind-blowing. Force is also usually a better option when your crit chance gets into the 80-90% range. I don't remember the math on it, but I believe that it was something like 1.5% better damage than Sigil of Accuracy. Night is hands-down better than Accuracy if you are in a night time instance.
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#21 crizpynutz

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:26 PM

It would probably be fine on it's own with pugs, but you never know. The variety in pug groups is mind-blowing. Force is also usually a better option when your crit chance gets into the 80-90% range. I don't remember the math on it, but I believe that it was something like 1.5% better damage than Sigil of Accuracy. Night is hands-down better than Accuracy if you are in a night time instance.


Thank you sir, I happen to have a Sigil of Night, before I overwrote my Accuracy I wanted to be sure. True story on the pug groups. My main guild tends to "stray" from the meta, so IMO, they are basically intelligent, skilled PUG groups.

For Utilities does FGJ, Shake it Off, Banner of Disc and SoR still hold for the baseline with changes based on party? Seems like no need to change that.

Edited by crizpynutz, 26 June 2013 - 12:32 PM.

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#22 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:50 PM

Thank you sir, I happen to have a Sigil of Night, before I overwrote my Accuracy I wanted to be sure. True story on the pug groups. My main guild tends to "stray" from the meta, so IMO, they are basically intelligent, skilled PUG groups.

For Utilities does FGJ, Shake it Off, Banner of Disc and SoR still hold for the baseline with changes based on party? Seems like no need to change that.


I'm starting to think that Signet of Might is better than Frenzy and OMM. Banner of Strength and Discipline should always stay, and the 3rd Warrior could take OMM or Frenzy. You could also replace Frenzy with Signet of Might if you want, I just don't know if it's worth it and I haven't done any math on it.

You could think of it in terms of variables, too.


Skills: For Great Justice, X, Y

X could be Frenzy or Signet of Might, Y could be a Banner or Signet of Might.


Signet of Rage should pretty much always be your Elite, especially since you can take Signet Mastery now.
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#23 Stathis85

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:00 PM

Nice guide it seems that the standard GS adrenaline hoarding build has been nerfed, so yea DW is probably the way to go now.

Nikephoros, how do you feel about a 20(V,X)-25(V,VIII)-0-0-25(I,IX) axe/mace - sword/sword build with burst spamming? I haven't tested it yet but i will today on fractals 48+
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#24 crizpynutz

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:33 PM

I'm starting to think that Signet of Might is better than Frenzy and OMM. Banner of Strength and Discipline should always stay, and the 3rd Warrior could take OMM or Frenzy. You could also replace Frenzy with Signet of Might if you want, I just don't know if it's worth it and I haven't done any math on it.

You could think of it in terms of variables, too.


Skills: For Great Justice, X, Y

X could be Frenzy or Signet of Might, Y could be a Banner or Signet of Might.


Signet of Rage should pretty much always be your Elite, especially since you can take Signet Mastery now.


I hadn't thought about Sig of Might, but your right, now that we take Sig Mastery, maybe it's a better choice?

I'll have to tinker with the 3rd skill.
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#25 Nikephoros

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:42 PM

Nice guide it seems that the standard GS adrenaline hoarding build has been nerfed, so yea DW is probably the way to go now.

Nikephoros, how do you feel about a 20(V,X)-25(V,VIII)-0-0-25(I,IX) axe/mace - sword/sword build with burst spamming? I haven't tested it yet but i will today on fractals 48+


I think burst builds would be a ton of fun to play (who wouldnt enjoy 25k eviscerates?) But I think you be disapointed with overall dps especially in fotm where trash killing is more important than single target.

I hadn't thought about Sig of Might, but your right, now that we take Sig Mastery, maybe it's a better choice?

I'll have to tinker with the 3rd skill.


Sig of might is a bigger dps boost than frenzy by a significant margin. But sig of might means no stun breaker. Not having a stun breaker in certain dungeons is ok. In others its really bad. Use your discretion.
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#26 coehl

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:08 PM

I'm saying you can use sword off hand if you dont like axe off hand, they are both inessential so it's up to you. As far as sword mainhand it is still not viable as a straight up dps weapon for pve, and especially not with these traits.

As they say in France.

Balls.
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#27 NullTran

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:24 PM

GS Axe Mace is still superior, slightly but its still there. The damage difference is so such that if you prefer pure AXE it is damn viable as long as you get the other 11 might stacks from other ppl in your group.

I'm beeing confused by this post. So is gs / axe+mace still superior even witout fast hands and everything that comes with it, since there was this comment:

30/10/0/0/30 is about 10% less dps than this build. For greatsword the best you can do is 30/30/0/10/0, and that does not use any axe. But note that this is significantly better dps than greatsword.

Source

Edited by NullTran, 26 June 2013 - 05:25 PM.

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#28 Nikephoros

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:44 PM

The reason GS+axe doesn't work so well anymore is you are forced to pick between Fast Hands (and 15%personal crit damage) or Empowered allies and that is a really tough choice. No fast hands = no sigil of battle = 10% dps loss relative to pre-patch build. Then add the 15% crit damage you lose and the the buff to Berserker's Power hardly makes up for.

Now lets say you go the other way and do 30/25/0/0/15 and keep fast hands. Now you're costing your team the Empowered Allies bonus which is insanely good. This is reasonable in a multi-warrior party where someone else can bring it. But you're still less overall dps than the old build and providing less team utility.

Another difficulty is the new axe chain makes weapon swapping between two different main hands quite difficult. Before, it didnt matter if you interrupted your axe chain to cast Cyclone Axe or Crushing Blow before you swapped back; but now it matters a great deal. It is rather difficult to get used to managing the axe auto in a pure axe build (it plays alot like a Thief D/D build now in terms of your rotation except in reverse) so managing it perfectly with a greatsword swap in the mix won't be easy and just overall quite inefficient.

Edited by Nikephoros, 26 June 2013 - 06:45 PM.

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#29 Epitaph_Blade

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:09 PM

I know way before this patch, there was some testing on how effective was spamming eviscerate in comparison with keeping the adrenaline for the damage boost. But, is the difference that clear now? There are better ways to gain adrenaline quick with axes now, also discipline line gives a reduction in the CD, and we can get good boosts for the burst ability.

If bursting were more effective now, the combat will be a little bit more dynamic.
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#30 Puandro

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:11 PM

The reason GS+axe doesn't work so well anymore is you are forced to pick between Fast Hands (and 15%personal crit damage) or Empowered allies and that is a really tough choice. No fast hands = no sigil of battle = 10% dps loss relative to pre-patch build. Then add the 15% crit damage you lose and the the buff to Berserker's Power hardly makes up for.

Now lets say you go the other way and do 30/25/0/0/15 and keep fast hands. Now you're costing your team the Empowered Allies bonus which is insanely good. This is reasonable in a multi-warrior party where someone else can bring it. But you're still less overall dps than the old build and providing less team utility.

Another difficulty is the new axe chain makes weapon swapping between two different main hands quite difficult. Before, it didnt matter if you interrupted your axe chain to cast Cyclone Axe or Crushing Blow before you swapped back; but now it matters a great deal. It is rather difficult to get used to managing the axe auto in a pure axe build (it plays alot like a Thief D/D build now in terms of your rotation except in reverse) so managing it perfectly with a greatsword swap in the mix won't be easy and just overall quite inefficient.


30/25/0/0/15 is still superior to Axe at even amount of might and pushes ahead if no other person can give you might in pugs. Even in 25 might grps GS Axe still beats it by a bit and you still have the GS burst. The rotation is not difficult at all. You do your GS rotation and swap, do

Cyclone Axe
Crushing Blow up? Use it.
Axe #1

If Crushing Blow is down do Cycline then Axe #1 then Check if Crushing is up at the end, if not do the first part of Axe #1 for pretty much no dps loss before you swap to GS.

Its essentially the same as Pure Axe build. Spam #1 unless CDs are up but dont interrupt Axe #1 to use them.

Edit: Fixed the build i posted.

Edited by Puandro, 26 June 2013 - 10:18 PM.

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