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Axe/Mace DPS Build for Dungeons and Fractals - 04/15/14

dps berserker dungeon fractal axe mace speed clear nike dnt

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#31 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:17 PM

30/25/0/10/15 is still superior to Axe at even amount of might and pushes ahead if no other person can give you might in pugs. Even in 25 might grps GS Axe still beats it by a bit and you still have the GS burst. The rotation is not difficult at all. You do your GS rotation and swap, do

Cyclone Axe
Crushing Blow up? Use it.
Axe #1

If Crushing Blow is down do Cycline then Axe #1 then Check if Crushing is up at the end, if not do the first part of Axe #1 for pretty much no dps loss before you swap to GS.

Its essentially the same as Pure Axe build. Spam #1 unless CDs are up but dont interrupt Axe #1 to use them.


So we get 80 trait points now?
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#32 Lucav

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:23 PM

30/25/0/0/15 is still superior to Axe at even amount of might and pushes ahead if no other person can give you might in pugs. Even in 25 might grps GS Axe still beats it by a bit and you still have the GS burst. The rotation is not difficult at all. You do your GS rotation and swap, do

Cyclone Axe
Crushing Blow up? Use it.
Axe #1

If Crushing Blow is down do Cycline then Axe #1 then Check if Crushing is up at the end, if not do the first part of Axe #1 for pretty much no dps loss before you swap to GS.

Its essentially the same as Pure Axe build. Spam #1 unless CDs are up but dont interrupt Axe #1 to use them.

Edit: Fixed the build i posted.

the only problem with this is arms is a terrible tree for axe, and empower allies is f'ing amazing
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#33 Puandro

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:05 PM

So we get 80 trait points now?


I fixed the spec 1 min after i posted. Too used to posting the old build :P

the only problem with this is arms is a terrible tree for axe, and empower allies is f'ing amazing


I wont argue that empowered allies is great and worth it if you are the only warrior in group but 2+ wars in grp and its wasted an a worse dps build.
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#34 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:10 PM

I fixed the spec 1 min after i posted. Too used to posting the old build :P



I wont argue that empowered allies is great and worth it if you are the only warrior in group but 2+ wars in grp and its wasted an a worse dps build.


You can still take Empowered and it saves the trouble of retraiting before every single dungeon or figuring out what Warrior has 10 in tactics.
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#35 Puandro

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:30 PM

You can still take Empowered and it saves the trouble of retraiting before every single dungeon or figuring out what Warrior has 10 in tactics.


This is true and like i said earlier, pure Axe and GS Axe builds dps is almost the same assuming the same amount of might stacks so both are viable. Btw when i compare pure axe vs gs/axe i do it with pure axe using empowered, not empowered allies as that does less self dps, although im unsure by how much.

The way i look at it is if im doing organized dungeons im doing more than 1 path so we can decide who will run pure axe for empowered allies and respec NP. If i am pugging i rather go GS and be selfish and keep my might. I cant rely on other warriors to even run FGJ or Banners outside of CoF P1 and that means i will prob make better use of the Extra might from Forceful GS than lowering my damage just to raise the pugs most likely bad dps.
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#36 KodakMoment

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:02 AM

Is it me or is Empower allies bugged? I am only gaining 70 power
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#37 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:04 AM

Is it me or is Empower allies bugged? I am only gaining 70 power


I'll check right now.

EDIT: Tooltip says it gives 70 power when it's on the bar with the rest of your boons etc, but it actually does give 150 Power. I started with 2,446 power and ended up with 2,596 after getting into combat. According to my subtraction, that's a 150 difference.

Edited by BrazilTheHue, 27 June 2013 - 12:08 AM.

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#38 coehl

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:53 AM

I was pretty glad to find Into the Mists was updated for the patch and created this build on it for personal reference, only to later notice that Nike linked it on his Youtube video description.

For those here, this is for ease of reference.

http://intothemists....;9;9;9;9;0V875o

Edited by coehl, 27 June 2013 - 12:54 AM.

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#39 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:42 AM

I ♥♥♥♥ing hate this build. It's too boring to play.
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#40 crizpynutz

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:53 AM

I ♥♥♥♥ing hate this build. It's too boring to play.


LOL, true, but after using it for a few dungeon runs, it's effective. Boring, not smooth, but effective.
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#41 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:54 AM

LOL, true, but after using it for a few dungeon runs, it's effective. Boring, not smooth, but effective.


I'm going to quite Guild Wars 2 again. This time I'll become a porn star so I won't need to come back.
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#42 Nikephoros

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:15 AM

I have a lot of playtesting to do. There are a lot of ideas for improvements out there worth investigating.
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#43 WarHat

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:12 PM

I ♥♥♥♥ing hate this build. It's too boring to play.


I'm with you on this. I can't dispute that this build is the clear winner in terms of best sustained DPS but I can't get over how boring it is.
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#44 Nikephoros

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:43 PM

The challenge if this build and probably all warrior builds forward is managing the ace auto chain while still using ace 2 & mace 4 as much as possible. Interrupting your axe chain is dps death and its going to be something you just have to get used to and will make the class more skill intensive.
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#45 Mjölner

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:09 PM

As other posters have already stated: yes, this is extremely boring.

Now, I've tested the sword for two days now with variations of this setup, focusing on just spamming the auto attack and #3 skill (have both Berserker's Might and Heightend Focus) and from my tests, the result is: it is still inferior to the Axe. On par with the GS auto, but HB wins out against Final Thrust, even if you don't crit, and has a lower cooldown. So we can safely ignore that weapon for now.
A guild mate is still running the 20/25/0/10/15 setup and is doing just fine, so I will probably revert to that as well, because while this setup does pump out damage (even though I have to eat crit food now >.< ), it isn't fun. It's boring. Or I could play solitaire. Same level of fun, really.
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#46 Nikephoros

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:46 PM

Thr biggest problem with this build is it has a lack of initial burst damage compared to the old gs build bust sustained dps is on par. But most of the fights in this game are short and burst is superior. Simply put, you need greatsword for 100b and whirlwind for that first burst in almost every encounter. I really need to try out a ton more ideas because im really unsatisfied with all options at this point.
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#47 Thorfinnr

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:28 PM

Thr biggest problem with this build is it has a lack of initial burst damage compared to the old gs build bust sustained dps is on par. But most of the fights in this game are short and burst is superior. Simply put, you need greatsword for 100b and whirlwind for that first burst in almost every encounter. I really need to try out a ton more ideas because im really unsatisfied with all options at this point.


I'm trying several out as well. I make no argument...for sustained DPS, this may be our best setup. But all I can say is WOW, does my mindset/playstyle have to change based on the reshuffle of the traits...I seem to be taking hella-more damage with less mitigation possible. I often find myself playing solo or just running into random people in open world PvE, so I am trying some different approaches. I definitely miss the inital burst of damage from the GS.

I'm looking forward to hearing how the numbers crunch out, and if any of us have some major epiphany on a new trait combo.

Thanks to everyone for the discussions and ideas.
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#48 coehl

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:31 PM

But most of the fights in this game are short and burst is superior. Simply put, you need greatsword for 100b and whirlwind for that first burst in almost every encounter.

Well this may not be helpful but let me show you what I'm doing.
As you say, burst from a GS is very much needed in some situations. For those, I use this build.


But if I see a sustained fight coming up, since it uses your trait setup but with different weapons and different trait selections (but not a different tree) it's a fairly easy change up. If people are willing to wait about 8 seconds for me to just change these things.

I doubt you'll advise management like that, but it could be useful in your hard work. And I appreciate it all, btw.
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#49 Nikephoros

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:38 PM

I saw that video and jokka and his buds are good. I am not convinced that build has better dps than 30/25/0/0/15. It very well may be but I want to test. With the buff to empowered allies, it is almost certainly better for the team but a second warrior becimes dimimishing returns. we will find out.
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#50 coehl

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:41 PM

I saw that video and jokka and his buds are good. I am not convinced that build has better dps than 30/25/0/0/15. It very well may be but I want to test. With the buff to empowered allies, it is almost certainly better for the team but a second warrior becimes dimimishing returns. we will find out.

Exactly. If there are discrepancies between the two builds, for now I'm erring on the side of yours since sustained damage on a boss is more valuable. Empowered Allies being an example of that. There's not much sense in changing that out whether I have the GS or not. Only if another warrior has it.

Edited by coehl, 27 June 2013 - 06:42 PM.

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#51 madreamer

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:18 PM

What's better between signet of might and signet of fury?
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#52 Puandro

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:37 PM

What's better between signet of might and signet of fury?


Might.

I havent had much time to test a new build with GS that has 10 tactics. Sticking with 30/25/0/0/15 still but i would like to be able to incorporate 10 tactics into it with GS.

GS builds without forceful GS trait dont work btw.
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#53 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:28 PM

Might.

I havent had much time to test a new build with GS that has 10 tactics. Sticking with 30/25/0/0/15 still but i would like to be able to incorporate 10 tactics into it with GS.

GS builds without forceful GS trait dont work btw.


Yes, I completely agree. Not taking Forceful Greatsword is like doing sex to a prostitute without wearing a condom.
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#54 coehl

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:15 PM

GS builds without forceful GS trait dont work btw.

It's not optimal if you're in a fight that requires sustained, long term damage.

But the Axe build we have here is awesome for that. I've found that trading in a GS and changing a couple things to make it GS friendlier during trash is actually quite effective at cutting down the butter mobs.

You have to talk about the whole strategy, and synergy in this case. Not small contexts.

Edited by coehl, 27 June 2013 - 10:25 PM.

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#55 Ofdoom75

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:00 PM

Try axe sword 30/25/0/015 it's better dps and works with gs as swap weapon oh sword 4 adds a 15 sec bleed can. Be fired from ranged as your heading in and can be ripped for crits 10 k ish skill 5 is a nice block that adds another 15 sec bleed. Easy to keep long bleed up for the 10% damage boost.
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#56 Pellarch

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:17 AM

GS could still be useful in this build even without forceful greatsword. At the end of the day it just comes down to whether 100b + WW (cancelled with a weapon swap) still offers higher DPS in those 5 seconds than axe autoattack (the assumption with the old pre-patch warrior build). If it does then A/M+GS could still be the optimal setup even in this 30/0/0/10/30 build. The loss of might stacks shouldn't be a massive problem in groups, and the loss of faster greatsword skill recharge times just means you stay on A/M longer now rather than switching immediately.
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#57 Skorpious

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:35 AM

If I was to use this build, what would be the optimal off-hand to use for my secondary set? Another Axe? Axe 4 can be useful, but Axe 5 is still inferior compared to autoattacks and I would prefer not to spend gold on an exotic sword if it is a sub-par alternative to another weapon. =/

(I have 7 characters, so every piece of gold counts)
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#58 Nyid

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:17 AM

From what I can tell, two axes would be optimal. Whirling axe in particular will be handy for instantly recharging adrenaline. Might actually have use for burst skills now (albiet on trash mobs, unless you can find multiple targets to hit during a boss fight)
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#59 Puandro

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:51 AM

So i did some math and ran some rotations on paper, before you compare me to that bad guardian khan that says Rangers and guards do more dps than Wars, i actually do in-game testing also and PvE, with this setup i was able to come up with the GS Axe/Mace build long before Strife made a guide about it and he was still running Pure Axe, anyways....

Use Power/Crit food and Power Potion, full zerk ascended gear with bloodlust, force sigils, 25 stacks of might 25 vuln 100% fury uptime AND discipline/str banners!

We shall use the Pure Axe build as baseline

Build #1
30/0/0/10/30 Pure Axe
http://intothemists....09T49A;45;058Bt

Build #2
30/25/0/010 GS Axe/Mace
http://intothemists....0TO;0E48A49;55D

Build #3
30/0/0/10/30 GS Axe/Mace
http://intothemists....09T48A;45;058Bu


Build #2 does 5.9% more damage than Build #1.Its actually 3.7% more damage if you discount the bleeding from Precise Strikes.

Build #3 does 8.9% more damage than Build #1. Slashing Power is more DPS than Axe Mastery. Axe mastery makes you do .7% less damage.

Build #3 does 3% more damage than Build #2 btw.


The rotation i came up with for Build #3 btw looks like this.

Greatsword Swing (Obviously skip when starting combat)
HB
WW
Weapon Swap
Cyclone
Crushing
Tremor (If needed)
Axe #1
Axe #1

Repeat

Basically your Axe Rotation should have 2 Cyclones and 2 Axe #1 before you swap fill in Crushing/tremor as they come up. Using Cyclone if its up before you swap is a DPS increase, it is super quick damage and will be back up after you swap from GS with the Axe CD Trait.


I will say this, if you aren't in an organized group the lack of 25 might will mean 30/25/0/0/15 is still superior to give yourself might.
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#60 Nikephoros

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:16 AM

I also did some math yesterday and found that 30/0/0/10/30 is superior to 30/25/0/0/15 regardless of what weapon setup you pick. My numbers were a bit different but the trend was the same 30/0 gs+axemace is about 4% better dps personally than 30/25, and when you factor in Empowered Allies buffing the whole team, the comparison isn't close at all.

Additionally, I did about 3 hours of playtesting in game DPS tests on my stream last night and within the 30/0/0/10/30 build each weapon option (either GS+axe or Axe+Axe) had approximately equal kill times on any boss that lasted more than 2 weapon swaps. For example a generic 3w/m/g team with all gs+axe mace warriors killed the evolved destroyer in 18 seconds from the first hit. 3x pure axe warriors did it in exactly 18 seconds too.

As far as why 30/25 sucks here goes...

1. You have 3% less chance to crit base than the build with 0 in Arms which is a lulz. It also has 15% less crit damage.
2. The 30/25 build maintains an average of 2 stacks of vuln 100% uptime on bosses. Forceful GS maintains on average 3 stacks of Might. I think a lot of people overestimate what these two traits do. the 2 vuln stacks are nice, I'll agree. However, the 30/0 build maintains 2 stacks of Might from versatile power so these roughly cancel out because I am also assuming in the Forceful calculation that all 3 hits of WW hit everytime, which we know is bs.
3. I only assumed 3 boons for Empowered, we all know in a real boss fight that is a conservative number. The more boons 30/0 has the further ahead it goes. the 30/25 build does have the 10% damage vs bleeding buff, but the difference in base damage modifiers is only 4%. Which is canceled out by 2 boons, and even without the two boons 30/0 is superior so adding them in is hilarious.
4. You have the ability with 30/0 to bring empowered allies which is basically adding 750 power to your team dps, which is a party-wide buff that 30/25 has nothing similar for unless they can bring 2 copies of banner of strength that stack.

So all in all, 30/0/0/10/30 is the superior trait spread for DPS regardless of which weapon set you use. In practice pure axe and gs+axe (both using 30/0) have virtually identical kill times in any fight lasting longer than 2 weapon swaps. The gs pulls ahead in shorter fights, and fights where the boss is pushed against a wall.

editted for clarity

Edited by Nikephoros, 28 June 2013 - 01:57 PM.

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