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DPS Hammer, Synergy with Lightning Hammer Elementalist

soulja boy speakers going hammer hammer dps brazil

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#61 teflondon75

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:30 AM

Would using a sword/focus as the offset be as effective as a GS offhand here? I know the build is not traited for 1hand/sword etc I just happen to enjoy those weapons haha. I figure, for my group at least, the extra blinds and self blocks etc it would be pretty decent. Anyhow, after rereading this I guess it's not really a question :P Use whatcha like and all that. I'll leave it instead of deleting if anybody has something to comment.
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#62 guanlongwucaii

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 04:15 PM

I highly doubt that it will be worth it because you miss out on powerful blades if you take 1h sword. may be useful for stacking vuln/focus block but imo the utility that gs 5 brings in pugs/no mesmer groups is too good not to take.
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#63 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:39 PM

I think that Sword would be more useful than Greatsword in just about any situation, and if you have perception stacks, the not critting won't be as bad.
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#64 guanlongwucaii

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 03:25 AM

is it worth not autoattacking with hammer and switching to sword?
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#65 teflondon75

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 03:59 AM

is it worth not autoattacking with hammer and switching to sword?


I think you'd lose the entire point(perma protection being one of them) of a hammer build like this if you started swapping off for sword/auto attacks.
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#66 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 12:12 PM

The whole point of using a Hammer as a weapon to damage is to have Protection while in combat.
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#67 guanlongwucaii

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 04:28 PM

yeah, but then why have the sword offhand discussion anyway? only use I see is the focus 5/vuln burst but other than that I don't see the point of swapping out of hammer midfight, unless you meant using the sword as opening vuln burst in which case i am dumb and cannot read
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#68 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 04:54 PM

I mentioned it because someone asked.
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#69 Danny091283

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:44 AM

In the beginning of this topic you said you are had a low crit chance (60%). So i am curious about why you didn't consider to take 3 parts of assissans armor to increase your crit chance?
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#70 Epixors

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:08 AM

In the beginning of this topic you said you are had a low crit chance (60%). So i am curious about why you didn't consider to take 3 parts of assissans armor to increase your crit chance?


Effective power with full Berserker:~4876.17748992
Effective power with 3 Assassin: ~4857.8965776


Simply because it isn't better.

Edited by Epixors, 22 October 2013 - 10:08 AM.

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#71 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:44 PM

I've thought about it. but I just don't want to have any more extra armor pieces. I'm also not sure that only 3 pieces of Assassin's would make a big difference.
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#72 Epixors

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:12 PM

From what I've currently tested, the best combination would be this:

- Assassin's Legs and Head
- Perception/Night Hammer. In case Night doesn't apply the next best option is Force, Accuracy after that (assuming keeping up the 25 stacks). I don't want to put both Bloodlust and Perception stacks in a single build because well, go down once and it's gone.
- Curry Butternut Squash Soup > Sweet and Spicy Butternut Squash > Active Dragon's Breath Bun > Butternut Squash > Truffle Steak >
- Slaying Potion > Sharpening Stone > Maintenance Oil (any other useful utilities I may have overlooked?)

These calculations assume the following:
- 25 might
- 25 vulnerability
- fury up
- Spotter
- Frost Spirit
- Banner of Discipline
- Banner of Strength

https://docs.google....ckE&usp=sharing

EDIT: Misread food, Curry Butternut Squash Soup appears to be be best.

Edited by Epixors, 05 November 2013 - 04:15 PM.

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#73 Nikephoros

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 07:27 PM

I've thought about it. but I just don't want to have any more extra armor pieces. I'm also not sure that only 3 pieces of Assassin's would make a big difference.


I did the math for 15/25/0/20/10 hammer build and every assassins piece I added brought the EP down. I redid it using 15/15/0/20/20 and assassins gear also decreased the EP in every scenario.

Explanations why:

1. The chance to crit with all buffs (but no perception) is 79% for the 10/25. No amount of assassins gear will get you to the magic breakpoint where Bloodlust stacks become superior to Perception. And even if they did you would have to sacrifice too much Power to get there.
2. Since dps Guardians don't go into Valor, their crit damage is a bit lower than Rangers or Warriors (two classes who do benefit from some Assassins pieces). simply put, with less crit damage 1% chance to crit is worth less to a Guardian than it is for a warrior or ranger, so in those professions where there is an ever so slight advantage to assassins gears that advantage does not exist for a Guardian.
3. Guardians have a lower base power than Warriors or Rangers due to only going 15 into Zeal vs warriors and rangers who go 30 into their Power lines. This means that an increase in Power for a Guardian gives a greater marginal rate of return than it does for other classes who have higher power built into their traits.
4. So with 2 and 3 together, you see that guardians get less return from precision and get more return from power, the end result being assassins gear not worth it for the hammer build.

edit: I didn't take Spotter into account. so thats why my result may vary from Ep's

Edited by Nikephoros, 06 November 2013 - 07:27 PM.

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#74 Epixors

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 07:33 PM

When I disable Spotter, I get that it's best to take only the leggings Assassins. When I use it, leg and helm become better for me.

Forgot to add that I also assume this in my calculations:
- 10% potion
- Curry Butternut Squash Soup
- Night/Perception sigil

May very well be that you're right or that there's an error in my spreadsheet, haven't been doing the math on it as long as you have.
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#75 Nikephoros

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:07 PM

I'm getting different numbers for Power than you are, just looking at your spread sheet compared to my numbers. i don't know who is incorrect, but I assume a Guardian with 15 in zeal should have 2304 base power in full zerker. Add 1045 for BoS and 25 Might stacks. Add 100 for Sweet and Spicy. I show 3,449. You calculator shows 3,429. It's possible I am in error, but I put the same info into gw2buildcraft and got the same Power results.

Edited by Nikephoros, 06 November 2013 - 09:07 PM.

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#76 simbola

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:44 PM

what are the various trait variants instead of 15-15-0-20-20?

has anyone experimented with 25 or 30 in virtues?
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#77 Nikephoros

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:52 AM

what are the various trait variants instead of 15-15-0-20-20?

has anyone experimented with 25 or 30 in virtues?


When you don't want condition removal, 10/25/0/25/10 is very good on hammer for increased dps.
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#78 Berengir

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 02:56 PM

When you don't want condition removal, 10/25/0/25/10 is very good on hammer for increased dps.


Would 10/25/0/25/10 be higher in dps than 15/25/0/20/10?
In the groups I run with, we're usually not Vulnerability capped.
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#79 Thorfinnr

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 05:26 PM

Hey Brazil, I'm liking the versatility of this build.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on a variation.

I was wondering if running this with all shouts might be beneficial, in some cases.

I was considering using Retreat, HtL, and SY. Since no Consecrations would be used would it be viable to swap Virtue Trait VI out for Virtue I(keeping the important condition removal of IX). Also, since Purging Flames would not be used, what would you suggest swapping Zeal Trait II out for?

I'm not at lvl 80 yet, so I appreciate your insight into the usage of this variant. I am thinking along the lines of this being used on a more "as needed" basis. I'm just thinking of what and how things could be swapped on the fly without the worry of changing any Trait Line values.

Thanks
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#80 Epixors

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 06:34 PM

Herro,

If consecrations aren‘t of any use, usually it‘s best to take Bane Signet. Shouts should be picked based on the situation, alwadys keep “Retreat!“ though. If consecrations aren‘t needed it‘s definitely best to pick up Unscathed Contender. Don‘t swap Fiery Wrath, you and other classes still apply burning, and nothing else is worth it.
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#81 Thorfinnr

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 07:54 PM

Herro,

If consecrations aren‘t of any use, usually it‘s best to take Bane Signet. Shouts should be picked based on the situation, alwadys keep “Retreat!“ though. If consecrations aren‘t needed it‘s definitely best to pick up Unscathed Contender. Don‘t swap Fiery Wrath, you and other classes still apply burning, and nothing else is worth it.


Showing my lack of Guardian experience here...forgot about our constant burn apply via the Virtue. :eek: Thanks for the reminder.
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#82 Ignaxio

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 01:56 PM

Using the same assumptions as Epixors with the addition of removing frost spirit if not assuming spotter (since you'd probably have spotter when you have frost spirit), I get that it's always better to take legs & helm assassin, unless you're not using frost spirit + spotter, and use curry butternut squash, in which case it's better to take only legs.

link to spreadsheet: https://docs.google....TUE&usp=sharing

I'm not sure if the math is correct, but my spreadsheet did agree with Epixors' on EP and the breakpoint with his assumptions, so I assume the other values are correct as well.

Edited by Ignaxio, 01 December 2013 - 10:17 PM.

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#83 Epixors

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:05 PM

Using the same assumptions as Epixors with the addition of removing frost spirit if not assuming spotter (since you'd probably have spotter when you have frost spirit), I get that it's always better to take legs & helm assassin, unless you're not using frost spirit + spotter, and use curry butternut squash, in which case it's better to take only legs.

link to spreadsheet: https://docs.google....TUE&usp=sharing

I'm not sure if the math is correct, but my spreadsheet did agree with Epixors' on EP and the breakpoint with his assumptions, so I assume the other values are correct as well.


I honestly completely forget that I was having this discussion.
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#84 Exo Dyo

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:14 AM

Using the same assumptions as Epixors with the addition of removing frost spirit if not assuming spotter (since you'd probably have spotter when you have frost spirit), I get that it's always better to take legs & helm assassin, unless you're not using frost spirit + spotter, and use curry butternut squash, in which case it's better to take only legs.

link to spreadsheet: https://docs.google....TUE&usp=sharing

I'm not sure if the math is correct, but my spreadsheet did agree with Epixors' on EP and the breakpoint with his assumptions, so I assume the other values are correct as well.


Ok.. I don't understand that sheet at all. Might be just me.

And can you have both bloodlust and perception on?
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#85 Epixors

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 03:30 PM

Ok.. I don't understand that sheet at all. Might be just me.

And can you have both bloodlust and perception on?


It's not the clearest sheet but it should be easy to read. You enter your character data top-left (stats from armor, traits, etc. that you have while not being buffed), next one you enter which party buffs you have, then your food, your utilities, sigils etc are self-explanatory.

Results clearly give the results (duh?). You can have both stacks on, usually you'll have 1 type of stacking with you because building up 50 kills without a single down is annoying and you'll probably be better of switching to a damage modifier sigil.
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#86 Nikephoros

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 03:59 PM

You can absolutely not stack two different kinds of stacking sigils. If you have a single bloodlust stack, you cannot obtain any perception stacks, or vice versa.
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#87 Epixors

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:18 PM

You can't? I never played around with it but guildies told me it's possible :\
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#88 Nikephoros

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:25 PM

Sorry. If you could, every arah speed run record would have 25 stacks of each since you can pre-stack before the dungeon.
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#89 diddy

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 06:35 PM

Is there any reason to use a hammer build outside of high level fractals?
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#90 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 06:06 AM

Is there any reason to use a hammer build outside of high level fractals?


No
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