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Why you shouldn't use real money to buy gold from anyone other than Arena.net:

gold farmer buying gold black market

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#1 Subdue

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:41 AM

Earlier today I found a thread about buying gold from black market sellers while trying to find the trend in gold price.  I found it a very interesting read.  The OP in that thread made an interesting argument for why it shouldn't be morally reprehensible to buy from the black market.  He argues that since Arena.net already allows gold to be purchased with real currency, the door is already open, and there is nothing wrong with people simply looking for a cheaper way.  You can read more into the thread here (I would have posted this as a response but the thread was closed months ago): http://www.guildwars...om-gold-sellers.

Numerous counter arguments came up that included:

-  Black market sellers are breaking copyright laws.
-  Black market sellers are often stealing accounts and using bots to gather gold.
-  Influxes of gold due to botting hurts the economy

If you want a more thorough list of the counter arguments, you can just see the thread itself.

The reason I'm posting this thread is that there was one particular argument that really has to be made, and something people, especially those who don't like that other players are able to buy gold, need to understand:

Unlike the gold that black market sellers sell, gold bought through Arena.net is a two part process.  The player first buys gems, which have a fixed monetary value, and are basically only for cosmetic things that don't actually affect gameplay in any way.  Then, the player can choose to exchange gems for gold.

Now, this may not seem like it's any different from buying directly from a black market seller, but it is, for two reasons:

1.  Because the rate of exchange between gems and gold is based on people wanting to sell their in game gold for gems, the in game economy controls the exchange of gold.  Even if your stance is that people should not be allowed to buy gameplay affecting items with real money, and thus never spend money on the game, you affect the exchange rate between gems and gold.  The more people decide they want to buy gems and trade them for gold, the lower the value of gems becomes, and the more expensive gold becomes.  This is different from black market sellers, on whom a person who refuses to buy gold has no influence on.

2.  Purchasing gold via the in game mechanism involves a tax.  This tax has the effect of reducing the amount of gold available in the economy with each transaction.  No such mechanism exists with black market traders.

My personal opinion is that any sort of real-money entering the in game economy will have adverse effects.  That is just a cost of Arena.net's business model, which is very progressive, and which I suspect will replace the subscription based model as the way companies make money off of this sort of business.  However, they have implemented significant checks and balances to protect the economy from the influx of cash, and while protecting it completely is impossible, they've done a pretty good job of keeping things reasonable.  Because gold farmers are under no pressure to do the same, purchasing from them actually hurts the game  a lot more than purchasing from Arena.net.

Edited by Leyana, 09 July 2013 - 12:32 AM.


#2 UNTYPABLExNAME

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:30 PM

View PostSubdue, on 08 July 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

Numerous counter arguments came up that included:

-  Black market sellers are breaking copyright laws.

Well when you're talking about laws, it's really an argument that could go either way.
Spoiler


#3 Mhenlo

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:42 PM

I think it's funny people hate sub games for having a subscription, but then they go out and spend $100 on character slots, transmutation stones, Coxboxes, etc.

Ya, that's real progressive. Instead of getting everything you need for $15 a month and making it fair for everyone, instead we have a game where in order to viably have a shot at getting new things introduced to the game you are best off paying ANet way more than you would have on a sub game.

But people think it is the next best thing since sliced bread. Go figure.

#4 Andemius

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:49 PM

While I think buying gems from anet is stupid, as the money doesn't go back into gw2 it's divvied up however the overlords see fit, I'd not play gw2 if it had a subscription fee.

The only things I spend real money on are char slots. I'm okay with that. I would not buy from an alternative source for any reason. Even if it was vastly cheaper (idk it might be), it's not worth the potential ban/hack risk.

#5 Arewn

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:57 PM

View PostMhenlo, on 08 July 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

I think it's funny people hate sub games for having a subscription, but then they go out and spend $100 on character slots, transmutation stones, Coxboxes, etc.

Ya, that's real progressive. Instead of getting everything you need for $15 a month and making it fair for everyone, instead we have a game where in order to viably have a shot at getting new things introduced to the game you are best off paying ANet way more than you would have on a sub game.

But people think it is the next best thing since sliced bread. Go figure.
It's for the flexibility. You're able to log on and play the game you bought freely (by which I mean without restrictions), and pay extra when you can/want to. You're not forced to fork over the equivalent to a new game's worth of cash(15bucks on steam can go a long way) just to be able to log in for a month.
And since the 'new things' that you have to pay extra for are a minority and only subjectively desirable, it's not a big deal to most people.

You can also consider the fact that you don't get everything you need for $15 a month with certain companies such as Blizzard. Account services, expansions, pets, mounts, and perhaps even boosters soon, all have an extra price tag.

#6 Mhenlo

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:14 PM

View PostArewn, on 08 July 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

It's for the flexibility. You're able to log on and play the game you bought freely (by which I mean without restrictions), and pay extra when you can/want to. You're not forced to fork over the equivalent to a new game's worth of cash(15bucks on steam can go a long way) just to be able to log in for a month.
And since the 'new things' that you have to pay extra for are a minority and only subjectively desirable, it's not a big deal to most people.

You can also consider the fact that you don't get everything you need for $15 a month with certain companies such as Blizzard. Account services, expansions, pets, mounts, and perhaps even boosters soon, all have an extra price tag.

I understand, I just think it is funny as being heralded as this "progressive" way of thinking. In my opinion, it adds too much ability for the developers to take advantage of their players and for the players to eat it up because, "Hey! It's not a subscription!"

#7 sousui

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:16 PM

The argument for gold selling has never been about the rates you receive. It is to what lengths gold sellers go to obtain their gold which MOSTLY involve hacking and stealing accounts, and exploiting the game using teleport hacks and bots. Every one of these no one likes or wants.

Its sort of like, lets says cocain is now legal (ignoring its actual use and effects ;) ), but the gov currently restricts its production and taxes it heavily. Does that mean its still a good idea to turn to your local crack dealer even though his supply comes from factories that force children to work and smuggling that involves people getting killed?

#8 sousui

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:19 PM

View PostAndemius, on 08 July 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

While I think buying gems from anet is stupid, as the money doesn't go back into gw2 it's divvied up however the overlords see fit, I'd not play gw2 if it had a subscription fee.


Why would you think it does not go back to gw2? The whole point of the real money store was for gw2 to make an income while not charging a monthly fee. I can't even fathom how you could think it wasn't going to gw2.

#9 Gerroh

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:22 PM

In GW1 everyone said buying gold was wrong itself. It wasn't about what botters did, it was that there was an influx of gold and that you were essentially cheating your way to victory. Many of the things that were high value and sought after were bought from players, or required ingredients that were bought from players, so one could theoretically pay2win by buying gold.
In GW2, the same thing is going on, but everyone's all "It's okay when Anet does it!", and I don't see why. Everyone says "because it supports the company". Well how about Anet releases cosmetic items worth buying so we can show our support that way? How about Anet makes things worth money instead of having the cash-to-gold system?
How is GW2 not a pay-to-win game when you can go cash → gems → gold + boosters → materials from TP → crafting → level 80 + full exotics? Hell if you had a few thousand dollars to blow, you could even buy a legendary from cash! You can get your top-tier equipment(aside from ascended, which you can't make a full set of yet anyway) and a legendary from cash. As if that's not enough, you can buy boosters and craft/buy consumables to make up for however much you suck at the game.
And yes, things can be done without buying a single gem, but it can be done a lot easier with raw cash.

If you want a progressive business model, look at Valve. They make millions off of purely cosmetic items.(Let's not even take Steam into the equation)
NCSoft's business model(and really, it is NCSoft's, not Anet's) is not progressive. It's pure profit and it's been around for awhile now.

Edited by Gerroh, 08 July 2013 - 07:26 PM.


#10 Mhenlo

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:34 PM

View Postsousui, on 08 July 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

Why would you think it does not go back to gw2? The whole point of the real money store was for gw2 to make an income while not charging a monthly fee. I can't even fathom how you could think it wasn't going to gw2.

It doesn't. It goes to NCSoft. That is a fact. Then NCSoft decides how they want to appropriate the funds, although I am sure there are some contractual obligations where certain amounts may go back to ANet.

This is pretty much business 101.

#11 Mhenlo

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:48 PM

View PostGerroh, on 08 July 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

In GW1 everyone said buying gold was wrong itself. It wasn't about what botters did, it was that there was an influx of gold and that you were essentially cheating your way to victory. Many of the things that were high value and sought after were bought from players, or required ingredients that were bought from players, so one could theoretically pay2win by buying gold.
In GW2, the same thing is going on, but everyone's all "It's okay when Anet does it!", and I don't see why. Everyone says "because it supports the company". Well how about Anet releases cosmetic items worth buying so we can show our support that way? How about Anet makes things worth money instead of having the cash-to-gold system?
How is GW2 not a pay-to-win game when you can go cash → gems → gold + boosters → materials from TP → crafting → level 80 + full exotics? Hell if you had a few thousand dollars to blow, you could even buy a legendary from cash! You can get your top-tier equipment(aside from ascended, which you can't make a full set of yet anyway) and a legendary from cash. As if that's not enough, you can buy boosters and craft/buy consumables to make up for however much you suck at the game.
And yes, things can be done without buying a single gem, but it can be done a lot easier with raw cash.

If you want a progressive business model, look at Valve. They make millions off of purely cosmetic items.(Let's not even take Steam into the equation)
NCSoft's business model(and really, it is NCSoft's, not Anet's) is not progressive. It's pure profit and it's been around for awhile now.

Wish you could have joined our convo here: http://www.guildwars...ay-to-level-80/

Apparently, it's not pay to win because there is no such thing as winning in PvE or you aren't using the term Pay2Win in the correct sense. That's the only two (really bad) arguments against what you are saying.

#12 Dahk

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:37 PM

View PostMhenlo, on 08 July 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

It doesn't. It goes to NCSoft. That is a fact. Then NCSoft decides how they want to appropriate the funds, although I am sure there are some contractual obligations where certain amounts may go back to ANet.

This is pretty much business 101.
You're splitting hairs here.  The money you spend on gems funds the game you play, even if it's not doing so as directly as it may be if GW2 wasn't owned by NCSoft.

The facts are really clear and simple here:
You can put your funds towards a video game company which increase the potential for additional content and longetivity or you can put it in the hands of a middleman that are a financial burden to the creators of the video game you play.  Preventing gold sellers and assisting customers with hacked accounts costs GW2 a LOT of money.

Even if buying gems didn't put a single dollar into the pockets of ANet and GW2, buying gems from anyone else other than GW2 takes money out of their pockets.

Buying gems from anywhere other than the gem store hurts the playerbase and even if you only care about your own personal wellbeing, it screws you over too.  But hey, the temptation of saving a buck today even when it costs you two tomorrow will still win over fools, so I'm sure people will still gloss over this argument anyways.

#13 Eon Lilu

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:54 PM

I do not condone or agree with and never bought gold with real life cash from anyone or any source.

But that being said I have heard players who have bought gold from all sorts of sites on the cheap, bought legendary's, bought loads of different T3 Culture armors, used it for all manner of things in game like commander tags, guild stuff etc.

Even sold the gold cheap to other people in game through paypal. They have not been banned since launch and probably still play now.

They also use it as start up gold for trading and make a fortune.

How do you think players had 6+ legendary's after only a few months of launch? They bought gold not from arena net but from dodgy gold selling websites. Arena Net just could not prove it back then so could not ban them. Even now banning hardly ever happens to gold sellers who work outside the system.

When I asked them why they do this? They said because it's cheaper and there is too much grind and diminishing returns in guild wars 2.

I don't agree with it and I do not see it being worth the risk of your account being banned or worth the money but that's the information I happen to know to be fact from them telling me and seeing them do it.

I don't know if they are even still playing they probably move on to other games since I do not have any contact with them anymore. They told me that the dodgy sites even started giving them discounts because they bought so much gold off of them.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 08 July 2013 - 11:04 PM.


#14 Mhenlo

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:31 PM

View PostDahk, on 08 July 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Even if buying gems didn't put a single dollar into the pockets of ANet and GW2, buying gems from anyone else other than GW2 takes money out of their pockets.

Meh, I couldn't care less about how they make their money. I find that as a consumer, I pay for what I want to pay for and find deals where I want to find deals. I've downloaded copyrighted music and I've ordered NFL jerseys from China to save $200. Ultimately, it's not my problem to worry about how companies make money. It is my job, however, to make sure that I fund my entertainment while also paying my mortgage, car payment, utilities, retirement, college savings account, student loans, etc. etc.

#15 The Shadow

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:38 PM

There is no pay to win in GW2.

Gold is pretty useless and so are gems.

You want to level up faster? Sure, go spend real money on crafting, why not, the option is there. But how the hell are you "winning"? You get to 80 faster, GZ, want a cookie as well as my respekt?

Oh puh-lease.

Edited by Leyana, 09 July 2013 - 12:35 AM.
No


#16 sousui

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:56 PM

Mhenlo, and clearly you don't think more then 2 steps ahead of yourself. Giving money to gold sellers funds their coffers, thus making them more inclined to hack and cheat there way into more gold. Meanwhile this hacking and cheating causes disruptions in the game, nerfing of loot (farm spots and mobs that drop access loot wouldn't be an issue if it was just some players here and there abusing it, its when the massive influx of bots get in on it and a few thousand extra gold to the economy turns into millions.) and overall ruins the economy as well as takes away from anet's focus on the game.

So in short, if you want to fund terrorist, then keep buying gold from 3rd partys.

#17 Dahk

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:33 AM

View PostMhenlo, on 08 July 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Meh, I couldn't care less about how they make their money. I find that as a consumer, I pay for what I want to pay for and find deals where I want to find deals. I've downloaded copyrighted music and I've ordered NFL jerseys from China to save $200. Ultimately, it's not my problem to worry about how companies make money. It is my job, however, to make sure that I fund my entertainment while also paying my mortgage, car payment, utilities, retirement, college savings account, student loans, etc. etc.
But as a consumer, what you don't realize is that you are indirectly shortchanging yourself, both as how your purchases affect your current investments as well as how your attitude affects the consumer climate.

#18 Leyana

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:35 AM

Gonna let this thread run for now. Do try to keep on topic or it will be locked like the old one.

#19 Mhenlo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:42 AM

View Postsousui, on 08 July 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

Mhenlo, and clearly you don't think more then 2 steps ahead of yourself. Giving money to gold sellers funds their coffers, thus making them more inclined to hack and cheat there way into more gold. Meanwhile this hacking and cheating causes disruptions in the game, nerfing of loot (farm spots and mobs that drop access loot wouldn't be an issue if it was just some players here and there abusing it, its when the massive influx of bots get in on it and a few thousand extra gold to the economy turns into millions.) and overall ruins the economy as well as takes away from anet's focus on the game.

So in short, if you want to fund terrorist, then keep buying gold from 3rd partys.

Lol, funding terrorists. Good one. You do realize a ton of crap we buy everyday is from China, which is where gold sellers are. Keep that tin foil hat on. China is not where terrorists reside anyways. Some geography might help your endeavors with that argument.

#20 Mhenlo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:47 AM

View PostDahk, on 09 July 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

But as a consumer, what you don't realize is that you are indirectly shortchanging yourself, both as how your purchases affect your current investments as well as how your attitude affects the consumer climate.

You do realize the profit margins in the things we buy is astronomical right? I paid my $50 for the game. If I want to buy gold I will buy it anywhere I want. Personally, I would rather not buy gold because I think it is wrong to sell it.

As for the rest of the stuff, I think musicians are doing just fine throwing million dollar parties. And the NFL seems to still be a billion dollar business whether I buy my jerseys from them or from somewhere else.

People will find ways to make money, and the ones that don't won't survive. The ones that do, will profit. As a consumer, that's not for me to care about. My job is to find the best quality for the least amount of money without getting in trouble. To suggest that I owe gaming companies my money when I can get it cheaper elsewhere is crazy. Just like saying I should buy a $250 NFL jersey when the one from China is $35 and just as good, well, why would I buy the expensive one?

#21 Trei

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:02 AM

View PostMhenlo, on 09 July 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

Lol, funding terrorists. Good one. You do realize a ton of crap we buy everyday is from China, which is where gold sellers are. Keep that tin foil hat on. China is not where terrorists reside anyways. Some geography might help your endeavors with that argument.
The "terrorist" in his particular context is quite clearly referring to the hackers stealing accounts for gold sellers.

Edited by Trei, 09 July 2013 - 02:06 AM.


#22 Trei

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:18 AM

View PostMhenlo, on 09 July 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:



You do realize the profit margins in the things we buy is astronomical right? I paid my $50 for the game. If I want to buy gold I will buy it anywhere I want. Personally, I would rather not buy gold because I think it is wrong to sell it.

As for the rest of the stuff, I think musicians are doing just fine throwing million dollar parties. And the NFL seems to still be a billion dollar business whether I buy my jerseys from them or from somewhere else.

People will find ways to make money, and the ones that don't won't survive. The ones that do, will profit. As a consumer, that's not for me to care about. My job is to find the best quality for the least amount of money without getting in trouble. To suggest that I owe gaming companies my money when I can get it cheaper elsewhere is crazy. Just like saying I should buy a $250 NFL jersey when the one from China is $35 and just as good, well, why would I buy the expensive one?
Would you still do that they had been killing real people wearing the 250 bucks originals just to get samples to copy, as absurd as this sounds?


#23 Mhenlo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:18 AM

View PostTrei, on 09 July 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

The "terrorist" in his particular context is quite clearly referring to the hackers stealing accounts for gold sellers.

Not for nothing, but if you ever bought an apple product or sneakers from Nike or anything else like that, you are probably supporting some bad stuff too, but I'm sure you are OK with that because it isn't a publicly shameful thing. I mean, hackers are way worse than knowing your $100 sneakers were made by an adolescent for $0.99 cents right?

View PostTrei, on 09 July 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Would you still do that they had been killing real people wearing the 250 bucks originals just to get samples to copy, as absurd as this sounds?

Lol... WTF are you even talking about?

Edited by Leyana, 09 July 2013 - 06:16 AM.
No


#24 MazingerZ

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:54 AM

View PostMhenlo, on 08 July 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Meh, I couldn't care less about how they make their money. I find that as a consumer, I pay for what I want to pay for and find deals where I want to find deals. I've downloaded copyrighted music and I've ordered NFL jerseys from China to save $200. Ultimately, it's not my problem to worry about how companies make money. It is my job, however, to make sure that I fund my entertainment while also paying my mortgage, car payment, utilities, retirement, college savings account, student loans, etc. etc.

To that effect, a lot of piracy actively goes down when there are legitimate alternatives to purchasing the items in different ways.  Steam sales, iTunes and Amazon Music... all far cheaper than purchasing a 60 dollar box or a full CD.  ArenaNet, as de-facto God of the Economy, pretty much controls that market and as well as Big Brother tactics on monitoring people (and to an extent with nerfs, controlling) behavior in the game  (cue Microsoft DRM: It's for your own good!  It's for your own good! </Yahtzee>) it is going to create an effect where people will look beyond the myopic control, if not to save a dollar, then to feel like they have alternatives.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#25 Subdue

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 04:06 AM

The point of this thread isn't to argue whether the availability of gold through out-of-game means (real money).  In an ideal situation, the game would be free, and the economy in game would be a closed environment and everyone would progress through the game without out-of-game help.  However, that situation is simply impossible, as the company must make money to continue financing and driving the game.  What we're left with then are a couple of options.  We could have a subscription based system where in everyone is forced to to support the game at the same rate (WoW).  Or, we can have a microtransaction based system where people have the option to support the game as much or as little as they want (LoL).

Personally, I think the microtransaction based system is vastly superior.  The flexibility of being able to support the company if you want to support the company, to be able to put the game down for periods of time without feeling like you're losing money, these are all good things.

Now the counter-argument to that is this silly notion that the use of gems makes the game "Pay to win".  I'm going to tell you all right now, that is completely bogus.  If anything, attaining end-game gear in GW2 is laughably easy.  Between a trading post that displays full information, uniform stats on end game gear, and the ability to use dungeon tokens to buy those items, how can anyone claim this game is "Pay to win?"  The only things you can't buy in this game are accessories, and well will you look at that, the best accessories in the game can't be bought with gold!  You need to run Fractals to get the backpiece.  You need to run dailies and monthlies to get the jewelry.

No, this game is not "Pay to win," and it never has been.  If anything, it's "Pay to look really damn cool."  And hey, if a "Pay to look really damn cool," is the system we have to play in so that this game doesn't run a subscription, I'm fine with that.

#26 Trei

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:53 AM

View PostMhenlo, on 09 July 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:



Sucks that people are to dumb to not get hacked. If you're going to be a moron and buy gold, you should probably have a good password.

Not for nothing, but if you ever bought an apple product or sneakers from Nike or anything else like that, you are probably supporting some bad stuff too, but I'm sure you are OK with that because it isn't a publicly shameful thing. I mean, hackers are way worse than knowing your $100 sneakers were made by an adolescent for $0.99 cents right?



Lol... WTF are you even talking about?
That's a whole other can O worms debate that can involve ethical dilemmas pertaining to specific countries' legal minimum employment age, which encompasses a lot more than just numbers ie: 14 or 16 years old?

I pointed out the link not exactly as an analogy by the way, just a point of reference readers could consider.

In any case, it is about you as the naysayer, not about any specific item or innovation being condemned.

You are essentially saying since LW does not seem to work to your liking so far, therefore anet will never succeed with this idea.

I look at the potential of the idea, not how it is working now. Objectively I look forward to how anet will learn from their initial implementations and what they can potentially do with it in the next 2 years. And that's a really short time frame already. It may not even happen in gw2's lifetime but it is a pioneer.

The absurd point was to highlight a difference regarding you buying an imitation instead of the pricier original, and third part gold buying: your China product has little impact beyond economic for the original company. It doesn't harm people around you. What if it did?

Third party gold sellers are known to tap into farmers sources that can and do directly harm your fellow players' game experience.

Not to mention, adolescents can be 'professional' gold farmers too.

I do not agree at all with your outlook as a consumer because I find it to be..... nah, you know what? It is not my place to judge your character based on that, not that I need to anyway...

#27 nerfandderf

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:29 AM

The happier the player base is the easier it is for them to buy legit gems/gold.

The more jaded and repressed they feel the greater the chance to buy black market. Now look at the reward system gw2 has?
DR
Loot nerfed to the ground every patch
never ever getting exotics to drop....
RNG
No farming spots.
What I dont understand is why Anet doesnt let you buy from blackmarket and sell like a dice roll RNG if it is a 1/100 your account is banned otherwise you keep the gold. They do RNG for everything else! and they make a little extra

Edited by nerfandderf, 09 July 2013 - 11:36 AM.


#28 Dahk

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:17 PM

View PostMhenlo, on 09 July 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

You do realize the profit margins in the things we buy is astronomical right? I paid my $50 for the game. If I want to buy gold I will buy it anywhere I want. Personally, I would rather not buy gold because I think it is wrong to sell it.

As for the rest of the stuff, I think musicians are doing just fine throwing million dollar parties. And the NFL seems to still be a billion dollar business whether I buy my jerseys from them or from somewhere else.

People will find ways to make money, and the ones that don't won't survive. The ones that do, will profit. As a consumer, that's not for me to care about. My job is to find the best quality for the least amount of money without getting in trouble. To suggest that I owe gaming companies my money when I can get it cheaper elsewhere is crazy. Just like saying I should buy a $250 NFL jersey when the one from China is $35 and just as good, well, why would I buy the expensive one?
^ classic case of accusing others of greed to justify ones own practices.

It doesn't matter what the profit margin of the game is.  The stone cold fact remains: support gold sellers and game developers will continue to need to spend more time and money on preventing gold sellers instead of developing their game.

Look, I get it.  You're upset because you think you deserve more for your money.  Believe that if you think it's right, but don't lie to yourself and allow that perspective to cloud your logic.  Have more self awareness than that.

#29 MazingerZ

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:42 PM

View PostDahk, on 09 July 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

^ classic case of accusing others of greed to justify ones own practices.

It doesn't matter what the profit margin of the game is.  The stone cold fact remains: support gold sellers and game developers will continue to need to spend more time and money on preventing gold sellers instead of developing their game.

Look, I get it.  You're upset because you think you deserve more for your money.  Believe that if you think it's right, but don't lie to yourself and allow that perspective to cloud your logic.  Have more self awareness than that.

What about people who pirated SimCity Online so they could get it to actually work without the multi-player always online BS that was keeping them from playing the game because of EA's crappy servers?

I assume you were, if you played, one of the few  who would just diligently wait for the servers to come online and shrugged their shoulders and went 'oh well.'

Also would love to see your logic on the Microsoft always-online DRM debate as well.

Hail Corporate.

Stone cold fact: Develop a game that can monetize itself better and less obviously without the mechanic for converting gems into gold and vice versa.  Without the ability to convert your cash into gold, you wouldn't need to worry about people buying gold in-game.  If they want to short the grind or 'experience' then that's their prerogative.  The developer just feels he's entitled to that sort of action and therefore installed a method to take advantage of those who engage in those practices and somehow, through the power of fanboism, made the practice legit in where other games it is derided.

Edited by MazingerZ, 09 July 2013 - 01:43 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#30 Mhenlo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostDahk, on 09 July 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

^ classic case of accusing others of greed to justify ones own practices.

It doesn't matter what the profit margin of the game is.  The stone cold fact remains: support gold sellers and game developers will continue to need to spend more time and money on preventing gold sellers instead of developing their game.

Look, I get it.  You're upset because you think you deserve more for your money.  Believe that if you think it's right, but don't lie to yourself and allow that perspective to cloud your logic.  Have more self awareness than that.

No, I don't think you get it. I think that everyone should have the same advantages and not be able to buy them. I think gold selling is reprehensible, but far be it for me to knock someone for getting a deal when the developers themselves are selling gold and everyone thinks it is hunky dory.

NO ONE should be allowed to sell gold. It should be that easy. There are too many ways, as we have already seen, to take advantage of the consumer, and the consumer eats it up because they aren't paying a sub fee.

I'm just saying that I would rather have all people be able to be on equal footing without having to pay money to cash shop. In GW2, those who pay more money have nicer things. That, in my opinion, is asinine.




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