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Permanent account bonuses - Treadmill?

account bonuses exp grind treadmill

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#61 MazingerZ

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:44 PM

I can't agree more. I've played grindy MMO and GW2 is far from it.


Back that claim up with any Western (not a localization) MMO that's grindier than this game.
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#62 Lucav

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:47 PM

Back that claim up with any Western (not a localization) MMO that's grindier than this game.

Everquest

The only grind gw2 has is for aesthetics. Ascended gear is time gated and easily acquired by logging on a few hours a week. You want to grind your butt off to look different? That is fine by me, but its not grinding in the traditional sense of levels and gear that give direct power advantages.
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#63 MazingerZ

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:19 PM

Everquest

The only grind gw2 has is for aesthetics. Ascended gear is time gated and easily acquired by logging on a few hours a week. You want to grind your butt off to look different? That is fine by me, but its not grinding in the traditional sense of levels and gear that give direct power advantages.


Your best example is a game from 15 years ago? Got news for you, my friend... the genre has evolved. If the only Western game that's grindier than GW2 is a game that old, then GW2 is a regression, not a progression from anything between EQ1 and GW2

Edited by MazingerZ, 17 July 2013 - 10:20 PM.

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#64 Feathermoore

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:35 PM

Your best example is a game from 15 years ago? Got news for you, my friend... the genre has evolved. If the only Western game that's grindier than GW2 is a game that old, then GW2 is a regression, not a progression from anything between EQ1 and GW2


UO, DAoC, AC, AO, LotRO, Planetside 2, EQ2, Tabula Rasa (all grind), and I believe Champions Online. I consider WoW to have more grind than GW2 since I have opened my achievement screen/quest screen like.... ten times total.

There are plenty. I haven't played many of the "New Age" MMORPGs so I can't speak to most of them, but there is a huge gap in MMORPG development where the vast majority of new ones are eastern. AAA MMOs don't exactly get released very often, we just happen to be in a period where there has been a quick burst of AAA releases.

Edited by Feathermoore, 17 July 2013 - 10:41 PM.
forgot a few

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#65 Dervo

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:56 PM

I've played gw1, gw2, warhammer online, and a trial of wow... and warhammer online is definitely grindier than gw2, and from what little I played of wow I'd say it's starter area is grindier than gw2's first 20 levels as well... or at least it was about 3-4 years ago. I'd also state that in gw2, lvls 21-79 are less grindy than the first 20 levels (mostly because there's more choices in where to go since it can be quite easy to level in content that's below your own).
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#66 Feathermoore

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:24 PM

I'd also state that in gw2, lvls 21-79 are less grindy than the first 20 levels (mostly because there's more choices in where to go since it can be quite easy to level in content that's below your own).


In my experience it is the exact opposite. Getting past level 40 is just something I can't do on my alts. Pure grind even if I do it in another map. Leveling after release was all fun and games with other people to play with. The level 40-60 areas are wastelands.

But, lets try not to stray too far down the "this game has grind" path as it is starting to derail the thread.

Edited by Feathermoore, 17 July 2013 - 11:25 PM.

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#67 Lucav

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:58 AM

Your best example is a game from 15 years ago? Got news for you, my friend... the genre has evolved. If the only Western game that's grindier than GW2 is a game that old, then GW2 is a regression, not a progression from anything between EQ1 and GW2

I am not sure what you edited out, but you only responded to my example of everquest, and nothing else I said.

Edited by Lucav, 18 July 2013 - 02:02 AM.

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#68 Dervo

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:58 AM

In my experience it is the exact opposite. Getting past level 40 is just something I can't do on my alts. Pure grind even if I do it in another map. Leveling after release was all fun and games with other people to play with. The level 40-60 areas are wastelands.

But, lets try not to stray too far down the "this game has grind" path as it is starting to derail the thread.


Sounds like your server is having issues, or you expect there to be lots of people everywhere. In Stormbluff Isle it seems like there's always at least 2-3 people around when I wander around, and considering they're big maps I'm sure that means there's 10-20 in it at least. Well ok, maps that are far out of the way and/or don't have a lot of easy or quick repeating events may have less than that I'll admit. Anyway, my main point was that you can still use your lvl 20 in queensdale, but you can now use it in kessex too, and if you didn't bother with the personal story you've got more of it to level you up quickly. The only reasons to get frustrated with the leveling process is if you think that having all the hearts means you have to move along or if you think being 3 levels above content means that it'll give you horrible xp (neither are the case).

But yeah, I'll stop this line of discussion now, as long as you don't give me more counterpoints to discuss.

Is there anything more to discuss about the main topic? A few percent in each line doesn't seem like much of a big deal to me, especially since +xp on an older account is basically worthless, +karma already has plenty of other good ways to get it (and isn't too hard to get enough of imo), and we've had +200% gold and mf find boosts in the past and although they were nice, it was never completely game breaking. So basically, I'm thinking "Big deal?".
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#69 Zhaitan

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:06 PM

MF is illusion.
Gold Find won't have any impact in next 6-12 months. We will buy gems and convert them to gold.
Karma gain is a joke. Many people have 1-2M Karma sitting on the account already. For new people, it may make sense to get some boost but, for someone at 7k achievement points, it's LOLWTF fodder.
XP gain. For people who are trying to gain a lot of skillpoints by killing mobs, it makes sense. But, will that unsettle anything? No.

I don't see any treamill here. All I see is another random useless obligatory joke that ANET likes to cut these days.

Sarcasm aside, I like seeing the + signs on my ahievement panel that you "noobs" won't see!

On a more serious note, who cares? Any progression can be viewed as a Treadmill - whether horizontal or vertical. It is a necessity.
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#70 davadude

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:35 PM

Back that claim up with any Western (not a localization) MMO that's grindier than this game.


We can simply look at the same company and say GW1. Grind from start to finish. Or Everquest. Or EVE. Or Planetside. Or Dark Age of Camelot. etc. etc. etc.

The bonuses are almost irrelevant. What I care is the skins or a possible precursor from the 5k achivment points or higher


And this is my exact problem. The bonuses are too little to really offer a significant reason to aim for them. If, for MF, we could be getting 25% per increment, that would be worth playing for.

Seriously, they should just stop this bullcrap, start an Addon immediately that completly revamps skill and combat system, offers a compelling story, remove hearts and rework the eventsystem to be what they originally said it would be.


I hate to break it to you, but I genuinly think Guild Wars 2 is not your type of game. You essentially hate all the core mechanics, save for the story complaint.
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#71 Miragee

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 03:56 PM

Good one. GW1 first of all had fun grind and it was completly optional. You didn't have to grind at all for max armor and most skins. In GW2 you have unfun grind that is not completly optional.

And GW2 is not my type of game, because mmo's are not. GW2 wasn't supposed to be a generic mmo. It was supposed to be a sequel to gw1. But it's a generic mmo and no sequel to gw1.
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#72 NerfHerder

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:55 PM

Pretending that these account bonuses are going to make any significant impact, is like taking a whiz in the ocean, and becoming fearful you'll flood the coast. And even if you do earn more, so what. You worked hard for those achievements and deserve something for it.

In GW2 I can run anything in rare gear(high level fractals excluded), and be just fine. Rare gear can be bought for cheap once you hit level 80. Its basically a T1 equivalent. Try going to any other MMO and taking T1 gear into a T4 area. IDK, 20-30% increase in stats doesnt scream, treadmill.

I never finished GWAMM because I thought it was too grindy. Although I really liked farming for event drops, like undead/raptor/veattir farm. Go figure. Grind is a very subjective thing. Gear treadmills are objective.
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#73 Mhenlo

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:08 PM

Pretending that these account bonuses are going to make any significant impact, is like taking a whiz in the ocean, and becoming fearful you'll flood the coast. And even if you do earn more, so what. You worked hard for those achievements and deserve something for it.

In GW2 I can run anything in rare gear(high level fractals excluded), and be just fine. Rare gear can be bought for cheap once you hit level 80. Its basically a T1 equivalent. Try going to any other MMO and taking T1 gear into a T4 area. IDK, 20-30% increase in stats doesnt scream, treadmill.

I never finished GWAMM because I thought it was too grindy. Although I really liked farming for event drops, like undead/raptor/veattir farm. Go figure. Grind is a very subjective thing. Gear treadmills are objective.


I agree that if it isn't locking you out of content, then it gets around the problem usually associated with power creep which is the problem with gear treadmills. On the flip side, then, why bother having a new tier in the first place? If it isn't going to be very beneficial and if it doesn't help much, then it is fairly useless. Why bother adding useless stuff to the game?
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#74 jcwilsn1

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 03:40 PM

I agree that if it isn't locking you out of content, then it gets around the problem usually associated with power creep which is the problem with gear treadmills. On the flip side, then, why bother having a new tier in the first place? If it isn't going to be very beneficial and if it doesn't help much, then it is fairly useless. Why bother adding useless stuff to the game?


Your logic is flawed, I think.

Does not very beneficial stats-wise necessarily mean that they are fairly useless? Isn't cosmetics kinda important to a pretty big segment of GW2 and to the game in general?

I somewhat agree with your point though. More permanent crafting content has to be created quite carefully as to avoid a host of problems.
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#75 2ndName

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:10 PM

Back that claim up with any Western (not a localization) MMO that's grindier than this game.


This is based on my personal experience. I've spent about 100 hours on Diablo 3, that felt super grindy with the need to use the AH to win. I've played DC Universe Online and that felt super grindy with content far less exciting when I compare it to GW2. I have recently stopped playing Marvel Heroes because you literally grind after beating the story mode and re-run the same few dungeons OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

So there, 3 games that I felt was way grindy compared to GW2. Again, this is based on my personal feeling/thoughts after playing these 4 games.
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