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Confirmed to finally be removing Magic Find from items stats...


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#1 Scizzor

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

Pretty happy about this. I'm tired of having to buy extra armor sets for my chars just for better loot chances. Apparently, magic find is going to be an account stat instead.

News about it here : https://www.guildwar...wars-2-in-2013/

#2 Gerroh

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:55 PM

Good F'in riddance.
Now people can start playing the game and stop counting rares, or such is the hope.

#3 Nyid

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:19 PM

Read a lot of good and promising things. I'm really looking forward to the new item tiers and more frequent crafting material rewards. Should make a lot of things currently in-game significantly more affordable with the new additions rare/difficult to obtain. I especially like the idea of new legendarys coming out in 2013. I'm not a big fan of the current ones.

#4 Darkobra

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:37 PM

Crafting our own precursors is definitely the way forward but this timed content has got to go with the once a day crap.

#5 Saul Spotter

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:37 PM

Its only 'one a day' to prevent people from farming things like CoF.  If you do multpile things you can get many a day.

I wonder what will happen to items with MF stats.  Particularly, I wonder what will happen to the superior sigil of Pirates, and whether I'll be able to justify putting them on my main.

#6 MazingerZ

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:46 PM

View PostSaul Spotter, on 18 July 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Its only 'one a day' to prevent people from farming things like CoF.  If you do multpile things you can get many a day.

I wonder what will happen to items with MF stats.  Particularly, I wonder what will happen to the superior sigil of Pirates, and whether I'll be able to justify putting them on my main.

There are still numerous stat combinations that people want, IIRC.  They could convert the items over to that, but that would be fairly... um... rage-inducing for all the people who built those sets.

I would expect some sort of token exchange so you could trade the gear in and then get equivalent from, say, a WvWvW vendor.

But that would be an overly complex system, so I expect a change in the item DB to be the way of things.  It's got that scent of ham on ArenaNet's fist that we've all come to know and love.

Speaking of which, the reason they're capping it is because it's a cheaper fix than actually addressing the PvE content issues.  But all those guys have been moved on to the whole Cox Box update model.  Hell, we aren't even getting a new dungeon with each LS.

Edited by MazingerZ, 18 July 2013 - 04:48 PM.

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#7 Zhaitan

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:49 PM

Removal of MF - GREAT!
New craft recipes - Good.
Cool downs on crafting - Bad. (AION-clone)

I still don't understand why ANET would introduce gated content in a F2P MMO? What does that buy them? F2P games need a lot of achievable short term goals like what Living Story content provides alongwith cool stuff to buy off gem store. Gem store option is always great for a subset of players that has disposable income (real or ingame). Legendaries are so long term goal that someone with a job, kid and something that resembles life will have hard time to achieve and possibly give up on it. I sure did. More than money, it's about usefulness. It's just a skin <lol>.

#8 ChuyDog08

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:26 PM

I am ok with them removing MF. However, when they drop that bomb they need to provide details. It will upset a lot of people.

I have several sets of armor depending on what I am playing. I use a separate set for PVE/Dungeon, WvW, and farming. I have the typical MF farming set with 5 + 1 superior runes with MF. I also have ascended MF trinket set with a MF back piece. I spent countless hours grinding to get my set. I have farmed for t6 mats to craft the pieces I could, transmuted looks from other item (some were limited skins), and used laurels/guild commendations/badges that take time to acquire.

If they are removing MF (Magic Find), they need to provide a lot more details. Will I be refunded for all my time and costs? Will I get refunded the laurels, guild commendations, and badges? I hope they don't expect to do an armor/trinket exchange program as I don't need another set of armor and trinkets. I have that already. I would accept a MF exchange program. You could be allowed to turn in your MF gear and be allowed to have those stats be permanently applied to your account. They could make a quest out of it. At the end you could be dipped in pool that dissolves all your MF gear, but fuses your account with those MF properties.

Another big worry about MF is the poor drop rate of items without it. They need to adjust their loot tables if they only reduce MF to the stats we are getting with AP rewards. You can't count increase of MF with food, banners, bonfires, and boosters. Any person farming with MF gear will already have those active in addition to their gear. We will go from 167% MF pre boost to 5% MF from Ap rewards (if you’re lucky to have that many AP). This is a big decrease. I don't want this to be an argument to if MF works or not. I use it and think it works. If it is a placebo effect, then I want to retain that false sense of chance.

I like where they are going, but when talking about removing something many people use, they need to provide more information.



Edit: corrects some spelling errors

Edited by ChuyDog08, 18 July 2013 - 05:44 PM.


#9 MazingerZ

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:36 PM

View PostChuyDog08, on 18 July 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

I liek where they are going, but when talking about removing something many people use, they need to provide more information.

So many people support them in blind faith that they can get away with being cagey on the details.  They'll set off a series of small bombs as opposed to one massive one that threatens to organize the community against them.
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#10 Solstice

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:52 PM

View PostChuyDog08, on 18 July 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

[...]If they are removing MF (Magic Find), they need to provide a lot more details. Will I be refunded for all my time and costs? Will I get refunded the laurels, guild commendations, and badges ... [...]

" & transmutation crystals acquired using real money? "

Your sort of implicated that in your previous paragraph, but I thought it worth reemphasising that point. As I stated in my previous post, an indeterminate number of players could feel roughly treated by Arenanet’s planned alterations. :mellow:

Edited by Solstice, 18 July 2013 - 05:56 PM.


#11 Occultus

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:43 PM

Some good news in that list, but I notice a distinct lack of news concerning two-handed axes.

#12 Tevesh

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:16 PM

Quote

Cool downs on crafting - Bad. (AION-clone)

It is there to prevent the items from completely de-valueing, which is especially needed with their global AH environment. This is a mechanic used in most successful mmorpgs, not aion exclusively, and it has proven to be working fine.

#13 Darkobra

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:37 PM

View PostSaul Spotter, on 18 July 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Its only 'one a day' to prevent people from farming things like CoF.  If you do multpile things you can get many a day.

I was speaking of crafting. There's absolutely no reason to keep it like that. Economy? Buy a precursor and tell me how fine the economy is.

#14 madmaxII

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 10:21 PM

About time. I hope the removal of MF happens as soon as possible. This will slightly improve pugs in dungeons.

#15 Valkaire

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 05:25 AM

View PostZhaitan, on 18 July 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Removal of MF - GREAT!
New craft recipes - Good.
Cool downs on crafting - Bad. (AION-clone)

I still don't understand why ANET would introduce gated content in a F2P MMO? What does that buy them? F2P games need a lot of achievable short term goals like what Living Story content provides alongwith cool stuff to buy off gem store. Gem store option is always great for a subset of players that has disposable income (real or ingame). Legendaries are so long term goal that someone with a job, kid and something that resembles life will have hard time to achieve and possibly give up on it. I sure did. More than money, it's about usefulness. It's just a skin <lol>.

Pretty sure WoW had that before Aion >_> lol...

Also what part of what they've said signal gated content? Pretty much the only gated content in GW2 is having to do storymode dungeons to gain access to explorable, but even that can be bypassed.

Edited by Valkaire, 19 July 2013 - 05:26 AM.


#16 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 05:50 AM

View PostTevesh, on 18 July 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

It is there to prevent the items from completely de-valueing, which is especially needed with their global AH environment. This is a mechanic used in most successful mmorpgs, not aion exclusively, and it has proven to be working fine.

Based on my understanding, these items will be used to craft a new tier of power gear. (By "power", I don't mean the game's stat, I mean gear that is better than the gear of lower tiers.)
Is GW2 a game where power plateau gear should have value? Should it be difficult to obtain and should players be excluded from it?

#17 Valkaire

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:08 AM

View PostRitualist, on 19 July 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Based on my understanding, these items will be used to craft a new tier of power gear. (By "power", I don't mean the game's stat, I mean gear that is better than the gear of lower tiers.)
Is GW2 a game where power plateau gear should have value? Should it be difficult to obtain and should players be excluded from it?

Except if you had read the blog crafting won't be the only way to acquire these ascended items.  

Quote

These weapons and armor will also be able to be found as rare drops from locations in the world.

Nothing is changing from how ascended is right now. You just have another option of getting it for yourself (kind of like how you can get rings from both fractals + laurels).


Imo, crafters have been shafted enough. With crafting itself having little value besides being used as a way to gain experience quickly/needed to create gifts for legendaries. I can't think of any game besides GW2 where crafting has been nothing but a goldsink. I was proud of getting master crafter in the first few months of release, when the rest of my guild had barely maxed one. I remembered how important crafting was in WoW and was excited to get started on something in the same line. What I found was that I was pretty much useless. I could buy/find things cheaper than I could make them and the skins were all so lackluster that there was no point in doing it for aesthetic reasons. I couldn't sell them on the TP without losing money.

Hallelujah, my crafting can finally be useful.

Edited by Valkaire, 19 July 2013 - 06:09 AM.


#18 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:18 AM

View PostValkaire, on 19 July 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Except if you had read the blog crafting won't be the only way to acquire these ascended items.  [/size][/font][/color]
Nothing is changing from how ascended is right now. You just have another option of getting it for yourself (kind of like how you can get rings from both fractals + laurels).


Imo, crafters have been shafted enough. With crafting itself having little value besides being used as a way to gain experience quickly/needed to create gifts for legendaries. I can't think of any game besides GW2 where crafting has been nothing but a goldsink. I was proud of getting master crafter in the first few months of release, when the rest of my guild had barely maxed one. I remembered how important crafting was in WoW and was excited to get started on something in the same line. What I found was that I was pretty much useless. I could buy/find things cheaper than I could make them and the skins were all so lackluster that there was no point to do it for aesthetic reason. I couldn't sell them on the TP without losing money.

Hallelujah, my crafting can finally be useful.

Ascended gear is a random drop with "random" stats. Which means you not only need to get lucky to get it, you need to get lucky to get the stats you want. And it's account bound.
Once again, why is a hard to obtain power plateau good for GW2?


Now, don't get me wrong, as much as I hate crafting, it's an absolute shame that it's so useless. But the problem is that A.Net is now trying to make crafting useful by breaking other parts of the game in return.



EDIT:
Wait, why is this in the MF thread?

#19 Valkaire

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:25 AM

View PostRitualist, on 19 July 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

Ascended gear is a random drop with "random" stats. Which means you not only need to get lucky to get it, you need to get lucky to get the stats you want. And it's account bound.
Once again, why is a hard to obtain power plateau good for GW2?


Now, don't get me wrong, as much as I hate crafting, it's an absolute shame that it's so useless. But the problem is that A.Net is now trying to make crafting useful by breaking other parts of the game in return.



EDIT:
Wait, why is this in the MF thread?


Because Zhaitan. I will now slink back into my hole. Dang Orrians.

Last on topic: I don't think this will break the game. Ascended increases are minimal. The only point where they're a necessity in PvE is high level fractals. In fact, I would much prefer having proper runes/gems to having infusions.

As long as they keep the infusion system to fractals, I'm fine with it.

Edit: Also, why are you against crafting ascended items if that would make them easier to obtain? Kind of confused by your points.

Edited by Valkaire, 19 July 2013 - 07:51 AM.


#20 dondarrion

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:36 AM

View PostChuyDog08, on 18 July 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

If they are removing MF (Magic Find), they need to provide a lot more details. Will I be refunded for all my time and costs? Will I get refunded the laurels, guild commendations, and badges?

No, of course not. You're playing Anet's game, they're free to develop and nurture it in the direction they see fit, and based on the feedback, removal of MF and now making it an account-wide bonus will be very well received, I think. But to ask for refund of your time and costs - come on, are you even serious?

If you bought the T3 cultural armor and they finally succumbed to cutting the price in half, would you ask for a refund?

You've accomplished a lot already if you bought all those sets and have had that big "dresser" of various stat armor, and that's been an achievement on its own in the game. Use a BL salvage kit on your mf gear and get some ectos in return, that's probably the biggest refund you'll get.

Am for one very glad they are removing MF - it's about high time they did! Then I can finally get rid of my MF set and focus on only the stat sets... and if what they said about legendaries coming with customizable stats in a future update, I really hope they add legendary armor too so that I can grind towards that... oh, one armor set you can just switch stats on... utopia! :D (but a lot of horrible grinding too)

#21 Castaa

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:55 AM

I'm having trouble imagining how they remove the MF stat without making the gear/runes/etc worthless or near worthless and upsetting a lot of people that worked hard to acquire said gear.  Maybe salvaged MF gear yields a new special material?  Or a special Mystic Forge use for it.

And why on earth would they release all the Quartz/Celestial gear, all with MF, in the last update only to remove it in the near future.

Edited by Castaa, 19 July 2013 - 07:00 AM.


#22 Solstice

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 08:33 AM

View PostCastaa, on 19 July 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

[...] And why on earth would they release all the Quartz/Celestial gear, all with MF, in the last update only to remove it in the near future.

This might sound petty but this annoys me the most for the simple reason I spent 2-3 gold on recipes for full armour set just 24 hours before this announcement. However I am probably in a better position than others who have likely spent laurels, commendations etc. on magic find items in recent weeks.

Nevertheless, while I recognise I sound totally selfish, gold acquisition for me is never easy as I tend to do random suboptimal stuff in GW2. So this just feels like a secondary kick in the balls on top of the real money I spent on transmutation crystals now invalidated via the announcement of ascended armour & weapons.

Edited by Solstice, 19 July 2013 - 08:33 AM.


#23 Mastruq

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 08:57 AM

I welcome the removal of MF from the itemization stat pool. Obviously its a big hurdle but their determination to see that through instead of ignoring it is a good sign imo. It's a step to reduce player conflict instead of improving profits, we need more of that.

#24 beadnbutter32

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:31 AM

With all the Anet talk of recompensing current MF gear holders, it might be a good time to invest in a full set of rare MF gear or exotic if your rolling in dough and simply bank it so you get the permanent stats added later.

#25 OneMoreLevel

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:11 PM

View Postdondarrion, on 19 July 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

No, of course not. You're playing Anet's game, they're free to develop and nurture it in the direction they see fit, and based on the feedback, removal of MF and now making it an account-wide bonus will be very well received, I think. But to ask for refund of your time and costs - come on, are you even serious?

If you bought the T3 cultural armor and they finally succumbed to cutting the price in half, would you ask for a refund?

You've accomplished a lot already if you bought all those sets and have had that big "dresser" of various stat armor, and that's been an achievement on its own in the game. Use a BL salvage kit on your mf gear and get some ectos in return, that's probably the biggest refund you'll get.

Am for one very glad they are removing MF - it's about high time they did! Then I can finally get rid of my MF set and focus on only the stat sets... and if what they said about legendaries coming with customizable stats in a future update, I really hope they add legendary armor too so that I can grind towards that... oh, one armor set you can just switch stats on... utopia! :D (but a lot of horrible grinding too)

"If you bought the T3 cultural armor and they finally succumbed to cutting the price in half, would you ask for a refund?"

"Lowering price of an item ≠ removing an item/disabling said function of an item." If the price of T3 gets lowered, it would still be in game, and it will still work as it always has, so there would be no reason to ask for a refund.


it's reasonable for MF users to ask for some kind of refund or compensation on their items, and anet already said they would compensate, but no idea what that will be.There is also the issue with people who have used transmutation crystals to customize the looks of their MF armor, and who used one time or limited skins on MF gear.

Of course anet can do whatever they want, they can delete all of your characters, or strip your character if they want as well, doesn't mean it's always a good call.

Edited by OneMoreLevel, 20 July 2013 - 06:09 PM.


#26 madmaxII

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:29 PM

You could argue that owners of MF gear already got their compensation just be reaping the rewards of using it.

Anyways, I don't know what your problem is. They have said that you will get something in return, no need to complain as long as you don't even know what you will get. Maybe you can just pick new stats for your MF gear.

#27 MazingerZ

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:40 PM

View PostmadmaxII, on 19 July 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

You could argue that owners of MF gear already got their compensation just be reaping the rewards of using it.

Anyways, I don't know what your problem is. They have said that you will get something in return, no need to complain as long as you don't even know what you will get. Maybe you can just pick new stats for your MF gear.

Obviously to put out there that there is no small amount of the community that bought into Magic Find because that's how you played the game, and while ArenaNet has made a little noise about Magic Find in the past, there's been no indication of how they would deal with it, to give players proper direction to prepare for the change.  To completely invalidate the investment in gear is a bit harsh.  It basically means no actions you take in the game are safe and subject to the whims of the developer.  Voicing a concern that the compensation for such an action had better be worthwhile is important if you want to even hope for results.
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#28 Eon Lilu

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:40 PM

Im guessing people will buy loads of magic find sets now hoping to get rewards for it later.

#29 madmaxII

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:54 PM

View PostMazingerZ, on 19 July 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Obviously to put out there that there is no small amount of the community that bought into Magic Find because that's how you played the game, and while ArenaNet has made a little noise about Magic Find in the past, there's been no indication of how they would deal with it, to give players proper direction to prepare for the change.  To completely invalidate the investment in gear is a bit harsh.  It basically means no actions you take in the game are safe and subject to the whims of the developer.  Voicing a concern that the compensation for such an action had better be worthwhile is important if you want to even hope for results.

As I have said above it wouldn't be a total lose as you still have the better drops you got by using MF gear. And for whatever it's worth I think it is very unlikely that they have planned to just remove the gear in the first place. My point was that there is no reason to complain before you even know what they intend to do next. Also, we know that they are not happy with the state of MF for some time now, so there is no reason to argue that this announcement comes out of nowhere.

#30 Tevesh

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 05:26 PM

View PostRitualist, on 19 July 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Based on my understanding, these items will be used to craft a new tier of power gear. (By "power", I don't mean the game's stat, I mean gear that is better than the gear of lower tiers.)
Is GW2 a game where power plateau gear should have value? Should it be difficult to obtain and should players be excluded from it?

What you suggest means instead of making the gear really accessible will just remove one of the options for making money to obtain it. The only way, I should say, since they are nerfing magic find across the board, and nerfing instance farming too.




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