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[Looking Ahead Discussion] PvE Reward Restructuring


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#1 MazingerZ

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:03 PM

In an effort to keep the noise down over discussing the various points hit upon by Colin's most recent post, I've taken the time to create different threads in the General Discussion forums to cover the different aspects.  The overall point is that there's just so many points he hit upon, it's very easy for the original news post to have several conversations going on about the different points.  This is for organizational purposes, as people will want to comment on each point and having an in-depth discussion and analysis will create Wall o' Texts.  The Magic Find changes were already posted and can be found here.

This covers the follow content in the post...

Champion Rewards

Champions in the game will be updated so each will always drop a guaranteed reward box for any player that qualifies for a reward from the boss. This chest will contain things like crafting materials, skill points, unique skins, lodestones, and more. This change will make champions more rewarding, and will make playing in Orr and Southsun Cove (where events can scale up to add champions) more exciting and fruitful for guilds and players joining together in the open world.

...

Dungeon Complete Bonus Rewards

In order to make playing all of our unique dungeons more rewarding, we’ll give you a bonus gold reward for each dungeon path you complete each day. Coins will be removed from the current bosses (replaced by the champion reward box listed above) to coincide with this bonus payout for completing each path. Completion rewards will be guaranteed, and we’ll vary the amount of gold earned based on difficulty and length of each dungeon path.

To encourage players to participate in a wider array of dungeon content, we’ve designed the system so if you complete the same dungeon path twice in one day, you’ll receive the normal reward for completion, but won’t receive the bonus gold reward again during that day.

Edited by MazingerZ, 18 July 2013 - 08:25 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#2 Zhaitan

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:40 PM

Champion Rewards -
Combined with the proposed dungeon changes the rewards will ensure that no one will have any reason to zone anywhere other than the Labyrinthine Cliffs. All champs will be camped and killed instantly as they spawn in the known easily accesible spots. Then the loot will change to per account 5 champs a day or something. <lol>


Dungeon changes -
This will curb down COF P1 type gold farming. But, the intent is really to make ingame gold more scare.

ANET needs to convince themselves first that they make great team-based action RPGs and suck at open world MMOs. And then they need to convince their NC counterpart that what works in Korea fails in the West and that's why NC's western market cap is dwindling.

Edited by Neo Nugget, 20 July 2013 - 09:16 PM.


#3 EphraimGlass

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:58 PM

I remain skeptical of any plan to change the reward structure of dungeons.  I consider it part of the problem that players are tackling dungeons not because it's a consistently challenging, entertaining component of the game, but rather because of the rewards.  Too many of the people want only to attempt the easiest path and employ the most risk-averse methods to get the maximum payout.  Changing the reward structure doesn't address that mindset; it only changes which paths and which methods will be most popular six months down the road.  I know that they won't ever get rid of that reason for playing, nor should they.  I'd appreciate it, however, if they invested some effort into making the gameplay itself more enjoyable.  I personally think it's fine (largely because I've only ever completed a single dungeon explorable path, so they're still novel to me.)  I want them to nudge the balance, though, so that there are more people interested in attempting a diversity of paths with novel methods.

#4 Guardian of the Light

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:51 PM

I think it was well-estimated that CoF-path 1 gold farming was going to get nerfed eventually, it was only a matter of how. Now if what they say is true and they're able to scale rewards based on difficulty and length of the dungeon, this SHOULD make it so Arah is worth doing and becomes the primary farm center for player who can do it..... should. Worst case scenario we find a new dungeon path to farm over and over again.

As for the comment about Anet restricting the amount of gold in the economy..... well your right but honestly that's a good thing believe it or not. This reminds me of the time griffon farming was nerfed in Guild war 1, people were complaining about not getting high-end items because they didn't have enough gold (like myself at the time) only for smarter people to inform that that high-end items are so damn expensive because the player-made economy was introducing a lot of gold into it thus driving up prices. Same idea here.

Overall I'll be looking to see how this gets implemented but we'll see how things pan out. At the very least it'll change the hot farming spot to somewhere else, I'm so sick of CoF.

#5 Omega X

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:51 PM

Some of those champions are already swamped (especially in Queensdale), giving them more rewards might just make those fights even more crowded.

#6 Castaa

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:42 AM

The rewards should scale based on how long the champ has been up.  To prevent farming and encourage players to seek out of the way champs.

Edited by Castaa, 19 July 2013 - 01:11 PM.


#7 MazingerZ

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:52 AM

View PostOmega X, on 18 July 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

Some of those champions are already swamped (especially in Queensdale), giving them more rewards might just make those fights even more crowded.

Logic dictates that if it becomes a problem, they'll adjust rewards based on the area the champion spawns, forcing higher level players out of those zones into places that drop better loop, ultimately making their down-ranking system totally obsolete beyond World Exploration.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#8 Calypso589

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:13 AM

View PostMazingerZ, on 19 July 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Logic dictates that if it becomes a problem, they'll adjust rewards based on the area the champion spawns, forcing higher level players out of those zones into places that drop better loop, ultimately making their down-ranking system totally obsolete beyond World Exploration.

yeah but they won't do that. It's logical in one sense but in the sense that they want you to be able to pick up relevant loot from anywhere no matter what level.......it's decidedly illogical.

The rewards aren't going to be so amazing that the troll in Queensdale is going to see player participation on the same level of the claw of jormag. Cmon now. lol

#9 davadude

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:31 AM

I think it's a sincere pity that they are focusing their efforts on creating rewards for champions, rather than introducting interesting and unique meta events with bosses to each zone.  Creating meta-events would largely increase activity throughout the game, rather than simply creating more activity in already bustling zones.
Davadude - Guru Village Idiot

#10 MazingerZ

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:52 AM

View PostCalypso589, on 19 July 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:



yeah but they won't do that. It's logical in one sense but in the sense that they want you to be able to pick up relevant loot from anywhere no matter what level.......it's decidedly illogical.

The rewards aren't going to be so amazing that the troll in Queensdale is going to see player participation on the same level of the claw of jormag. Cmon now. lol

How do you know?  He doesn't have the same opportunity for loot as any of the other meta event bosses, so until his loot is adjusted, you don't know.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#11 Featherman

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 03:16 AM

More rewards to chase. They're nice for those enjoying the game, but I couldn't care less about them personally. What's the point of rewards pasting rewards all over a game if the game itself wasn't already engaging me enough to play it?

Edited by Featherman, 19 July 2013 - 03:16 AM.


#12 Mastruq

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 09:07 AM

View PostCastaa, on 19 July 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

The rewards should scale based on how long the champ has been up.  To prevent farming and encouraging players to seek out, out of the way champs.

Sounds good, it encourages exploration. I like it.

#13 P4ndora

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 10:13 AM

View PostCastaa, on 19 July 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

The rewards should scale based on how long the champ has been up.  To prevent farming and encouraging players to seek out, out of the way champs.

That would be awesome. Sadly, I think to prevent players spawnkilling well-known champions (in Queensdale, for example) all day long, anet will just limit these rewards to once per day per account... anet likes dailies....

#14 Red Intensity

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:54 AM

So basically:
  • dungeons are gonna be even less rewarding than they already are (still no point in negotiating the hell that is Arah p4)
  • gold is gonna get scarcer and NCsoft/Nexon are trying to strong-arm people to buy gold
  • they wanna funnel people to Orr and Southsun Cove to fight champion bosses with cheap skills

Edited by Neo Nugget, 20 July 2013 - 09:05 PM.
Off topic.


#15 MazingerZ

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:55 PM

So it looks like we're about 2 weeks into this mess, and the current discussion seems to be splitting the community on whether or not to reward farming.  The new loot additions have lead to things like

1. failing events to force champion respawns

2. repetitive farming of frequently spawning champions in places like Gendarren

3. Nerfing of content that can be repetitively farmed, like Deadeye in the Queen's Jubilee.

Tho I think the latter is a bit different than your standard PvE affair, it won't take long before the meta settles to which champions to focus on for the best time vs reward return.

And an overall debate about rewarding repetitive actions in the game (farming), because a subset of the player base deems it not-fun versus a sub-set that wants to farm and wants to be rewarded for engaging in such actions.

This kind of goes back to the debate when all these loot changes were first announced that ArenaNet seems to not get it, that they're not rewarding their players enough for pursuing diverse content, for making intrinsically rewarding content, and  instead constantly attack methods for generating money.

This will get interesting, as they will probably have to either start heavily pushing DR on champion farming, adjust spawn rates on champions (and thus probably ruining the flow of events) or completely change event structures so that they require more effort to be rewarding (probably the most expensive option for them, and then of course raising the question again of whether ArenaNet is adequately rewarding the time invested to the rewards given).
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#16 Leyana

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:04 AM

"You are free to do as we tell you" -Bill Hicks.

So much for the game will reward you for playing the way you want to.

#17 lmaonade

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:25 AM

they should give everyone free precursors, we'll never farm again!

#18 Inraged Twitch

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:32 AM

View Postlmaonade, on 15 August 2013 - 12:25 AM, said:

they should give everyone free precursors, we'll never farm again!

No what they should do is have the automated weekend events like they did in GW1 but have the scavenger hunt for pre'c in a new zone each weekend along with one other buff like XP or magic find boost or something.




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