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Staff- overrated?

staff overrated

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#1 Minion

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:18 PM

Staff in PvE (dungeons) is incredibly overrated. It's slow, clunky, poor auto-attack, low damage and overly defensive. Why do so many <3 it?

Discuss.
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#2 Brandon the Don

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:27 PM

Staff has a cool edgy effect <3

...

I usually use it on swap because I am running a condition build... That means I literally almost never use it, the reasons above are pretty much why...

... no wait, I also use it to kite, that chill certainly helps... other than that, I cannot name a reason to use it...
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#3 SpelignErrir

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:32 PM

Since scepter has terrible Life Force generation, I can see why conditionmancers use it. The AoE condition transfer can also be occasionally useful in places like CM where your group gets a lot of bleed stacks.

I can't see why a powermancer would use it, though, Axe and Dagger have great LF generation.
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#4 Nash

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:52 PM

Since scepter has terrible Life Force generation, I can see why conditionmancers use it. The AoE condition transfer can also be occasionally useful in places like CM where your group gets a lot of bleed stacks.

I can't see why a powermancer would use it, though, Axe and Dagger have great LF generation.

^This. If you run a condition build it provides low cd AoE Bleed+Regen for the Party, AoE Freeze, AoE Condition Remove with a Blast Finisher included, AoE Fear and better life force generate than scepter.

Yepp, may be it's not the max. efficient. Yepp, there are more 1337 r0xx0r builds for PvE than Conditionmancers. Yet you simply can't meassure fun nor with witch playstyle ppl feel comfy with :P

And since it's all about looks anyway- there are some nice staff skins out there ;)

Edited by Nash, 14 August 2013 - 05:54 PM.

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#5 Minion

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

One of the "excuses" I got for it's use is the AoE capability of the conditions. Well, you have epidemic for that, which is far more potent when you focus conditions on one enemy.
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#6 Nash

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:12 PM

Hate to quote myself, but it seems you just pick out the parts you wanna see, so I'm gonna highlight the things that you can not spread with epidemic at all:

^This. If you run a condition build it provides low cd AoE Bleed+Regen for the Party, AoE Freeze, AoE Condition Remove with a Blast Finisher included, AoE Fear and better life force generate than scepter.

For condition spreading only, focusing one target and spread it with epidemic is superior, still I don't see anything wrong in swaping to staff in between for some party support while epidemic is on recharge.
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#7 Brandon the Don

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:38 AM

Hate to quote myself, but it seems you just pick out the parts you wanna see, so I'm gonna highlight the things that you can not spread with epidemic at all:

For condition spreading only, focusing one target and spread it with epidemic is superior, still I don't see anything wrong in swaping to staff in between for some party support while epidemic is on recharge.


I think, don't know for sure, that the point Minion is trying to make is that people use the staff as a main weapon, when for any build, the staff is likely better as a secondary on swap... Scepter/Dagger can provide the needed conditions, and triggering epidemic for AoE makes the staff kind of useless as your main weapon...

And with this you kind of agree, you said that there is nothing wrong with swapping to staff, thus you basically say you don't use it as a main weapon as well... at least, I think ._.
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#8 Nash

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:57 AM

OP should clarify this. I understood it in a way of "staff suxx, why does anyone ever use it, especially in dungeons", though i admitt it can be understood in the way you point it out.

Still i considerit it quite usefull at the start of an encounter. I usually start of with Staff 2 & 3, in case of fire fields a blast with 4 in it, weapon swap start focusing one target with scepter/dagger, spread it with Epidemic and then depending on the situation (does my team need Regen, Cond Remove, are there firefields -> Staff) either swaping back to staff or jump into DS for some extra dmg (which it's more efficient when having swaped to staff anyway).
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#9 AsgarZigel

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:23 PM

Yeah, it's clearly a secondary weapon, it's for utility, not damage. The auto attack pretty much sucks, but the marks are pretty decent, giving you extra bleeds, regen, poison, chill and a blast finisher + condition removal. The 1200 range can also be nice to open up the fight with a quick 2,3,4 combo. It just gives a bit of support.

What it really comes down to: What else are you gonna use as a secondary set with a condition build? The other weapons seem very power focused. Maybe Axe/Focus for Vuln stacking?
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#10 Ship Soo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:41 PM

I love my staff ! (no Freudian comments please)

My condition mancer traits both greater marks and staff cooldowns. When I switch from scepter/dagger, the aoe skills pummel large groups. chill, poison, bleed, FEAR (amazing), plus #4 is a double blast finisher. Used with #3 its a double helping of area weakness.

I can take on huge mobs, solo, that my warrior would just keel over and die from.

Epidemic is cool but I would rather take a well or blood is power. Also epidemic is useless on champions/bosses etc

Staff is a-mazing for conditions
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#11 takarazuka

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:56 PM

Staff has been, and always will be unless they completely change how it works, a support utility weapon not meant for your standard weapon during encounters. Use it to throw down conditions for AOE or trigger combos, and then switch back to your primary weapon of choice depending on build. If someone is using the staff as a primary damage weapon, then they are just using it wrong :)

Another reason people may be using staff a lot, and I do this some as well, is that some fights are not melee friendly at all and you HAVE to go range. If you are a dagger powermancer this is basically your only choice. Running in and out of combat range you can switch to staff and keep attacking. Axe builds have a little range on them, but it may not be enough so staff is an option as well.
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#12 NerfHerder

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:29 AM

I use dagger(axe)/focus and staff. Even though I consider dagger or axe my main weapon, I spend just as much time using staff. I front load with staff and wells, and either finish them with dagger or switch to DS. And of course, use it to kite. DS lasts so long, with the appropriate builds, by the time its worn off, staff and wells are off cooldown. Then rotate. A good deal of the time they die before I even get into dagger range. Just to play devils advocate, if someone wasn't paying much attention, it may appear that I was using staff as my main, when i'm not.

I'm not advocating using staff as a main weapon, although I think a case can be made for a support minion master. Why anyone would want to take an MM into a dungeon is a different matter all together.
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#13 Archon_Wing

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 09:18 AM

Minionmancers are good with staff, due to the support that makes minions last longer.

But power necros benefit from use of staff when in Death Shroud. Staff has the highest possible attack value for a necro and its autoattack is irrelevant when you're in DS. It especially shines in Soul Reaping builds when Near to Death is taken and you can literally spam DS with just a few staff autoattacks building just enough life force.

Edited by Archon_Wing, 20 August 2013 - 09:21 AM.

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#14 Phenn

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:58 PM

But power necros benefit from use of staff when in Death Shroud. Staff has the highest possible attack value for a necro and its autoattack is irrelevant when you're in DS. It especially shines in Soul Reaping builds when Near to Death is taken and you can literally spam DS with just a few staff autoattacks building just enough life force.


This was true prior to 6/25, but with the changes to Axe Training, properly-traited Axe is now the highest hitter for DS builds. The 10% damage increase translates directly to DS (affecting the DS skill's actual output, not increasing their base damage vis-a-vis Axe). Additionally, there are far faster ways now to build LF than Staff AA. In fact, I designed a build entirely around the DS mechanic and hyper-fast LF-generation. Works better than it should.

Edited by Phenn, 20 August 2013 - 03:58 PM.

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#15 Feathermoore

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:12 PM

Another reason people may be using staff a lot, and I do this some as well, is that some fights are not melee friendly at all and you HAVE to go range. If you are a dagger powermancer this is basically your only choice. Running in and out of combat range you can switch to staff and keep attacking. Axe builds have a little range on them, but it may not be enough so staff is an option as well.


This is what I use staff for. I mainly run dagger and there are times where I just look at the fight and go "Yup, I am not going in there" and switch to staff in order to pop off a few marks or keep recharging my LF.
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#16 Captain Bulldozer

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:28 PM

Staff has range, support, AoE fear and perhaps most importantly, a built in combo giving AoE Weakness. Is it the highest for DPS? No, don't be silly. Is it useful to bring along for the AoE weakness by itself in a dungeon? Yes, don't be silly.

Try this out next time you think staff is worthless: Staff 3 followed by staff 4 on a bunched up mob, followed by Spectral Wall (or even better, well of suffering with a traited Ritual of Protection). Now said mob has -50% dmg, your group has 33% dmg mitigation on top of that plus more. It's worth taking a staff just for this combo imo.
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#17 Archon_Wing

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:17 PM

This was true prior to 6/25, but with the changes to Axe Training, properly-traited Axe is now the highest hitter for DS builds. The 10% damage increase translates directly to DS (affecting the DS skill's actual output, not increasing their base damage vis-a-vis Axe). Additionally, there are far faster ways now to build LF than Staff AA. In fact, I designed a build entirely around the DS mechanic and hyper-fast LF-generation. Works better than it should.


It does affect DS damage? Guess I'll have to take a look.
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