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The Shield - Pointless?

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#1 Averath

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:00 PM

I've been browsing the GW2 forums lately, and I'm actually a little disappointed that no builds utilize the shield. I understand that DPS is paramount in GW2, but the 'knight in shining armor' archetype in fantasy is usually associated with a one-handed weapon and a shield, which doesn't outright yell "TANK!" in the traditional MMO sense.

So, my question is: Is the shield in this game worthless? Have ANet completely abandoned the weapon as a tank-only weapon in a game with no tank? Is there any build that could actually use it?
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#2 AMonkeyCourier

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:03 PM

It's great for certain applications in PvP, though its uses in PvE carry too high an opportunity cost over the focus. It's essentially useless for PvE.

It's still a very useful defensive force muliplier in teamfight/zerg situations though.

Edited by AMonkeyCourier, 12 September 2013 - 09:04 PM.

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#3 Westwater

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:21 PM

I pair shield with my scepter usually. Sword/focus and scepter/shield is my usual setup when I'm not using a GS. I guess torch would be a better option in some cases to pair with scepter, since 4 can do some pretty good burst damage but I like having the shield for positioning with it's 5.

Edited by Westwater, 12 September 2013 - 09:22 PM.

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#4 Averath

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:32 PM

It's great for certain applications in PvP, though its uses in PvE carry too high an opportunity cost over the focus. It's essentially useless for PvE.

It's still a very useful defensive force muliplier in teamfight/zerg situations though.


Makes me quite sad, as I'm not all that interested in PvP. I've always loved the sword and board style of play. I kind of wish they had different types of shields, then maybe they'd give us one that was useful in PvE.
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#5 Swarfega

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:37 AM

It needs drastic changes to make it viable.
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#6 Cake is Cake

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:58 AM

Its actually pretty similar to focus, its just more pvp focused in general. You can run a shield over any build that uses a focus and it'll still work, the difference is minimal
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#7 Illein

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:47 AM

The only time I really like to use the shield is in the Harpy Fractal for the Kitten Robots at the end, if my group lacks reflect-abilities. Other than that, it's just inferior to the focus in almost every other situation I could think of right now.

Unfortunately, the legendary shield would look absolutely banging on a Guardian :(
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#8 Satenia

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:46 PM

The focus has arguably the better skills for PvE-usage, but you won't likely break a build by picking the shield over focus.

Personally, I went style over substance (Flameseekers Prophecies) without regrets. As it is with most weapon and skill choices, just switch them out if you really need the extra advantage under certain circumstances.
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#9 AMonkeyCourier

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:10 PM

You actually deny yourself a LOT of melee uptime against certain enemies by using the shield over the focus. Don't pretend that the gameplay impact is minimal.
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#10 guanlongwucaii

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:44 PM

if you use the shield please don't be that moron knocking things out of melee range. it's a lot worse than focus imo (no vuln stacking, no blast finisher, no big burst deeps), the only thing that the shield has going for it is the looks. I have to admit that I get kind of scared when I see PUG sword/shield (or god forbid mace/shield) guardians, though that's just a bias of mine. I have been seeing more guardians running some garbage clerics mace/shield build though...
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#11 lmaonade

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:17 PM

shield is okay for bosses with massive amounts of projectiles and if your group doesn't have enough reflect to keep it at bay, but 95% of the time for PvE you'll want to use the focus
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#12 George3009

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:10 PM

What do you guys think should be a nice build for running dungeons with sword and shield as main? It would be nice if it was more dmg oriented as I'm full zerker with scholar runes
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#13 Craywulf

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:44 PM

It needs drastic changes to make it viable.

I kinda think the Shield should come with an extra dodges depending on the profession that equips it. Give the Guardian 3.5 dodges, give the Warrior 3 dodges and the Engineer get 4 dodges.

If not that, then create a trait for shields that give professions more dodges.
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#14 ZCKS

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:50 PM

It needs drastic changes to make it viable.


This ^.

The only time the shield is ever woth it is in fractals, specially the harp one

I kinda think the Shield should come with an extra dodges depending on the profession that equips it. Give the Guardian 3.5 dodges, give the Warrior 3 dodges and the Engineer get 4 dodges.

If not that, then create a trait for shields that give professions more dodges.


IDK about that ^, maybe they could have a trait that causes the shield to grant AEGIS to nearby allies when a guardian uses a shield ability.

That would make it great.

For the engineer & warrior shield is decent though in some builds. (could always be better though)
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#15 Craywulf

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:00 PM

This ^.

The only time the shield is ever woth it is in fractals, specially the harp one


IDK about that ^, maybe they could have a trait that causes the shield to grant AEGIS to nearby allies when a guardian uses a shield ability.

That would make it great.

For the engineer & warrior shield is decent though in some builds. (could always be better though)

Aegis for the shield is definitely a good idea for the Guardian.
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#16 ZCKS

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:31 PM

Aegis for the shield is definitely a good idea for the Guardian.


Ya, I've been wondering since beta why guardian is the only shield using class that doesn't have a block ability on it.

And before anybody says it, no shield of absorbsion doesn't count, it only absorbs direct projectile attacks (ground targeted crap still gets through.)
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#17 Craywulf

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:41 AM

Ya, I've been wondering since beta why guardian is the only shield using class that doesn't have a block ability on it.

And before anybody says it, no shield of absorbsion doesn't count, it only absorbs direct projectile attacks (ground targeted crap still gets through.)

If it blocked ground targeted attacks then it would be overpowered because it could not be countered. So something has to get through. Besides the Guardian has more than enough healing to not have to worry about blocking everything.
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#18 Illein

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:56 AM

In my opinion the worst thing about the shield is the fact that the Shield of Absorption roots you in place. It looks bloody awesome but if I think of Bloomhunger, I remember times when we'd stack right in front of him and throw everything at him that we've got while we reflected his abilities. Now, I used the Shield #5 and despite hammering escape I couldn't get out of the ♥♥♥♥ing red circle that spawned beneath me while I used it and hit me.

It's just extremely unhelpful to be rooted in place a lot of times, especially when you need something like an absorb or reflect. It would maybe be a lot more useful if for the 4 seconds it's up, it also works like a circle of warding, not letting people enter it for the time of its duration or simply as others have said, work as a complete 4 second block for the guardian only while the shield is up and one is crouched down.
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#19 lalangamena

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:33 AM

my opinion on making the shield viable is either remove the root, make the guardian able to move and attack with the shield (5) for the whole four seconds,
or make the bubble stationary like today but also add block and reflect for these four seconds.

as even the traited CD is very high it will not be OP.
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#20 Bantay

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:18 PM

What I wish is that focus 5 would have been shield 5
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#21 Ship Soo

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 01:44 PM

my opinion on making the shield viable is either remove the root, make the guardian able to move and attack with the shield (5) for the whole four seconds,
or make the bubble stationary like today but also add block and reflect for these four seconds.


I love this idea !

I too am a little disappointed in the shield skills. I only use them for messing around in open world zerg fests.

Anything serious and the shield goes away in favor of GS/hammer or GS/staff.

Shields do have some great artwork though.
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#22 XRay

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:09 PM

Imo the protection granted by shield 4 should last longer than 4 seconds the the cd of the skill should be at least 10 sec lower. No one freaking wants 3 sec of protection at a 30 second cooldown.

And shield 5 is garbage with a beatiful animation. At least for pve. My choice would be to change shield 5 to a reflect only and move the knockback effect to the detonate chain as replacement of the ever so pathetic heal. That way the pvp aspect of the shield wouldn't be gimped and we would still have a decent reflect in pve.
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#23 Illein

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:39 PM

Well, you never know when they'll make support builds actually viable, I guess if the regen and the direct heal of both its skills are something you don't snuff at any more - it could become more viable as a part of one's weapon set.
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#24 G L J

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 10:08 PM

Imo the protection granted by shield 4 should last longer than 4 seconds the the cd of the skill should be at least 10 sec lower. No one freaking wants 3 sec of protection at a 30 second cooldown.


Shield of Judgment only gives 3 seconds in Spvp, for PvE and WvW the skill gives 5 seconds of protection. But IMHO the low protection duration isn't the big problem with the skill. The problem is that in dungeons it can be very difficult to actually hit your teammates with the cone of protection. Unless you're in a full melee group you're only going to be hitting 1-2 teammates and in wvw if you're rushing into the zergs headlong you're not going to hit any teammates with the protection at all.

It's clunky that the team buff is a cone effect instead of a party buff. The skill has a lot of subtle power but it's difficult to use right. If the protection skill was an AoE while the damage was a cone it would be a lot more user friendly and powerful.

If I could redesign the skill, I'd leave the protection duration the same - and then either pair protection+retaliation to affected allies (if leaving it in a cone) or a combination of protection+weakness (if making the protection a pbaoe).

~~~

As for the shield 5 skill, don't even get me started. It's crap in a lot of fractals because the damn bubble doesn't stop half their attacks. The heal is unnoticeable and the skill roots you in place unable to make any actions. The only real reason to use it is to knock enemies back in wvw.

Edited by G L J, 25 September 2013 - 10:11 PM.

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#25 AzureRogue

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 02:04 AM

Yea, the shield feels pretty damn useless in PvE - which sucks because I also like the sword&board appearance and I want to pair Bolt with Flameseeker Prophecies but I just can justify making that shield for my guardian :(

Also the shield 5 animation is really cool - I only wish it's affects followed with its appearance.
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#26 ZCKS

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:25 AM

Shield of Judgment only gives 3 seconds in Spvp, for PvE and WvW the skill gives 5 seconds of protection. But IMHO the low protection duration isn't the big problem with the skill. The problem is that in dungeons it can be very difficult to actually hit your teammates with the cone of protection. Unless you're in a full melee group you're only going to be hitting 1-2 teammates and in wvw if you're rushing into the zergs headlong you're not going to hit any teammates with the protection at all.


This ^.

The only time the cone protection wave actually tends to be good is when I'm doing ranged attacks with the scepter/shield.

Frankly I think they should change the shield to the following

#1: Make Shield of Judgment into an AOE knock back centered upon the caster with say ah 250-350 unit radius that also gives all allies within the radius 5s of protection. Then put it on a 25 second cool down.

#2: Get rid of Shield of Absorbsion, instead make it give everyone within a 400 unit radius AEGIS for 10 seconds & light enemies within the radius on fire for 1-3 seconds. Then give it a 30-35 second cool down.

Then wolla its shortcomings are solved & it's still good for the few fractals where it's actually useful.

Edited by ZCKS, 29 September 2013 - 08:26 AM.

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#27 Archon_Wing

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:01 PM

In larger group zerg situations, shield is better because group protection > several blocks when you're dealing with massive incoming damage. Of course the only place where this matters in wvw.

The mistake here is trying to use a sword with a shield, as they have like no synergy. The knockback is bad with a melee weapon. Focus has far better panic buttons. The focus block adds more damage when you melee. Wall of Reflect is much more reliable than the dome thingy.So shield doesn't suck; it just sucks with melee weapons, but in pve, melee reigns supreme.

Using a scepter with a shield is far better. The knockback actually matters because you don't melee with a scepter.

The other thing is that the shield offers a small amount of armor which of course doesn't matter, but it does in wvw.

Edited by Archon_Wing, 30 September 2013 - 07:04 PM.

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#28 Zhaitan

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:15 PM

Zodiac Sword and Shield. Scepters and Focus can kiss my a$$.

Looks rulez!

Ok. Reality is that shield skills need to be revisited. Shield skills should have some kind of daze or knockback effects. If I bash you w/ my shield you will be knocked back and wonder "what the heck did just hit me" aka dazed. If its Flameseeker prophies or zodiac shield (just coz I have one), daze will last one additional second because you will be dazed by their looks as well. :)
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