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Tequatl and Stupidity.


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#1 Capped

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:26 AM

Im fed up. Im fed up with people moaning, crying, complaining or boasting, claiming and bragging about how Tequatl requires "so much co-ordination" and "everything must be organised!" to the point of disgust (long story.)

Why? Because. It. Doesnt. It is a fight with extremely simple mechanics split into two. Why do people fail all the time? Because they are bad and that has a multiplied effect on the fight because of how many people there are.

What happens in 95% of tequatl fights:
-People tag and afk.
-People tag, die and don't respawn.
-People dont DPS tequatl
-People don't res downed
-People don't avoid aoe.
-Turrets arent used properly.

The whole fight is simple, requires no organisation and would be faceroll if people were anywhere close to competent. You dont need organisation, you need to play correctly. The ONLY organisation i see is stacking for turret buffs, which is somewhat useful. Thats nothing. "Stack together near teq" - people comply - done. You dont need voice comms.

Here is a standard list of things you should be doing in the three locations you're expected in.

1) On tequatl.
-DPSing boss from range.
-Avoiding AoE (Poisons SHOULD be quickly cleared from you by turrets which just leaves the wave)
-Perhaps stacking (depending, optional.)

2) On a turret.
-Using 2-skill off cooldown provided he has stacks. (always.)
-Spamming 1 on tequatl.
-Using 3 whenever you see a poison cloud remotely close to a group of players.
-Using 4-5 whenever you can be bothered on a large group of players. (Pretty much optional)
-Never attacking anything other then tequatl.

3) Defending a turret.
-Killing shit.
-Repairing BEFORE they explode -_-

Doing all these things results in winning. You dont need organisation, you dont need voice comms, you dont need ascended gear, you need a brain.

As you can see 1 and 3 are things you should be used to already. DPS, avoid aoe, maybe stand in a specific spot, simple. 2 is a bit different but an easy mechanic, focus tequatl, press 1 and 2, use 3 on green clouds 4-5 on groups if u want. NOT. HARD.

-----

Im fed up with people talking crap about how you need to organise the whole server, no you dont. AFk'ers and taggers make up for alot of a standard attempt, this scales tequatl to ridiculous levels with a bunch of afk people not compensating for it. Then you have people on turrets NOT doing the simple mechanics required for the fight to go well. Then you have everyone leaving downed / dead players and not ressing, along with nobody avoiding the aoe.

Seriously, how can people cry about needing organisation and communication when its as simple as this? Pull your heads out of the sand people. You dont need to organise the entire server on voicecomms with perfect movement and precision, jesus stop using that as a brag tool or to compensate for your inept-ness

#2 Omega X

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:02 AM

Sounds ironic.

#3 dzanikken

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:23 AM

Sounds like something I could totally agree with.

Brain kills Tequatl, stupidity fails it.

#4 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:36 AM

To the OP !

Yeah people are guilty !!! Down with people !!! (sarcasm off)

Now let me try and explain why this new fight is HARD, first it`s designed to be done in certain way that engages a lot of people, a lot of people specially random ones makes chaos and from chaos there is no coordination !

This is the main reason why open world bosses should be straight DPS shootouts and not coordinated stuff, this kind of well organized content should be set in dungeons or guild missions (where everyone will have same goal, plus the communication) !!!

So stop your angry QQ and blame Anet for this mess not the people who play, even the ones that know what`s going on are somewhat crippled by ridiculous 11-15 FPS, everybody knew game suffers from serious lag issues and yet we got even more content that requires 100+ people on the same place, really (good move) ?

It is interesting how elitist "dudes" keyboard & mouse heroes start QQ and who`s the blame, random players, noobs.......right...?
Let me give you idea if you the elite lot was left alone on the server.....you could turn off chat completely because your "charming" personality would do it`s thing !!!

So STOP blaming people for being there and not being able to do more and turn your eyebrow up on real guilty party here !!!

#5 The_Poison

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:00 AM

View PostAlex Dimitri, on 21 September 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

To the OP !

Yeah people are guilty !!! Down with people !!! (sarcasm off)

Now let me try and explain why this new fight is HARD, first it`s designed to be done in certain way that engages a lot of people, a lot of people specially random ones makes chaos and from chaos there is no coordination !

This is the main reason why open world bosses should be straight DPS shootouts and not coordinated stuff, this kind of well organized content should be set in dungeons or guild missions (where everyone will have same goal, plus the communication) !!!

So stop your angry QQ and blame Anet for this mess not the people who play, even the ones that know what`s going on are somewhat crippled by ridiculous 11-15 FPS, everybody knew game suffers from serious lag issues and yet we got even more content that requires 100+ people on the same place, really (good move) ?

It is interesting how elitist "dudes" keyboard & mouse heroes start QQ and who`s the blame, random players, noobs.......right...?
Let me give you idea if you the elite lot was left alone on the server.....you could turn off chat completely because your "charming" personality would do it`s thing !!!

So STOP blaming people for being there and not being able to do more and turn your eyebrow up on real guilty party here !!!

Maybe the OP could have said it a bit friendlier, but he's kinda right. He's not being elitist, he is actually giving people, who don't know what they're doing, GOOD ADVICE.
As for blaming Anet. Why would we blame Anet? This event is quite easy if people don't screw up and for the FPS issues; I have 60+ FPS anywhere. ''Not everyone wants to spend 1500$ on a pc just to play this game'' --> This might be true, but you have to see it like this: Let's say you want to buy a car, okay? Well then it would be very weird if you would blame the cardealers that you need a driver's license to drive in that car. It's an odd comparison, but really you should see the game as the car and your pc as the driver's license.

#6 shanaeri rynale

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:30 AM

The primary issue is, is that the encounter is tuned with the tolerances of a Raid instance but its in the open world with all the out of a players control variables that entails. Stuff like:
  • AFK players
  • Greifers
  • People levelling/looking for clues and scaling the event
  • The overflow system splitting teams up, imprisoning players in a zone for hours in case they cant get back in etc
All of these can have significant impact on the success of the event while being nothing to do with learning the mechanics. The fight doesn't need to be nerfed, or changed it just needs putting in an instance where player ability and coordination are the success factors, not blind luck.

It's great Anet tried something different, but it has too many downsides to be called a fun experience imho

Edited by shanaeri rynale, 21 September 2013 - 10:33 AM.


#7 Skyward

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:33 AM

The main problem is the server limit. Too many players are not participating the event. Either because they are got online early and are afk on the wrong moment, or playing elsewhere on the map. This prevents people who are active to join, so they get in the overvlow (which virtually means you stand no chance at all). Than we have people trying to ress those who are afk, losing valuable time.

#8 Eon Lilu

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:36 AM

OP is right it's stupidly easy and does not require much coordination. Just a repeated cycle of things you need to do and if everyone knows how to do each cycle it's very very easy.

The only thing that makes it more difficult and really is just a restriction put in place by arena net to give the illusion of difficulty because again they failed to give a challenge through actual game design or just playing, is the time limit restriction, the uber health bars and the amount of players needed for damage and defense....that's pretty much it.

Which kind of defeats the point of what they were trying to do, you could be amazing at the new teq event, do exactly everything correct with the group you have but because you lack numbers, you lack damage and fail because of lack of numbers and the time restriction...you did everything correct but you still fail the event because of those artificial limitations put in place by arena net which are just lazy mechanics....again.

Then add the extremely terrible overflow and guesting system they still have not addressed where you can't even play with your own server because your stuck in que for hours in overflows because of people guesting to your server. Waiting 30mins-1 hour sometimes just to play the content....not fun.

Completed it once and will probably not do it again, meh rewards, not worth the time waiting and too easy. Plus time restrictions and player limits make it more about that then any sort of actual decent challenge, just another example of poor lazy content.

View Postshanaeri rynale, on 21 September 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

  • AFK players
  • Greifers
  • People levelling/looking for clues and scaling the event
  • The overflow system splitting teams up, imprisoning players in a zone for hours in case they cant get back in etc


Agreed, so many issues and still be to be addressed problems since launch with this kind of content. Overflow system and guesting is terrible at the moment.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 21 September 2013 - 10:41 AM.


#9 shanaeri rynale

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 01:02 PM

A quick quote from the now infamous manifesto by Mike O'Brian

Quote

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

Having spent many, many hours seemingly in server jail waiting to finally get my sunbringer title the bolded bit is exactly how I feel. It made me spend hours and hours preparing to have fun, rather than doing having it.

It's great it's got servers co-operating, but that cooperation plus is almost wiped out by the frustration of stuff the players just cannot control or have to wait up to 90 mins for.

It seems, so rapid now is the pace of development scant thought is given as to how the content will work within the community. The little 15% of polish that makes trying and doing the events a lot more pleasurable(note I didn't say easier)

For example, halving the spawn time if a TQ event fails. Give us pre-events to do so that completing them spawns him, and allows us plenty of notice for when he comes. If you're going to have it open world then give us the players the tools to manage that open world as best we can. From overflows to afk'ers if you are going to make this the new raiding it has to be way slicker, not feel as though you are fighting the game's limitations at every step to get it done.

Edited by shanaeri rynale, 21 September 2013 - 01:08 PM.


#10 beadnbutter32

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 01:15 PM

I think it's hilarious the number of self appointed 'experts' that are surfacing, especially on worlds that have yet to beat Teq, who blame other players, seem to think they know it all, claim that voice chat is for babies, commanders don't help, and generally spout nonsense to the effect that if only everyone was as good as these QQers think they are, they would steamroll the event with time to spare.

By the way they talk they sound like players who's experience is totally limited to farming champions and the old style world bosses where mindless zerg skill 1 spamming and occasionally dodging red circles was all you needed to know.

There has been a stream of them in HOD LA map chat the last few nights. (HOD has yet to succeed with Teq)

Saw one the other night who claimed that if he could only clone himself, that 5 of him could take care of guarding all the turrets and another five could focus Teq down.

Great popcorn fare.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 21 September 2013 - 01:23 PM.


#11 Swoopeh

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:13 PM

Wish they could add some tech to boot AFKers like in PvP but only when you participate in the event. And some tech that automatically releases dead players to the nearest WP after 30 seconds. And I'm sure they can up the amount of people per server before you get put on an overflow. Even overflows would be able to do it if people weren't so utterly clueless or lazy. The amount of people who just lie somewhere dead in loads of poison clouds asking for a res and will remain there until the end of the fight rather than run back makes me rage a little.

#12 Castaa

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:15 PM

This is why large open world boss fights such as this are a bad idea.  And why instanced raiding is and has been the standard for 10 years now.

It's a design failure in part because most everything in open world is like a 3 in difficulty and this is a 10.  The reason so many are afk and taggers is because their design decisions encourage it.

1. Don't make participation a daily achievement
2. Make the retry period after a failed attempt 5 minutes, not an hour
3. Forcing players to turn off models for performance reasons and not giving them an ability to see who is down vs. who is dead is a design failure

I feel the Frost & Flame dungeon boss fight was a much better example of how to make things somewhat challenging but not enraging or discouraging half the player base.  Also note that fight had none of the issues I've outlined.

#13 Andemius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:47 PM

If anyone's to blade for stupidity around here it's Anet. I can't see how they didn't expect problems with co-ordinating vast numbers of (more than likely) randoms.

To my knowledge deso has completed this a few times, unfortunately I wasn't able to be there when we did and the best I've been present for is 1% health left.

Things that make this fail are:
  • Turrent Incompetence - If you choose to man a turret, know what your job is.
  • Dead players not releasing - If you die, release and run back. By sitting dead you're just distracting the alive players from people who are only downed or making them waste warbanners on your dead ass.
  • Lack of numbers/AFKers - This needs doing something about. I think if the timer was reduced, and players were kicked from the area when the event starts if they've been afk for 10mins. A message telling you you're gonna be kicked in 50 seconds would be good, in case you're just typing.
So, I wouldn't say it's easy. Not because Teq is crazy OP, but because it requires mass co-ordination from a large group who likely as not are not co-ordinated in the slightest.

As to it not requiring co-ordination, whoever did it first (was it blackgate?) said that they had 100+ people using Voice Comms. I wonder why they were first.

#14 Haggus

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:09 PM

Anet forgot about the reason players loved heroes in Guild Wars: PUGs stink.

If you have a large boss, it DOES take coordination.  The second poster hit it on the head when he said the OP was irony.  You said it needed no coordination, then bust out with the things that need to be done right to win.  Guess what?  You are dealing with a bunch of random players in an event.  50-100 or so people aren't usually all on the same page.  Hell, the 5-man dungeons are a PITA if you have one person who isn't on the same page.  

For me, the bigger thing is, I, as most people do, play the game for fun.  Most people's idea of fun in an MMO is not having to grind away at an event 20-30 times, or having to coordinate military-scale telecommunications just to beat a Boss.  That is ludicrous.  If I can't beat an event with a group after, say, four or five times, and few others can, it needs adjusting.  That isn't a challenge: that's just power scaling, which is lazy developing.

#15 Kattar

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:24 PM

We don't allow rant threads here.

Thanks.

You are fooling yourself, user. Nothing here is what it seems. ANet is not the plucky hero, Guru is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena.



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