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Now, how do you feel about the Living Story? (11/13/13)


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#1 ChuyDog08

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:37 PM

I think I will begin this thread every LS patch to get feedback from everyone.

My opinion...

Hopefully the LS is coming to an end.  The releases are becoming more lackluster with each patch.  The artwork is outstanding, but the gameplay is boring.  I wonder how long it took the developers to design this patch to only be beaten by players in one night?

Their idea of new challenge is to closely group stronger enemies with pull/push capabilities and add more condition damage.  This just makes players run through them instead of fighting.  Did they learn nothing from the original Cursed Shore configurations?  I feel bad for lower level or weaker players.  I have a Guardian speced for WvW.  I was able to keep the conditions off myself and my team.  I tried to revive random downed players, but after a while it was too much effort.  We were done with the tower in less than an hour.  I will not go back in.  To me it was no fun.

The only thing I hope is Anet realized a while back that the LS is not going well, so they scaled back the development a little until they were able to bring it to a close.  They were probably too far into the development cycle to cut it off any earlier.  If not, we are all in trouble.

At this rate, WvW is the only thing keeping me in the game while I hope for PVE to get a new direction.   The developers are pissing me off because they put the LS crap in WvW.  Now we have to fight around it in there.  I say fight around because nobody is closing the toxic growth things.  It shows how disconnected they are with WvW players also.  You usually don't have time in WvW to kill the LS crap because you're constantly watching your back.  Also, the rewards are so minimal for doing that in WvW that the large groups just run past.  This is because most players are more worried about defending, reclaiming your third, or expanding your reign.

How do you feel about all of this?

#2 cyclopsje

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:54 PM

Every week i go like this could be fun and then BAM after 1 day i go like meh. If the consider this a replacement for expension i am out with next decent mmo

#3 christiansoldier

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 06:30 PM

I enjoy the living stories.  My only complaint is they come out too often.  Once a month or every 6 weeks would be better. It seems I spend the primary part of my play time doing the living stories.

#4 Zhaitan

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 06:53 PM

Living Story concept seems to be vital for ANET's micro-transaction based revenue generation model. With this model NC/ANET can offer Living Story themed merchandise every two weeks on the gem store. Many players gobble them up either thru real money transactions or thru Gold->Gem conversions. As the offerings are temporary there is always a rush to get the limited time merchandise before it vanishes. Oh-la-la for even more cashflow. I'd say, living story concept is here to stay till NC/ANET find out a better revenue generation model.

That said, putting Living Story components in WvW is plain stupid.

#5 StormDragonZ

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 06:57 PM

View Postchristiansoldier, on 13 November 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

I enjoy the living stories.  My only complaint is they come out too often.  Once a month or every 6 weeks would be better. It seems I spend the primary part of my play time doing the living stories.

Instead of one every two weeks, it should be 2-3 every 40-65 days so people have a big variety to choose from. Instead of one single spot in the world being changed, things all over could change.

#6 Castaa

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:26 PM

TBH, I'm warming to the living stories every 2 weeks.  I probably would have stopped playing since I don't play WvW and to be frank,  gearing up isn't very good in GW2.

IMO, this current one is interesting and a bit of a challenge.  It's my favorite so far.

#7 Jentari

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:34 PM

View PostCastaa, on 13 November 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

TBH, I'm warming to the living stories every 2 weeks.  I probably would have stopped playing since I don't play WvW and to be frank,  gearing up isn't very good in GW2.

IMO, this current one is interesting and a bit of a challenge.  It's my favorite so far.

Interesting?  I guess needing to zerg to get through the levels is interesting.

Challenge?  Yes it is a challenge in the levels but all instanced content is very easy to solo.

It is really time to stop the every 2 weeks living story.  Make it 1 a month so they have more time to work on them.

#8 Castaa

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:41 PM

View PostJentari, on 13 November 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Interesting?  I guess needing to zerg to get through the levels is interesting.

Challenge?  Yes it is a challenge in the levels but all instanced content is very easy to solo.

It is really time to stop the every 2 weeks living story.  Make it 1 a month so they have more time to work on them.

You can't really solo to the chambers.  You need to group.

#9 d_fens

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:00 PM

View PostCastaa, on 13 November 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

You can't really solo to the chambers.  You need to group.
Huh? 5 regular mobs in 1st room, a veteran and a regular mob in 2nd room and a veteran in final room. What exactly cannot be soloed in there?

#10 HELLruler

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:25 PM

I agree with you that LS is becoming more and more boring. I played them all, and still don't understand it. I was enjoying at first, Braham and Rox could be really helpful later, or at least more important than say, Logan - who was at great part of your story, and I still think he makes no difference

But things got really odd: karka island? Ok, we needed to do something with Southsun, but could use the pieces of story we had already. Braham and Rox could make it a place for refugees.
Queen's Jubilee was interesting, celebrate the game birthday. And bam, Scarlet appears out of nowhere with machines we never heard of, and now toxic alliance

I think that the tower could've been added with the last LS so we have more stuff to do :/


Another terrible thing is the zerg-based stuff. They are throwing more and more zerg stuff for us, and that's stupid. "Play the game how you want" is being used a lot, but I can't finish the LS without zerging around to get a bit of achievements

#11 Cebbar

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:28 PM

View Postchristiansoldier, on 13 November 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

I enjoy the living stories.  My only complaint is they come out too often.  Once a month or every 6 weeks would be better. It seems I spend the primary part of my play time doing the living stories.

I have mixed feelings about the spacing of the Living Story.  On the one hand, if they only came out every 4-6 weeks then the world wouldn't feel too living to me.  As it stands, minimal hype builds for a week and then after the first day of the new patch everyone rushes the content to get the achievements/rewards ASAP and never looks back.

My compromise would be:  Monthly living story updates as we saw with Flame and Frost.  Faster paced story progression; F&F was horribly slow given it was coming out monthly.  I'd also like to see teasers included, at very regular intervals in game; you know how we saw the trees being cut down in Kessex Hills a week before the previous patch?  Small teasers at a higher frequency.

All of this aside.  I've lost a lot of faith in the Living Story as a whole.  I want to see more of the world.  I want to go to other places we've been to in GW1.  Maybe it's greedy of me, but I can't help it, the most enjoyment I get out of this game is the exploring - even if it's for my 8th world completion.  I really wonder if an expansion isn't going to end up being the far better option in the long run.

Looking at the current patch, however.  For me, it's the best I've seen in a few months.  I love the tower.  I find it sad that many people just run to the top.  I put it down to the "trash mobs - just run" dungeon mentality.  The problem being that players such as myself, whilst capable of and willing to kill our way up, find ourselves constantly being trained by people far too lazy to.  More often than not I see those people dead further on.  I enjoy poking around the tower, killing stuff, even clearing out the instances multiple times.  I've been up there several times on several alts thus far and am surprised to find myself not yet bored of it.  Perhaps it would help to quench players' thirst for loot if you could earn tokens as you play your way up the tower to trade in for Dreamthistle skins?  Y'know, just like regular dungeons in a way.  A part of me rather hates ArenaNet for backtracking on the fantastic idea of dungeon tokens in favour of RNG/GemStore Only loot.

I feel the Living Story has made people too reward focused.  So many times I've seen something akin to "wait, I have to do HOW MUCH to get that reward?".  Perhaps players no longer play for the love of the game, or for the joy of playing.  They simply want to get to the end as fast as possible such that they can say they've seen it all and then complain about the lack of content, or rather the content that doesn't please them.  Don't get me wrong, I'd make a lot of changes if I could...but I have to wonder if the apparent failure of the Living Story isn't partly down to the (mindset of the) players, as well as ArenaNet.

#12 Jentari

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:38 PM

View PostCastaa, on 13 November 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

You can't really solo to the chambers.  You need to group.

I know.  I was committing that the instances could be done solo but then route to get to them needs a group.

#13 Cebbar

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:39 PM

View PostHELLruler, on 13 November 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Another terrible thing is the zerg-based stuff. They are throwing more and more zerg stuff for us, and that's stupid. "Play the game how you want" is being used a lot, but I can't finish the LS without zerging around to get a bit of achievements

I don't like the massive zergs either,  Thing is, this ties back in with player mentality again.  Everyone just wants to join the zerg as it will get you through "faster".  I don't generally like following the PvEZerg, so I go my own way.  As you ascend this tower you can split off easily, I've seen a lot of zergs fragment into smaller, more enjoyable groups.  Given the patch is only a day old now though, naturally, most people have their achievements done and have gone. "No champion train means no reason to be there", right?  I had more fun playing through the tower today than I did the first day due to how less zergy it was.  I suppose it might die to the extent that the group events are too difficult to progress through, but we shall see.  It would be a shame if that happened.  If you look at the tower as an open world dungeon, I think they did well...but that's just me.

I'm probably unique.

#14 Skyward

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:44 PM

View PostZhaitan, on 13 November 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Living Story concept seems to be vital for ANET's micro-transaction based revenue generation model. With this model NC/ANET can offer Living Story themed merchandise every two weeks on the gem store. Many players gobble them up either thru real money transactions or thru Gold->Gem conversions. As the offerings are temporary there is always a rush to get the limited time merchandise before it vanishes. Oh-la-la for even more cashflow. I'd say, living story concept is here to stay till NC/ANET find out a better revenue generation model.

That said, putting Living Story components in WvW is plain stupid.

Nah, they can bring out the same gemshop stuff and much more without the living story, so that's not the issue. Just renew the LS once in 6 weeks and advertise new -not LS related items- in the gem-store, and you have a merchandizing model that works and satisfied players who don't have to rush every 2 weeks...

Edited by Skyward, 13 November 2013 - 11:44 PM.


#15 Zabrielx

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:45 PM

I feel like LS is too slow. Its really boring getting one small portion of the story every 2 weeks. If they could pack their content every month and have us experience LS through "chapters" every month, then i could come to like LS. But now, The patches seem to be getting smaller and smaller. :(

#16 Cebbar

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:48 PM

View PostZhaitan, on 13 November 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

That said, putting Living Story components in WvW is plain stupid.

Haha!  That is indeed true.  I wouldn't be in favour of it anyway, but from a story perspective it poses the question:  "Just how far does Scarlet's influence reach?"

#17 Azure Skye

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:49 PM

View PostHELLruler, on 13 November 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

I agree with you that LS is becoming more and more boring. I played them all, and still don't understand it. I was enjoying at first, Braham and Rox could be really helpful later, or at least more important than say, Logan - who was at great part of your story, and I still think he makes no difference

But things got really odd: karka island? Ok, we needed to do something with Southsun, but could use the pieces of story we had already. Braham and Rox could make it a place for refugees.
Queen's Jubilee was interesting, celebrate the game birthday. And bam, Scarlet appears out of nowhere with machines we never heard of, and now toxic alliance

I think that the tower could've been added with the last LS so we have more stuff to do :/


Another terrible thing is the zerg-based stuff. They are throwing more and more zerg stuff for us, and that's stupid. "Play the game how you want" is being used a lot, but I can't finish the LS without zerging around to get a bit of achievements
This LS is a zerg buster, the plant grenades and brawler are the zerg buster in this LS. You can do everything by yourself from the chambers to the boss. If you have determination to do it and dodge almost everything, the events are choke points that you need people to do it.  GOD, i hate the plant grenades and brawler, they're the pain in the ass but i still loved it.

Edited by Azure Skye, 14 November 2013 - 01:21 AM.


#18 Jentari

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:50 PM

View PostCebbar, on 13 November 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:


....

I feel the Living Story has made people too reward focused.  So many times I've seen something akin to "wait, I have to do HOW MUCH to get that reward?".  Perhaps players no longer play for the love of the game, or for the joy of playing.  They simply want to get to the end as fast as possible such that they can say they've seen it all and then complain about the lack of content, or rather the content that doesn't please them.  Don't get me wrong, I'd make a lot of changes if I could...but I have to wonder if the apparent failure of the Living Story isn't partly down to the (mindset of the) players, as well as ArenaNet.

I do think that there is some people who are on the reward focus of the living stories and have or should I say don't want to deal with fighting in those areas.  I think Anet made a mistake in basically requiring a group to get through the levels but allow you to solo all of the instances.

So did the players really cause Anet to go the route of doing the 2 weeks events?  Maybe.  It is know that after you get your world completion, run all of the dungeons in both modes, done the fractals, then really all you have is WvW and SPvP and if you are not a PvP person then those areas will not attract you.  I do think that a portion of the player base has spoken up asking for new content and by the speed that players got to 80 and did everything else to include getting a legendary did surprise Anet.

Anet knows that they need people to buy things from the cash shop, so by creating these living stories that come out every 2 weeks, this allows Anet to put new limited time items in the shop so people will buy them making them money.  As long as people keep dumping money into the cash shop and rush to get content done I don't think we will see then pattern change.

Is the 2 weeks between chapters good?  I think we will see in time, but from people I know, they are getting tired of it.

#19 Cebbar

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:59 PM

View PostJentari, on 13 November 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

I do think that there is some people who are on the reward focus of the living stories and have or should I say don't want to deal with fighting in those areas.  I think Anet made a mistake in basically requiring a group to get through the levels but allow you to solo all of the instances.
They want players to work together at points, at the very least, and these barriers help to make that happen.  I reckon the group events might be soloable if you take stuff slow and you play very well.  Long winded?  Yes.  Pain in the ass?  Definitely!  But maybe possible.  Either way, I don't think it's too harsh of ArenaNet to expect players to work together in an open world environment.

View PostJentari, on 13 November 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

Anet knows that they need people to buy things from the cash shop, so by creating these living stories that come out every 2 weeks, this allows Anet to put new limited time items in the shop so people will buy them making them money.  As long as people keep dumping money into the cash shop and rush to get content done I don't think we will see then pattern change.
I have a sneaking suspicion NCSoft has a lot of influence on the GemStore.  I have no evidence.  I still think ArenaNet would be more about what the players want at their heart if they didn't have a big bad publisher leering over their shoulder looking to steal their lunch money.

#20 BartenderMan

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:15 AM

I don't mind the 2 week release schedule. What I do mind is the content.

The last 2 LS releases could have been combined into one and it probably would have been a success, but at the rate they're going at the moment we are participating in a tiny bit of a pretty mediocre story for at most a few hours every 2 weeks, and I am not amused. It has been like this since they introduced the living story (except progression was even slower back then), and the only time I was interested in and enjoyed a LS release was the Queen's Jubilee (pre-Scarlet) and that was mostly because the gauntlet was actually enjoyable (all the content that came along with that patch was good too).

Ever since then, it has been boring story instance after boring story instance with a little bit of grinding for achievements in between. Not what I consider fun.

#21 AKGeo

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:06 AM

View Postd_fens, on 13 November 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

Huh? 5 regular mobs in 1st room, a veteran and a regular mob in 2nd room and a veteran in final room. What exactly cannot be soloed in there?

"You can't solo TO the chambers."

Try again.

#22 nerfandderf

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:45 AM

They are going to continue on no matter what. They chose this type of run for retention and economic viability. Players dont like it but who cares. Anet doesnt. They are headlong into this strategy.

A month I think is too long - if people log out for longer than 21 days at a time they dont come back. The amount of days to break a habit.
so the most it could be stretched out is 3 week intervals.
Seeing the 2 week model gives them 2 chances at getting something in the store you will buy and get it now before it is gone! per month variety

So in short they dont care if people hate it - they need to do it. It is all they have.

Edited by nerfandderf, 14 November 2013 - 01:45 AM.


#23 Zan7

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:21 AM

I feel like Anet is giving us something to keep us occupied more than to keep us entertained.
They don't care if the story sucks. They don't care if the gameplay sucks. They don't care if it's repetitive and boring. They don't care if we complain. All they care about is keeping players in the game (the daylies, the time gating on the high level crafting or the rewards).

And if the LS sucks? Meh, it will be be gone in 2 weeks. Who cares?

#24 NerfHerder

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:53 AM

I like the pace.  As long as the content is halfway decent, which it is, I'm happy. I really dont expect to fall in love with every update. And in general the updates are getting more challenging, and adding more layers than when they first started.

I also see the attempt to change LS according to our feedback. Make things more permanent. Give us longer to finish, we get a month to finish them now, I think thats plenty. Break up the mindless zerging, last update we got choke points that require you to dodge and use stun breaks, not just go-go-go. I dont think changing the pace would make the quality any better, either, it would be the same only we wait longer. You have to take things in perspective. LS is short term, its not meant to keep the hardcore players busy. Thats why we have ascended, dailies, pvp, alts, dungeons, and WvW. Maybe my expectations are too realistic? /shrug

Here are random things I dont care for... I am ready for the scarlet fiasco to end. There is plenty of classic lore that would be perfect for LS. Why does it have to have these huge over arcing story lines? I would prefer smaller, isolated storylines. A couple months to clean up Orr, and we unleash an ancient evil or something to replace the undead. On that note, these events still scale horribly for groups under 5 players.  I play at opposite peak hours, and while in some ways thats better, it gets a little short on players at these events. And dont let these things overflow into WvW, thats lame.

#25 whodini

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:06 AM

a zerg is not working together.  strategy is populate the area enough so there is no failure.  no strategy in that.  therefore no team effort just a mass cluster ....

#26 whodini

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:43 AM

a zerg is not working together.  strategy is populate the area enough so there is no failure.  no strategy in that.  therefore no team effort just a mass cluster ....
edit: the only team effort I see is keeping zerg from seperating.  no commander tags zerg splits and sometimes wipes then you got 10 dead players at a time that think waypoints don't exist.  keeping the event scaled up.  yep. zergs are for give it to me now players that I have felt suffercated into. frostgorge champs.  because ppl can make so much money that way makes me feel I have to do so for the economy sake.   yes I do other things but when a particular part of the map is making it difficult for me to afford things it is suffercating.  I truly wish it would be nerfed and a type of  zergless content can make as much money.  dungeons are the only alternative.  I guess though being open world and rewards are dazed for players to see.  it will always be that way.

#27 Castaa

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:24 AM

View Postd_fens, on 13 November 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

Huh? 5 regular mobs in 1st room, a veteran and a regular mob in 2nd room and a veteran in final room. What exactly cannot be soloed in there?

You aren't soloing Champ events blocking the way and a rooms/ramps full of vets, elites and exploding spores. Have you gone past the first room because a comment like that makes me think you haven't actually tried it.

Edited by Castaa, 14 November 2013 - 07:28 AM.


#28 typographie

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:42 AM

My complaints are the same they've always been in similar threads: Anet have missed opportunities at every turn to tie this all together into a story that feels like it actually belongs in this universe. I suppose "The Scarlet Story" considered on its own is coherent (that's not to say its particularly good), but the whole thing feels bizarre and out of place without any ties to the context of the surrounding game. Its like if Blizzard decided to spend a whole year's content telling the story of Batman and the Joker within WoW.

Granted, I'm pretty sure I'm ultimately wrong and they will eventually explain its ties to the rest of the story. But to make us wait over a year for it to pop into place is still extraordinarily bad narrative.

I have no issue with the cadence of the releases or the concept of temporary content. If there was a meaningful story and enough expansion-like permanent stuff being added to the game, I could be satisfied with the living story in lieu of paid expansions.

Edited by typographie, 14 November 2013 - 08:52 AM.


#29 Miragee

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:49 AM

Well, I don't feel they get more lack-luster each 2 weeks. I feel they stay the same bottom barrel niveau as they startet. To sum it up, what we get in those:

- a new monster type
- uninspired events that repeat every second event (e.g. Portals)
- sometimes a new gimmicky dungeon
- very rarely a new map, and if it is very small
- no real plot, som npc giving you one liners about how horrible everything is and that's it
- tons of shop items
- some ugly rewards
- an extremly long achievement list, for which you have to play the (boring "content") mutiple times to get them

All that stands above is temporary and has neither a meaning nor persistent consequences for the world. Didn't matter if it was there or not. The following points are the permanent ones:

- new characters
- very rarely a convinience update (wallet, lfg tool)
- skills (1)

I bolded the things I think are quality content. Characters, dungeons, story and events could be quality content but they are not. I don't think the LS is capable of telling a really compelling plot because it will go over a very long period of time. It might be a good idea to fill the gap until the next expansion (aka major plot) comes out, maybe functioning as a peambel. But if it's the only thing they will do, they can step with the plot how they want, the story will still not be compelling to play at any given point but at the climax.
The LS also misses, what I personally enjoy the most in RPG's: Landmass to explore. They need to that. And not just one tiny map at a time but many maps that fit in the world and fitting each other.
Also, they need stop stop the achievement mess. This huge checklist kills everything the game was about. I don't like achievements at all but as a small add I can live with it. Not so with GW2 achievements which are presented as the major content each patch. And in fact, sad but true, they are. There is next to no real content. Only achievements as an incentive to do stuff you wouldn't do otherwise (or wouldn't put nearly as much time in it).

I personally feel very dissatisfied with the LS. It's lacking content and quality. For the last updates I jumped in for an hour or two and then left it behind. A lot of people talk about expansions. I would be largely in favour of an expansion, too. But I don't know if I would buy one. Definately not day one. It will depend on how they will approach all the wrong things they decided to implemented in gw2 vanilla.


View PostCastaa, on 13 November 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

You can't really solo to the chambers.  You need to group.

You can solo skip everything.

#30 typographie

typographie

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:59 AM

View PostMiragee, on 14 November 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

I don't think the LS is capable of telling a really compelling plot because it will go over a very long period of time.

Its true that the living story would inevitably tell its overarching story little pieces at a time, but I don't think it would be nearly so objectionable if we had some notion of what the eventual goal might be. Like, if there were hints that this stuff with Scarlet was eventually going to wrap around into a dragon or a new landmass or something—someday—I'd be a lot more tolerant of this.

I think what bothers me so much about this is the sense of despair when I see the next LS announcement and find that its always just more potentially cool story steamrolled over by apparent nonsense.

Edited by typographie, 14 November 2013 - 08:59 AM.





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