Nemesis has done an excellent job in duration vs damage. Your case stands still if the number of stacks of bleeds remain the same in either case; however the main point of stacking condition duration isn't merely altering the duration, it is stacking more bleeds. If we look at it this way, condition duration is actually superior as it provides more bleed stacks instead of increasing the damage of already existing bleeds. It is better to have 2 stacks of bleeds that do 100 dps each rather than having 1 stack that does 130 damage. Note that condition duration also helps conditionmancers to maintain their sustained AoE between epidemics, and increase the capability of whatever support conditions (cripple, weakness, chill, immobilize, fear etc.).
First off, I really wouldn't consider Nemesis's build to be the best representation of a conditionmancer build. It's definitely a condition/support hybrid. Also, if I remember correctly, he stacks bleed duration and has no more condition duration than a setup with full Undead,
Alright, I wanted to try to settle this once and for all and so made a spreadsheet of my calculations with several different rune options here: https://docs.google....#38;output=html
I hope its easy to read. This is basically a damage calculation for the scepter's auto attack chain. Red bars represent an application of bleed, green bars poison, and orange bars fire. The total damage is the sum of all numbers within a 14 second time window. No consumables were used.
Important facts to keep in mind:
- Conditions all tic at the same time; the game runs on a timer and checks at certain time 1 second intervals what conditions are active, and tics for ALL active conditions at that time regardless of when they were applied prior to that check point.
- The in-game tool tips show durations rounded to the nearest quarter second, however, in actuality the game does not round your conditions
- Bleed stacks both duration and intensity, poison only stacks duration
- Lingering Curse functions weird. It simply straight up adds 2 seconds of duration to the bleeds from Blood Curse and Rending Curse, and 2 seconds to the poison from Putrid Curse. Source: http://wiki.guildwar...Lingering_Curse
- The game does round the amount of damage each tic of a condition does
Assumptions I made:
- Dhuumfire procs exactly once during the 14 second duration of the test. I think this is a pretty conservative estimate and probably will proc more than just one full duration, but since I don't know the chance for certain, I think one proc is a pretty reasonable estimate.
- The entire autoattack chain takes 3 seconds with each of the three component combo attacks needing 1 sec to go through its animations and cast times and stuff. Source of claim: http://wiki.guildwar...iki/Blood_Curse
- No damage is done by the condition until exactly 1 second after its initial application
- You aren't overriding your conditions and no one else is either
- The meatbag that you're attacking isn't dead before 14 seconds is up
- All Rabid gear with just one Superior Sigil of Bursting, no infusions
- Things that are common across all builds have no effect (e.g. attack rotations would not make a difference, base stats from gear similarities do not make a difference since they are constant in each case)
- If a condition lasted an extra half second or something, for example, I accounted for that value by multiplying the damage of a single tic by that overflow duration (eg. .5 in this case), as it will add half a tic's worth of damage every application in the long run
- I did not account for Barbed Precision as I couldn't figure out what its true duration is. The wiki says 2 seconds at 0% condition duration (which does indeed seem to be the case in pvp), but in game the tooltip says 3.5 seconds at 30% duration. As I did not want to put in any false information (couldn't trust the tooltip because tooltips round when the game does not).
- I changed Lerre's rune recommendations to what I think is the most optimal given the new content additions, keeping his concept of hitting 100% condition duration with food
- No stacks of corruption, although I wouldn't think adding them would change the ultimate conclusion. I figured the superior sigil of bursting was an adequate estimation for the amount of additional condition damage you would have on average.
Possible Flaws that could change the results
- No consideration of Barbed Precision
- No consideration of Superior Sigil of Earth
So what conclusions can we make? First off, Lerre's build and runes that purely aim to maximize bleed duration just lose miserably in damage. The only two viable options are clearly 6x Runes of the Undead or 3x Afflicted and 3x Krait. So let's break down the positives and negatives for each one, as compared to the other.
3x Afflicted and 3x Krait
- You do
~.2% more condition damage, given that no one overrides your bleeds and that the target lives for at least 12.6 seconds
- You are more susceptible to getting your bleed stacks overridden by others, decreasing your damage
- You will do less damage if the target lives for less than 12.6 seconds
6x Runes of the Undead
- You are less susceptible to getting your bleed stacks overridden by others
- You are the least possible susceptible to gimped damage if your target dies too fast
- You have more toughness and survivability than the other rune set
- You will do about ~.2% less condition damage on a long living target
I'm also going to present the hypothesis here that 6x Runes of the Undead with Koi Cake and Toxic Focusing Crystal outdamages 3x Krait and 3x Afflicted with Koi Cake and Master Tuning Crystal in all cases. I'm fairly certain that this is true, but I don't have the time to test right now.
Important to note, taking into consideration Barbed Precision and the addition of a Superior Sigil of Earth would increase the damage gap of the two rune set-ups in favor of 3x Afflicted and 3x Krait (big "I THINK" here, haven't tested it yet). However, taking into consideration the direct damage that the scepter auto attack chain does lessens that gap in favor of Runes of the Undead (this I'm sure of). Dhuumfire procing more than once also tips the favor to Runes of the Undead (this I'm sure of). For simplicity's sake, let's just even give 3x Afflicted and 3x Krait the benefit of the doubt and round up its damage advantage to 1%, a very generous assumption and 5 times what the spreadsheet predicts it to be.
But what's the reality? In 99% of cases, Runes of the Undead will do more damage against trash mobs. It will always do more damage if you have anyone else stacking bleeds at all and it will (my hypothesis here) always do more damage with the correct consumables. 3x Afflicted and 3x Krait will do 1% more damage against bosses and veterans that live more than 12.6 seconds... and that's about it. Runes of the Undead even provide you with more survivability. While in theory, condition duration seems like it helps a lot, the numbers and options the game actually provides has the result such that the opportunity cost of stacking condition duration outweighs the benefits.
I do have to address my two flaws of this test though. I'm fairly certain that not considering Barbed Precision and Superior Sigil of Earth does not affect the conclusion that Runes of the Undead and 3x Afflicted and 3x Krait are better than all other options, only possibly
affecting the difference between the two best set-ups.
Ultimately, it looks like while 3x Afflicted and 3x Krait are better in a minority of cases, Runes of the Undead are better in most cases. The discussion of "duration versus damage" means nothing without hard numbers; if you don't use numbers from the game, you can literally make up any arbitrary number to support your point of view. This really shouldn't even be a controversy anymore.
EDIT: I think I found the Barbed Precision problem. It seems that Hemophilia just adds a flat 1 second duration increase do it, instead of multiplying by 1.2. Or maybe I did something wrong. I'll try to update the spreadsheet later taking into consideration both Superior Sigil of Earth and Barbed Precision and revisit my conclusion. I hope it's at least established that only 6x Undead or 3x Afflicted and 3x Krait are the only viable options.
Looking at your setup, you really don't have to take Sigil of Corruption and Bursting together. You can have an extra dagger with Bursting sigil and wear it after you have all 25 stacks of Corruption, replacing the dagger with the Corruption sigil. You really don't want to drop Sigil of Earth on either weapon as extra stacks of bleed are invaluable and in staff you really won't stay long enough for the Sigil of Bursting to benefit but will for dropping avaliable marks only which are bound to proc Sigil of Earth. (I only went Corruption with staff to display maximum condition damage on link. Normally I would swap it with Earth.)
C'mon man, don't need to be so picky
. You suggest having a couple spare weapons to switch to after we stack 25 corruption stacks, but why just one weapon? Let's go all the way and make it 100% optimal. It would be to have two equipment sets like such:
Scepter: Superior Sigil of Corruption - Dagger: Superior Sigil of Corruption - Staff: Superior Sigil of Corruption
Once 25 Stacks are reached, switch to:
Scepter: Superior Sigil of Bursting - Dagger: Superior Sigil of Earth - Staff: Superior Sigil of Earth
You bring up a good point that I never even considered. I just took it for granted that Bursting probably destroys Earth in terms of damage, but maybe it doesn't. Would you say that Superior Sigil of Earth raises your DPS by more than 6%? If so, then I guess for a set-up in which you only have one set, it would look like:http://gw2skills.net...DTHjIqWKAYWWB-e
EDIT: Quick Google search says Earth is better.
Edited by OChunx, 05 January 2014 - 10:54 PM.