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[Guide] An Introduction to the Necromancer

necro power cond dagger warhorn wells build guide

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#61 Chase

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:55 PM

Best side track ever.
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#62 Scesmoon

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:50 PM

yo. ive been watching this thread for a while and i recently made a necromancer because your guide seems awesome. currently at lvl 63 and running a mix of your vampiric bomber build and life manipulation. being nigh invincible with well of darkness + siphon in dungeons for initial alpha strikes is f****** amazing. i constantly have people asking me how i am surviving in zerker gear rofl. my question is at this lvl after putting the 30 points into blood magic would you say its more important to get the 20-25 points into curses for banshee's wail/target the weak or should i go for soulreaping for path of midnight?

currently the way i seem to be playing my necro is running in hitting /F#4 dropping darkness and suffering once im in the middle of the fray so i cant be hit then using /Wh#5, i dagger AA until im no longer invincible then when i start taking a lot of dmg i hit DS#5 then #4. staying in DS until i count down the timer on either my well of blood if it was on cooldown or my darkness. this means that id kinda like to have my DS 4/5 off cooldown each time i go into DS.

the question is since im not 80 yet; is getting lower cooldowns on DS abilities worth losing the lower cooldown on warhorn 5?

edit: i also added you in game. so i can pick your brain about necromancer awesomeness. name: scesmoon

Edited by Scesmoon, 21 January 2014 - 03:03 PM.

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#63 Phenn

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:12 PM

yo. ive been watching this thread for a while and i recently made a necromancer because your guide seems awesome. currently at lvl 63 and running a mix of your vampiric bomber build and life manipulation. being nigh invincible with well of darkness + siphon in dungeons for initial alpha strikes is f****** amazing. i constantly have people asking me how i am surviving in zerker gear rofl. my question is at this lvl after putting the 30 points into blood magic would you say its more important to get the 20-25 points into curses for banshee's wail/target the weak or should i go for soulreaping for path of midnight?

currently the way i seem to be playing my necro is running in hitting /F#4 dropping darkness and suffering once im in the middle of the fray so i cant be hit then using /Wh#5, i dagger AA until im no longer invincible then when i start taking a lot of dmg i hit DS#5 then #4. staying in DS until i count down the timer on either my well of blood if it was on cooldown or my darkness. this means that id kinda like to have my DS 4/5 off cooldown each time i go into DS.

the question is since im not 80 yet; is getting lower cooldowns on DS abilities worth losing the lower cooldown on warhorn 5?

edit: i also added you in game. so i can pick your brain about necromancer awesomeness. name: scesmoon


Ain't it great? I know the Siphon builds get ragged on all the time, but there's just nothing like being tanky AND damagy. When my guild ran the Aetherblades dungeon, I once found that my anchor guard had lagged out and I was all alone tanking a champ and two silvers. Felt pretty epic holding them off till the rest of the party arrived.

Given your rotation, I'd definitely go with Paths of Midnight first. The extra Crit damage will help out in the deeps department, and the extra LF will give you longer sustain while you're waiting for things to come up off CD. I typically play using DS only situationally, so Wh CDs are crucial for me. I've never thought to use DS in the way you described, so thanks for that! I'll have to give it a go and see how it works out.

Hopefully I'll see you in game!
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#64 OChunx

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:14 PM

Hey, sorry if I'm sort of excessively nagging now, but Lopez's website is still down, Terrormancer and Staff Dancer still link to the same build, and Lerre's rune set-up is out of date and far inferior to just 6x undead, as I tried to prove in a previous post. It would be helpful if you could take a look at those whenever you have time.
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#65 Phenn

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:29 PM

Hey, sorry if I'm sort of excessively nagging now, but Lopez's website is still down, Terrormancer and Staff Dancer still link to the same build, and Lerre's rune set-up is out of date and far inferior to just 6x undead, as I tried to prove in a previous post. It would be helpful if you could take a look at those whenever you have time.


Done and done. Thanks for reminding me!
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#66 OChunx

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:58 PM

Ahh. Small typo, the description under Conditionmancer says it stacks Terror but Terror isn't in the linked build. Anyway, if I were to just add a small comment to it, use Terror for open world roaming/map completion (for more damage) but use Master of Corruption when doing fractals/dungeons (so fear doesn't scatter stacked mobs) and farming large mob events (more epidemic tags). Also, conditions are inadvisable for fractals/dungeons despite me ironically offering advice for use of the build in the case of fractals/dungeons.
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#67 Scesmoon

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:41 PM

hey phenn. ive run into something that has made me change the build once again for variation on the well bomber build. ive opted for 10/20/0/30/10 in order to get the mods for lifeblast. because in some dungeons i just have to have an ability to be at range, and since both of necros long range options are primarily for conditions (staff and scepter) id rather life blast stuff to hell. which means i lose out on a little healing from the power into life trait and a little dmg from the target the weak trait trait HOWEVER this build also seems to get some ridiculous burst whenever i have to go into DS mode.

anytime i have to be far from boss/mobs because of whatever PbAoE they may be doing i am able to stack might to the high heavens as well as get my piercing and vulnerability on them. as soon as they stop doing said aoes, i can use DS2 to teleport right back in with my might stacks and out out of DS resulting in my dagger AA and wells to get a nice jolt of dmg burst.

build here: http://en.gw2skills....Ut3oIa1SB80yI-e

best thing about this variant is that if i absolutely know i wont need the range for whatever dungeon i can always swap out the life blast mods for path to midnight and spiteful talisman or condition removal. if you have any suggestions id love to hear it. i hope target the weak isnt TOO much a dps loss by removing it

one last thing: i still cant figure out if blood thirst is better than having vampiric prescision or not. i always take well CDs and well siphons though so only that slot is a question mark. any pointers?

Edited by Scesmoon, 28 January 2014 - 04:44 PM.

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#68 Phenn

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:56 PM

hey phenn. ive run into something that has made me change the build once again for variation on the well bomber build. ive opted for 10/20/0/30/10 in order to get the mods for lifeblast. because in some dungeons i just have to have an ability to be at range, and since both of necros long range options are primarily for conditions (staff and scepter) id rather life blast stuff to hell. which means i lose out on a little healing from the power into life trait and a little dmg from the target the weak trait trait HOWEVER this build also seems to get some ridiculous burst whenever i have to go into DS mode.

anytime i have to be far from boss/mobs because of whatever PbAoE they may be doing i am able to stack might to the high heavens as well as get my piercing and vulnerability on them. as soon as they stop doing said aoes, i can use DS2 to teleport right back in with my might stacks and out out of DS resulting in my dagger AA and wells to get a nice jolt of dmg burst.

build here: http://en.gw2skills....Ut3oIa1SB80yI-e

best thing about this variant is that if i absolutely know i wont need the range for whatever dungeon i can always swap out the life blast mods for path to midnight and spiteful talisman or condition removal. if you have any suggestions id love to hear it. i hope target the weak isnt TOO much a dps loss by removing it

one last thing: i still cant figure out if blood thirst is better than having vampiric prescision or not. i always take well CDs and well siphons though so only that slot is a question mark. any pointers?


Very interesting mods. In response:

1) If you're going to rely on DS + LB to do ranged damage, then take Staff on-swap. It'll out DPS D/ and even traited A/ in the right situations, so having it on-swap for the big LBs is crucial. In this case, I'd drop /F if you're hitting a lot of mobs, or /Wh if you're focusing single-target bosses.

2) Dropping TTW is a little iffy for me. Both TTW and the Might stacks from Reaper's Might are contingent DPS boosts. Neither is 100% guaranteed. TTW typcially has a little more staying-power than R'sM, simply because it scales off of ALL party ConDs. However, the break-even point for Might versus TTW (in a 10/20/0/30/10 versus 0/25/0/30/15) is 5 ConD ~ 10 stacks of Might. So if you can keep ~10 stacks of Might up, you'll be better off in most situations. If your group can maintain 5+ ConD, then TTW is usually better. However, you MUST be able to maintain those Might stacks, otherwise your DPS will drop quickly.

3) Vampiric Precision is better in nearly all situations simply because it adds another source of Siphoning, which is huge for Wells. Also, anything that Crits hits just that much harder (as a Vampiric tick + VP tick can occur on the same hit). HOWEVER, if you're up against a single-target, Bloodthirst edges out VP simply because of how well it scales with D/ #2. So: VP for mobs, BT for bosses. But, given that the increase is only 20%, the difference is less severe than when it was at a full 50%. And if you don't use D/ #2 all that often (which I don't), then VP is the way to go.

Let me know if you have any other thoughts.

EDIT: Also, if you want a pure Vampire build, this is what I've put together (it assumes that Vampirism and Scavenging do NOT share an ICD).

Edited by Phenn, 28 January 2014 - 07:19 PM.

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#69 Scesmoon

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:21 PM

Very interesting mods. In response:

1) If you're going to rely on DS + LB to do ranged damage, then take Staff on-swap. It'll out DPS D/ and even traited A/ in the right situations, so having it on-swap for the big LBs is crucial. In this case, I'd drop /F if you're hitting a lot of mobs, or /Wh if you're focusing single-target bosses.

2) Dropping TTW is a little iffy for me. Both TTW and the Might stacks from Reaper's Might are contingent DPS boosts. Neither is 100% guaranteed. TTW typcially has a little more staying-power than R'sM, simply because it scales off of ALL party ConDs. However, the break-even point for Might versus TTW (in a 10/20/0/30/10 versus 0/25/0/30/15) is 5 ConD ~ 10 stacks of Might. So if you can keep ~10 stacks of Might up, you'll be better off in most situations. If your group can maintain 5+ ConD, then TTW is usually better. However, you MUST be able to maintain those Might stacks, otherwise your DPS will drop quickly.


in that case it seems maybe i should simply stick with TtW because even when i jump into DS and spam life blasts its still isnt usually long enough to get 10 stacks of might because of LBs slow animation and besides that i have no way to keep the stacks afterward so based on your math TTW will be the bigger DPS for me, and because even if i get a group with migth stacking warriors or eles i can always still benefit from TTW. almost every group ive ever been in can get 5+ cond on a boss even if they arent condition builds. but perhaps maybe i should keep staff on swap with dagger/warhorn anyways so that i always have a way to do ranged dmg when necessary.

sigh i was looking forward to trying to get spirit links and/or the anomaly as my focus skin ;__; why arent there any cool warhorn skins??

Edited by Scesmoon, 28 January 2014 - 08:25 PM.

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#70 Phenn

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:04 PM

~snip~

sigh i was looking forward to trying to get spirit links and/or the anomaly as my focus skin ;__; why arent there any cool warhorn skins??


I'd say do it anyway. You'll still need /F for single-target, and you won't always be relying on Staff for your build. And it'll give you something to work toward... :)

 
Unrelated: Working on a complete hybrid build that stacks ConD as a direct supplement to Crit Damage, and solve one of the biggest issues with D/ builds on the Necro: no cleave. So what we have here is a build that stacks decent Power (2300-ish), really good Crit (66% before Fury), and tolerable ConD (1100-ish).

When it comes to dealing with waves with a break in between, the Wells work wonderfully. But in prolonged engagements the D/'s single-target focus becomes a hindrance. On bosses with adds, for instance, you're forced to either choose between using your Wells to do damage on the boss, or save them (and take the DPS drop) for the adds. Additionally, Wells are Dark Fields--so there's always that problem.

With this build, you have enough ConD to pop an Epidemic and melt adds quickly, as well as enough consistent AoE ConD to deal with stronger mobs. Finally, UNlike pure ConD builds where you're forced to depend entirely on your ConD for DPS, you can supplement your bleeds and burns with actually decent direct damage.

That's all fine, but why Hybrid if we lose Crit Damage? Well 1) because Crit Dmg is getting nerfed, I wanted to mess with other alternatives, 2) because I don't like Nemesis' hybrid build, 3) because the D/Wh + Wells gameplay is really really bursty, and 4) because I'm flippin' bored with the normal builds.

But most importantly, if the proposed changes hit (that mobs will gain certain weaknesses to ConD), you become a deadlier force than before. With 100% duration on bleeds, burns, and chills, you have the potential to maintain perma-ConD, often in AoE. The boost to AoE weakness and a RIDICULOUS immobilize are also great.

Finally, because you have 1100 ConD, you'll push out the other ConDs that your group members stack passively. Just make sure they know you're a Hybrid.
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#71 Pregnantman

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:10 PM

in that case it seems maybe i should simply stick with TtW because even when i jump into DS and spam life blasts its still isnt usually long enough to get 10 stacks of might because of LBs slow animation and besides that i have no way to keep the stacks afterward so based on your math TTW will be the bigger DPS for me, and because even if i get a group with migth stacking warriors or eles i can always still benefit from TTW. almost every group ive ever been in can get 5+ cond on a boss even if they arent condition builds. but perhaps maybe i should keep staff on swap with dagger/warhorn anyways so that i always have a way to do ranged dmg when necessary.

sigh i was looking forward to trying to get spirit links and/or the anomaly as my focus skin ;__; why arent there any cool warhorn skins??


5 conditions is fairly easy to keep (bleed, poison, cripple, vulnurability, chill/weakness are gradually applied as you keep hitting), and can easily add up. My advice is that you should always prioritize flat damage bonus over niche situations (more might/ might that lasts longer/crit damage etc). That is why Rune of the Scholar is always chosen over might duration runes and Sigil of Force/Night over Strength/Battle. As for wearing staff, I think you should stick with dagger/wh and dagger/focus unless you are literally forced out of melee completely. The build relies on weapon swap, cooldowns on focus and warhorn (warhorn procs more siphons, focus gives vulnurability and regen which is a priority in siphon builds) and not breaking AA chain too much, so dont wear a staff unless you have to.

The coolest warhorn I could find for my necro is the corrupted one. It is very good if you like chilly look.

As for the hybrid build, I like it. However, with the change in Sigil of Earth (%100 chance to proc on crit) and Dhuumfire, how would a DS build look like as a hybrid? It can range, pierce and stay out of trouble?

Edited by Pregnantman, 28 January 2014 - 09:28 PM.

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#72 Phenn

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:43 PM

The coolest warhorn I could find for my necro is the corrupted one. It is very good if you like chilly look.

As for the hybrid build, I like it. However, with the change in Sigil of Earth (%100 chance to proc on crit) and Dhuumfire, how would a DS build look like as a hybrid? It can range, pierce and stay out of trouble?


Yeah I typically go with Corrupted skins as well.

And I'm planning on using Earth/Geomancy combo when the change hits. Haven't thought about a DS-centric hybrid, but with the proposed change to Dhuumfire, it's definitely viable.
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#73 Scesmoon

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 02:33 AM

5 conditions is fairly easy to keep ~snip~

The coolest warhorn I could find for my necro is the corrupted one. It is very good if you like chilly look.

Yeah I typically go with Corrupted skins as well.


yeah thats what i thought. 5 cond is easy to get and keep on a boss/mob which makes Target the weak a much better trait than the life blast mods. tbh the only time i really absolutely need a ranged weapon is when i end up in dungeon groups that want to skip/glitch every damn thing (that irritates me a lot BTW) for instance glitching the final boss of path 1 caduceus manor "Frost" where you stand on the rock so he literally cant touch you but you must use ranged to kill him.

as for weapon skins i use corrupted sledgehammer on my guardian who is technically my main i suppose. hes my only 80 so far. and speaking of cleave id really kill for more melee weapons on necromancer. i prefer melee combat to be honest. id love to see something unique like a hammer necromancer. i was surprised to see Mesmer get great sword and its pretty cool. why cant we get non typical weapons for other classes as well.

Edited by Scesmoon, 29 January 2014 - 02:36 AM.

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#74 Pregnantman

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 07:31 AM

The DS centric hybrid build can look something like this:

http://gw2skills.net...UtDpIa1SBAzwK-e

With at least 10 stacks of Perception you can exceed %30 crit chance. Couple that with Fury (arguably one of the easiest boon for group to supply and maintain) and Deathly Perception, you will reach %100 crit chance. Typically, focus is a classic choice for single target encounters but for AoE, warhorn offers higher DS maintainence and more procs of Barbed Precision/Sigil of Earth.

I havent made my mind for the utility skills yet though. Since we have to spend some time in DS for effective dps, we cant use Epidemic on cooldown, but in return our attacks can cleave (when people stack) and proc on crit bleed effects to all targets. Signet of Spite can stay as we use it on cooldown but without TTW its not as effective. Alternatives could be Spectral Grasp (extra LF gen), Shadow Fiend (extra LF gen/damage), Well of Suffering (good damage and fast ticks will proc bleed), Bone Minions (blasts but again there is a chance to miss their cooldown), Corrosive Poison Cloud (for more weakness) and Flesh Wurm (extra dps/escape button). For single target, I would drop Epidemic and slot one of these (Shadow Fiend is my favorite as you also look "shadowy" on DS), and slot more if Blood is Power becomes redundant due to provided might stacks. Tell me what do you think.
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#75 Phenn

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:33 AM

The DS centric hybrid build can look something like this:

http://gw2skills.net...UtDpIa1SBAzwK-e

With at least 10 stacks of Perception you can exceed %30 crit chance. Couple that with Fury (arguably one of the easiest boon for group to supply and maintain) and Deathly Perception, you will reach %100 crit chance. Typically, focus is a classic choice for single target encounters but for AoE, warhorn offers higher DS maintainence and more procs of Barbed Precision/Sigil of Earth.

I havent made my mind for the utility skills yet though. Since we have to spend some time in DS for effective dps, we cant use Epidemic on cooldown, but in return our attacks can cleave (when people stack) and proc on crit bleed effects to all targets. Signet of Spite can stay as we use it on cooldown but without TTW its not as effective. Alternatives could be Spectral Grasp (extra LF gen), Shadow Fiend (extra LF gen/damage), Well of Suffering (good damage and fast ticks will proc bleed), Bone Minions (blasts but again there is a chance to miss their cooldown), Corrosive Poison Cloud (for more weakness) and Flesh Wurm (extra dps/escape button). For single target, I would drop Epidemic and slot one of these (Shadow Fiend is my favorite as you also look "shadowy" on DS), and slot more if Blood is Power becomes redundant due to provided might stacks. Tell me what do you think.


Looks good to me. So long as those Perception stacks don't take too long (I.e. CoF P1). I'm realizing that gear alone can turn most standard Necro Power builds into viable Hybrids because of the vast amounts of passive ConD that the Necro has. And with Crit Damage set to become slightly less important, it's definitely worth looking into. Plus there are a TON of synergies within the Necro traits and utilities. Sig of Spite is a perfect example. In my build it's not only a huge ConD burst, it also buffs my DD.

I've run my Hybrid through some basic tests and so far it's wonderful. With the extra ConD everything seems to be dropping like flies. The rotation resets a LOT faster than a Well build, and the burst is potent. Couple of changes thus far:
  • I'm swapping out Dhuumfire for CTD for basic encounters, and using Dhuumfire for bosses. 6 seconds of burning isn't enough to merit Epidemicing.
  • Speaking of Epidemic, I'm using it now only when I can pop it on a Boss with a lot of ConD to hit adds. Sig of Spite is better for groups for the passive, and the active hits single targets like a truck.
  • I'm keeping Zerker trinkets and opting to build Corruption stacks to supplement the ConD loss. This gives a nice touch of Crit Damage and Power, at the loss of a little e Precision and ConD. I'll probably end up grabbing Ramps trinkets anyway, but this works for now.
This is what I'm looking at.

Edited by Phenn, 30 January 2014 - 04:34 AM.

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#76 OChunx

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:50 AM

Are the upcoming crit damage nerfs really extreme enough to warrant dropping them completely in favor of primary stat condition hybrid builds? My opinion is no. If the hybrids aren't doing at least 90% of the damage that zerker necromancer builds are doing right now, they still won't be any better than the zerker builds in the future. I don't think Dhuumfire on Life Blast will change anything in the shredder build. 3 sec burn every 10 sec is hardly better (if at all) than the 4 sec burn on every crit every 10 sec that we have now for a death shroud build. And if it isn't a good idea mixing in condition damage right now, then I can't see it being worth it in the future either.

Also, you have to keep in mind that runes and sigils are getting reworked and will likely become more build defining, so a lot of the current build ideas for the future patch will probably change a lot based on these new runes.
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#77 Phenn

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 06:20 AM

Are the upcoming crit damage nerfs really extreme enough to warrant dropping them completely in favor of primary stat condition hybrid builds? My opinion is no. If the hybrids aren't doing at least 90% of the damage that zerker necromancer builds are doing right now, they still won't be any better than the zerker builds in the future. I don't think Dhuumfire on Life Blast will change anything in the shredder build. 3 sec burn every 10 sec is hardly better (if at all) than the 4 sec burn on every crit every 10 sec that we have now for a death shroud build. And if it isn't a good idea mixing in condition damage right now, then I can't see it being worth it in the future either.

Also, you have to keep in mind that runes and sigils are getting reworked and will likely become more build defining, so a lot of the current build ideas for the future patch will probably change a lot based on these new runes.


By itself, I'm not under the impression that the nerf to Crit Damage would single-handedly make Hybrids viable. I'm structuring my conceptualization of the Hybrid on a lot of speculation.

1) If the Crit Damage nerf is one of many (as hinted at by the devs) set to move DD builds back a notch or two, then Hybrids will indeed have a place. 2) If the promise of ConD-specific weaknesses in mobs hits, the Hybrids will once again have a place (unless it's a matter of taking a single ConDmancer, but that's to be seen). 3) The changes to Sigils and Runes I'm banking on opening up some really interesting play for Hybrids--like Earth and Geomancy together. 4) There is no point number four.

And 5) I'm bored. :)

So yeah. I'm under no impression that a Hybrid build will be on-par with a Crit Damage build. But, it's still fun and may have a place in the long run. Plus, there's something to be said for build variety that "works."


Also, EDIT:

1) There is a surprising amount of awesome synergy within the Necro trait lines (at least Spite and Curses) for a Hybrid build. What benefits one benefits the other. It makes me wonder if what appeared to be broken when the Necro compartmentalized into either Power or ConD is really NOT broken when the Necro goes Hybrid.

2) A Hybrid has a foot in both worlds. It can both do decent direct damage (the weakness of ConD builds), and it can sustain damage while dodge/evading/running away (the weakness of Power builds).

Edited by Phenn, 30 January 2014 - 07:16 PM.

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#78 Pregnantman

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 08:16 PM

@Phenn

Perception stacks shouldnt be a problem in this setup. With only 10 stacks, you should have guaranteed crits in DS, and that means only 5 mobs you will have to kill with a supplement weapon set that have 2 Perception sigils. I like your suggestion, swapping to CtD when necessary, however if Dhuumfire change will be something like I hope it would be (a life blast applies burning to every target it hits when Unyielding Blast is taken, I dont see a reason not to) it would also be viable in AoE. Like you, I may put some Zerkers here and there for some extra power and crit damage, but without seeing the changes to crit damage and whatnot, I âm not sure if I can confidently swap 400 condi damage with 200 power and some crit damage. Lets see what devs will come up with both issues.

My advice for you is to squeeze a warhorn in your build. While it is a potent tool in power builds, it damaging every foe in the area per second with high crit chance builds up good stacks of bleed (it will have about %60 uptime when traited and in a long run may prove to be a better "bleed offhand" than dagger in long run). Also, what do you think about Terror? Would it be worthwhile to take?

@OChunx

I think the builds wont be hit by much with sigil/rune changes. In fact, on crit sigils proccing %100 is a huge improvement for us to stack more conditions. As for runes you are right, but as of now the rune setup Phenn took looks solid.
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#79 Phenn

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 08:25 PM

My advice for you is to squeeze a warhorn in your build. While it is a potent tool in power builds, it damaging every foe in the area per second with high crit chance builds up good stacks of bleed (it will have about %60 uptime when traited and in a long run may prove to be a better "bleed offhand" than dagger in long run). Also, what do you think about Terror? Would it be worthwhile to take?


Hadn't thought about Locust Swarm, but it does seem to fit the bill. Once the Sigils get their own CD it'll be even more potent. I'll have to play around with rotations, though, as half of the bleeds come from Geomancy swaps. The CDs on Enfeebling Blood and Locust Swarm when traited are right around 20 seconds, so I can see it working. Open with EB, swap, Locust Swarm, swap, EB, swap, etc.

I've considered Terror, but at the moment it would only proc on Doom. And it means dropping Weakening Shroud, Corruption CD redux, or Banshee's Wail. At the moment, it's not worth it to me. However, if you're going up against a single target boss, then by all means it should replace something.
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#80 Brandon the Don

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:09 PM

Really fascinating read...

I am gonna get myself some Rampagers gear as well and see if I can get to something going as well - Still in love with the idea for a hybrid so that'll keep me busy...

And since I am gonna have a lot of time (it seems) I might get to actually calculating as well rather than just testing and testing and testing...
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#81 Pregnantman

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:18 AM

For dagger hybrid rampager is a better choice but for DS oriented builds I have found you can get the most benefit from Carrion gear, with Rampager weapons and Rampager gems on trinkets. The reason is that with Deathly Perception, Fury, banners and spotter stacking on crit becomes redundant and you can focus on more valuable things like condition damage, plus vitality is a favored and classic stat for DS builds. Without Deathly Precision however, not even Rampagers are going to make the gamestyle competible with dagger builds, so Deathly Precision and Carrion gear along with it gives you great advantage. But of course, Carrion gear wouldn't be so good on Phenn's build.

If you want to test them both (please do), I think CoF has both sets and would give you a good opportunity to test the gameplay while gathering tokens. I wish I could just log in and do it myself as I happen to have both sets myself, but I haven't finished the college applications yet. Though I am happythat you liked them :)

Edited by Pregnantman, 31 January 2014 - 02:20 AM.

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#82 Phenn

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:54 AM

Sooooo, been testing out the Hybrid with /Wh on swap in Orr.

Ho. Ly. Cow.

Easily burst up to 18 stacks of bleeds on a single target and up to 10 in AoE. I don't feel like I'm killing anything any slower than before, and the ConD simply MELTS through groups. I didn't have time to turn and hit everything with D/ 'cause it was all dropping too fast. With two ConD transfers and Consume Conditions, they simply don't stick.

Definitely my favorite build to date. The Necro 30/30 build was made for Hybrid. I'm convinced.
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#83 MCBiohazard

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:58 AM

Necromancer was my first love in Guild Wars 1 and I've held a candle for it even as it became what it was in GW2. For the longest time I played some flavor of the classic conditionmancer as I really liked the ranged attrition style gameplay of the scepter dagger combo that gave me a lot of leeway when it comes to positioning but I am getting a real itch to get the ubiquitous zerk gear and play with all these fun sounding builds. I was wondering whether the newish 25 point Signet of Vampirism healing skill is worth taking a look at or does Well of Blood basically blow it out of the water with the Vampiric Ritual trait? Signet Mastery maybe?
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#84 Phenn

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:05 AM

I was wondering whether the newish 25 point Signet of Vampirism healing skill is worth taking a look at or does Well of Blood basically blow it out of the water with the Vampiric Ritual trait? Signet Mastery maybe?


Dooooooo it. The "try ALL the builds" part. Not the Signet of Vampirism part.

The Signet sucks. If you want constant siphon/sustain, go with Blood Fiend. It does the job ten times better. If you want party support, go with Well of Blood. Again, it does the job waaaaay better. I have refused to purchase the Signet out of protest for how bad a skill it is...

Apart from that, definitely try out one or more of the builds here. They're all fun in their own right.
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#85 Brandon the Don

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:48 AM

For dagger hybrid rampager is a better choice but for DS oriented builds I have found you can get the most benefit from Carrion gear, with Rampager weapons and Rampager gems on trinkets. The reason is that with Deathly Perception, Fury, banners and spotter stacking on crit becomes redundant and you can focus on more valuable things like condition damage, plus vitality is a favored and classic stat for DS builds. Without Deathly Precision however, not even Rampagers are going to make the gamestyle competible with dagger builds, so Deathly Precision and Carrion gear along with it gives you great advantage. But of course, Carrion gear wouldn't be so good on Phenn's build.

If you want to test them both (please do), I think CoF has both sets and would give you a good opportunity to test the gameplay while gathering tokens. I wish I could just log in and do it myself as I happen to have both sets myself, but I haven't finished the college applications yet. Though I am happythat you liked them :)


I'll see what I can and will do... Carrion makes indeed sense since you will stay a lot longer in say DS, which can be incredibly helfpul if you need the extra power and survivability in say fractals...

I will first see if I can get as close to the build I made so you can easily swap out gear and traits for different situations... I mean, as much as I like build variety, I also want to make things easy for other people :P
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#86 Epixors

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:37 PM

Really fascinating read...

I am gonna get myself some Rampagers gear as well and see if I can get to something going as well - Still in love with the idea for a hybrid so that'll keep me busy...

And since I am gonna have a lot of time (it seems) I might get to actually calculating as well rather than just testing and testing and testing...


Nooooo don't become an elitist spreadsheetwars noob ♥♥♥got pls no oh noez what has this world come to.

Now seriously, do it. Necros need some more people that can/want to do the math as they seem to be behind on that a bit, though Phenn's/your methods seem to work so far.

Edited by Epixors, 31 January 2014 - 04:37 PM.

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#87 Phenn

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:52 PM

Nooooo don't become an elitist spreadsheetwars noob ♥♥♥got pls no oh noez what has this world come to.

Now seriously, do it. Necros need some more people that can/want to do the math as they seem to be behind on that a bit, though Phenn's/your methods seem to work so far.


Yeah--my "method" usually entails me dropping ~30g on an idea only to discover it's just not worth it. Hence the seven sets of gear on my Necro. Methinks the Necros never got the hard-core mathematicians simply because no one thought the Necro potent enough to merit the time invested.

And they're probably right. But I still like the class; hence my incessant build testing.

At the moment, I have no idea how you'd calculate the DPS of a Hybrid. If you wanna give it a shot, though, I can give you my build/rotation. :)
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#88 Epixors

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:01 PM

Yeah--my "method" usually entails me dropping ~30g on an idea only to discover it's just not worth it. Hence the seven sets of gear on my Necro. Methinks the Necros never got the hard-core mathematicians simply because no one thought the Necro potent enough to merit the time invested.

And they're probably right. But I still like the class; hence my incessant build testing.

At the moment, I have no idea how you'd calculate the DPS of a Hybrid. If you wanna give it a shot, though, I can give you my build/rotation. :)


Feel free to PM me and I'll attempt it.
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#89 Brandon the Don

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:15 PM

Haha, well my methods are rather unorthodox... Or Orkish, depends in what kind of universe you live ;)

I need to actually get to comparing raw numbers now as opposed to "lend" people's knowledge on what is good and not (stat wise)... So yea, I need to get into them numbers, and luckily there are a good few sources out there...
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#90 Phenn

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:32 PM

Newest iteration of the Hybrid build.

So far I'm really enjoying it. The passive ConD is HUGE, and 1700 ConD after Might and Stacks is not shabby at all. Let alone the fact that you're still packing 2200 Power and 66% Crit.

I've tried working Crit dmg into the build, and you can't do it without seriously gimping ConD. So I'm leaving it out for now. Also changed the Dagger CD trait to Mark of Blood on-dodge, for more sustain and a free AoE 3-stack bleed. Swapped the Ele runes for a combo that provides another source of Burn, and makes sure that Burn duration is always at 100% even without Toxic stones.

General rotation can spike up to 25 stacks of Bleed on a single target, and maintain 8-10 in AoE if the fight lasts long enough. It's...ridiculously fun.

So. Much. Synergy.
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