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ANet can get alot of respect back by doing..


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#1 LIVESTRONGG

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 03:22 PM

As we all know, ANet seemed to have left what made the original Guild Wars so great, out of GW2. ANet could easily gain back the players they lost and the respect of all the original GW1 players, and ultimately making the game better.

Everyone knows spvp was a huge bust, no rewards.. at all. ANet left in the GW1 model of the higher ranking you get the better cosmetic armor you can get aswell, but left out the other huge factor of doing any kind of pvp, which was getting pve items, and damn rare ones (hoh chest). You could also make gold by doing pvp, selling zkeys. As it stands now, you spvp for what? Pretty much nothing IMO. I'm I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying this, I don't think there is a realisic, or even a thought of mine to fix it. GW1 you had titles that ment something, and if you really think about it, kinda ran how people played the game. GW2 titles mean nothing. The only possible thing to do is scrap the pvp and pve wall and make them joint and have a way to make currencey, whether it be sellable items or gold.

So to the sidenote of PvP, the one big thing that they will, IMO, make the game alot better and gain the respect of alot of GW1 players, is bring back HA/HOH. It is, and always was a great concept of pvp. Now for GW2 you can make it alittle more complex with the game mechanics. I'd say make it 8 man groups like it was in GW1. Don't see how people would be against this returning, unless you're under the assumption that eliteism lives there, and to that I say, that's in every game's pvp... ever. You're not going to avoid it.

Now to PvE and lack of endgame. Fractials is nice, but, for the most part is the only real endgame. Dungeons didn't turn out to be part of endgame with exceptions to Arah. So what do you suggest we do? Have UW and FOW return as elite areas. Make them hard, make them worth doing them. Make them a 12 raid of some kind, similar to The Deep and Urgoz in GW1. Those 2 areas alone are good enough concepts to bring back.

The other big thing I think would help ALL areas of PvE would be.... UNIQUE ITEMS FOR DIFFERENT AREAS. Who didn't like IDS farming in a cave in the middle of nowhere and how unique that was, or any of the GW1 dungeons, BDS farming and all those high end weaons. It would cause alot more people to be in different areas than just the handful there are now. I honestly think this is the one thing I want to see the most.

I just don't see how any of these concepts aren't in the game already.



Sorry if the sentence structures are horrible lol, just wanted to get it out there and haven't slept in awhile. Tell me what you guys think :)

Edited by LIVESTRONGG, 05 December 2013 - 03:24 PM.


#2 Miragee

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 03:47 PM

Hm. I think you miss the point of fun in the game as a core-factor of what is wrong. I don't play pvp in gw2 because it's flat. It's boring. It's not fun. Fun should be the first incentive in any game/mode to play it. Change rewards won't make it any more fun to play. I mean that is what they are doing since month: Make the game more rewarding. But it doesn't enhance the core game by any means.

Beside of that: Yes you are right. The game in general and especially PvP/WvW is lacking rewards/the right rewards. And leaderboards/ladder won't make that any better.

Unique Items for different places is a system I always liked. It is already in place here and there (gathering nodes, Uniques from Champion loot-boxes, dungeon tokens) but not nearly enough to have a real impact.

#3 Shayne Hawke

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 03:56 PM

If the solution to GW2 was to make it more like GW, wouldn't it have been better for them to just have continued working on GW?

Making GW2 like GW won't earn them respect any more than them saying outright, "We ♥♥♥♥ed up," although both actions send the same message.

#4 Miragee

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 04:07 PM

View PostShayne Hawke, on 05 December 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

If the solution to GW2 was to make it more like GW, wouldn't it have been better for them to just have continued working on GW?

Making GW2 like GW won't earn them respect any more than them saying outright, "We ♥♥♥♥ed up," although both actions send the same message.

There is very much in between being exactly like the prequel and being nothing like the prequel. Most of us didn't necessarily want gw2 to be exactly like gw1 (I personally wouldn't have mind expansions instead of gw2 though, regardless of how gw2 could have been). But you shouldn't make a sequel that has nothing to do with the prequel except for some lore connections. But apparently this is not true anymore (I look at you diablo 3).

#5 AsiaSkyly

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:44 PM

I am with you.  I do not think anyone was asking for a game that was identical to GW1, but I second your point that they left a lot of great concepts behind with their old game.  I cannot understand why some of the decisions, which proved to be a successful formula, were completely canned.  

The initial concept of no grind has gone totally out the the window.  We also have a plethora of decisions that do not make a lot of sense and could benefit from the direction that Guild Wars provided.  For example Account Bound vs. Soulbound.  Soulbound items in GW1 had a great benefit cost.  Soulbinding your weapon meant 15% increase in damage.  That is gone in Guild Wars 2 without any logical explanation.  People would say is because of money or gold sinks, but these things could be incorporated into a solution, but haven't.

The same goes for dyes, the targetting system, PvP Hall of Heroes, even Random Arena, Alliances, Factions, etc. etc. etc.

Edited by AsiaSkyly, 05 December 2013 - 07:46 PM.


#6 Datenshi92

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 09:21 PM

Some of you forget that while ArenaNet made both games, they were actually built by different teams. Almost everyone who made the original game has left and the ones that were hired to replace them, used to work for other companies like Blizzard. They brought their previous experiences and knowledge into this game and re-modeled it to be something closer to today's "stereotypical" fantasy MMO with some different gimmicks.

Rewards won't necessarily make things better when its the core itself that is flawed. That mentality of "rewards = good" is false - its basically what ANet has been doing so far with everything since the game launched *cough* Ascended *cough* and we have the living proof of how's that going... The entire game is already a freaking treadmill and we don't need more investment to make it even more so. We need quality, we need alternatives, we need fun! Because that's what a videogame is supposed to be.

It would require a lot of effort, coordination and actually listening to the "good" complaints of the people to fix and not breaking it even further. I don't see it happening because 1) Their schedule is already tight as it is with new content coming up every two weeks 2) Their focus doesn't seem to be to fix the main issues of the game, preferring to throw bones at us to keep us busy while attempting to milk us.

Edited by Datenshi92, 05 December 2013 - 09:50 PM.


#7 Cube

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 09:22 PM

This game is not competitive, it doesn't feel competitive at all and the combat mechanics are shit. That is why PvP is at the level it is in this game.

I used to be a pretty hardcore PvPer in GW. I wasn't among the best as I joined the game too late for that, but there's one thing I remember, being really good at my class was seriously important to me and crazy amounts of fun, because it really mattered. It really mattered to get into those guilds or play with certain people and most of all, it was so incredibly satisfying to play well. It was a deal to have specific titles, it meant something to GvG in certain guilds. It was extremely fun and extremely rewarding. It actually, if you did really well, cold make you pretty rich and be able to wear the most high-end gear. Your name came up in the game on big statues, everyone even in PvE could see it if you won Halls.

I don't know, it was a great time. I don't think you can "res" PvP in GW2. I think that no other PvP format is gonna make it better, I honestly think there's a serious core issue that is more at fault than rewards :/

Edited by Cube, 05 December 2013 - 09:24 PM.


#8 Conkers

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 10:09 PM

View PostLIVESTRONGG, on 05 December 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

As we all know, ANet seemed to have left what made the original Guild Wars so great, out of GW2. ANet could easily gain back the players they lost and the respect of all the original GW1 players, and ultimately making the game better.

Everyone knows spvp was a huge bust, no rewards.. at all. ANet left in the GW1 model of the higher ranking you get the better cosmetic armor you can get aswell, but left out the other huge factor of doing any kind of pvp, which was getting pve items, and damn rare ones (hoh chest). You could also make gold by doing pvp, selling zkeys. As it stands now, you spvp for what?

Lack of PvE rewards had very little to do with it, most people who are into PvP do not care about PvE rewards as PvE is of little interest, the problem with GW2 was:

- They launched without any of the features/infrastructure for good PvP.
- Then took ages to introduce some of those features.
- The features were poorly designed / implemented when they were eventually introduced (e.g - very flawed solo queue rankings, sync queuing or the spectator mode is a joke when it is limited to 10 people, etc.)
- The game lacks variety, they don't seem to grasp it is okay to have other modes, you can still have conquest as your competitive mode, but sometimes people like a change.
- They take an absolute age to make balance changes and fix critical bugs (guard block bug for example), which when combined with their ineptitude when it comes to balancing just results in months of frustration for players, resulting in many simply leaving.

Then on top of that there are issues with the core design / mechanics of the combat in GW2:

- There is simply way too much passive stuff.
- Condies are designed in a way that they are only really effective when they can overwhelm the opponent, but at they point they become too effective, so are always UP or OP. (it also does not help some CC is a condi, immobilize stacking is just beyond moronic)
- They failed to learn from every MMO which goes the invisibility / burst route for thief/rogue/assassin, it is impossible to balance and will always be UP or OP, you'd think they would of learnt from GW1 where the devs stated just that.
- The game is allegedly based on players being able to see their opponents animations and react accordingly, yet it is a game with ridiculously over the top effects that often obscure everything, with numerous instant casts and where everyone can attack from the state of being invisible...

Rewards are not an issue, most PvP games have non-existent to minimal "rewards" outside of gameplay, competition & recognition in some form.

Oh yes, I'd also add with classes that can largely do everything, they've created a situation which is very difficult to balance, in other MMOs you really only have to balance within roles so you might have two or three healers, a couple of tanks, a couple of suport/CC classes and three or four DPS to keep balanced, but in GW2 supposedly every class can play DPS, but other than minor variation they have very little wiggle room, and the fact is certain class designs make it very difficult to balance, - e.g power based glass cannons - the disengage / survivability that stealth, in combat mobilty, teleports, etc give thieves adn mesmers make it nigh on impossible for engineers or rangers to play power based glass cannons.

View PostLIVESTRONGG, on 05 December 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Now to PvE and lack of endgame.

They will never have a meaningful PvE endgame, because the classes are too simplistic and the teamwork too shallow.

Edited by Conkers, 06 December 2013 - 08:26 AM.


#9 Mizpah

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 03:25 AM

I pretty much agree with everything said here so I won't add anymore of what's wrong with GW2.

However I'd like to see more of a discussion about how things could be improved. After seeing the title of this topic I originally thought that was what the OP was asking. In fact he offered some excellent ideas. I think we all know what's wrong with the game (including the Devs). Afterall it has been discussed ad nauseam. So wouldn't it be nice to actually see some constructive discussion rather than the same 'ol "this game sucks kittens, I hope they all burn in Hell" talk?

I sincerely think the powers-that-be puruse these forums and maybe they'll take notice. I have less faith in them actually doing something about it, but hey, you never know!

#10 LIVESTRONGG

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:06 AM

I'm not saying make gw2 a replica of gw1, I'm just saying that those things I listed played a big role in the success of gw1. I find it odd that none of them returned to gw2. Maybe someone could tell me the lore on UW and FOW to see if it's even possible to have them based on that.

Furthermore, to exspand, I wouldn't mind if it was UW or FOW, something similar in concept would work. There needs to be some kind of pve end game that doesn't require you to be a certain level completion to get a group (fractals).

For pvp I know pve awards won't help the flawed nature of spvp as a whole, but to the common player it would have more appeal. And some of you are right, there needs to be new game types, period. Gw1 had a lot of options for pvp, and the one being the best example is HA/HOH. For those that don't know, it was a string of battles that consisted of different game times all leading up to the hall of heroes (HOH). It made for a lot of focus on team builds because certain team comps were better at running a certain game type than others, which led to who is more skilled when the tables are against your team comp. You could even spectate the HOH matches.

One other thing I did leave out in my OP was that I think it's silly not to even have GvG. Though you could say wvw makes up for it not being in, I think it would add more diversity to PvP.

#11 Noob On Steroid

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:47 PM

Why on earth would you even consider HoH/HA the most ideal form of PvP in GW1? It has always been a cesspool of gimmick builds, and died a slow death once everyone lost interest.

GW1 PvP was popular for various reasons. At first you had HoH, because it gave you access to UW/FoW (and thus end-game PvE), with credit for the guild that gave it to the region, as well as cool prizes (HoH chest). Then Anet announced the world championships and pretty much every decent PvP guild started to play GvG. This lasted throughout 2 world championships, various special seasons, and the first set of automated tournaments. All of these offered real world prizes, which is a way better incentive than some in-game rewards.

GW2 PvP has failed to grasp the attention of PvPers, and a game rarely gets second chances on this field. It's foolish to wish GW1 back, because it's not coming back.

#12 LIVESTRONGG

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 02:04 PM

View PostNoob On Steroid, on 06 December 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Why on earth would you even consider HoH/HA the most ideal form of PvP in GW1? It has always been a cesspool of gimmick builds, and died a slow death once everyone lost interest.

GW1 PvP was popular for various reasons. At first you had HoH, because it gave you access to UW/FoW (and thus end-game PvE), with credit for the guild that gave it to the region, as well as cool prizes (HoH chest). Then Anet announced the world championships and pretty much every decent PvP guild started to play GvG. This lasted throughout 2 world championships, various special seasons, and the first set of automated tournaments. All of these offered real world prizes, which is a way better incentive than some in-game rewards.

GW2 PvP has failed to grasp the attention of PvPers, and a game rarely gets second chances on this field. It's foolish to wish GW1 back, because it's not coming back.

HA was unique in the way it had different gametypes leading up to HoH. And if by cesspool of ''gimmick builds" you mean creative builds then yes, but always balanced > *. If you were good enough you'd win with balanced.

#13 Lordkrall

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 02:56 PM

View PostDatenshi92, on 05 December 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Some of you forget that while ArenaNet made both games, they were actually built by different teams. Almost everyone who made the original game has left and the ones that were hired to replace them, used to work for other companies like Blizzard. They brought their previous experiences and knowledge into this game and re-modeled it to be something closer to today's "stereotypical" fantasy MMO with some different gimmicks.

Isn't it quite ironic to state something like this when ArenaNet was created by people that used to work for Blizzard?

#14 Exo Dyo

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 03:33 PM

View PostNoob On Steroid, on 06 December 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Why on earth would you even consider HoH/HA the most ideal form of PvP in GW1? It has always been a cesspool of gimmick builds, and died a slow death once everyone lost interest.

GW1 PvP was popular for various reasons. At first you had HoH, because it gave you access to UW/FoW (and thus end-game PvE), with credit for the guild that gave it to the region, as well as cool prizes (HoH chest). Then Anet announced the world championships and pretty much every decent PvP guild started to play GvG. This lasted throughout 2 world championships, various special seasons, and the first set of automated tournaments. All of these offered real world prizes, which is a way better incentive than some in-game rewards.

GW2 PvP has failed to grasp the attention of PvPers, and a game rarely gets second chances on this field. It's foolish to wish GW1 back, because it's not coming back.

This. Besides, I hated HoH. Not because of what HoH was, but because people were always searching for people with r6+ and that stuff. New people never stood a chance of join a decent HoH team and thus HoH always stayed for the same elitist people. If they could fix this, it would be more interesting.

But what Guild Wars actually misses is indeed imo the GvG, Guild Halls etc.

#15 El Duderino

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 04:18 PM

It is nice to think that ANet could bring these things back under the GW2 banner, but it is impossible. I doubt they could even get it right if they made a Guild Wars 3. The people that made this game aren't the same people that made the original, and even in GW1, the people that were ultimately in charge of the game failed many times to grasp why some things were inherently so good in the game.

The perception of how to make an MMO is like some gravitational force that keeps pulling developers back in to their comfort zones of familiarity. Guild Wars 1 (whether a real MMO or not) broke away for a little, only to slowly sucked back in. Guild Wars 2 has it's own orbit. I sincerely doubt that anybody but a group of passionate, perhaps naive, and definitely independent developers could get close to making another game that might see some of the beauty a few of us found in Guild Wars 1's simplicity - and it's depth. I can tell you how it won't happen - a group of 300 people making a AAA title all with different opinions and philosophies. It's just not focused enough - and those people don't believe the same things that the founders of ANet believed. If they did, we would be seeing it.

Nope, this game is what it is - for better or worse. It is forming it's own niche, which I feel isn't dissimilar to the same kind of niche most MMO's go after: the WoW crowd.

EDIT: See below.

Edited by El Duderino, 06 December 2013 - 05:14 PM.


#16 Konzacelt

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 04:54 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 06 December 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

I sincerely doubt that anybody but a group of passionate, perhaps naive, and definitely independent developers could get close to making another game that might see some of the beauty a few of us found in Guild Wars 1's simplicity - and it's depth.

You should have put those words in bold print...

#17 El Duderino

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 06 December 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

You should have put those words in bold print...

Thanks, you made me smile. Editing now. :)

#18 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:26 PM

Could they fix it, YES if there was a wish to do so, but sadly enough i don`t think that anyone in Anet realizes that GW2 is nothing more than pale shadow of game that was GW1 !!!

I can give so many examples but i think it would be a waste of time, so i`m gonna point out of what i think are the biggest flaws of GW2:

1.Absolutely no endgame (if you don`t farm for endgame gear you have very little to nothing to do once you hit max level)

This one is absolute necessity for any MMO game, you need hamster wheel to keep people occupied until you bring expansion and give them higher level new races, profession and new gear tier.It may sounds as grind but people that play MMO`s are so much acustomed to this that they barely notice it as such.If you craft you top-notch armor what will be exact motivation to visit dungeons and raid instances if you already done them ? Anet`s short sight on this cost them N0.1 MMO title and they still believe that they have made something original !

2.Where are the damn rewards ?

You know that trip when you teach your dog tricks, once he figures out what you want from him and does it you give poor soul a reward so he would continue to make you happy. Anet does not throw a bone even if you are starving, for game that has based itself as cosmetic not power up game this is very strange and irritating but they stick to it like it`s end of the world question !

3.Guilds, GvG, Castles

Guild is something very special in MMO`s when properly made and managed it`s place to be and LOVE with all your heart. I am die hard fan of guilds and trough my years of playing MMO`s i met so many amazing people and had so much fun in them. In GW2 guilds barely have any meaning there is no guild halls (one of my most loved places in GW1) there is no GvG (yet bunch of people run guild runs in WvW without putting on commander tags and by doing so crap on game experience of those guildless and from small guilds that don`t have big WvW population). GvG couldn`t hurt but Anet makes stone face anytime someone says this out loud !
WvW is battle for your server, GvG would be for prestige of guilds yet somehow it does not tickle the imagination of Anet how can another PvP mode hurt game it can only make it better !

4.Raid instances

It does not matter if they are 12 or 24 man, that aside GW2 has scalable content so they can make this work, but why they don`t do it ?
This is enigma since this content is present in any other MMO title and even GW1 had it, why do they continue to ignore it as valid content that would be very interesting to many players ? Let`s say it`s prestige mode but what`s wrong with that if I or anyone else invest a lot of time and endure hardness of it all why should i not have bragging rights on my success (some exclusive armor, remember FOW) or weapons. After all those wouldn`t fall into someones lap with zero work !

5.Achievements

Compare it to GW1 and you will see that GW2 achievements make no sense and certainly don`t give you anything to be proud of. They make no sense since you get them for something so ordinary and ridiculously easy as daylies !
In GW1 i was proud to every last one of my achievements here i simply don`t care for any of them. Even the most shiny item you can get (Legendary) is just few clicks away on TP if you want it, where is the freaking achievement in this ? You farmed gold, you used real cash and sold gems......? No sense of achievement at all, this might be maybe biggest flaw of this game !

#19 Datenshi92

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 09:54 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 06 December 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Isn't it quite ironic to state something like this when ArenaNet was created by people that used to work for Blizzard?

At least the original creators had the courage to deviate from the stale formula that is today's MMOs and make something unique. They weren't aiming at making a "WoW-killer". I'll be honest, GW2 feels like it was made with a partially wrong intent, they wanted to make it "similar but different" and it didn't worked that well, either they lacked the skill for it or the time. Its neither "Wow-esque" enough for the classic lovers and nor is it innovative enough for those who wanted something more original ala GW1.

But you're right that it is an irony.

Edited by Datenshi92, 06 December 2013 - 09:55 PM.


#20 Brizna

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:16 AM

Yeah, tittles in GW2 are meaningless I am still runing "Champion on the mists" on all my character just becuase I like the ring of it.

I still remember how much you had work/difficulty was involved in GW1's tittles, those meant something even if eventually everyone got them, they werent's just given like in GW2, we earnt them.

#21 ExplosivePinata

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:38 AM

Quote

It is nice to think that ANet could bring these things back under the GW2 banner, but it is impossible. I doubt they could even get it right if they made a Guild Wars 3. The people that made this game aren't the same people that made the original, and even in GW1, the people that were ultimately in charge of the game failed many times to grasp why some things were inherently so good in the game.


This is pretty much it. The more and more things that are introduced make me scratch my head thinking in bewilderment. Even the map designers must be gone. Look what they did to Kessex. It's all just playdough and grey sand at this point. That might not be fair though, when I seen a pink pony flying towards Maw I knew there was hope for my depression :qq:

Edited by ExplosivePinata, 08 December 2013 - 05:42 AM.


#22 turtledragon

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 07:23 AM

View PostLIVESTRONGG, on 05 December 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

The other big thing I think would help ALL areas of PvE would be.... UNIQUE ITEMS FOR DIFFERENT AREAS. Who didn't like IDS farming in a cave in the middle of nowhere and how unique that was, or any of the GW1 dungeons, BDS farming and all those high end weaons. It would cause alot more people to be in different areas than just the handful there are now. I honestly think this is the one thing I want to see the most.
This would be cool but it wouldn't work in this games economy or business model. Most new items and skins are only going to come from the gem store.

#23 Phineas Poe

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 07:06 PM

View PostDatenshi92, on 06 December 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

At least the original creators had the courage to deviate from the stale formula that is today's MMOs and make something unique. They weren't aiming at making a "WoW-killer". I'll be honest, GW2 feels like it was made with a partially wrong intent, they wanted to make it "similar but different" and it didn't worked that well, either they lacked the skill for it or the time. Its neither "Wow-esque" enough for the classic lovers and nor is it innovative enough for those who wanted something more original ala GW1.

But you're right that it is an irony.

Not that I disagree that Guild Wars 2 in a lot of respects caters to the WoW crowd, but isn't the rejection of dedicates tanks and healers a deviation from the formula? Isn't the Living Story in place of expansions a rejection of standard MMO content models, too?

#24 Datenshi92

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:02 PM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 08 December 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

Not that I disagree that Guild Wars 2 in a lot of respects caters to the WoW crowd, but isn't the rejection of dedicates tanks and healers a deviation from the formula? Isn't the Living Story in place of expansions a rejection of standard MMO content models, too?

That's why I mentioned "partially" and "similar but different".
Its not WoW-esque enough because it deviates from the holy trinity formula and because it replaces expansions with dynamic events, but its still not enough, the core is still lacking. Nonetheless, I won't deny that at least they tried to make some relatively different, even if flawed. A bad step is still a step... and it could have been worse.

Edited by Datenshi92, 08 December 2013 - 11:03 PM.


#25 Skyward

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:56 PM

I don't think special elite areas have anything to do with this. What we see is that players like to grind. So the main question is: get back to the experience over time concept or encourage more grinding. Obviously the last thing is the most easy way to add content and generate money. That being said I don't think its an option to create some kind of elite gameplay like GW1 FoW because only a small dedicated group of players would participate. Maybe Anet should focus more on solo gameplay and add new story content accessable for any  high level chr, with decent rewards.

Edited by Skyward, 08 December 2013 - 11:57 PM.


#26 FoxBat

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 02:50 AM

While any attempt at a GW2 "HoH" would really have absolutely nothing in common with GW1, there are some people who seem to love the new "GvG". PvP is doing badly enough that they could experiment with that, starting with simply allowing expansion of custom arena player numbers, maybe an option to disable cap scoring, and watch what happens.

Edited by FoxBat, 09 December 2013 - 02:51 AM.


#27 leongrado

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 03:18 AM

GW1 PvP was fun because there were distinct roles and builds. Yeah there was the problem with only a few builds being viable for each profession but at least you kinda knew what to expect and you felt like your were a valued member of the team. If you saw a Ranger with a staff or wand, chances are this guy was a toucher(hated these).

Playing PvP and even PvE just feels like everyone has a limbo role and aren't really reliant on each other at all. Just a bunch of spells and attacks flying around and eventually people die if you hit them enough...

#28 Datenshi92

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:23 PM

View Postleongrado, on 09 December 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

GW1 PvP was fun because there were distinct roles and builds. Yeah there was the problem with only a few builds being viable for each profession but at least you kinda knew what to expect and you felt like your were a valued member of the team. If you saw a Ranger with a staff or wand, chances are this guy was a toucher(hated these).

Playing PvP and even PvE just feels like everyone has a limbo role and aren't really reliant on each other at all. Just a bunch of spells and attacks flying around and eventually people die if you hit them enough...

I don't think that's an entirely bad thing, unpredictability is a double-edge sword that offers both frustration and challenges. In order to make you more self-reliant, they had to sacrifice team work, however, if you pile up everyone's self-reliability, you can achieve some really amazing things with coordination. Its important to know your team and what role you could fill it to help everyone. I happen to have a groupie whom I regular play with and we all have our specific roles that fill in each other's gaps. We still fail sometimes, because we derp or because we're distracted, but overall we know what to do and when to do it and we generally succeed pretty well in our dungeon runs and WvWvW.

#29 Featherman

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:50 PM

View PostDatenshi92, on 09 December 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

I don't think that's an entirely bad thing, unpredictability is a double-edge sword that offers both frustration and challenges. In order to make you more self-reliant, they had to sacrifice team work, however, if you pile up everyone's self-reliability, you can achieve some really amazing things with coordination. Its important to know your team and what role you could fill it to help everyone. I happen to have a groupie whom I regular play with and we all have our specific roles that fill in each other's gaps. We still fail sometimes, because we derp or because we're distracted, but overall we know what to do and when to do it and we generally succeed pretty well in our dungeon runs and WvWvW.
Complete randomness or too much variety won't allow for Yomi either.

I think a good example a large number of build variety would be competitive Pokemon. Each pokemon has static and variable elements. Base stats and typing are the static elements. EV, hold items, moves, and to a lesser extent IVs are variable elements. Players are use static elements as well knowledge of common builds to actually bluff and execute level 2 Yomi with variable elements. Since EVs and moves can't be changed within a match the opponent can formulate their own counter, although some bluffs can be pivotal and win matches if the opponent's team is poorly constructed or significantly worn down. This works on top of the paper rock scissors type of gameplay intrinsic to Pokemon's turn based format.

Back on topic, if ANet will win back my respect if they find some way to implement that counterplay and variety into PvP.

Edited by Featherman, 09 December 2013 - 01:13 PM.


#30 ManMadeGod

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:35 AM

View PostMiragee, on 05 December 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Hm. I think you miss the point of fun in the game as a core-factor of what is wrong. I don't play pvp in gw2 because it's flat. It's boring. It's not fun. Fun should be the first incentive in any game/mode to play it. Change rewards won't make it any more fun to play.

Bingo!
What else can I say?
I still play gw1 random arena sometimes, just for fun. I don't care about reward.
It's about skill, builds and FUN.




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