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#31 artemist

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:05 PM

I would rather see special recipe that upgrades your existing armor to ascended level...

#32 Brandon the Don

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:08 PM

View Postartemist, on 11 December 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

I would rather see special recipe that upgrades your existing armor to ascended level...

Instead of reskinning I absolutely agree... Especially since I already carry a minimum of 2 sets per character which I really adore :D

... though I should be the last one to complain, since I will likely start crafting those ascended armours when I feel like it...

Edited by Brandon the Don, 11 December 2013 - 06:08 PM.


#33 xarallei

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:41 PM

Eek, these are kind of ugly. Oh well, I have plenty of outfits to transmog them into I guess. Kind of a shame I have to though.

#34 typographie

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:13 PM

Low-res screenshots of the game using uncertain graphic settings and default dyes with JPEG compression don't really flatter any of the armors in the game. In game, I do think the ascended armors are considerably more intricate than most others, and with nice dyes (and on certain races) they can look quite good.

That's not to say I plan to use the default appearances on any of my characters.

View PostEl Duderino, on 11 December 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

I just don't understand why the textures in GW2 aren't nearly as good as the textures from GW1.

Sigh. Okay, I'll bite. What makes you think GW1 has objectively better texture quality than GW2? That doesn't even make sense.

Edited to be less outraged. :P

Edited by typographie, 11 December 2013 - 07:25 PM.


#35 El Duderino

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:21 PM

View Posttypographie, on 11 December 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:


Sigh. Okay, I'll bite. What makes you think GW1 has objectively better texture quality than GW2? That doesn't even make sense.


View PostFeatherman, on 11 December 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

I think they're overdesigned and overly intricate. What kills it for me, though, is that the armors looks like the armors are made out of plastic and are really flat. They lack the texture and dimension needed for that level of detail. They don't look none too practical either if we're looking at them from that standpoint.

View PostFeathermoore, on 22 November 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

The helm and boots are a little different and the chest plate is a bit different in shape. The main thing for me is the texture though. The armor in GW1 almost looks like stone. In GW2 is looks like plastic. I think the helm in GW2 is better, but the spikes are much more... organic? in GW1.

I also miss the scar/paint patterns. I remember how cool it was when I finally got the 15k bone lace or the 1.5k monk armor (I loved the combo of tattoo and cloth). Or the Kurzick Ritualist armors. The only Obsidian armor I liked was the necromancer, but man was that cool.

I think these posts sum it up nicely. Almost every armor in GW2 looks flat, 2D and plastic. They just don't look like they have texture. Fabric doesn't look like fabric, metal doesn't look like metal, everything looks like plastic.

I guess it's just a personal opinion, but I really think that there just isn't much depth or detail to the textures in GW2 as compared to GW1 - which is odd considering they are based off the same engine.

#36 Featherman

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:34 PM

It's the shaders and their glow effect. They add sheen but not depth. For me, the game looks better with shaders set to medium because of how glossy they make everything look.

#37 Crimson Blade

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:57 PM

more awful looking armour, is this the same team that designed the GW1 armour? If this was the best they could come up with, i'd dread to see what was knocked back.

How about some more throw back armours to the good old days? Recreate Scar armour and Obsidian Armour? (Can tell I played Necro even back then)

#38 Minion

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:15 AM

View PostCrimson Blade, on 11 December 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

more awful looking armour, is this the same team that designed the GW1 armour?

Lead art designer quit before GW2 even launched. http://kekai.blogspo...l-arenanet.html

#39 Phineas Poe

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:01 AM

View Posttypographie, on 11 December 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Sigh. Okay, I'll bite. What makes you think GW1 has objectively better texture quality than GW2? That doesn't even make sense.

Guild Wars 1 armor looks like this.

Guild Wars 2 armor looks like this.

I don't understand how anyone could possibly think that GW1 textures look better than GW2 textures unless they're running the game out of a cereal box. At maximum settings (I agree with Featherman on the subject of shaders, though) GW2 blows GW1 out of the water. With everything. Including the water. And armor. You can even watch your beautiful armor textures reflected in the water.

I don't think that the ascended armor skins are totally hideous. If anything, I find it kind of nice that they come out with medium armor that isn't a trench coat and light armor that isn't a robe. Even though they're not skins I would gear onto my characters, I think they do provide an alternative to all the trench coats and robes that scholar and adventurer classes are stuck with right now. And even though I may not wear the full set, I might find use for one or two pieces to mix-and-match with others.

Edited by Phineas Poe, 12 December 2013 - 09:04 AM.


#40 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:37 AM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 12 December 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

Guild Wars 1 armor looks like this.

Guild Wars 2 armor looks like this.

GW1 picture: low-res picture from 2005, with shitty colouring, in a location with shitty lighting, featuring low-end gear.
GW2 picture: SweetFX'ed shot, dyed to perfection, featuring high-end gear.

I like your style!



Having said that, I certainly think that GW2 armour is technically better, but it's simply much worse artistically (I wonder if one could find a better word for that?): probably the result of going for quantity over quality. The fact that they needed to create a set for a single body shape in GW1 made things much more easier than having to design armours for 5 races, with tons of variation in body shape in the races themselves. There's just so many options that are present in GW2 for the simple sake of simply being there: the game certainly failed to harness its potential.




EDIT:
Dammit Scrufflebutt! I thought this was the armour thread: best add my view on ascended gear's looks to make it a bit more on-topic.
The issue with this gear is that its value mostly comes from its looks: sure, they are BiS gear, but because of the insanely poor implementation of vertical progression, you don't want this gear just for the stats, you want to show off the fact that you got this gear. But you can only do that with the items' visuals and the ascended gear visuals have been absolutely appalling.

This just all shows what a shitty addition ascended gear is: it doesn't really make sense as a +stats addition, and then its looks are so poor that it doesn't even make sense as a vanity addition. This was a quick answer to the fact that the game has no end-game and everything about this gear screams (not just stats and looks, but also its acquisition) that quality control took a back seat to the need to put it out there as soon as possible.

Edited by Baron von Scrufflebutt, 12 December 2013 - 02:17 PM.


#41 Exo Dyo

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:18 AM

I agree with the people. Some of the GW1 armors might look nicer then some of the GW2 armors, but still the textures were much much worse then it is in GW2.

Futhermore, I was hoping that the ascended armor would look great. Well, atleast greater then most of the exotic armors. But sadly, it is quite the other way around. Lucky for us, we can transmute so I'll get them anyway for the stats.

#42 Featherman

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:25 AM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 12 December 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

Guild Wars 2 armor looks like this.
Lol GW2 armor does not look like that 99% of the time.

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 12 December 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Having said that, I certainly think that GW2 armour is technically better, but it's simply much worse artistically (I wonder if one could find a better word for that?): probably the result of going for quantity over quality. The fact that they needed to create a set for a single body shape in GW1 made things much more easier than having to design armours for 5 races, with tons of variation in body shape in the races themselves. There's just so many options that are present in GW2 for the simple sake of simply being there: the game certainly failed to harness its potential.
Fidelity vs artistic style? An effective/appealing art style can can keep low fidelity games like Wind Waker looking great in comparison to modern games.

I personally never really cared much for GW1's armor, but I find many of the armor sets in GW2 to be grating, especially the light and medium sets. Light armors use the same silhouette so they come off as overdesigned variants of the same set of armor. The one set I do like is the male heritage armor because of how simple and unique it is. Medium armors run the gamut of ugly trench coat to tolerable trench coat and the ones that aren't trenchcoats have no business being armor (*cough* human female tier 3 *cough*) .

Edited by Featherman, 12 December 2013 - 12:15 PM.


#43 Minion

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:42 AM

Well, I will never be able to create anything as good as my necromancer, revered among all mortals as the successor to Verata himself...

Posted Image

Compare the armour against anything from GW2 and you will see immediately why we prefer some of the art choices in Guild Wars. It had dark choices that looked organic. Look at the spikes from the Obsidian gloves and the blood from the ancient legs. The detail in the 15k scar pattern without being horribly over-detailed. It was intricate and beautiful at the same time; there was an obvious symmetrical pattern. With some of the weapons and ascended armours in GW2, the intricacy is taken to ludicrous levels where it no longer appears elegant or even flamboyant... It's ugly.

#44 Senatic

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:10 PM

Yep, very disappointed in almost all armors they've made post release, and a lot of the ones pre release as well. In game armor design is just not on the same level as their concept artists designs are.

#45 El Duderino

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:28 PM

View PostMinion, on 12 December 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Well, I will never be able to create anything as good as my necromancer, revered among all mortals as the successor to Verata himself...

Posted Image

Compare the armour against anything from GW2 and you will see immediately why we prefer some of the art choices in Guild Wars. It had dark choices that looked organic. Look at the spikes from the Obsidian gloves and the blood from the ancient legs. The detail in the 15k scar pattern without being horribly over-detailed. It was intricate and beautiful at the same time; there was an obvious symmetrical pattern. With some of the weapons and ascended armours in GW2, the intricacy is taken to ludicrous levels where it no longer appears elegant or even flamboyant... It's ugly.

I agree completely. Perhaps we are not the target audience of the teenie bopper bubble gum look and feel of this new ANet game?

Except for that, "if you love Guild Wars you will love Guild Wars 2" part....

#46 konsta_hoptrop

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:25 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 11 December 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

I just don't understand why the textures in GW2 aren't nearly as good as the textures from GW1.


What are you talking about man... Look at my GW2 war and my GW1 war both games on max settings 1080p
Posted Image


[img=http://s24.postimg.org/t5rkhwft1/gw24455.jpg]


[img=http://s23.postimg.org/6k4mo4vln/gw002.jpg]


GW2 models and designs are better for heavy armor especially. Graphics are much better too. I know that you miss some gw1 options and pvp mdoes and so on but gw2 armor textures are levels above gw1 textures

Edited by konsta_hoptrop, 12 December 2013 - 01:36 PM.


#47 El Duderino

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:47 PM

View Postkonsta_hoptrop, on 12 December 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:




What are you talking about man... Look at my GW2 war and my GW1 war both games on max settings 1080p
Posted Image


[img=http://s24.postimg.org/t5rkhwft1/gw24455.jpg]


[img=http://s23.postimg.org/6k4mo4vln/gw002.jpg]


GW2 models and designs are better for heavy armor especially. Graphics are much better too. I know that you miss some gw1 options and pvp mdoes and so on but gw2 armor textures are levels above gw1 textures

First, I think I explained already "what I was talking about" but I actually think your example is perfect for what I am  talking about. Your GW2 armor looks like green plastic army man material.

#48 konsta_hoptrop

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:55 PM

it's called 3D model... welcome to the new mmos graphics. GW1 isnt true 3d game most models are 2D . That's the difference. you like low pixel paper model looking armors ok thats your taste. I find GW2 armor models look very realistic and awesome Check links too

Edited by konsta_hoptrop, 12 December 2013 - 01:56 PM.


#49 Feathermoore

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:07 PM

Higher resolution =/= better texture style/quality. The aspect that GW2 is better in is the resolution and clarity, and yes some armors do look amazing. (Especially if you don't actually use Anet's visuals and use SweetFX like Poe's example, which you could do in GW1 as well.) The post of mine that was quoted was about armor that was designed to look like it was stone in GW1, but looked like plastic in GW2. This is obviously not true of all armors, but a lot of them do have a texture that doesn't look like the material it should.

Konsta: That actually isn't the highest level of graphics for GW1 either. You can pump it up higher that the in game settings naturally allow.


But, this is about ascended armor not armor in general. I realize that this conversation's point is to explain your opinion directly to ascended's looks, but let's try and not go too far out into this conversation.

Edited by Feathermoore, 12 December 2013 - 02:09 PM.

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#50 konsta_hoptrop

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:19 PM

what's the trick with that sweetFX is it a program ?

#51 Featherman

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:15 PM

Not related to Guild Wars but I think this is realistic heavy armor done right.

Posted Image
The overall design is sensible, with just the right amount of detail to show realism without making it look ugly. The decorations are ornate without being gaudy or impractical, and they function as important elements of contrast. The textures of Dark Souls are low resolution/quality, but that just shows that you don't need insanely high graphical fidelity to render a nice set of armor.

View Postkonsta_hoptrop, on 12 December 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

it's called 3D model... welcome to the new mmos graphics. GW1 isnt true 3d game most models are 2D . That's the difference. you like low pixel paper model looking armors ok thats your taste. I find GW2 armor models look very realistic and awesome Check links too
Actually it's just different shaders. Newer games simulate 3d through a process called normal mapping, where the 3D dimensions are simulated via shaders. Needless to say GW was released before the technology could mature to what it is today.

What makes the armors look plasticy is that these shaders either simulate more sheen than shadow or that the base textures have no depth. Either way there's noticeable lack of depth. It doesn't look so bad on armors since armors are mostly metal, a material you'd expect them to shine, but it's noticeably bad on light and medium armors. The fact that metal armors bend to the character's animations makes them look less realistic, but that's a different topic altogether.

Edit: Didn't notice I posted so many errors. Note to self don't post while exhausted from finals.

Edited by Featherman, 14 December 2013 - 11:52 AM.


#52 Illein

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 12 December 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

Not related to Guild Wars but I think this is realistic heavy armor done right.

Posted Image
The overall design is sensible, with just the right amount of detail to show realism without making it look ugly. The decorations are ornate without being gaudy or impractical, and they function as important elements of contrast. The textures of Dark Souls are low resolution/quality, but that just demonstrates that you need insanely high graphical fidelity to render a nice set of armor.

Actually it's just different shaders. New games simulate 3d through a process called normal mapping, a process that where the 3D dimensions are simulated via shaders. Needless to say GW was released before the technology could mature to what it is today.

What makes the armors look plasticy is that these shaders either simulate more sheen than shadow or that the base textures have no depth. Either way there's noticeable lack of depth. It doesn't look so bad on armors since armors are mostly metal, which you'd expect them to shine, but it's noticeable bad on light and medium armors. The fact that metal armors bend to the character's animations makes them look less realistic, but that's a different topic altogether.

Not to rain on your parade, but the textures on that armor you posted are miles behind the ones we have in GW2 in-game already. The design of course is a matter of taste.

I do think we have a good handful of fancy armors now for heavies and light armors in game, but I really miss something with a bit more grit. Less Prince Valiant and more Men of the Night's Watch.

But that goes for the game as a large I suppose.

Edited by Illein, 12 December 2013 - 03:49 PM.


#53 Featherman

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:06 PM

View PostIllein, on 12 December 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Not to rain on your parade, but the textures on that armor you posted are miles behind the ones we have in GW2 in-game already. The design of course is a matter of taste.
"The textures of Dark Souls are low resolution/quality, but that just demonstrates that you don't need insanely high graphical fidelity to render a nice set of armor."

Edited by Featherman, 14 December 2013 - 04:19 PM.


#54 typographie

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:11 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 12 December 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

GW1 picture: low-res picture from 2005, with shitty colouring, in a location with shitty lighting, featuring low-end gear.
GW2 picture: SweetFX'ed shot, dyed to perfection, featuring high-end gear.

To me, that's kind of the whole point: it was an utterly ridiculous comparison from the start.

#55 Feathermoore

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:22 PM

View Postkonsta_hoptrop, on 12 December 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

what's the trick with that sweetFX is it a program ?

SweetFX is a graphical mod used to boost game graphics. Most of the images you see people post with insane level graphics that you don't seem to get on your computer are because they are taken with this 3rd party program running. It improves the shaders of the game (which GW2 has a meh shader system so it really makes a big difference).

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#56 Baldur The Bold

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:29 PM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 12 December 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

Guild Wars 1 armor looks like this.

Guild Wars 2 armor looks like this.

I don't understand how anyone could possibly think that GW1 textures look better than GW2 textures unless they're running the game out of a cereal box. At maximum settings (I agree with Featherman on the subject of shaders, though) GW2 blows GW1 out of the water. With everything. Including the water. And armor. You can even watch your beautiful armor textures reflected in the water.

I don't think that the ascended armor skins are totally hideous. If anything, I find it kind of nice that they come out with medium armor that isn't a trench coat and light armor that isn't a robe. Even though they're not skins I would gear onto my characters, I think they do provide an alternative to all the trench coats and robes that scholar and adventurer classes are stuck with right now. And even though I may not wear the full set, I might find use for one or two pieces to mix-and-match with others.

What Sweet FX settings are you using? I like the depth of field :)

#57 Hybarf Tics

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:29 PM

I don't know about the rest of you, for the first year I supported Anet fully by buying gems worth a few hundreds, but now that I've seen their patterns of putting everything nice in store and mostly crap for game release. My support for the store has fallen to zero there will be no support at all from me for 2014 and beyond not until I see armors added for gold or karma. Besides all my 8 characters are well advanced 1 for each professions, I still enjoy the game and my characters. My support starting again also depends on the following 4 words "new elder dragon expansion" if I don't see those 4 words by summer this game will be dead for me indefinitely. Why this rant, because they've turned away from the main story and added game items in favor of our wallet trough the living story store aka Lion's Arch store. I remember during development when asked about added stuff's look. The answer was, no, no rest assured  we will never give you crappy stuff in favor of better looking stuff in store there will be a balance. Famous last word, Anet I've lost faith in your creativity and promises.

#58 kalendraf

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:42 PM

View PostIllein, on 11 December 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

Daniel Dociu actually explained already, how Arena Net's philosophy is on playership minority-armors. Which amounted to "We put our focus on what people play most. We can't put as much time into Charr armors i.e. as we put into Human armors while 60% of our players are human."
Only 60% of players are human?  Unless there's a bunch of intelligent animals, aliens or AI out there playing GW2, I would expect 100% of players to be human.  Their characters on the other hand...

#59 Atticus

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:36 PM

View PostMinion, on 12 December 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Well, I will never be able to create anything as good as my necromancer, revered among all mortals as the successor to Verata himself...

Posted Image

Compare the armour against anything from GW2 and you will see immediately why we prefer some of the art choices in Guild Wars. It had dark choices that looked organic. Look at the spikes from the Obsidian gloves and the blood from the ancient legs. The detail in the 15k scar pattern without being horribly over-detailed. It was intricate and beautiful at the same time; there was an obvious symmetrical pattern. With some of the weapons and ascended armours in GW2, the intricacy is taken to ludicrous levels where it no longer appears elegant or even flamboyant... It's ugly.

I have to agree, I do miss the art direction they had in much of GW1 where they weren't afraid to get really creative with armor. In GW2 however everything feels fairly... safe, and even when they try to create something intricate or highly detailed its usually just ugly and impracticable. Take for example Ascended weapons and armor, sure there's tons of detail but unless you zoom right in on the character you miss the vast majority of the detail work. The only mitigating factor is by and large the armors and weapons are ugly enough on their own the most players don't need to zoom in to notice just how ugly they really are.

This also illustrates another problem for ArenaNet, specifically in relation to Ascended Armor, it just looks... amateur. It's cluttered and jumbled and looks like it was created by someone who had no basic working knowledge of what works on armor in a 3rd person isometric game. And I'm glossing over the poorly rendered textures used in the skin itself and the relatively bad overall design on the armor itself (come on remove the textures from the heavy armor breastplate and it's a freaking barrel strapped to your characters chest).

All in all horribly letdown, by many things really but this is definitely one of them. The worst part is I'm completely sure someone in ArenaNet saw this armor for the mess it is and pushed it out the door in this state anyway and that doesn't give me a ton of confidence in ArenaNet's quality standards anymore.

Edited by Atticus, 12 December 2013 - 11:38 PM.


#60 Minion

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:47 PM

View Postkalendraf, on 12 December 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

Only 60% of players are human?  Unless there's a bunch of intelligent animals, aliens or AI out there playing GW2, I would expect 100% of players to be human.  Their characters on the other hand...

Oh, very drôle...




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