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Guardian Monk 1.0 and Paladin 3.0 Builds

guild wars 2 guardian paladin build monk build gw2

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#1 Silentstorma

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:03 AM



Build Link= http://full.sc/1bEBrhA

It's been a long time since I done a GW2 build. Today i'm updating my outdated Beserker 3.0. That naming line is done. I'm calling the build Monk from here on out. Because it will orbit around the Meditation traits. However everything from the previous Monk build remains in theory.

New to the build is Litany of Wrath. This is a very curious skill. That may not even be worth it most times. Because it has ramp up which leaves you vulnerable. But if you get timing use of it down. I can be invaluable to you in dps situations. Where you would need healing. The skill gives you 20% of damage dealt is returned as healing. So the stronger and more you hit the more you get back.

If this skill isn't for you the legacy heal skills will do just fine. Again I leave zeal in the trash somewhere. I choose to keep those points for Unscathe Contender and Vigor. The builds only weakness is Guardians lack of health. Everything else from dps to team play and status removal. You can deal with in style like just changing Unscathe Contender for Master of Consecrations.

Hope you guys enjoy this one as much as Berserker 3.0. Also take note you can use 1h and 2h weapons in this build. Do your best to keep UC as much as you can.
=====================================================================



Calc Build Link= http://full.sc/1c4F57a

Ok next up on the build tour is redoing Paladin 2.0. And explaining what I use the original for and what I use 3.0 for now. What you will notice is I abandoned AH. Because it isn't being buffed, and is falling more behind. So no reason to hang onto it anymore for now. This build is mainly for WvW/Support however in fractals it works ok too. But I wouldn't use it there. Look to my new Holy Fire Guardian Build for that. No it won't be condition damage.

But if you find yourself favoring being damage/support type of guy. This is a fun way to do it and be a total pain in the ass. It has a lot of flexibility. You can go Aoe healing, Condition Removal, Damage Buffer, or WvW tank/Fractal Tank. Without ever needing to head back to the trainer. When I'm bored and want to roam WvW this is how I roll. Also when I want to be front line. But want the skill to judge the situation and change on the fly. I like game play like that so that's what this is based off of.

Reserved for the future. Also I didn't see a point in making two posts not my style.

#2 Silentstorma

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 06:59 PM

Actually that's your opinion. As you can see both people are using for PVE. But I also suggested other things to use. But someone can use it for whatever they want. Don't confuse your opinion for what gamers actually want. And that's variety flexibility and not locked into boring game play. If you don't like that be welcome to participate in another topic.

Edited by Silentstorma, 23 December 2013 - 07:01 PM.


#3 Lilitu

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:03 PM

Almost anything is viable if you don't mind wasting hours of your time.
I'd boot both these builds from any half serious fractal group though.

Edited by Ship Soo, 25 December 2013 - 12:52 AM.


#4 Epixors

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:42 PM

Why do people love Guardians? Condition Removal and Consecrations (and shouts to some extent, general boons)
What do you not have good access to? Condition Removal and Consecrations.

Edited by Ship Soo, 25 December 2013 - 12:53 AM.


#5 Mjölner

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:29 PM

Should in in the PvP section, but whatever, I guess. What I find strange is the use of five Scholar Runes and one Eagle. Why not opt for a full six? Surely that extra damage increase outdoes 25 precision?
You also say it can be a Fractal Tank. That's... kind of a waste of a party slot when you can have five good players dpsing, rather than four good players and one half-assed who wishes he could relive Ye Old MMO Days.

#6 TheNefariousOne

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:37 PM

No Master of Consecrations or Absolute Resolution in either of your builds?  These are not PvE builds because you've completely neglected to build around our two most valuable party support traits.

#7 Andemius

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:42 PM

Don't imagine I'll use either of these builds myself, but if you don't die by pressing 1 skill, then there's no reason for people to be saying this doesn't belong in pve.

I could take full clerics and go through all of pve (exception high end fractals), doesn't mean it's the best, but it's do-able.

#8 Epixors

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:52 PM

View PostAndemius, on 23 December 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

Don't imagine I'll use either of these builds myself, but if you don't die by pressing 1 skill, then there's no reason for people to be saying this doesn't belong in pve.

I could take full clerics and go through all of pve (exception high end fractals), doesn't mean it's the best, but it's do-able.

If you reason like that there's absolutely no reason to make a split between the PvE and PvP side.

#9 Andemius

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:32 AM

View PostEpixors, on 23 December 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

If you reason like that there's absolutely no reason to make a split between the PvE and PvP side.

I'm not sure how you'd come to that conclusion. Please elaborate?

In pve your foes are stupid and don't respond to standing in blind fields or shooting at reflections. People in pvp generally have more common sense than that.

I wouldn't dream of taking this into pvp, but it's certainly usable in pve. As is anything.

#10 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:21 AM

View PostSilentstorma, on 23 December 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

And the paladin build keeps people alive. Dead people don't do a whole lot of dps.

I just want to go ahead and comment on this. If people cannot keep themselves alive, that is their problem. Things like reflection and condition removal are nice conveniences, but people should still be able to manage without them. The other thing you mention about dead people not doing DPS... Well, yes, if they are defeated, they won't do any while they are currently defeated. But, a Berserker's Warrior in down state (and probably a Berserker's Guardian) would most likely be doing more damage than this Guardian build while it wasn't in down state. You also need to consider that they absolutely did more damage than you for the time they were alive, and depending on when they died in the fight, probably did more damage than you would be able to do in the entire fight. It would be nice if people kept that in mind.

#11 Andemius

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:38 AM

View PostDempsey911, on 24 December 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

Just because it is able be used does not make it either effective or viable.

If you take this kind of logic into other areas of life, then I could only assume you own a car and ride a horse.

Anything is "viable" in pve. That's just how gw2 is. That's not to say it's a good idea to use it, or that it is suited for an optimal setup team. As I say, I would not use these builds, but purely for the purpose of doing pve and the storyline, there's nothing wrong with them. They're not optimal, but for pve stuff doesn't need to be. Just don't expect to get into a speedclear team with it.

Why on earth would I apply "that'll do" logic from a game to real life?

#12 Mjölner

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 05:07 AM

WHY THE EAGLE RUNE?! *coughs* You also put this in the PvE forum, so of course we're going to call you out on it for not performing something optimally.

Quote

I only run around WvW like a unkillable beast in said builds. I use monk for PVE for fun. But I actually use another build I'm posting Christmas as primary. But I actually SAID THAT IN THE VIDEOS. And SAID IT IN THE DESCRIPTIONS. I use various builds for fun to change things up. Especially if your pugging alot. You can't be a glass cannon with 4 inexperienced people. You will have a bad time. And 70% of the game by Arena Net's own admission solo queues. So a top dps build is fine if you have a team to protect it. If you don't like most people don't. You need to defend yourself and others. Which is why my builds get used and work. And if you really think you deter that might as well quit the game now.

Run full zerker in dungeons and fractals and I only ever see players go for tankier sats/builds when they don't have the skill to survive as a zerker.

Edited by Ship Soo, 25 December 2013 - 12:56 AM.
Last part does not contribute


#13 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:52 AM

View PostSilentstorma, on 24 December 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

@Brazil
A-net said themselves in live streams. They don't want people carrying dead berserker gamers. Because it doesn't matter how much dps they did. If you have to keep picking them up they're being carried. Which is why they're trying to break all meta's. And the very last live stream. They said they're making content specifically designed to stop people from being so one track minded. And break people out of thinking they need to pressure everyone into playing that way. That's from the dev team themselves. So yea good luck with that when even the creators don't like it.

People that want to use Berserker's armor and get better will die, they will learn, and then they will improve by taking note of their failures. This happened to me, this happened to people I play with. The amount of time you spend dead on the floor is entirely up to you.

Anet has been trying to make content to "stop" Berserker's and promote bad play, but they have yet to be successful. My prediction (based on their track record) is that they will not be successful in producing this content. Why? They do not understand game mechanics, their test teams do not understand game mechanics, and things that are hard for Anet themselves are very easy for skilled players like the people that I typically play with. Anet delayed the Fractal leaderboards because they didn't expect people to get to level 50 in 2 days? Perhaps if they had someone aside from Pistol / Pistol Thieves test the content they make Anet would be able to produce something that is actually challenging. Employing people that aren't doomed to think linearly and doomed to follow directions would also help to create challenging content. Having skilled players or people that think outside of the box would also save them the hassle of having to fix dungeon exploits (which are almost always fixed by an invisible wall, and a new way to carry out the same exploit is typically found shortly after said "patch"). You can look at CoE as an example, the copious Arah jumping puzzles that have been repeatedly fixed either by invisible wall implementation or by removing consumables, and you can see that the same or similar exploits still exist. I'm sure Anet would love to fix their game, but the simple fact of the matter is that they are unable to do so. They can continue to employ these same people to test their content and they can continue to make empty promises, but that does not equate to a sufficient result. Anet should also be reminded that I am able to play how I want, which is a concept that they seem to love to press, and that I chose to play in a way that is most optimal for dungeon clear times (Berserker's armor, DPS traits, using the Evade button to avoid attacks). If the developers do not like it and try to remove that  playstyle from the game, that absolutely contradicts one of their core fundamentals. They are welcome to try to make more difficult content, but looking at the matter from a historical perspective, you are safely able to infer that this will not happen.

I really don't care if you want to use a build like the one you are promoting, I don't care if other people want to use it. I understand (and have always understood) that people think differently, people enjoy different things, and that people do things differently. I do, however, take issue when you say things like this (http://i.imgur.com/WNzMMmX.jpg), whether or not it is a joke (which is why I replied in the manner I did). You are free to debate over viability, how good you think your build is, or whatever else you may desire to challenge: I don't really mind. There are, however, mathematical, factual demonstrations that show the builds Nike and myself promote do more damage than the builds you promote and are optimal for clearing dungeons faster, and I also realize that you don't necessarily claim that your build does more damage. I'm fine with that, and I'm happy that you have your own opinions on things.

#14 Not Cookie

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 04:06 PM

View PostAndemius, on 24 December 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

I'm not sure how you'd come to that conclusion. Please elaborate?

In pve your foes are stupid and don't respond to standing in blind fields or shooting at reflections. People in pvp generally have more common sense than that.

I wouldn't dream of taking this into pvp, but it's certainly usable in pve. As is anything.

You can take anything into PvP, you're just more likely to do well if you run a good build. Same idea applies to PvE. Drop the typical 'hurr durr I PvP I'm greater than PvE spuds' mentality. People in PvP can be even less intelligent than scripted mobs, and honestly it's probably the majority.

#15 typographie

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:05 PM

View PostSilentstorma, on 24 December 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

@Brazil
A-net said themselves in live streams. They don't want people carrying dead berserker gamers. Because it doesn't matter how much dps they did. If you have to keep picking them up they're being carried. Which is why they're trying to break all meta's. And the very last live stream. They said they're making content specifically designed to stop people from being so one track minded. And break people out of thinking they need to pressure everyone into playing that way. That's from the dev team themselves. So yea good luck with that when even the creators don't like it.

What the developers say and what the developers do are not necessarily one in the same. The actual mechanics of their game are still focused on instant-death mechanics and "optional" (translation: pointless) support/control. They have made some meager attempts to increase some support traits in recent patches, but the root of the problem is that players can complete all of the content in the game without those builds, so taking them would just slow down the run for little benefit.

That's sad to me personally as well, because I'd rather we had the option of viable defense/support-oriented builds. It would indeed make the game more interesting. But I play the game that exists rather than the game I wish it was.

That being said, the idea that players in berserker's armor are "dead all the time" is an often-repeated logical fallacy. Bad players are bad players in any armor, and again, instant death mechanics generally mean that those players would likely still be dead even decked out in full Soldier's gear. Many, many players without a single added point of toughness, vitality or healing power are successfully completing dungeons faster than you may even realize is possible.

Edited by typographie, 24 December 2013 - 06:08 PM.


#16 Archaes

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 08:41 PM

Congratulations! You've all been so flamebait-y and off-topic that you've actually gotten my attention. Here's what's wrong with this discussion:

1. No one has even bothered to provide Silentstorm with a respectable critique of his work (the respectable part is super important). If you can't foster helpful discussion, don't bother posting.

2. A few people mentioned that forums are venue for critique. This is true, but at GW2Guru, critique is not "Boooooo! Get off the stage! *tomato volley*".

3. Watch your tones. Most of you read as aggressive and/or defensive. This is a forum, not the damn Hunger Games.


So please, from this point on, keep the discussion productive. Thank you. :cool:
If you have a question about moderating issues or just want to talk, feel free to  PM me here. :)

#17 Andemius

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:37 PM

View PostNot Cookie, on 24 December 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

You can take anything into PvP, you're just more likely to do well if you run a good build. Same idea applies to PvE. Drop the typical 'hurr durr I PvP I'm greater than PvE spuds' mentality. People in PvP can be even less intelligent than scripted mobs, and honestly it's probably the majority.

Alright, lets take a look at why I'm saying this is useable in pve. Because *someone* (post's been removed) said it won't work in pve thus should be in pvp. That's simply not the case. For me, these builds are lacking in what I would want from a guardian in pve, reflection, protection, stability (firefields?). I'm not terribly keen on the heal either, but it has it's uses. All these are, I know, swapoutable. However, unless you're aiming for speedclear teams, these builds are fine for the vast majority of pve. If I wanted to take a guard into wvw for roaming purposes, I'd perhaps consider something similar.

I would not take them into pvp, due to the fact that I simply know better than to take a build from any forums and accept it as brilliant. Like it or not pvp is a different animal to pve, granted not by as much as it was in gw1. These builds have been posted in the pve forums, and are okay to take into nearly any instance in pve without worrying. Simply being sub-optimal does not justify saying they don't belong in pve.

Bottom line, both builds are okay for pve. They're not optimal, but they're not terrible either. I'd suggest dropping some of the defensive traits in favor of more damage traits, but that depends how you want to play.

#18 Nikephoros

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 10:43 PM

View PostArchaes, on 24 December 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

1. No one has even bothered to provide Silentstorm with a respectable critique of his work (the respectable part is super important). If you can't foster helpful discussion, don't bother posting.

I could give a mountain of respectable critique but I'll just give one.  One that is an example of the extreme lack of thought and effort he puts into his build as a result of 1.  not understanding the game, 2.  not being able to play the game at anything resembling a high level and 3.  not having the decency to understand his own shortcomings.

So in the OP his first build the "monk build" he includes a build link.  This build is so shabbily constructed that it is an insult to anyone who would take the time to look at it.  Notice the weapon chosen is a greatsword with no swap weapon selected.  No swap weapon?  Correct, because why would anyone bother adding a swap weapon to their guide in a guide that they intended to be taken seriously?  I KNOW RIGHT?  Next we come to armor.  Full zerker looks fi... WAIT... two random Celestial pieces.  Well this is odd.  Is there some mathematical analysis done explaining why?  No, well you'd think so if this was a meaningful guide, wouldn't you?  I would expect some valid reasoning behind that choice other than "you probably want around 14k health."  That isn't meaningful analysis.  Its worth mentioning that there are BETTER ways to get to whatever arbitrary hp and toughness breakpoint he i looking to get than adding two random celestial pieces, but that sort of thing would be what you'd expect in a good build.

Next we go to Trinkets and we see full Zer... oh wait some random Valkyries pieces.  Are these added in here just to, again, hit some arbitrary hp breakpoint?  It appears so, though the author never indicates why hitting this breakpoint is important.  at least he went through the effort to make it full ascen... oh wait there is one random exotic piece?  What?  I don't understand that.  Let's say I was the type of person to make a buiild guide, but I didn't have full ascended gear yet on my personal toon.  Would I make the written build guide with full ascended anyway in order to show the ideal?  Or would I make it with the isolated exotic piece that I actually have in game?  I think the answer is: if I was the type of person who cared about his audience and presenting something well-done and respectable, I would put in the effort to show it as it should be.

Moving on to runes and sigils.  Wow 5x Scholar 1x Eagle... AND NO EXPLANATION OF WHY?  OK maybe this is a super glassy build and it would be hard to keep above the 90% threshold... Wait no it has almost 400 unnecessary Toughness and 14k vitality ON A GUARDIAN WHICH IS NATURALLY TANKY from Blind Spam and Aegis.  It is trivial to keep above 90% in that case.  Guess what this shows, if you analyze it: the author is so bad at the game that even in a build that unecessarily piles on Toughness and Vitality he cannot keep himself above 90% health for 24.5% of the time because he simply isn't good enough to do so.  This is the person who is making guides?  A guy who can't even maintain Scholar Runes?  Wow.

OK, about the 5/1 Rune split.  Did it occur to the Author that a Ruby Orb would be infinitely better in that 6th slot, if he was admittedly unable to maintain Scholar, than the Eagle Rune?  Probably not.  Is 25 Precision better than 20 Power, 14 Precision and 2% crit damage?  Not if you are using math, or you know, some kind of analytic function.

Lets finish up with the Traits since this is running on and I've made my point several times over already.  Is the piddly heals from Monks Focus superior, in any way, to putting those 10 trait points into Zeal for a 10% base damage modifier along with 100 Power?  Ignore that for a second, are the heals in any way substantively better than Altruistic Healing?  No?  Then why pick Monks Focus, especially considering the heals are inferior and it locks you into using your Utility skills on Meditations, which are among the worst possible Guardian utilities to pick, if you want to actually support your team and be useful and valuable.

Edited by Archaes, 25 December 2013 - 01:40 AM.
Edited. You made it all the way up to "man-child". :l


#19 Epixors

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 10:48 PM

View PostArchaes, on 24 December 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Congratulations! You've all been so flamebait-y and off-topic that you've actually gotten my attention. Here's what's wrong with this discussion:

1. No one has even bothered to provide Silentstorm with a respectable critique of his work (the respectable part is super important). If you can't foster helpful discussion, don't bother posting.

2. A few people mentioned that forums are venue for critique. This is true, but at GW2Guru, critique is not "Boooooo! Get off the stage! *tomato volley*".

3. Watch your tones. Most of you read as aggressive and/or defensive. This is a forum, not the damn Hunger Games.


So please, from this point on, keep the discussion productive. Thank you. :cool:

I suppose we must have done a really great job then because I have literally never seen you around, ever.

You can't expect my tone to be friendly or even neutral now because of the OP and because of your reply to our actions trying to actually help out the newer players.

I guess I should give some constructive feedback so here goes.

Here's a spreadsheet comparing this Monk 1.0 build and the typical 10/30/0/5/25 build: https://docs.google....NFE&usp=sharing

Build A is the Monk one, build B the 10/30/0/5/25

Things taking into account for with the Monk build:
- Sigils were never specified, so I picked none assuming the author would use something like Life or Water
- I gave him a full berserker set because I cba to manually enter the celestial pieces, so this is a DPS upgrade for the monk build
- Switched the valkyrie trinkets to berserker because once again I cba to manually enter them
- Food is 100 power 70 prec, for fair comparison I used the same on build B
- Both use a dungeon potion
- Both have the same amount of boons active.
- Neither have Unscathed Contender because picking MoC or UC happens under the same circumstances so it's just something to create bigger numbers.

Conclusion: Build B's damage is over 77,87% better than build A's damage WHILE providing the things a Guardian should bring to a dungeon. I say over because I added the berserker pieces instead of celestial, if I used those the difference would be even greater.

So why do I think he should not advice this build to new players:

- It doesn't enhance/bring the core reason to bring a Guardian: Wall of Reflect and condition removal (EDIT: and that we can do it while doing good DPS)
- It doesn't bring a blast finisher (Focus does have one)
- It doesn't bring fire fields
- It doesn't bring good damage
- It has less access to Aegis (no shout cooldown and virtues recharge is longer), author never even mentions Aegis at all.
- The author obviously never even bothered to calculate it, and I quote: "I'm just trying to mix-and-match and change over things. I'm just playing around with this one."
- The author obviously doesn't have a lot of experience in the game either, I quote: "You're probably gonna get hit while you're doing this type of skill. The reason why you're going to get hit is because this has ramp-up time.", "I would suggest getting to 14k" (health)

Clearly never heard of actively mitigating damage.

Have fun.

EDIT: I just read Nike's post and noticed it had Valkyrie's pieces, never even noticed that as it wasn't even shown in the video and the OP didn't even go over his gear properly (didn't go over anything properly for that matter).

Edited by Epixors, 24 December 2013 - 10:53 PM.


#20 Kattar

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:41 PM

Okay, that's enough of that.

Regardless of how wrong someone may be, responding with hostility isn't going to get your point across any better. It will only make things more difficult for you in the long run.

You are fooling yourself, user. Nothing here is what it seems. ANet is not the plucky hero, Guru is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena.



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