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If GW2 married Skyrim

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#1 Nabuko Darayon

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 11:34 AM

I think that game would rock the world. They really should learn from each other. I just bought Skyrim LE on Steam and I can't get enough of it. Flaws of both can be seem in the other game. Here are so far who did best at what part:

Guild Wars 2:
- combat system
- underwater exploring
- beautiful world
- Quaggans!
- no level grind
- Hearts and DE's!!
- holidays
- Tyria feels much more alive (no repetitions of the same houses, areas, etc...)

Skyrim:
- awesome Class system (you start at nothing, then choose what you want to learn even though you can level it all)
- seemingly randomized dragon attacks
- First-view camera (although I rarely use it since I like to watch my surroundings)
- housing, horse riding
- people in town actually respond to you very well (awesome rumor system of your deeds)
- beautiful world

#2 Robsy128

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 12:28 PM

Would this be an MMO or a single-player game? Because I know of a single-player game currently in development that combines those features and has more :P

#3 Fireheart

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 01:04 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 01 January 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Would this be an MMO or a single-player game? Because I know of a single-player game currently in development that combines those features and has more :P

Which single player game is it?

#4 Miragee

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 01:45 PM

Well, GW2 combat would probably fit very well into a single player TESO-like game. If it's an MMO with pvp and such: hell no. The combat is so bad for that.
Also Hearts...you can't be serious. They are bottom-barrel of uncreativeness for standard MMO-quests to be completed in a boring manner. DE's, as I said many times, would fit a game with an existing quest system very well.
Repetition of landmarks: I fell that neither of the games have a huge problem with that while they certainly aren't a pinnacle of an example for not-repetitive landmarks, either.
lol'ed at no level grind. GW2 has huge level grind. And especially tons more level grind than Skyrim since the latter is a Single Player more or less Sandbox.

#5 Robsy128

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 03:18 PM

View PostFireheart, on 01 January 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Which single player game is it?

Can't say just yet as I'm involved in the development. All I can say is that something like this is being made. I'm not too sure about the whole housing idea, though. Did people really like that in Skyrim? I just found it kind of pointless...

Maybe this should be moved to Gamer's Lair as well?

#6 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 03:49 PM

View PostNabuko Darayon, on 01 January 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Skyrim:
- awesome Class system (you start at nothing, then choose what you want to learn even though you can level it all)

I don't know much about Skyrim, but I am somewhat aware of the class system, and I'd love to see that in an MMO.  Build the class in the way you want it, let people divine their own classes.  Yes, there would be specific "good" builds, leaving the many variety of builds unused.  But I think that's okay, those build would be the player-defined cookie cutter classes of other MMOs, while other builds are for fun.  As long as the meta builds are well balanced I think it's fine.  But a game where everyone starts out as just a regular nobody then build their own class give it a fun realism.

I don't envy the balance team on that one however. lol

View PostMiragee, on 01 January 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Also Hearts...you can't be serious. They are bottom-barrel of uncreativeness for standard MMO-quests to be completed in a boring manner.

I actually like the heart system.  At least for intro maps.  They provide a breadcrumb system that give you a reason to move about the map.  Draw you in to exploring all areas.  At higher levels it does seem to start feeling more grindy.  And you're always hoping to hit one of those DEs that spawn waves of enemies, as it's usually enough to pop off the heart in no time.

Now when I design MY MMO............. lol okay, back to the real world. :)

#7 Miragee

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 05:12 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 01 January 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

Can't say just yet as I'm involved in the development. All I can say is that something like this is being made. I'm not too sure about the whole housing idea, though. Did people really like that in Skyrim? I just found it kind of pointless...

Well, I'm not really into housing but I think it's a really cool idea for role-playing.

View PostReason on Cooldown, on 01 January 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

I actually like the heart system.  At least for intro maps.  They provide a breadcrumb system that give you a reason to move about the map.  Draw you in to exploring all areas.  At higher levels it does seem to start feeling more grindy.  And you're always hoping to hit one of those DEs that spawn waves of enemies, as it's usually enough to pop off the heart in no time.

I don't think it good to have such kind of breadcrumb at the start. It feels super artificial. I mean look at skyrim. I doesn't have hearts. Still, if you leave the tutorial you first stare down in this beautiful snowed valley with the frozen lake and everything is screaming "heyja, come and explore!". Now that's a good and immersive way to lead the players into the world and into explorations and thus learning the game by themselves.

#8 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 05:28 PM

View PostMiragee, on 01 January 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

I don't think it good to have such kind of breadcrumb at the start. It feels super artificial. I mean look at skyrim. I doesn't have hearts. Still, if you leave the tutorial you first stare down in this beautiful snowed valley with the frozen lake and everything is screaming "heyja, come and explore!". Now that's a good and immersive way to lead the players into the world and into explorations and thus learning the game by themselves.

I've never played Skyrim, so I have no base to understand the start game.  However, you do make a valid point, but look at it from the point a view of a new player.  A less experienced gamer, or someone new to MMOs.   It can be confusing or intimidating, maybe even frustrating.  Even with GW2's heart system, when my friend started the game--his first MMO--he was calling out for me to log and and help.  He was so confused.  Now he has 3 80s, acts like an old pro, and love the game. :)

The Living Story provides some vehicle to get people out into the world.  The problem is that you can often avoid a lot of open world content if you just run straight to it.  LS is instances, so it takes you out of the open world.  And if you do ONLY LS, it will level faster than you can level.  Okay, there are other ways to achieve this other than the heart system, but I still think it's a good system to move you around the map, and provide a hint for what level you need to be so you don't get in too deep too fast.

Perhaps if ANet has implemented more meta events.  Or just had map-wide marking of Dynamic Events (like they do for Scarlett invasions), it would give people feedback on where to go (although, again, easy to get in too high level an area if no low level events are happening).  It would also end the map chatter of: "Any events?"  Which almost requires me to give a sarcastic response. lol  It's in my contract. :)

#9 Robsy128

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 05:54 PM

Yeah, I think dyanmic events are important, but these heart quests are kind of silly. Take the beginning areas for example - "help feed the cows and water the plants", says an NPC that is supposedly a farmer. Yet they're just standing outside their house, waiting for people to do the work for them. From a logical point of view and immersive point of view, that doesn't make sense. I'd love to see the NPCs actually going about their daily lives like they do in Skyrim. I do think original quests work a lot better than dynamic events. At least they make you go from point A to point B, which increases the likelihood or you coming across certain events. Plus, it gives you a reason to go from point A to B, rather than looking at a map and seeing another lazy NPC advertising themselves because they can't be bothered to do the work themselves.

#10 Fantasy Trope

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 07:02 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 01 January 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

Can't say just yet as I'm involved in the development. All I can say is that something like this is being made. I'm not too sure about the whole housing idea, though. Did people really like that in Skyrim? I just found it kind of pointless...

I enjoyed the housing, as I did in Fallout 3, Oblivion and (to a much lesser extent) Morrowind.  While I didn't spend a lot of time in my house, I did visit it rather frequently and viewed it as a core component of my adventuring experience, not the least because of the storage chests, bookcases (my favorite! yes really!), armor and weapon racks, and crafting stations.  I also appreciated a safe space that was clearly my own and that could be upgraded through significant investment.  (It's what I find pleasurable in all RPG experiences: growth.)  Some viewed it as a trophy, although I was more interested in developing a functional and aesthetically pleasing home base (for lack of a better term).  Steam workshop housing mods were some of my favorite.

It also adds to immersion when your character lives in a town or city with other NPCs.

For raw numbers, I'd estimate I spent maybe 10-20 hours in houses or doing housing related quests out of the 200+ I played Skyrim, and much of the gold I earned went into housing upgrades.

Just one perspective.  I realize this is probably off topic now, but I thought as a developer you'd like to know.

#11 Nabuko Darayon

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 07:11 PM

View PostMiragee, on 01 January 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Also Hearts...you can't be serious. They are bottom-barrel of uncreativeness for standard MMO-quests to be completed in a boring manner. DE's, as I said many times, would fit a game with an existing quest system very well.

I quite liked the idea of the hearts instead of Quests (go there, kill this) but I hate the rewards that Hearts give compared to real Quests.

View PostReason on Cooldown, on 01 January 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

I don't know much about Skyrim, but I am somewhat aware of the class system, and I'd love to see that in an MMO.  Build the class in the way you want it, let people divine their own classes.  Yes, there would be specific "good" builds, leaving the many variety of builds unused.  But I think that's okay, those build would be the player-defined cookie cutter classes of other MMOs, while other builds are for fun.  As long as the meta builds are well balanced I think it's fine.  But a game where everyone starts out as just a regular nobody then build their own class give it a fun realism.

Yeah that is great, you start as noone then decide I'd like to join Soldier's guild (GW2 reference) and you get to do some quests when you get there, then once you join you get to pick whether you'd like to train to become a Warrior or a Guardian. And once you've chosen you get to visit your Guild whenever you want. They'llt each you new skills, new weapon mastery etc... I really like that about Skyrim so far, you have a sense of belonging somewhere.

View PostRobsy128, on 01 January 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

Can't say just yet as I'm involved in the development. All I can say is that something like this is being made. I'm not too sure about the whole housing idea, though. Did people really like that in Skyrim? I just found it kind of pointless...

Housing in SKyrim is a lot better then what I've seen. If you get married your Wife can open a shop in your home and you'd have small income :D

View PostMiragee, on 01 January 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Well, I'm not really into housing but I think it's a really cool idea for role-playing.

I don't think it good to have such kind of breadcrumb at the start. It feels super artificial. I mean look at skyrim. I doesn't have hearts. Still, if you leave the tutorial you first stare down in this beautiful snowed valley with the frozen lake and everything is screaming "heyja, come and explore!". Now that's a good and immersive way to lead the players into the world and into explorations and thus learning the game by themselves.

The thing about SKyrim is it still has that Quest here, quest there system, although a lot less grindy them most. That quest system in Skyrim coresponds to DE's in GW2 (although fighting Dragons in Skyrim feels like a DE)

View PostRobsy128, on 01 January 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Yeah, I think dyanmic events are important, but these heart quests are kind of silly. Take the beginning areas for example - "help feed the cows and water the plants", says an NPC that is supposedly a farmer. Yet they're just standing outside their house, waiting for people to do the work for them. From a logical point of view and immersive point of view, that doesn't make sense. I'd love to see the NPCs actually going about their daily lives like they do in Skyrim. I do think original quests work a lot better than dynamic events. At least they make you go from point A to point B, which increases the likelihood or you coming across certain events. Plus, it gives you a reason to go from point A to B, rather than looking at a map and seeing another lazy NPC advertising themselves because they can't be bothered to do the work themselves.

^this but I don't see how that could be implemented in an MMO let alone GW2. I love the fact that, for example, after the Eye of the Magnus was in College of Winterhold if I traveled to Riften when passing the guards there they would interact with you commending the events happening in Winterhold. Same could be implemented in GW2 (where NPCs would talk about Scarlets enxt move etc..)

#12 Robsy128

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 07:48 PM

View PostFantasy Trope, on 01 January 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

I enjoyed the housing, as I did in Fallout 3, Oblivion and (to a much lesser extent) Morrowind.  While I didn't spend a lot of time in my house, I did visit it rather frequently and viewed it as a core component of my adventuring experience, not the least because of the storage chests, bookcases (my favorite! yes really!), armor and weapon racks, and crafting stations.  I also appreciated a safe space that was clearly my own and that could be upgraded through significant investment.  (It's what I find pleasurable in all RPG experiences: growth.)  Some viewed it as a trophy, although I was more interested in developing a functional and aesthetically pleasing home base (for lack of a better term).  Steam workshop housing mods were some of my favorite.

It also adds to immersion when your character lives in a town or city with other NPCs.

For raw numbers, I'd estimate I spent maybe 10-20 hours in houses or doing housing related quests out of the 200+ I played Skyrim, and much of the gold I earned went into housing upgrades.

Just one perspective.  I realize this is probably off topic now, but I thought as a developer you'd like to know.

Oh no, it's definitely interesting and should still be on topic considering it's about combining the best features of both games. It is fun to make your own place (as I know from Minecraft). I personally didn't realize people could spend so long in the Skyrim houses, though! Then again, I was the type of person who didn't recruit any followers either.

I also have to add that the customisation of Guild Wars 2 characters is a lot better than Skyrim. Skyrim has better facial sliders, but as for clothing and weapons, I definitely think Guild Wars 2 wins there. What would be awesome is if you could make every single armour set from Guild Wars 2 yourself, rather than finding it by random luck. Or perhaps when you do find a piece of armour from a set, that recipe unlocks so you can then make it yourself with different stats, if you so required. I can understand that the transmutation stones do this job in Guild Wars 2, but for a single-player game it should be possible. I always find RPGs are about making your own character your way.

#13 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 08:08 PM

View PostNabuko Darayon, on 01 January 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

Yeah that is great, you start as noone then decide I'd like to join Soldier's guild (GW2 reference) and you get to do some quests when you get there, then once you join you get to pick whether you'd like to train to become a Warrior or a Guardian. And once you've chosen you get to visit your Guild whenever you want. They'llt each you new skills, new weapon mastery etc... I really like that about Skyrim so far, you have a sense of belonging somewhere.

The one problem I realized with this kind of system--at least the way I envision it--is that it makes retraiting difficult.  Or silly.  If you have X number of points to assign to any tree, and you can refund an reallocate.  Today you're a hulking, blade wielding barbarian and tomorrow you're a powerful arcane mage.  Seems a bit silly and immersion breaking.  But to deny retraits altogether means decisions made very early on in character development would be permanent.

But--no need for me to necessarily fix flaws in my own system that will probably never be made. lol

#14 RandolfRa

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 03:56 PM

Skyrim with proper mods is so far out of the league of Guild Wars 2 that there would be no marriage at all. But if I could take something from Guild Wars 2 to Skyrim, it would be the jumping puzzles and smoother jumping. Perhaps also some armor sets and weapons, though most of them would feel rather out of place in Skyrim. Hell, they do so even in Guild Wars 2.

Edited by RandolfRa, 02 January 2014 - 04:07 PM.


#15 Juanele

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:25 PM

I enjoyed housing in Skyrim. The one thing I'd like is to have more creative choices on design of the house (actual structure, not just the things you can put in it).

#16 Datenshi92

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:52 PM

View PostNabuko Darayon, on 01 January 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Guild Wars 2:
- combat system
- Quaggans!
- no level grind
- Hearts and DE's!!
- Tyria feels much more alive (no repetitions of the same houses, areas, etc...)

So... is this just a "what if" kind of thread? Because we all know Skyrim is Skyrim and GW2 is GW2, they will never change what they are nor will they ever merge.

Combat System: Its a matter of taste. I personally prefer to be on first person for combat and third person for exploring and / or RPing. Skyrim vanilla combat is more of an hack and slash while GW2's is more like a DnD game with the exception that your chances of blocking and / or missing comes with certain buffs and your dodge timing.

Quaggans: ... Again its a relative thing. I personally can't stand the damn buggers.

No level grind: GW2 was fun leveling your first characters but after that it becomes an utter chore. I know that technically its an horizontal progression but the fact that you're limited in the things you can do to progress (and those options being either expensive or plain boring) doesn't really make it any better. What do you do to level?
- Map completion - Again, its an utter bore after you've done so 2 or 3 times with your previous characters.
- WvW -  Yea, its nice for the first levels but as you progress it becomes slower and slower.
- Crafting - Waaaay too expensive to do in the game's current state.

Hearts and DE's: *points to explanation above*

Tyria feels alive: Depends on how you see it.
The problem with it is that its too stretched out and some areas just feel downright empty and shallow - they lack certain aspects that make lower or higher areas so attractive, basically no one has reasons to be in them.

NPCs don't really react to the environment and / or events happening around them and I can think of a good example. I was running around Gendaran Fields when of a sudden a Scarlet event drops right next to the heart level 30, NPCs just stood there, talking about their daily lives and dead chickens when they had a freaking Aetherblade pirate invasion happening right outside their farms.
That doesn't feel normal.


I think what you want is probably Elder Scrolls Online - the perfect merge of GW2 with Skyrim.


View PostRobsy128, on 01 January 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

Can't say just yet as I'm involved in the development. All I can say is that something like this is being made. I'm not too sure about the whole housing idea, though. Did people really like that in Skyrim? I just found it kind of pointless...

Maybe this should be moved to Gamer's Lair as well?

Oh for the love of... if you can't talk about it then why even mention it? Besides you're the one who incited a conversation about it in the first place! I freaking hate teases... Next time don't even touch the subject or at least mention an entirely different game that you're aware of that fits into what the OP is looking for. :(

And yes, I think housing is a great thing to add to just about any game with RPG elements. If nothing else, its a goal for players to aim at - acquire, upgrade and build/decorate according to our taste.

Edited by Datenshi92, 02 January 2014 - 11:16 PM.


#17 Robsy128

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:53 PM

View PostDatenshi92, on 02 January 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:


Oh for the love of... if you can't talk about it then why even mention it? Besides you're the one who incited a conversation about it in the first place! I freaking hate teases... Next time don't even touch the subject or at least mention an entirely different game that you're aware of that fits into what the OP is looking for. :(

And yes, I think housing is a great thing to add to just about any game with RPG elements. If nothing else, its a goal for players to aim at - acquire, upgrade and build/decorate according to our taste.

Haha, sorry... I gotta make some people excited before we announce stuff, though :P
I know what GW2 and Skyrim definitely needs, though. Pirate ships. I want to start out with a little dhingy and then upgrade it like mad until I have the black pearl with a Commodore hat :D

Edited by Robsy128, 03 January 2014 - 06:53 PM.


#18 Miragee

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 08:36 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 03 January 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Haha, sorry... I gotta make some people excited before we announce stuff, though :P
I know what GW2 and Skyrim definitely needs, though. Pirate ships. I want to start out with a little dhingy and then upgrade it like mad until I have the black pearl with a Commodore hat :D

GW2 HAS pirate ships. They are everywhere. On the sea, on lakes, as houses, in caves.... IN THE AIR... And they suck because they are everywhere (not because there are some).
And hyping before announcing stuff is even worse than hyping 3-4 years before launch with a sheet of paper of "what you want to do" and a video talking about how awesome you are and how shitty the others are, if you know what I mean. ;)

#19 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:08 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 03 January 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Pirate ships.

I came up with an idea several months ago for a pirate ship DE.  Well, it doesn't have to be pirate.  You actually ride on a moving ship and have sea battles with other ships.  And there are several tasks you can undertake.  You can man the cannons (yes, I know, nightmares of Zhaitan), defend against boarding parties.  Or perhaps board other ships and take the fight to them.

Falling off the boat could turn out to be a bit awkward (but FUNNY).  Unless there were an uncontested WP on the ship.

#20 Robsy128

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:24 PM

View PostMiragee, on 03 January 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

GW2 HAS pirate ships. They are everywhere. On the sea, on lakes, as houses, in caves.... IN THE AIR... And they suck because they are everywhere (not because there are some).

Yeah but the problem is that you can't do anything with them. Plus, I don't think I've ever seen a pirate in-game. Not a proper one, anyway. I've seen those mobs in Gendarran fields who claim to be pirates, but they're just standing on the shore looking at the sky or something. Again, it doesn't feel very alive...

I like Reason on Cooldown's idea, though! It would be pretty interesting as a PvP game as well (who says PvP has to be in a boring old arena with a voice shouting 'FIGHT!'?).

#21 Miragee

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:58 PM

View PostReason on Cooldown, on 03 January 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

I came up with an idea several months ago for a pirate ship DE.  Well, it doesn't have to be pirate.  You actually ride on a moving ship and have sea battles with other ships.  And there are several tasks you can undertake.  You can man the cannons (yes, I know, nightmares of Zhaitan), defend against boarding parties.  Or perhaps board other ships and take the fight to them.

Falling off the boat could turn out to be a bit awkward (but FUNNY).  Unless there were an uncontested WP on the ship.

To be honest that sounds way more exiting in a open world pvp experience. ;) One of my hopes for ArcheAge to be good at it.

View PostRobsy128, on 03 January 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

Yeah but the problem is that you can't do anything with them. Plus, I don't think I've ever seen a pirate in-game. Not a proper one, anyway. I've seen those mobs in Gendarran fields who claim to be pirates, but they're just standing on the shore looking at the sky or something. Again, it doesn't feel very alive...

You are right. That's the breathing world of gw2 for you, sadly. Could have been much more. Anyways, there are some real pirate NPC's in the game, even in Lion's Arch with dialogue and stuff. But most of the pirate bases are "pirates are coooool, lets place some over here, doesn't matter if they just sit there doing nothing", you are right.

#22 El Duderino

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:10 PM

I have to say that I enjoyed housing in Skyrim as well. Also RandolfRa is correct. Having migrated from the console version of Skyrim to the PC version. The mods make the game infinitely better.

#23 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:36 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 03 January 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

Plus, I don't think I've ever seen a pirate in-game.

Of COURSE there are pirates.....

EX-Pirates.  But I get your meaning, commerce beats combat...........

Sorry, reflex. lol


View PostRobsy128, on 03 January 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

I like Reason on Cooldown's idea, though! It would be pretty interesting as a PvP game as well (who says PvP has to be in a boring old arena with a voice shouting 'FIGHT!'?).

Well.....just let ANet know I'm awaiting that phone call. lol

Not sure why ANet hasn't added any new PvP modes yet.  I know originally they thought their singular mode would make the best mode for the e-Sports front.  Does anybody know if that ever panned out?  They came out of the gate severely lacking in necessary tools.  And even with those they added, I get the feeling their PvP is not really e-Sports friendly.  But I've not done PvP since beta, so I really have no idea what the current state is.





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