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ArenaNet to "address [...] the dominance of Berserker/DPS"


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#1 MazingerZ

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:29 AM

Forum: https://forum-en.gui...rst#post3480529

Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.co..._the_berserker/

Jon Peters said:

We are trying to take steps to address some of the dominance of Berserker/DPS players. More info next week, I think.

Jon

Obvious questions becomes how to they balance this without invalidating every player who's built Ascended 'zerker sets?  They can't hit it with a nerf stick, that'll just piss people off.  It's not the same as nerfing a class.  Leveling is easy.  You're going to invalidate an entire year's worth of time-gated investment.  Even the top comment is a fully-ascended 'Zerker Warrior shaking in his boots.

There's a comment further down that speaks to how the current game mechanics invalidate any pros towards the other stats:

Quote

realistically, it can be done, but it would be a hell of a lot of work. the main problems with diversity is that: defense has no value due to dodge, healing has no value due to dodge and everyone having a personal heal combined with low threat damage outside of the massive threatening spikes (i'm full hp, or i'm dead), cc has no value due to defiant, every boss has anti-range measures that punish you for staying far away but none of them have anti-melee measures to punish stacking up on him, their damage is so bloody high that some classes can just reflect and have the boss kill itself in seconds which further devalues other classes.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#2 FoxBat

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:54 AM

I doubt we are going to see anything that makes zerker too glassy to pass dungeon content, barring maybe 50+ fractals with some significant revisions there. Gear choice in their view is supposed to be a "style choice", not something to stump min-maxers, so its still likely to be the "optimal" choice in most cases. Even within that framework though, they could make defense feel less worthless by reducing the focus on blocking/invulning big hits and sending more incremental damage at players. If you could have players appreciably pass harder content with less dodges in tanky gear (but longer time) then you can let players use gear to adjust difficulty so that it suits how they want to play. As it is you will die horribly if you can't dodge the big baddies' stomps whatever your gear so that doesn't work in a lot of places right now.

They could also mean fixing some of the stacking issues with condition damage, which could help some hybrid builds become a consideration. Another very interesting idea I saw from players was to change healing power into something like "boon" power, e.g. might's bonus would scale with your healing stat like bleed scales with condo damage, which would help make support builds feel more significant even if not ultimately optimal.

Edited by FoxBat, 12 January 2014 - 04:02 AM.


#3 Jentari

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 04:35 AM

Interesting.  As Foxbat said, I also doubt there will be major changes.  Doing that will alienate a lot of people.  About the only way I see that they can deal with this is to make other build types more appealing to use and be as good as berserkers.

Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully they will not make any kneejerk reaction and do anything to berserkers but instead they make the other builds better.

#4 Arkham Creed

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 04:37 AM

How to fix GW2’s combat system in ten (ish) simple (ish) steps.

Step 1; rework Defiant to have a chance to reflect damage to melee attackers, effectively bundling Defiant with retaliation.

Step 2; rework Defiant to no longer be a permanent buff, but rather a shield that can be removed, overpowered, timed out, and periodically reapplied throughout a fight.

Step 3; rework all heal-over-time and damage-over-time effects to conform to the pip system of the original Guild Wars.

***Step 3A; rework healing power and condition damage to simply increase the number of pips applied by regeneration or conditions, accelerating health loss/gain within a player independent scale.

***Step 3B; balance skills so that no single player can apply beyond a limited number of regeneration/degeneration pips on a single foe at one time.

***Step 3C; allow regeneration/degeneration pips applied by multiple players to stack rather than overwrite; thus making health regeneration and condition damage builds vastly more effective when working in groups, as opposed to the current system of getting in each other’s way.

Step 4; add a skill interrupt effect to all existing control effects. Allow this interrupt to apply to targets normally immune to control effects.

Step 5; refine the existing target prioritizing AI, and better communicate when a player is being targeted and what caused the shift in priority to players. I suggest a special ring under players who currently have “aggro.”

Step 6; rework ranged combat to involve lower direct damage, but include an “armor penetration” stat unique to ranged attacks.

***Step 6A; allow ranged attacks to still do a percentage of their total damage to blocking targets based on their armor penetration attribute. Balance ranged attacks to include variable armor penetration attributes across weapon sets and skills.

***Step 6B; grant armor penetrating attacks a chance to still apply conditions to blocking targets, based on the armor penetration of the skill used.

Step 7; rework toughness to relate to a new “mitigation” attribute, with higher toughness raising the mitigation percentage. Mitigation is a percent based chance to convert any incoming direct damage attack into a glancing blow, reducing it to half damage.

***Step 7A; enable mitigation to affect all direct damage from any source, including the most powerful hits from bosses.

Step 8; establish a hard cap on player health, allowing no players the possibility of exceeding this limit regardless of build, gear, or buffs.

Step 9; establish a hard cap on all direct damage from all sources, including the most powerful boss attacks. Never allow the total damage done from any attack, attack chain, or area of effect to exceed this limit.

***Step 9A; match the above damage limitation to the previously decided player health cap. Thus insuring that a player with sufficient toughness can potentially survive any single attack, attack chain, or area of effect.

Step 10; to avoid abuse of the above, establish a hard limit to player toughness that cannot be surpassed regardless of build, gear, or buffs. Balance this limit as needed to maintain the inherent threat of combat in spite of the above mitigation attribute.

Edited by Arkham Creed, 12 January 2014 - 04:42 AM.


#5 Phineas Poe

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 04:38 AM

Unless they plan on going and re-balancing the entire game, I expect that they're not going to touch any currently-existing content. Instead, I think they're just going to push in the direction they have been going, like Tequatl, that forces players out of Berserker gear.

I also expect this is somewhat related with the vigor nerf they were hinting at last month. Both engineer and thief have already been hit, and I expect more classes to be stripped of their permanent vigor traits.

#6 Gyre

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 05:14 AM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 12 January 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

I also expect this is somewhat related with the vigor nerf they were hinting at last month. Both engineer and thief have already been hit, and I expect more classes to be stripped of their permanent vigor traits.

This is a good observation but what do they expect as an alternative?  Spend more time at range?  Scarf down bowls of orrian truffle and meat stew?  Dodging is a fundamental mechanic and by extension so is maintaining endurance if the bosses can just cycle the big hits.

#7 Azure Skye

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 06:42 AM

at least they're doing something about it. :)

#8 Atticus

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 06:48 AM

I wouldn't put it past ArenaNet to implement a backend system that increases certain boss skills depending on overall attack power or something from a group so you end up with bosses just skill spamming.

I have a feeling this is going to end up a trainwreck, why? Because ArenaNet doesn't really know how to play their own game (no they really don't, watch a developer stream where they try to play) and they refuse to really listen to those who do. So what we'll end up with is either a dumb system like this that will penalize players for playing glass cannon specs or the addition of random mechanics that force interludes to fights to slow them down.

View PostAzure Skye, on 12 January 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

at least they're doing something about it. :)

Whatever they do, do it won't be good. Without completely restructuring most of this games fights and mechanics they can't really address the problem. The vast majority of PvE encounters are very zerg prone and at the moment their only way of dealing with that is to artificially slow down fights which isn't really dealing with the problem at all.

Edited by Atticus, 12 January 2014 - 06:53 AM.


#9 SZSSZS

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:22 AM

I'm not sure as to the direction Anet will take but I'll add this quote from the recent Dolyak Express:

PvE: Are there any plans to make condition builds more viable in PvE?
”Yes you should see some creatures targeted around weakness to condition in some of the early builds next year.” ~Isaiah Cartwright


This may imply certain mobs will take minimal direct damage, but will melt to a particular condition. Then again they may not impair direct damage at all, and try to allow either to be viable.

It's one of the reasons why I personally dislike BiS gear to be so costly; the lack of flexibility. It reminds me of those MMO's where retrait scrolls cost 1.2 million gold. You either build your character correctly the first time through, or you don't.

Though in the end, I do have an old rusty set of Exotic Rampager's Armor that'll have to do.

Edited by SZSSZS, 12 January 2014 - 07:25 AM.


#10 Illein

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:59 AM

Yeah, curious how they'll do it. Though if they really announce those explicit changes on Tuesday, I sure as hell would have appreciated to know that BEFORE I built my whole suit of ascended Saphir's and Zojja's armor... that was barely a month ago, after all.

Edited by Illein, 12 January 2014 - 08:00 AM.


#11 Lordkrall

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:35 AM

I believe there are talks about having new mobs with specifically resistances, including towards direct damage and such. And that would indeed make Zerker stats quite a bit less useful while at the same time also increasing the usefulness of condition-based builds.

#12 nerfandderf

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:36 AM

hard conundrum. They cant invalidate peoples time via ascended gear. But zerk has been it the go to for pve forever. All the advice on the forums about what to put effort into was on zerk and now they are thinking about hitting that with a nerf bat.

Well anet never does anything half way so they will hit it hard if they do. My advice try and buff others up cause if you hit em where it hurts and invalidate what they spent the past year grinding for - well lets say it may look just like when they implemented ascend.

I do think it did need to be addressed a long time ago just for more viability and to focus more on diversity but now this far in I as why?

#13 Rashaki

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:56 AM

This is my biggest issue with the game right now, even more than the fact that ascended gear is just a huge grind. They need to make it so that there is too much damage in dungeons for an entire team to be made of glass cannons. You should either need to have everyone with balanced stats/builds, or bring tanky/support/healing characters to pick up the slack.

#14 Cube

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:18 AM

I just don't get it, if they want a game without healers than they have exactly what they want. What's left if you remove the trinity? Nothing besides DPS. Everyone has to be DPS in some shape or form with a few different utility skills than others.

I guess I just don't see a problem with it because all it will do is just make dungeons with PuG's slower or that everyone has boosted DPS. But a guardian is still gonna be needed, so is whatever else ends up being the highest DPS. How much can one dumb down this game.

#15 ZCKS

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 10:11 AM

View PostArkham Creed, on 12 January 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

How to fix GW2’s combat system in ten (ish) simple (ish) steps.

Step 1; rework Defiant to have a chance to reflect damage to melee attackers, effectively bundling Defiant with retaliation.

Step 2; rework Defiant to no longer be a permanent buff, but rather a shield that can be removed, overpowered, timed out, and periodically reapplied throughout a fight.

Step 3; rework all heal-over-time and damage-over-time effects to conform to the pip system of the original Guild Wars.

***Step 3A; rework healing power and condition damage to simply increase the number of pips applied by regeneration or conditions, accelerating health loss/gain within a player independent scale.

***Step 3B; balance skills so that no single player can apply beyond a limited number of regeneration/degeneration pips on a single foe at one time.

***Step 3C; allow regeneration/degeneration pips applied by multiple players to stack rather than overwrite; thus making health regeneration and condition damage builds vastly more effective when working in groups, as opposed to the current system of getting in each other’s way.

Step 4; add a skill interrupt effect to all existing control effects. Allow this interrupt to apply to targets normally immune to control effects.

Step 5; refine the existing target prioritizing AI, and better communicate when a player is being targeted and what caused the shift in priority to players. I suggest a special ring under players who currently have “aggro.”

Step 6; rework ranged combat to involve lower direct damage, but include an “armor penetration” stat unique to ranged attacks.

***Step 6A; allow ranged attacks to still do a percentage of their total damage to blocking targets based on their armor penetration attribute. Balance ranged attacks to include variable armor penetration attributes across weapon sets and skills.

***Step 6B; grant armor penetrating attacks a chance to still apply conditions to blocking targets, based on the armor penetration of the skill used.

Step 7; rework toughness to relate to a new “mitigation” attribute, with higher toughness raising the mitigation percentage. Mitigation is a percent based chance to convert any incoming direct damage attack into a glancing blow, reducing it to half damage.

***Step 7A; enable mitigation to affect all direct damage from any source, including the most powerful hits from bosses.

Step 8; establish a hard cap on player health, allowing no players the possibility of exceeding this limit regardless of build, gear, or buffs.

Step 9; establish a hard cap on all direct damage from all sources, including the most powerful boss attacks. Never allow the total damage done from any attack, attack chain, or area of effect to exceed this limit.

***Step 9A; match the above damage limitation to the previously decided player health cap. Thus insuring that a player with sufficient toughness can potentially survive any single attack, attack chain, or area of effect.

Step 10; to avoid abuse of the above, establish a hard limit to player toughness that cannot be surpassed regardless of build, gear, or buffs. Balance this limit as needed to maintain the inherent threat of combat in spite of the above mitigation attribute.

1: IDk about this. It would need to be done very carefully, to high a proc chance or to high a reflection amount & people who attack rapidly or with large attacks will kill themselves very easily.

2: I've been saying something similar for quite some time. I have also suggested for quite a while that they make more of the mobs able to dodge & avoid attacks.

3, A,B,C: Agree that they should rework how conditions & some boons scale. I doubt they it would need all the extra steps if done properly though.

4: Dazes & stuns already do this if used on a target that is casting. That being said ya it could be expanded somewhat.

5: That could help allot, though it could make many dungeons to easy unless steps are taken to make them more chalenging in other ways.

6, A,B: If conditions were reworked properly there would be no need for this as they could just have more ranged attacks apply conditions in addition to their direct damage.

7,A: Weakness more or less already does this. The problem being champ & above mobs reduce weakness duration greatly & not everyone brings weakness.
The problem could be solved by reworking conditions & making some more avialable.

8: This would reduce diversity of builds allot, you also have to remember that for every point they spend in vitality they lose a point that could be spent on something else.
My guess is most people would hate this change.

9,A: Instead why not reduce how much damage many bosses/players do with their attacks but make them attack faster or multiple times. This would result in the same effect, without artificial caps.

10: Same problem here as #8. It would piss allot of people off & greatly reduce diversity of builds.

#16 ZCKS

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 10:49 AM

Ideally I think they can solve allot of the problems in game by reworking how conditions & boons scale.

1: Rework some conditions. Confusion, chill, immobilize, cripple & torment are all more or less fine (or could use very minor tweaks & some could be given to more classes). Burning, bleeding, poison, weakness & vulnerability however all need some major fixes.

Bleeds could be rather easily fixed. I say this because every ability that applies a bleed/s either applies very long duration bleeds & or multiple bleed stacks. If they simply reduce stacks applied & or duration of said stacks then increased scaling they would essentially solve the problem of caping bleeds being to easy.

Vulnerability is also extremely easy to cap at the moment. The solution I suggest would be 3 fold.
1: Reduce the duration of some abilities that apply vulnerability or increase the cool downs of said abilities. (Damage of said abilities would need to be adjusted to compensate)
2: Change defiant so it no longer effects the duration of vulnerability.
&
3: Increase the damage increase of vulnerability in PVE.
(this would easentially make vulnerability harder for 1-2 people to cap & make it more of an ability that you would want to coordinate).

Poison, could really use some changes. What if instead of stacking in duration they changed it so it would stack in intensity. This could easily be done by adjusting duration of abilities that apply it then adjusting the scaling. (in the end it could do less damage then bleeds per stack but also reduce healing received/done by the target by X% per stack)

Burning Short of making it more akin to how bleeds currently are IDK how it could be fixed. The problem is having something to differentiate between it and bleeds. Maybe it could cause some type of secondary effect similar to weakness or cause endurance to recover slower.

Weakness The main problem with this ability currently is it's to strong versus players but not strong enough vs champions due to defiant.


There are also some problems with the way dungeons are designed.

The 2 main problems with dungeons are
1: Most mobs use extremely hard hitting attacks. This leads to most people being at/near full health or dead.
2: Pretty much every mob in game is a meat shield with tons of health but no avoidance.

Problem #1 can be solved rather simply by doing the following
1: Reduce how hard many of the mobs in game hit for then look at said mob & do one of the following
Either A: increase the speed at which said mob attacks,
or
B: give the mob access to more conditions.

As for the whole mobs basically being stupid meat shields. That problem can be solved by giving mobs access to more ways to avoid damage. You know things like dodging, blocks, parries, weakness, protection, AEGIS etc.... If done properly they could then greatly reduce the health of many mobs & the fights would end up allot more exciting.

#17 Satenia

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 11:57 AM

Prior to the ascended armor grind, I would have cheered over such news. But now I'm simply worried about months of work spent on ascended-gear being rendered obsolete in case berserker/dps really does get a major hit. Should such a thing happen, I hope they have at least the decency to offer an armor-stats change (like when MF was removed from gear)...

But as others said before, I don't see how it can happen without major changes to the game as a whole, so I guess I'll hold my breath till the news are actually out.

#18 Veji

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 12:34 PM

Love it!  Lets see what they come up with and look forward to some awesome build diversity.  Kudos to Anet!

EDIT:  If you're in full zerker ascended, i doubt they'll make the change and not address all your time and work on the gear.  I'd imagine that if drastic changes were done, they'd give you the choice of refunded mats or an armor token to swap to a piece with stats that will benefit you.  So I wouldn't stress over it.

Edited by Veji, 12 January 2014 - 12:36 PM.


#19 Brandon the Don

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 12:40 PM

Already said this in another thread, but I don't see major changes happening any time soon, unless they completely rework the combat system...

And I will also say this again - rather than going against it, make other stuff more viable within the current implemention... Give classes more skills/traits to build around within this "zerker meta", instead of trying to do something that is neigh impossible and will likely lead to a lot of rage...

#20 Phineas Poe

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 04:49 PM

View PostGyre, on 12 January 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

This is a good observation but what do they expect as an alternative?  Spend more time at range?  Scarf down bowls of orrian truffle and meat stew?  Dodging is a fundamental mechanic and by extension so is maintaining endurance if the bosses can just cycle the big hits.

Well, that's why I mentioned Tequatl. Because Teq doesn't just cycle big hits. Poison fields drop Berserker-clad players in seconds, whether you're on a turret or in the zerg. And if you're on defense, the amount of champs and veterans that spawn even with set 5-man teams makes Berserker really not a great idea. Only the mid (hillside) defense can really get by wearing DPS armor. But when you're on north or south turret defense, I can't imagine a group of Berserker players taking down a Champion Grub without wiping.

If they are planning to create more content like Tequatl that trivializes Berserker gear (he can't be crit) and makes it unsafe to wear, they won't be affecting the dungeon meta but at least they'll give players reason to wear other armor sets outside of WvW.

I think the primary complaint about nerfing players' investments is really not going to be an issue. Ascended gear is primarily designed for FOTM, and in FOTM Berserker is best because mobs kill you in one hit regardless of what you wear. If they want to adjust it to where stacking toughness makes you much more survivable, great. But I don't think they're going to actually change the way FOTM works or the stat allocation of Berserker.

Edited by Phineas Poe, 12 January 2014 - 04:52 PM.


#21 Atticus

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 05:09 PM

View PostCube, on 12 January 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

I just don't get it, if they want a game without healers than they have exactly what they want. What's left if you remove the trinity? Nothing besides DPS. Everyone has to be DPS in some shape or form with a few different utility skills than others.

I guess I just don't see a problem with it because all it will do is just make dungeons with PuG's slower or that everyone has boosted DPS. But a guardian is still gonna be needed, so is whatever else ends up being the highest DPS. How much can one dumb down this game.

I kind of agree, being a glass cannon was one of the few things that made this game entertaining. Having to read telegraphs and avoid attacks instead of just standing in a place and soaking them because you have "stats" like so many other MMO's. Now they're going to try to make tanky specs for players who aren't able to do this more viable? Pretty sure that's just dumbing down the game to cater to folks that need that extra insurance of being able to take more than a few hits. And while that might be appealing to some it's going to turn a whole lot of others off. No matter what they do there will always be a popular meta build and there will always be players trying to speed clear content. So either restricting how fast they can do that or trivializing their efforts by making far more easily survivable builds viable is just going to end up frustrating many. They'll end up trading players who want to challenge themselves for others who want to easily roll through all content.

Dunno, seems like you said, you took away tanks, healers and left everyone as DPS... and got upset people were becoming too good at what you wanted them to do.

The only way I can see this working is if they hugely increase the effectiveness of a ton of support builds that buff others. So players who aren't berserker specced have something really marketable to bring to a run. But if they make just straight up heavy bunker specs desirable it's going to be a huge step back for this game.

Edited by Atticus, 12 January 2014 - 05:24 PM.


#22 NerfHerder

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 06:08 PM

A change to mobs sounds like the most likely scenario. The odds of them drastically changing mechanics is slim to nil. Based on their last "massive" skill balance, that never really shifted the meta, they really don't like to shake things up.

Like others have said before, giving a good portion of mobs crit and direct damage resistance, would compliment condition damage builds. Smaller packets of DoT and less big hits would encourage defensive support. Anti melee would force more teams to carry ranged, changing the dynamic even further. Changes to boons/stripping, CC, and other mechanics, could shake thing up enough to have at least one player specialize in something other than just zerker. Considering they will be revamping dungeons and zones as they go along, this doesn't even seem far fetched to implement.

The trick is in the balancing. I dont think many players really care that zerker is optimal, or stays that way. The problem is when your essentially punishing your team by bringing anything else. Build diversity should be encouraged, but not necessary.

#23 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 06:58 PM

The challenge ahead of them is NOT nerfing zerker, but making SOME content easier if you have other builds.  Make some bossess/mobs easier with support builds or control builds.  The trick is not to DRIVE people from zerker, but raise the number of other builds so there's a more homogenous community.

For example, give some bosses/mobs very high armor, so direct damage is slower than condition damage (cond builds will needs some fixes of course).  Strips some (SOME) bosses for defiant, then add AOE fields that either damage/stip buffs from a boss, or gives them buffs.  Then control builds will be able to keep the boss in or out of such fields.  Making killing it faster, or slowing its damage.  Give a boss access to near constant weakness/vulnerability so that builds heavy in condition removal are desirable.  Have a boss give a non-removable DOT that is offset by regen (without healing power).  Give a boss fewer mega hits, but spread a non-removable debuff that reduces endurance, so you can't use dodge AS MUCH to avoid damage and you need beefier builds to absorb some of those hits, and save the dodge for the fewer mega hits.  Etc......

Mixing several of these ideas into a single dungeon path, means that "Path 1 of X" doesn't become the DPS path, "Path 2 of X" is the cond path, etc.....

You need to ENCOURAGE people to try other builds (for reasons other than preference, ignorance, or badness), and NOT try to drive people from DPS.  That CAN'T do something affects DPS build across ALL content.  If they do, they will fulfill everyone's worst fears.

Can they do it?  I don't know.

View PostPhineas Poe, on 12 January 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

Unless they plan on going and re-balancing the entire game, I expect that they're not going to touch any currently-existing content. Instead, I think they're just going to push in the direction they have been going, like Tequatl, that forces players out of Berserker gear.

Tequatl forces players out of Zerker?  I thought Teq just forced people out of Sparkfly. lol

View PostAtticus, on 12 January 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

Dunno, seems like you said, you took away tanks, healers and left everyone as DPS... and got upset people were becoming too good at what you wanted them to do.

This is not correct.  Removing tanks and healers doesn't mean there is only DPS.  It means they have a different trinity (DPS, support, control), and that neither is REQUIRED to do content.  The problem is they utterly failed to make support or control builds nearly as optimal to zerker.  I don't think they expected everyone to gravitate to DPS-only.  But there are a LOT of behaviors in this game they did not expect people to gravitate toward (or away from).


I wonder if they would ever make Ascended stats swapable like on Legendaries?  On the one hand it prevents rage if other stats are needed/required.  On the other, it angers those who made multiple Ascended sets.  Maybe make Xmute recipes that require some T7's and the insignia/inscription of the destination stats.

#24 Illein

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:52 PM

View PostReason on Cooldown, on 12 January 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Tequatl forces players out of Zerker?  I thought Teq just forced people out of Sparkfly. lol



He was most likely referring to the fact that you can't crit Tequatl, so precision and increased critical damage becomes futile.Therefore people resorted to wearing their PVT/Soldier gear for that particular encounter.

Edited by Illein, 12 January 2014 - 08:52 PM.


#25 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:00 PM

View PostIllein, on 12 January 2014 - 08:52 PM, said:

He was most likely referring to the fact that you can't crit Tequatl, so precision and increased critical damage becomes futile.Therefore people resorted to wearing their PVT/Soldier gear for that particular encounter.

I believe I heard that at the time as well.  I was just taking a shot at the encounter itself driving people away from even doing Teq anymore.  They really need to scale down the engagement, or extend the timer, so at the very least getting to 75% isn't too challenging for even disorganized groups.

But that's another way to shift the meta.  Add more dungeon bosses that count as "structures" like Teq, so crit is useless.  But power builds are not.

#26 Featherman

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:07 PM

ANet needs to move the game away from gear and more towards situational build and skill usage. Otherwise any changes in attempt to fix the meta will result the preference for stats moving from one set to another. That is to say, if it's not zerkers it'll be something else. "LFM Teq must have Soldiers"

I'm not sure if ANet is up to the amount of work it would require them to actually fix the meta and not just shift it.

Edited by Featherman, 12 January 2014 - 09:08 PM.


#27 Dasviidonja

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:20 PM

Nerf zerkers, nerf zerkers yeah I'm all for that i don't play a zerker. :_)

View PostAtticus, on 12 January 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

I kind of agree, being a glass cannon was one of the few things that made this game entertaining. Having to read telegraphs and avoid attacks instead of just standing in a place and soaking them because you have "stats" like so many other MMO's. Now they're going to try to make tanky specs for players who aren't able to do this more viable? Pretty sure that's just dumbing down the game to cater to folks that need that extra insurance of being able to take more than a few hits. And while that might be appealing to some it's going to turn a whole lot of others off. No matter what they do there will always be a popular meta build and there will always be players trying to speed clear content. So either restricting how fast they can do that or trivializing their efforts by making far more easily survivable builds viable is just going to end up frustrating many. They'll end up trading players who want to challenge themselves for others who want to easily roll through all content.

Dunno, seems like you said, you took away tanks, healers and left everyone as DPS... and got upset people were becoming too good at what you wanted them to do.

The only way I can see this working is if they hugely increase the effectiveness of a ton of support builds that buff others. So players who aren't berserker specced have something really marketable to bring to a run. But if they make just straight up heavy bunker specs desirable it's going to be a huge step back for this game.

Nah that's just YOU're opinion. Only a handful will be pissed and it's normal to piss off a FEW people in an MMO...Everquest did it for years with MONKs....they were getting nerfed at every turn but people still played them and people still whined and cried like you. lol

#28 Illein

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:26 PM

Then again, the only people playing zerker right now are those who pretty much "care" in regards to how they can beat X or how they perform doing Y.

Not sure if making it MORE casual will be this game's saviour but hey - I could be all sorts of wrong about that. *shrugs*

#29 Atticus

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:32 PM

View PostDasviidonja, on 12 January 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Nerf zerkers, nerf zerkers yeah I'm all for that i don't play a zerker. :_)



Nah that's just YOU're opinion. Only a handful will be pissed and it's normal to piss off a FEW people in an MMO...Everquest did it for years with MONKs....they were getting nerfed at every turn but people still played them and people still whined and cried like you. lol

Just because you CAPITALIZE certain words doesn't MAKE THEM anymore right.

And I don't think I'm alone in this either, but perhaps you do have a point and my perspective is limited by the type of content I play through anymore (FOTM or an occasional Arah run if everyone has a bit of experience under their belts). Regardless the point I was just trying to make is that ArenaNet needs to make sure that they buff other specs usefulness rather than nerfing berserkers, If they do the exact opposite they're just going to piss a ton of players off instead of encouraging people to broaden their horizons and try out more support oriented builds that synergize with a party.

Edited by Atticus, 12 January 2014 - 09:40 PM.


#30 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 10:10 PM

View PostAtticus, on 12 January 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:

ArenaNet needs to make sure that they buff other specs usefulness rather than nerfing berserkers

Exactly.  You can't force human behavior. You have to make alternatives equally desirable.  Worse case scenario (but a very likely one) is they nerf zerker, and nothing changes, because zerker is still the fastest way to complete content, only now it takes a lot longer.




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