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Guild Wars 2 and Downloadable Content? | PCGamer


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#181 Ravious

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:27 PM

Hopefully they will consider guest passes ala DDO if they do sell single-pack dungeons.

In other thoughts, I am still a little bit in disbelief that ArenaNet are still unsure as to what they would want to sell in the store, etc. Like many have said T-Stones were made to sell in the store. It isn't like selling XP Scrolls that already exist as rare drops.  I'm sure they have a list that says "will never sell," "possibly," "likely," etc., and it would be nice if they were a little more upfront with that.

What are the sacred cows, ArenaNet?

#182 Intrepid

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:27 PM

Mordakai said:

Inde:   I can't believe you are defending this crap article!

As I said in the comments section there, it's a Troll Post, meant to flame and provoke responses and hits with no substantial info or confirmation.

If someone posted a thread here with the title:  "GW2 will sell you more Dungeons!", and all they had was a "we're open to it" quote, the thread title would be changed.

Now, I am not necessarily against buyable DLC, but it depends on how it is implemented:  How many Dungeons?  At what price?  Can they be soloable?  (an important consideration, because not everyone will be buying them).

But I am against bad writing, and misleading articles in particular.  And then to throw in random accusations that GW2 could have XPBoosts and speed potions?

Give me a break!

I guess I don't understand. I mean, we have Bonus Mission Packs, we know there will be micro's, we know they are "exploring" other items to be included in the cash shop.  Are we arguing over technicalities now? Does anyone believe that they won't charge for some dungeons, that are, in their own words a reasonable business decision?  That if the players want it they won't charge for potions and xp boosts?

I guess I don't understand the big uproar from either side.  Micro's are in. They spent 3 paragraphs justifying their business decision on why they would include content as a micro. What exactly is misleading about this article?  That the title stated it was confirmed? Who doesn't believe it's not going to be in the shop at this point?

Call me confused as to what we're even arguing about.

#183 Rever

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:28 PM

Would be nice if PC Gamer actually allowed ANet to view their articles before they posted them. I'm sure the developers are not happy about PC Gamer twisting quotes and misrepresenting the spirit of the interview. PC Gamer seems to be the "liberal mainstream media" of the  gaming world. They don't have a story so they create a controversy. I think I'm going to toss my renewal card in the garbage where it belongs.

#184 TedTheShred

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:28 PM

Alright, there's a solution here that can appease everyone:

ANet goes ahead with their trickle of DLC Dungeons. Let's assume 3 dungeons for $5. This means they get to release a steady stream of content that people pay for, further funding more content.

At the end of 18-24 months, a "Dungeon Pack" is released both digitally and physically. This "Dungeon Pack" contains all of the DLC dungeons released in the last 18-24 months, and goes for what? $30?

People who buy the DLC as it arrives get a head start on the content. People who prefer the longer gestation of expansion packs with more content for more money, get to wait for the big pack to arrive.

Everyone happy?

Oh wait. This is the Internet. Nobody's happy.

#185 Evil Geek

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:29 PM

TedTheShred said:

That splitting already exists in GW.

It's called Factions, Nightfall, and GW:EN.

Beyond simple content and item exclusion, there's feature locking. Example: If you only own Factions for some reason, you only get 1 hero.

I was talking about adding DLC to exisiting areas, creation of a new playfield is a larger chunk, like a mini expansion, more people will be likely to buy that than a small addition within a current playfield. Expansions/chapters are a different story completely, adding something in to the game you've bought already is not the best move, accusations of releasing unfinished content will fly and as said before, if everyone has access to an area but not all its content it creates the have/have nots. Buying an expansion/playfield/chapter with new areas is a different story.

#186 Daedalus

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:29 PM

It is really sad knowing this. I really don't want this and the best way to release new content is through Free Updates (like Dhuum in GW1) or through the B2P strategy - Expansions. I've already read the article but I really need an official confirmation and explanation on the blog or something. Just confirming if this is a go or an experimental idea (that I hope doesn't see the light).

#187 Tr0n

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:29 PM

Doc Zenith said:

...we are able to play if half of the people are missing the content because they dont  wanna or cant buy it..not sure if i wanna buy it.
That's my main problem I have with this.

"Hey, let's play this cool new dungeon!"
"Sorry dude, I don't have the money to buy it."
":("

#188 Brise Bon Bons

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:29 PM

My response to this thread is the same as the giant T-Stone debacle - what the hell did people expect the DLC was going to be? "Clearly something I would never want! The cash shop is for those other people."

Dungeons are in most ways the perfect DLC vehicle. They represent actual man hours and work on the part of the development team, rather than just paying 10-25 bucks for an automated database edit (such as name change, or re-customization), or 25 bucks for some intern to spend 3 hours re-skinning a pre-existing model a'la WoW's sparkle pony(TRH). When you buy a dungeon for 10 dollars you're directly supporting (or choosing not to) a specific, large block of work by developers. If it's a service you don't want - if you don't like dungeons, if you think it's a retread / reskin, if it seems too short - you don't buy it. Your purchase has a direct connection to paying ANet developer's salaries, which is exactly how it should be. They're motivated to make good content that people actually want to buy, and we can punish them for making bad content by not buying it.

In addition, unlike things like name changes and T-stones that have little true value (no investment on the development end in terms of man hours), ANet must make dungeons cool enough to make back their investment. With a name change, you could basically make a huge profit just off the handful of people who spend their entire budget on their gaming hobby. With dungeons, you need to convince a large section of your player base that they want to buy this thing - there's a huge motivation to do good work, which is exactly what DLC should be about.

The obvious downside is that yes, it will split the community a bit, as some people will have certain dungeons while others won't. That's a real problem, but the same thing happens with expansions, only on a larger scale. The only difference is that everyone is expected to buy an expansion without question (even though that's an even larger investment), but a DLC is still seen as taboo, so it's acceptable if someone doesn't want to buy it.

Lastly, despite what the article says I'm quite certain ANet has implied they won't be selling things like XP boosts in the cash shop. Josh let himself speculate a bit much, methinks.

Edited by Brise Bon Bons, 21 October 2010 - 05:33 PM.


#189 Regina Buenaobra

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:29 PM

I wanted to clear up some misunderstandings coming from the article. We talked to Eric, and he said the following:

Quote

Hey there, after reading the PC Gamer article I wanted to make sure that we clarified a few things. First, we haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post release. My answer to the dungeons question was meant to say “we’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in.” If after release you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful.  Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say) that we’ll release details on it when they are available and that our core philosophy--of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store--still stands.

In short: We have not made a decision on whether to sell dungeon content as DLC, contrary to what the article states. The author of the article jumped to this (incorrect) conclusion based upon his interpretation of Eric's statements.

Like Eric said in the article and in his statement above, we will look at what the demand is from the players.

#190 Mordakai

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:29 PM

Again, I have no problem with DLC.  If it's not worth the money, don't buy it.  You still have a huge MMO for $60.

I do have a serious problem with this article.  I want facts, not conjecture.

EDIT:  

Regina Buenaobra said:

In short: We have not made a decision on whether to sell dungeon content as DLC, contrary to what the article states. The author of the article jumped to this (incorrect) conclusion based upon his interpretation of Eric's statements.


I love being right....  :D

Thank you Regina.  Maybe people can calm down now... after we deal with this Josh Augustine fellow...

Edited by Mordakai, 21 October 2010 - 05:32 PM.


#191 trollberry

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:32 PM

Regina Buenaobra said:

I wanted to clear up some misunderstandings coming from the article. We talked to Eric, and he said the following:



In short: We have not made a decision on whether to sell dungeon content as DLC, contrary to what the article states. The author of the article jumped to this (incorrect) conclusion based upon his interpretation of Eric's statements.

Like Eric said in the article and in his statement above, we will look at what the demand is from the players.

Thank you for clearing up the context Regina.

#192 Intrepid

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:32 PM

Thank you Regina!!

#193 Oweio

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:33 PM

first the xp boost was out of the question, and now u r thinking about it oO

#194 Eragon Zarroc

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:33 PM

idk, the game will just start getting convoluted if you keep adding on and adding on to it.  eventually you will end up with like 30 extra dungeons that you can only get by paying for them and the cost of all 30 will end up costing more the game itself cost.

I would prefer completely new content and story advancement in the form of new campaigns/expansions than just little additional dungeons that may keep you distracted for like a week -_-

new expansions/campaigns will have dungeons that come with em :p

Edited by Eragon Zarroc, 21 October 2010 - 05:36 PM.


#195 Slash Beast

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:33 PM

Inde said:

I guess I don't understand. I mean, we have Bonus Mission Packs, we know there will be micro's, we know they are "exploring" other items to be included in the cash shop.  Are we arguing over technicalities now? Does anyone believe that they won't charge for some dungeons, that are, in their own words a reasonable business decision?  That if the players want it they won't charge for potions and xp boosts?

I guess I don't understand the big uproar from either side.  Micro's are in. They spent 3 paragraphs justifying their business decision on why they would include content as a micro. What exactly is misleading about this article?  That the title stated it was confirmed? Who doesn't believe it's not going to be in the shop at this point?

Call me confused as to what we're even arguing about.

Excluding content on release is okay?

I pay the 60$, I expect to have the full game. Otherwise they need to come down on their initial box price.

#196 Tzu

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:33 PM

yeah, it wont be $5 for a dungeon, guys. XD
costumes are $5. makeovers are $9 (possibly what we could expect t-stones to be at?).
BMP was at $10, so a dungeon DLC would be around that, probably closer to $15 or more depending on size.

EDIT: ninja'd by Regina. well, its good to have that clarified at least. :)

Edited by Tzu, 21 October 2010 - 05:36 PM.


#197 Auxilium

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:34 PM

Dungeons for an fee? Sure? Why not? Remember the Bonus Mission's pack? Was there such fuss about it like there is now? Did it deliver over-powered items? Did actually someone complain about those mission's? Three times NO! Come on guys! Grow up! Arenanet has already (a lot) experience in making content related with this, so they know what they are doing; and what they surely should NOT do.

#198 TedTheShred

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:34 PM

Brise Bon Bons said:

My response to this thread is the same as the giant T-Stone debacle - what the hell did people expect the DLC was going to be? "Clearly something I would never want! The cash shop is for those other people."

Dungeons are in most ways the perfect DLC vehicle. They represent actual man hours and work on the part of the development team, rather than just paying 10-25 bucks for an automated database edit (such as name change, or re-customization), or 25 bucks for some intern to spend 3 hours re-skinning a pre-existing model a'la WoW's sparkle pony(TRH). When you buy a dungeon for 10 dollars you're directly supporting (or choosing not to) a specific, large block of work by developers. If it's a service you don't want - if you don't like dungeons, if you think it's a retread / reskin, if it seems too short - you don't buy it. Your purchase has a direct connection to paying ANet developer's salaries, which is exactly how it should be. They're motivated to make good content that people actually want to buy, and we can punish them for making bad content by not buying it.

The obvious downside is that yes, it will split the community a bit, as some people will have certain dungeons while others won't. That's a real problem, but the same thing happens with expansions, only on a larger scale. The only difference is that everyone is expected to buy an expansion without question (even though that's an even larger investment), but a DLC is still seen as taboo, so it's acceptable if someone doesn't want to buy it.

Lastly, despite what the article says I'm quite certain ANet has implied they won't be selling things like XP boosts in the cash shop. Josh let himself speculate a bit much, methinks.

This to the power of 6.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

#199 Volkon

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:34 PM

Regina Buenaobra said:

I wanted to clear up some misunderstandings coming from the article. We talked to Eric, and he said the following:



In short: We have not made a decision on whether to sell dungeon content as DLC, contrary to what the article states. The author of the article jumped to this (incorrect) conclusion based upon his interpretation of Eric's statements.

Like Eric said in the article and in his statement above, we will look at what the demand is from the players.

Thanks for the clarification Regina. There's always that initial emotional reaction to practically everything new we here. The real blame lies with the article, not with ANet or anyone in these forums. Now we have the facts... let's chill a little and wonder when the next profession release is... :D

#200 ilr

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:34 PM

TedTheShred said:

Beyond simple content and item exclusion, there's feature locking. Example: If you only own Factions for some reason, you only get 1 hero.

IIRC, you don't even get that 1 hero b/c the quest requires you to go to the Consulate Docks to even take it.  However if you also own EotN too, you also get 1 monk, 1 Rit, and 1 Necro which is literally all you'll ever need given how Powercreeped the rest of the Factions skills have become.  IE:  RoJ + Discord/or/FleshGol + SoS/or/SoulTwist is all you'll ever need to totally rape everything in both Chapters.


But the point that it fractures the community worse than before, still stands.  If most people don't buy these DLC's then the ppl who do buy them will have a lot less ppl to team with.  They might even need to form rich-guy guilds if their original guilds don't have enough ppl in them who could afford this extra content (or boycott it).

Edited by ilr, 21 October 2010 - 05:36 PM.


#201 Khaal

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:34 PM

Thank you Regina, however this explosion has probably granted you all with some invaluable information on what at least one segment of the player base wants.

Personally, I vote expansions over DLC.

#202 Unlight

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:35 PM

Mr. G said:

To me this is all moot until I see numbers and top of those numbers are:

1. Price
2. Quantity
3. Free/DLC ratio

I couldn't put it more succinctly.

#203 Tr0n

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:35 PM

Quote

As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say) that we’ll release details on it when they are available and that our core philosophy--of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store--still stands.
In short; items like XP boosts are still on the table.

Quote

If after release you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful.
Oh dear god, please no.

Buy this special 3 story personal mission pack for just $4.99.

Gah...

Edited by Tr0n, 21 October 2010 - 05:40 PM.


#204 Grotar

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:35 PM

Just give us Big expansions every 6 months and dont give us these Community breaking DLC dungeons,

#205 -ajgp-

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:36 PM

Ta for the clarification Regina.

Lesson 1. wait till its official before raging (goes for me as well on the other side)

#206 Auxilium

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:36 PM

Grotar said:

Just give us Big expansions every 6 months and dont give us these Community breaking DLC dungeons,

You sir honestly do not have an slightest idea what you are talking about.

#207 OtterPop

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:37 PM

Ahhh... So its a poorly written article... on the Internet... Go figure! ;)

#208 Versidia

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:37 PM

TedTheShred said:

Alright, there's a solution here that can appease everyone:

ANet goes ahead with their trickle of DLC Dungeons. Let's assume 3 dungeons for $5. This means they get to release a steady stream of content that people pay for, further funding more content.

At the end of 18-24 months, a "Dungeon Pack" is released both digitally and physically. This "Dungeon Pack" contains all of the DLC dungeons released in the last 18-24 months, and goes for what? $30?

People who buy the DLC as it arrives get a head start on the content. People who prefer the longer gestation of expansion packs with more content for more money, get to wait for the big pack to arrive.

Everyone happy?

Oh wait. This is the Internet. Nobody's happy.

If they do that, yes, happy.

#209 thable

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:38 PM

gah! This community is frustratingly touchy! Lets do a little comparison...

A game like Mass Effect (more so mass effect 2) which has about 40 hours of gameplay and costs as much as any other game has some DLC, which is completely optional, and has generally been quite highly praised for what it adds to the game.

Guild Wars 2 will cost the same as mass effect did when it was new, but with hundreds if not thousands of hours of gameplay without buying any more DLC. There is NO subscription fee yet it seems it will deliver as much content as a pay to play MMO. They announce some plans for DLC, which will provide no gameplay advantage, will add more of something already in the game (so you don't need to buy the DLC to experience dungeons in general) and the only way it will affect the rest of the people who havnt bought it is that they wont be able to use one of the many many armour sets in the game.

In summary...

Single player games generally have about 30 hours of play tie in them.
Guild wars 2 costs the same as a single player game with 100's of hours, with no subscription.
Single player games have DLC, so does GW2, and it doens't even add any gameplay advantage?

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM??? Give Anet a break, they are merely creating a modern game, and modern games have DLC.

#210 TriggerSad

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:38 PM

Why are a bunch people in the Guild Wars community so cheep?

I mean, I get it. Most of you don't want to spend a ton of cash on a video game, I know I don't. But if it's something that may very well be less than $20, and can be played over and and over again, then why all the complaints?

Cheep. That what most of you guys are.

Edit: If anything, the only thing I would be against are items that give unfair advantages to players, like XP boosts. Yes, they were in Guild Wars, but they were in the actual game. You got them using gold, and nothing but gold. There's going to be a strong likelihood that in-game store items aren't going to be tradable, and if that the case, then XP boosts are going to be the same... I don't like that. It isn't fair for the people that can't afford to buy bucketload of them, and it isn't fair to the people that just don't want to buy them. Let in-game store items be cosmetic and optional game content. That's what I think at least.

Edited by TriggerSad, 21 October 2010 - 05:42 PM.