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#1 Epixors

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:22 PM

So, today I was pugging for a CoF P1 run (yes, CoF P1, that's how serious this issue is) and clearly stated in the LFG that the requirements were that the people joining for using a zerker setup and weren't ranged.

So a Guardian and Ranger join. The Guardian was running Staff + Mace/Shield with Momentum sigils (extra toughness) and the Ranger was running with bows. I asked the Ranger if he was using it for utility (shortbow get-out-of-jail-panic-button) or if he was actually ranged and mentioned that I asked for melee players only. The two insisted they were good and I shouldn't be such an asshole and stuff, even though I made the request for zerker melee players and they chose to ignore it even after I mentioned it.

Here are some chat logs with the Ranger I had afterwards:

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Not the entire chat, just some funny parts.

TL;DR: He's ignorant, ignores my requests and then proceeds to call me rude because I set a requirement for my PUG to hopefully filter out some of the bads like him.

Edited by Epixors, 24 January 2014 - 07:18 PM.


#2 Beyond Freedom

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:12 PM

You go into a pool party where everyone is having a good time and in various states of inebriation. You say HAY IS NE1 UP 4 A 4LEGGED RACE (btw you must be an Olympic swimmer and Nobel laureate). Some people go YEA Y NOT. You have your race and didn't beat your personal all-time record. You proceed to lay into your team mate who is wearing a pirate hat and a false moustache attached to his boxers: Y U NOT SRS U DONT HAVE OLYMPIX SCRUB U MADE ME LOOSE.

Who has the problem?

#3 Epixors

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:18 PM

View PostBeyond Freedom, on 24 January 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

You go into a pool party where everyone is having a good time and in various states of inebriation. You say HAY IS NE1 UP 4 A 4LEGGED RACE (btw you must be an Olympic swimmer and Nobel laureate). Some people go YEA Y NOT. You have your race and didn't beat your personal all-time record. You proceed to lay into your team mate who is wearing a pirate hat and a false moustache attached to his boxers: Y U NOT SRS U DONT HAVE OLYMPIX SCRUB U MADE ME LOOSE.

Who has the problem?

Not a good example.

The point is that I stated specific requirements for people that wanted to enter the party, and they chose to ignore said requirements. I have no problem if they play how they want, however they shouldn't join parties that request for parties consisting of experienced players with a DPS setup in melee range and then go tanky/ranged.

It's their choice to play how they want, it's mine to decide what I put up in the LFG tool and I expect people to abide by what I put there. Sometimes I get people that don't read it, I explain it to them and they either apologize or switch some stuff around, I have no problem with that. However if they proceed even after I explained my request it's rude.

The one who has the problem is me. I get this kind of stuff every single time I PUG and I really want to know if others are having a similar experience.

#4 Brandon the Don

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:18 PM

And... you expect these things to not occur with Pugs often because?

It is an interesting read for someone like many who knows the game mechanics, but quite frankly, these guys are all over the game, so it stopped being funny to me...

What surprises me though is that you tried to lecture them in game, I have never ever found someone who'd admit that he is wrong about anything :P

#5 Beyond Freedom

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:23 PM

View PostEpixors, on 24 January 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

I expect people to abide by what I put there

This is your problem right here. They don't understand your request. This is what I mean by the drunk pool party, they are just there to have a good time and assume you are too, whatever you say. If you want Olympic swimmers and Nobel laureates you're not going to find them in the pool party, find them out of band and arrange it privately.

#6 Desild

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:31 PM

So you are promoting gear elitism in game, chew out on a Ranger, no less, for using "ranged" weapons, and expect sympathy from us? Neat.

Maybe I should guest on your server then, just so I can find you and join your PUG. Only to vex you no less, because I run full Clerics. I'll even give you consent to post the screenshots of your lecture to me. That would be a lovely experience!

#7 Echou

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:34 PM

I see your Cleric set and raise you a nude run.

#8 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:37 PM

If i love tall Brunettes and want them in my company short Blondes are not welcome !

OP is right he wanted something specific, he got something he didn`t wanted....not his fault, neither fault of ranger.....this game wanted to be different by any means so they choose to ignore all postulates of MMO genre and we got halfbreed that only works with full DPS, everything else is just meh.... !!!

#9 Katsumi Kei

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:41 PM

Yup, some people never read the group discription. Few days ago i wrote i want people with 4k achievement points or more for full AC run, yet some guy with 600 AP joins... "Well, sorry, sir, but you got on the wrong train."

Yet, there is another thing that irratated me to infinity. I rescently joined a "FULL Zerk, gear check" group as GS warrior. I am actually full berserker gear wearing exotic GS, ascended/exotic trinkets and rare armor - simply because i have to make exotic and than transmutate it back to my original cooler armor and i don't wanna waste money for that.
I was kicked halfway showing my gear, no explanation, no warning.

The elitist mentality here is a very negative thing, but it can't be fought or encouraged. I actually made zerker warrior because people would kick me from parties only for being a thief.

Look, I understand the reasons for your frustration, but in a MMO you are bound to encounter individuals who will strongly disagree with your opinion or would simply not care. How robust do you expect a LFT to be? Allowing gear chek or doing it automaticly? Nah, just chill and find friends to group with. :)

#10 Brandon the Don

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:55 PM

View PostKatsumi Kei, on 24 January 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

Look, I understand the reasons for your frustration, but in a MMO you are bound to encounter individuals who will strongly disagree with your opinion or would simply not care. How robust do you expect a LFT to be? Allowing gear chek or doing it automaticly? Nah, just chill and find friends to group with. :)

This.

And this goes for everyone with any kind of gear/build... If you want to make sure no one bothers you with their setup, then avoid them like the plague and get a group to do these events with them...

Or, simply don't expect anything from a pug... ever..

#11 Desild

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:57 PM

View PostEchou, on 24 January 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

I see your Cleric set and raise you a nude run.

You're cool man. Kudos.

View PostKatsumi Kei, on 24 January 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

Yup, some people never read the group discription. Few days ago i wrote i want people with 4k achievement points or more for full AC run, yet some guy with 600 AP joins... "Well, sorry, sir, but you got on the wrong train."

So me having 8k achievement points makes it alright for me to join your PUG? Or do you want people who've been playing for more than 6 months to join you? That's even worse than what Epixors did.

Had this Thief joining my CoE daily run. All three paths, no breaks. He had about 1,5k achievement points and alpha tore him a new one. Know what I did. I laughed, patted him in the back, he and myself and my friends had a great time, I cracked a few of my legendary jokes and the guy actually learned something about CoE and how to do it properly. By path 3 he was dying significantly less.

We are the change we bring to the world my friends. That is all.

Edited by Desild, 24 January 2014 - 05:01 PM.


#12 Satenia

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:10 PM

The time you wasted having this chat is far greater than the time he could possibly have wasted in your CoF run. That's the truly amusing part of this thread.

#13 Chasing Wind

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:11 PM

oh! right here! >.> right here! i have the same problems with people in FoTM! Everyday, i post:

49 glf war or guard. 55 AR Req. Enter Fast. Must use Food AND oil/sharpening stones or get kicked.

Now, This is 49 and apparently, even at high levels... people don't read. I always get the necros or rangers that think just because they have high AP means its all good.  You know what they get? a swift kick and they deserve it. My suggestion is just kicking them and don't even stress out. They will soon learn to read advertisements fully, and if they dont... that's their problem.

I also get the occasional war or guardian who dont use the oils or sharpening stones or any food. They get booted too!
I whisper people all the time: Just take the time to read ads before joining groups, and you wont have a bad day.

#14 Katsumi Kei

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:12 PM

View PostDesild, on 24 January 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

~~~~~~~~~

Well, no. I don't think that is such a bad thing. I mean, isn't it normal if i am tired and just want to do few fast dungeon runs with ease? I too have a lot of AP, but wanted people who played the game and knew what they are doing in my party. This is what the description is for, right?
It's not like i forced someone to play the way i want and nothing else.
No, sorry, i do not agree with you. Reading the group description before joining is something every new player should do.

#15 Yuberoth

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:20 PM

View PostSatenia, on 24 January 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

The time you wasted having this chat is far greater than the time he could possibly have wasted in your CoF run. That's the truly amusing part of this thread.
Agree, the TC doesnt realise that he is in fact, "the pug experience".

#16 Konzacelt

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:26 PM

Wait, he was serious about the 4k Achievement Point requirement?

I thought he was being sarcastic...

#17 Datenshi92

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:36 PM

View PostBeyond Freedom, on 24 January 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

This is your problem right here. They don't understand your request. This is what I mean by the drunk pool party, they are just there to have a good time and assume you are too, whatever you say. If you want Olympic swimmers and Nobel laureates you're not going to find them in the pool party, find them out of band and arrange it privately.

^
I wish I could like comments twice.


+OP;
If PUGs bother you that much then you're better off just grouping up frequently with people you know and like, that's what guilds are for. You could tell me that if I don't want to join then I could find another PUG but when I see a LFG list literally filled with elitist requests (a few days ago I was about to do AC and came across 6 ads, all "Pay-up speed run" for AC), it doesn't really leave me much option as I assume that almost everyone who's playing or looking for a group is just requesting people who won Nobel prizes before or want my money to do it.

Gladly I solved the issue by the root when I made some friends in this game a few months ago, now I do dungeons with them almost everyday and with the exception of derp days, we do pretty well together.

Edited by Datenshi92, 24 January 2014 - 05:42 PM.


#18 Epixors

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:42 PM

View PostSatenia, on 24 January 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

The time you wasted having this chat is far greater than the time he could possibly have wasted in your CoF run. That's the truly amusing part of this thread.

Because I don't mind having a discussion, I do mind people not willing to realize that they shouldn't have joined in the first place so I want to prevent it from happening as much as possible.

View PostDesild, on 24 January 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

So you are promoting gear elitism in game, chew out on a Ranger, no less, for using "ranged" weapons, and expect sympathy from us? Neat.

Maybe I should guest on your server then, just so I can find you and join your PUG. Only to vex you no less, because I run full Clerics. I'll even give you consent to post the screenshots of your lecture to me. That would be a lovely experience!

I wasn't. I am fine with you running your fabulous Cleric set (for the love of god don't enter my PUG if I'm asking for a DPS setup please) and I am fine with Rangers using ranged weapons, however they should read what it says, it's like ignoring a traffic sign and saying "well screw those law abiding elitist I'm just gonna ignore that". Also a ranger doesn't specifically mean ranged weapons, it's a wrong idea that a lot of people seem to have, they're not archers (heck you even start out with axe).

And yes, if I request for a DPS setup and you enter with your Cleric's setup and proceed to ignore my request I will probably lecture you.

I don't see how what I did is a bad thing. I asked for a specific thing that I enjoy, someone else joins and ruins that for me. How is it bad that I lecture that person?

Also to everyone who took the time to reply, don't worry I don't PUG that often :P It's just that nearly every time that I DO it results in stuff like this, in the rare case I find competent players they usually end up on my friends list.

#19 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:57 PM

The entitlement is strong with this thread.

Look, I never make parties with special demands and, if possible, I also never join special-demands parties: it's simply not how I want to play this game. But just because I don't care about finishing in record speed, that doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way also: if people want special demands to be fulfilled by their party members, then I absolutely want these demands to be put out in the open as clearly as possible: if for no other reason so that I know which parties not to join.


Stop being ultra ♥♥♥♥s and stop demanding that everyone should be forced to play with you.

#20 Robsy128

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:58 PM

I believe marriage counselling is in order for you and that guy ;)

I can understand your frustration, but let's be honest... a lot of the players don't speak English and when they do, you usually get some ignorant poo who gives you  hard time because you're playing the way you want. I would recommend getting into a guild and finding a regular party to do this kind of thing, simply because it's almost impossible to find a PUG party that will actually read.

The amount of parties I've been in that were silent...

#21 Konzacelt

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:29 PM

View PostEpixors, on 24 January 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

Also a ranger doesn't specifically mean ranged weapons, it's a wrong idea that a lot of people seem to have, they're not archers (heck you even start out with axe).

...that they throw.  Axe is a ranged weapon for Rangers btw.  Wrong topic though.

I still don't get the Achievement point req though, am I missing something?

#22 Epixors

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:33 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 24 January 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

...that they throw.  Axe is a ranged weapon for Rangers btw.  Wrong topic though.

I still don't get the Achievement point req though, am I missing something?

Yeah I know, just meant to clarify that Ranger != Archer

Also I have no idea about the AP.

#23 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:35 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 24 January 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

I still don't get the Achievement point req though, am I missing something?

The point is that the game demands certain qualities from its players, yet fails to give players the tools to search for said qualities in potential party members. Thus players resort to tools that are available, such as APs. These tools might not be perfect (and they really aren't), but in the eyes of said players, they are better than nothing.

#24 Andemius

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:09 PM

View PostEpixors, on 24 January 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

snip

I agree completely. If I advertise a party, then people join who have ignored the requirements I feel no guilt over "chewing them out", as it were.

I find the example pretty darn funny. Like anyone doesn't know CoF1 is 100% about damage, and there's no reason to go ranged (not ranger, ranged :D). Just shows the intellectual level of some of the playerbase I guess.

#25 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:04 PM

Oh God that's me! D:

#26 Krazzar

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:14 PM

Usually if such a situation arises I explain simply why I am asking for something.  That is if you want to keep them around, you can always just kick them without a word.  I have found if I explain my intentions and the game plan people are more likely to make a change to fit the plan.  This goes all the way back to GW1 where we would talk as a team about what we were doing. I have found if you make people feel included in the decision of the group they are more likely to respect you and follow through, and you can talk about the full plan and tactics to have a better team overall. If you're just being what they percieve as an authoritarian jerk you probably won't get anywhere with them and they'll start to gang up on you because no one likes authoritarian jerks. If they still don't want to change you can respectfully say something like, "I think you'd be more useful in another group".  People just want to be respected and feel like they're part of a team.

I've also found the method above also leads to better teams that know how to work together better, have better builds that complement each other, and generally communicate more and are friendlier.

Just being a snob doesn't really work since you have no authority.  I don't think certain players should have authority over others anyway.  I have some experience with team-building and all that cliche crap, so I think it's important to say the team (party) has to all be on the same page and have the same motivations and intent going in to any project (or event). Even if someone is technically perfect they might not fit the intent of your group and that's ok, you just have to know how to spot that and respectfully let them know.

Edited by Krazzar, 24 January 2014 - 08:19 PM.


#27 UnDeadFun

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:27 PM

I don't have an issue with pug "special requests". However if speed is key why waste time trying to argue, just kick and re-enter LFG? Spending time arguing/ lecturing with someone like that is pointless.

#28 Iviviana

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:44 PM

All this person was asking for was for a fast run of CoF, you get a fast run from full zeker and melee, nothing wrong with that. People should learn to read descriptions of what is wanted for in a group. If someone joins without reading the description it's their own fault for getting kicked. He wasn't being rude to the person getting kicked, he had stated it from the start that he wanted zerker and melee, if they would've read that, none of this would've happened. They could learn to start their own group and find people that don't care what they run for that dungeon and learn to respect others requests for how they want to play the game.

#29 Epixors

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 09:08 PM

View PostUnDeadFun, on 24 January 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

I don't have an issue with pug "special requests". However if speed is key why waste time trying to argue, just kick and re-enter LFG? Spending time arguing/ lecturing with someone like that is pointless.

I had the conversation after the run.

View PostIviviana, on 24 January 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

All this person was asking for was for a fast run of CoF, you get a fast run from full zeker and melee, nothing wrong with that. People should learn to read descriptions of what is wanted for in a group. If someone joins without reading the description it's their own fault for getting kicked. He wasn't being rude to the person getting kicked, he had stated it from the start that he wanted zerker and melee, if they would've read that, none of this would've happened. They could learn to start their own group and find people that don't care what they run for that dungeon and learn to respect others requests for how they want to play the game.

Actually I didn't kick them, I just let them tag along because I'd been having the problem for half an hour or something and was getting tired of it.

EDIT: Just had an epicly funny CoE pug tho, nice peeps.

Edited by Epixors, 24 January 2014 - 09:08 PM.


#30 Phineas Poe

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:38 PM

Some of the comments in this thread make me scratch my head. Speed clear groups seek like-minded individuals that construct their builds appropriately. It's the same thing everyone did in GW1. If you wanted a Masters run, you advertised yourself as such.

There's no reason why both player bases cannot co-exist and both have a satisfying experience in-game. They just have to make a point to advertise themselves appropriately, which the OP actually did. I don't 100% agree with his mindset, but going into a speed clear group with a shortbow ranger or a mace guardian? Uh, k.

Two pug idiots failed to read the group description and deservedly got chewed out for it. I don't see the controversy.

Edited by Phineas Poe, 24 January 2014 - 10:39 PM.





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