Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
* - - - - 2 votes

Your opinion about PvP bans over missed Solo Tournaments


  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#1 Dusty Friday

Dusty Friday

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:49 AM

Posted Image


Well, this is the kind of 'ban' I am talking about. I actually wrote a thread about this in reddit, but I'm not going to lie - it went terrible. The backstory is that I accidentally failed to enter a few (2-3) solo tournaments and ended up receiving this debuff. People on reddit compared my case to 'me running people over with a car because I did not pay attention'. I'm not going to comment on that.

What I do want to comment on are these facts:
  • Solo Tournament games could last less than 10 minutes.
  • Solo Tournament games cannot be chained for consecutive games (unlike RA from GW1).
  • Losing one Solo Tournament game does not equal 2 days of lost personal time.
  • Having -1 person in your team does not guarantee a loss for your team (won a 4v5 game last night), and it doesn't mean that you will not gain glory or rewards.
  • Again, I really feel that this has to be stressed out - me not entering a few Solo Tournament games does not equal to two days of lost time for the team that I failed to join!
What's really interesting here, is that the random people I talked to about this in-game (in guild chat, map chat, skype chats) were shocked by this ban, saying that it was indeed too extreme and uncalled for. People on reddit, on the other hand, seemed to believe that I was some kind of an evil man, who really wanted to screw people over by not joining games and got off on it. In reality, I was simply alt-tabbed too often and failed to check the 'go now' timer frequently enough. Surely, I still believe that 2 days of a ban for something like this is crazy. Not even GW1 applied this kind of punishment. Not to mention that I couldn't even enter these games in the first place, and the game still counted them as if I entered them and stayed afk with my hero.

Furthermore, let me say that Solo Tournaments cannot be deemed as a serious mode. People that say 'go back to hotjoin' are hilarious. Solo Tournaments is anything, but serious. Two day bans because of it? That's really, really out of line. Solo Tournament is a free mode, meaning nobody loses anything, except a few minutes of their time. I did not cost other players their money. But their 20-40 minutes of time while playing 4v5 cost me about 49 hours.

As a player who has played GW series since their beginning, and who has invested more than 5k hours overall into these games day and night - this punishment system is bullshi*. Please excuse my language, but I am trying to see how that ban is reasonable, and I simply can't. I also wrote a ticked to Anet, only to be met with a 'we cannot service you at this time' auto-reply. They completely ignored me. Why should I continue supporting them? I've already invested so much time and money into this franchise.

Edited by Dusty Friday, 31 January 2014 - 08:56 AM.


#2 rukia

rukia

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 603 posts
  • Location:Oregon
  • Profession:Thief
  • Server:Kaineng

Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:33 AM

It has to be extreme because people ditch out all the time leaving it 5v4 which is INCREDIBLY annoying. You can blame the terrible match making in this game for that, it's already been suggested that they should just implement the GW1 system (banned for 30 min from pvp) but as we all know they simply ignore the pvp community.

I wouldn't worry about it.. odds are you could use a break from this games shit pvp, grind pve for a few days. I've had the buff multiple times because if I get skyhammer I leave immediately, I don't even care. That map is just atrocious.

Eventually I just started going team arena where trollhammer doesn't exist. And TA is just as free as yolo q.

In the end it's your fault, if you queue you should at least have the decency of staying until it pops, you were met with such hostility because we players that have been there since the beginning have endured so many 5v4 that it makes your blood boil.

It's basically saying "Cool, instant loss. But I have to stay here so WE don't get the debuff as well." and that's where everyone just loses morale and gives up, start running around the map for no reason.

On some maps you can still win but on heavy secondary objectives like lord and treb and svanir etc. chances are you are wasting your time. You will get no sympathy unfortunately.

#3 swordmagic

swordmagic

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 37 posts
  • Location:Holland
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[OTA]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:44 AM

I dont know what ur complaining about Dusty.
Sure, the punishment may be a bit harsh, but it isnt given when you 1 time miss a match but several times.
U feel punished too hard, what about the people who joined up with u ?

If u dont have the time, dont sign up for it.
Easy as that.

#4 Dusty Friday

Dusty Friday

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:47 AM

But this was my point - it's never like 'Cool, isntant loss.'

You can win 4v5 games. I hate being part of them, but I've managed to win them with the help of the remaining 3 players. Why? Because we did not give up. You cannot say that I don't have 'decency' to wait for the pop-up if you say something like: "if I get skyhammer I leave immediately, I don't even care". I never leave games like that, which is why I thought this punishment is kind of crazy. I consider myself a decent player and I don't try to screw players over in any way, at least not by my own desire.

Note that my ban is long over, as this happened during the previous weekend. Please, guys, know that I am not complaining that I got punished. This is very important for me to say. I accept my punishment, as I deserve it. But two who days is crazy!! I am willing to accept a real punishment, which would be no more than 2, maybe 3 hours. But 49 hours, come on!

Edited by Dusty Friday, 31 January 2014 - 09:48 AM.


#5 rukia

rukia

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 603 posts
  • Location:Oregon
  • Profession:Thief
  • Server:Kaineng

Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:51 AM

I don't like screwing people over either, that comment was directed towards the debuff. But I've seen whole teams ditch that map lol.

4v5 will never work when you're up against good players.

#6 Dusty Friday

Dusty Friday

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:56 AM

Well, yes - that's true, but this is why I want to consider only Solo Tournaments. They are random, so you cannot choose the players you play with. In some moments you might end up with a full team, but 3 of those players might have no idea what they are doing. So, the other team will win regardles of your numbers.

It just seems to me that this punishment for this mode in particular is not proprotional. I wouldn't speak against it in Team Tournaments, but this is the random solo tournament mode we are talking about. Random is a word that is a synonym of accidental, unplanned, and so on. I just fail to see how a random pvp mode can slap such punishments to its players.

#7 gw2guruaccount

gw2guruaccount

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 892 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:33 PM

In order to gauge whether this was too harsh for you then you'd have to genuinely tell us why you went missing. I mean if you were off saving a life I'd be lenient but odds are you were just talking to your SO on the phone and giggled away half an hour before an "oh shit!" went off or something domestic like that.

LoL, DoTA, and other games that rely on tPvP have the same elements.

#8 Dusty Friday

Dusty Friday

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:00 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 31 January 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

In order to gauge whether this was too harsh for you then you'd have to genuinely tell us why you went missing. I mean if you were off saving a life I'd be lenient but odds are you were just talking to your SO on the phone and giggled away half an hour before an "oh shit!" went off or something domestic like that.

LoL, DoTA, and other games that rely on tPvP have the same elements.

"but odds are you were just talking to your SO on the phone and giggled away half an hour before an "oh shit!" went off or something domestic like that"

It is exactly this type of person that rushes to label something without having a single bit of factual information to support his/hers claim with. Something domestic like that.

#9 Symbiont

Symbiont

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2710 posts
  • Guild Tag:[NULL]

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:07 PM

au revoir leavers, see you in a few days!

hah, the debuff is a bit long. but i'm glad they put it in the game to combat leavers, it just needs some refinement so it won't hurt the players who "accidently" missed a game.

edit: "Each stack of dishonor lasts for 72 hours. If a player has the maximum amount of dishonor (3 stacks), they will be prevented from joining rated games."

just looked up on its mechanism, sounds fine by me. au revoir!
it should detect on afk players as well.

Edited by Symbiont, 31 January 2014 - 01:11 PM.


#10 gw2guruaccount

gw2guruaccount

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 892 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:09 PM

View PostDusty Friday, on 31 January 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

"but odds are you were just talking to your SO on the phone and giggled away half an hour before an "oh shit!" went off or something domestic like that"

It is exactly this type of person that rushes to label something without having a single bit of factual information to support his/hers claim with. Something domestic like that.

Isn't that why I said you'd genuinely have to tell us so we can make an appropriate judgment? The odds are high, ridiculously so, that nothing went wrong and demanded your absolute attention because if something of that nature did then we would sympathize and you'd likely have said so but you didn't as that's a major selling point for the concept. Your not being defensive you're just reinforcing the idea that you got up and AFKed for no good reason.

I.E. "My boss called me about a multi-million dollar deal and I just got up and left to handle the call because my job is more important than the game" would be something we'd be half-and-half on but "I accidently just AFKed, derp"?

No one will miss someone who "accidently" just meanders off.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 31 January 2014 - 01:11 PM.


#11 Datenshi92

Datenshi92

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2391 posts
  • Location:Somewhere
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:17 PM

View PostDusty Friday, on 31 January 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

In reality, I was simply alt-tabbed too often and failed to check the 'go now' timer frequently enough.




There you have the source of your problem.

There's no way for ANet to know whether your missed it "on purpose" or not, what they do know is that you "skipped" your own commitment to a tournament team. It doesn't matter if sometimes, in 4x5 teams, the minority wins, it doesn't matter if tournaments can be won in 10 minutes, it was your own responsibility to BE THERE - if you miss your appointment with your dentist then you will have to re-schedule it, the dentist ins't going to stop their procedure with their current patient just because you didn't kept track of time and feel "very sorry for it".

Where I live (we're not even at war but its still an obligation), everyone over 18 has to participate in the "National Defense Day" - it's a militar thing - if I skip it, then I'm going to get an expensive ticket to pay and if I don't, then I will get arrested and they don't care if its pouring rain or even if I'm sick (not unless I get a paper signed by my doctor as prove of a serious illness) - and the worst is that its not even a thing I willingly requested to be a part of, unlike what you did when you chose to participate in the tournament!

Is 2 days too long of a punishment? I do not know, but I do know that if this is a new measure, then it will take a few good weeks till things get tuned out properly, as the first examples are always the harshest ones to set out a tone for the others. Still, it was your own fault.

Edited by Datenshi92, 31 January 2014 - 01:41 PM.


#12 Dusty Friday

Dusty Friday

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:28 PM

It really doesn't matter if we still can't get past the part where I tell you 'the punishment is too long' and you tell me 'stop crying because you got punished'.

Edited by Dusty Friday, 31 January 2014 - 01:41 PM.


#13 Feathermoore

Feathermoore

    Underdog

  • Super Moderators
  • 3836 posts
  • Guild Tag:[AWWW]
  • Server:Crystal Desert

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:44 PM

View PostDusty Friday, on 31 January 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

nvm nvmnvmnvmnvmnvmnvmnvmnvm

Most of Anet's punitive measures lean towards the high end of what people would deem fair and a decent amount flirt with the "extreme" designator. Is it fair you were punished? Yes. Is the two day slap extreme? Maybe? Is it an escalating system? I wouldn't know, I have never had dishonorable in GW2.

Edited by Feathermoore, 31 January 2014 - 01:46 PM.
removed response to deleted content

Little Mabel won't be able to be here it's our worst fear. She's busy working on her garden that she's growing up in space.


Why hello there forumite. Would you like me to review some moderation you did not agree with? Never fear! PM is here! Want to be a better poster? Check on this link! And this one!


#14 Dusty Friday

Dusty Friday

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:46 PM

I did fail to read, indeed. And thus, I deleted what I wrote, unlike others. Do you know why I failed to read it? Because I am at work, doing my job. Which means I have a valid excuse, so there you go. :)

#15 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:49 PM

I think what's terrible is that there's still no pause/forfeit option. These punitive measures could be avoided with better usability features. Shit happens in life, and people shouldn't punished so harshly for having forgo gameplay to deal with real life issues.

#16 Dusty Friday

Dusty Friday

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:55 PM

I would be humbled and never say a word if Anet implement a way for the game to inform a user when a match has started. Sometimes you need to wait 5-10 minutes. Why force us to stay idle while waiting? When I do pvp I only want to do PvP, so while I wait and have nothing else to do - I browse the internet. I completely fail to understand why a game like GW 2 - the game which is all about innovative decisions and design in favor to the players - hasn't got a way to inform us about new games. Starcraft 2 and War Thunder have it. GW2 needs to have it. Also, this ridiculous punishment needs to be reduced, or applied only on players that systematically leave games. I am not one of those people.

Edited by Dusty Friday, 31 January 2014 - 01:58 PM.


#17 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:32 PM

The ban seems like ANet trying to kill a fly with a bomb...because they don't have the finesse to swat it. It's a usability issue through and through. The game is basically asking you to wait so many minutes and then it punishes quite harshly for not paying attention while waiting for who knows how long. That's asinine. It technically is your responsibility to your team, but it's also unreasonable for the game to demand you to jump through such hoops just to contribute. Add to the fact that part of the issues with long queues has to do with the population and the game is basically shooting itself in the foot by locking out players for days.

#18 Dusty Friday

Dusty Friday

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:47 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 31 January 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

The ban seems like ANet trying to kill a fly with a bomb...because they don't have the finesse to swat it. It's a usability issue through and through. The game is basically asking you to wait so many minutes and then it punishes quite harshly for not paying attention while waiting for who knows how long. That's asinine. It technically is your responsibility to your team, but it's also unreasonable for the game to demand you to jump through such hoops just to contribute. Add to the fact that part of the issues with long queues has to do with the population and the game is basically shooting itself in the foot by locking out players for days.

This was the biggest surprise for me. It is not unknown that the player base (at least in terms of PvP players) is not really that big. I was flabbergasted to find out that they would do that. Not only are players slowly drifting away because of the simplicity and lack of variety in these Arena modes, but they also intentially drive players away by limiting their play time. It really does seem like a bullet shot to their own foot by themselves. This is why I have trouble understanding players who immediately jump to put the blame of lack of attention, or anything like that.

This is a game, people, we are not meant to be 100% concentrated and with full power 24/7 while playing. (P.S. I actually did that with my old guild in GW1, but that was because GvG actually MEANT something) We are meant to relax there and to enjoy ourselves. I made the mistake of not paying enough attention and I admit that, but two days ban!!! :o

Edited by Dusty Friday, 31 January 2014 - 02:48 PM.


#19 gw2guruaccount

gw2guruaccount

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 892 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:57 PM

Let me just give my opinion on the ban rather than with relation to your case.

Do I think the ban is harsh? Yes. Do I think the ban is effective? Yes. If you're going to AFK or whatever the ban itself is designed, unlike LoL / DoTA, etc. to create a single, lasting impression.

You're supposed to do this, right here, go on a forum or throw a fit, because that's where the effect sticks. It's not "Oh, banned for 15m., gonna make a sandwich" it's "HOLY ♥♥♥♥ 3 DAYS!? REALLY?" followed by "fine, I won't do that again."

Essentially it cuts down on repeat offenders and the threat itself ( Which is openly stated as punishment and not suckerpunched with sudden implementation ) is enough to keep people in line.

Harsh can effective it appears.

View PostDusty Friday, on 31 January 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

This is a game, people, we are not meant to be 100% concentrated and with full power 24/7 while playing. (P.S. I actually did that with my old guild in GW1, but that was because GvG actually MEANT something) We are meant to relax there and to enjoy ourselves. I made the mistake of not paying enough attention and I admit that, but two days ban!!! :o

Here's the deal; when you AFK in a teamwork based setting you're disrespecting other real people. It's not just a game at that point. It's not just leisure at that point. It's genuine interaction and total disregard for other people. That should be taken seriously.

Whether the format is deemed as a "game", a "project", or a "cause" if you're not going to be a productive member then why should the others suffer for your ineptitude? If this was a work-related project and you said the same thing, that you didn't get your part done because you didn't feel like it, and asked why are you being fired we would laugh in your face.

Think that through.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 31 January 2014 - 03:05 PM.


#20 Dusty Friday

Dusty Friday

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:22 PM

Again, let's not discuss the mechanics behind this whole situation, because there is no point in it. I've already admitted my mistake. Your explaining its effects is irrelevant. The first part of your post is the thing that matters.

You believe that the ban is effective, but your belief is perhaps something that doesn't apply to everyone. Was it effective? Oh, yes, it was. When I shared it with my old guildmates - it re-assured their decisions to not play the game. It reduced my desire to play the game. Do you think I have all the time in the world and that I will invest it in this game just because it's 'a team effort'. No, random arenas are not a team effort. They are random. Accidental. Unexpected. You get in, do your thing, hope that the rest do it too, and get out. There is no pre-planning. There is no team build that you worked on for hours, until the morning, and want to test with your teammates.

So please, stop trying to sell me this idea that accidentally skipping a few games equals extraordinary amounts of disrespect to other people.

Furthermore, nowhere have I ever said that I didn't do my part 'because I didn't feel like it'. Please do not put words into my mouth.

#21 gw2guruaccount

gw2guruaccount

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 892 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:18 PM

View PostDusty Friday, on 31 January 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

Again, let's not discuss the mechanics behind this whole situation, because there is no point in it. I've already admitted my mistake. Your explaining its effects is irrelevant. The first part of your post is the thing that matters.

You believe that the ban is effective, but your belief is perhaps something that doesn't apply to everyone. Was it effective? Oh, yes, it was. When I shared it with my old guildmates - it re-assured their decisions to not play the game. It reduced my desire to play the game. Do you think I have all the time in the world and that I will invest it in this game just because it's 'a team effort'. No, random arenas are not a team effort. They are random. Accidental. Unexpected. You get in, do your thing, hope that the rest do it too, and get out. There is no pre-planning. There is no team build that you worked on for hours, until the morning, and want to test with your teammates.

So please, stop trying to sell me this idea that accidentally skipping a few games equals extraordinary amounts of disrespect to other people.

Furthermore, nowhere have I ever said that I didn't do my part 'because I didn't feel like it'. Please do not put words into my mouth.

Read the bolded.

The penalty is not in place because of the action but because of the mindset. You talk about how playing this game somehow inconveniences you. The entire idea behind the ban is that ANet does not ( and no one else really ) want your mindset around. It's annoying when someone just leaves and they excuse themselves as "not having all the time in the world" when they contradict themselves saying "it's just a game" and "so what I alt+tabbed?" > You have plenty of time to waste other people's time with your discourtesy. That's all you've proven.

I'm not selling you anything. You're doing this to yourself.

Let me make this explicitly clear: It isn't the fact that you left; it is the fact that you left without remorse. You didn't have the sensibility, dignity, or wisdom to just stop playing and close the window or leave the matches; you missed 3 games, that's alt east 5 mins. as a window for you to actually sensibly realize you weren't playing.

Yet you come here as a "victim" asking if it's "harsh" and talking about how it makes you not want to play despite the fact that under no reasonable circumstances are you defensible. Your that gamer that sucks that no one wants to play with right now. You're the kid who just leaves the dungeon because he gets bored on the hardest bosses or quits PvP because he doesn't have top score. That's you right now.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 31 January 2014 - 05:23 PM.


#22 El Duderino

El Duderino

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2248 posts
  • Location:Drowning in a White Russian listening to Creedence
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[DuDE]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:30 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 31 January 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

The ban seems like ANet trying to kill a fly with a bomb...because they don't have the finesse to swat it. It's a usability issue through and through. The game is basically asking you to wait so many minutes and then it punishes quite harshly for not paying attention while waiting for who knows how long. That's asinine. It technically is your responsibility to your team, but it's also unreasonable for the game to demand you to jump through such hoops just to contribute. Add to the fact that part of the issues with long queues has to do with the population and the game is basically shooting itself in the foot by locking out players for days.

It is the typical band-aid reactionary response that is typical of ANet, and a lot of companies to be honest. Instead of researching the problem, figuring out why it is happening and coming up with an elegant solution, the company instead makes a sweeping change that doesn't fix the source of the problem and will most likely cause more harm than good in their efforts to promote a healthy sPvP scene.

#23 gw2guruaccount

gw2guruaccount

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 892 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:36 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 31 January 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

It is the typical band-aid reactionary response that is typical of ANet, and a lot of companies to be honest. Instead of researching the problem, figuring out why it is happening and coming up with an elegant solution, the company instead makes a sweeping change that doesn't fix the source of the problem and will most likely cause more harm than good in their efforts to promote a healthy sPvP scene.

External problems cannot be solved through internal planning. Simply put you can't stop your players from ever going AFK and you cannot change their mindsets with any element whether it be more intensive gameplay or easier access to rewards. Blaming ANet for the bad behavior of players beyond their scope and control is ridiculous.

No, I'm being "close-minded"; instead of proposing the simple and obvious:

What would you do?

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 31 January 2014 - 05:37 PM.


#24 Baron von Scrufflebutt

Baron von Scrufflebutt

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3266 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:38 PM

There's no way to justify 4v5.
At the same time, there's also no way to justify shitty PvP with a lack of necessary functions.

The difference is what players themselves can do about those issues: those 4 guys can't do anything about you not showing up. Hence, dishonourable. You, on the other hand, have the tools to combat combat shitty PvP: don't do it. Maybe if even less people start playing it, then maybe A.Net will actually start paying attention to it.

#25 Konzacelt

Konzacelt

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 562 posts
  • Location:a prairie under a clear, blue sky
  • Guild Tag:[PD]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:47 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 31 January 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

Yet you come here as a "victim" asking if it's "harsh" and talking about how it makes you not want to play despite the fact that under no reasonable circumstances are you defensible. Your that gamer that sucks that no one wants to play with right now. You're the kid who just leaves the dungeon because he gets bored on the hardest bosses or quits PvP because he doesn't have top score. That's you right now.

Dude, stow the vitriol already.  I don't know if Friday's actions are right or wrong, but blatantly saying he/she effing sucks because of it doesn't do anyone any good.

Lighten up.

#26 gw2guruaccount

gw2guruaccount

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 892 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:01 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 31 January 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

Dude, stow the vitriol already.  I don't know if Friday's actions are right or wrong, but blatantly saying he/she effing sucks because of it doesn't do anyone any good.

Lighten up.

We complain about these people all the time, entire threads have recently stated "It should be instanced content so we don't get incompetent people" but here we are not flipping a nut over someone who admittedly cares nothing for his teammates or his impact on the game in general and has the gall to state that he is inconvenienced to the point where his completely willful participation is so stressful upon him that he chooses to break contract, break rules, and is appalled by the weight of the punishment levied against him.

How it is that the same people can be so hypocritical? "Those open world bosses are hard because so many players suck" yet we have one who cares not to even try and we coddle him questioning if his actions are "right or wrong" when clearly they are wrong. Period. Where is the question? What stifles you in your judgment?

To further the case against him he even states that because they are not people known and there was no pre-planning he is exempt or somehow justified even an in increment in the face of his behaviors. Throughout the entire thread rather than showing remorse and discussing the weight of the punishment he expresses blatant disregard and constant evasion or excuses. This is important to note:

Rather than worry about this player, because I don't care at all that it's this person, think of it as an entity and mindset. It is his mindset that ruins so many matches of PvP all over the internet, doesn't matter if it's a MOBA, this game, or some tactical funhouse like Civilization was anyone who AFKs without valid excuse is a real pisser. We don't like them by and large. To have one ask you if it's really fair that they got punished for leaving? It's just too much. Any and all punishments levied against people are appropriate and it's 2 days for being gone for probably over 10~15 mins.; it's not as if he disappeared for 30s and got a ban, 3 entire matches went on without him with what is effectively a dud ( and handicap ) sitting there.

And there's no remorse. That's where it really gets to me. He. Does. Not. Care.

They, that portion of the playerbase, does not give two shits or a ♥♥♥♥ if they ruin your day or gaming experience. It's "whatever" to them. That's no different than the people who lose Marionette or any other content because "it's just a game" despite everyone else doing their best.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 31 January 2014 - 06:07 PM.


#27 El Duderino

El Duderino

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2248 posts
  • Location:Drowning in a White Russian listening to Creedence
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[DuDE]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:08 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 31 January 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

External problems cannot be solved through internal planning. Simply put you can't stop your players from ever going AFK and you cannot change their mindsets with any element whether it be more intensive gameplay or easier access to rewards. Blaming ANet for the bad behavior of players beyond their scope and control is ridiculous.

No, I'm being "close-minded"; instead of proposing the simple and obvious:

What would you do?

I don't get paid to solve their problems for them. All I get to do is, as a consumer, point out what I dislike and where I see problems.

If you don't think the actions of a developer and their development of a game don't have an influence on behavior in a game, then we should just agree to not talk to each other, because I think that is a load of bollocks as well.

I find it amusing that you sidestep the entire last part of my statement as if it doesn't exist: it is in ANet's best interest to come up with a more elegant solution, because this doesn't help any attempt to get PvP off it's feet. It has the exact opposite effect.

I would also point out that not everyone that gets hit with this ban deserves it. If they were intentionally leaving the game in an act of griefing, then it would be warranted. The problem is that all situations are being handled the same way.

So, someone who goes AFK because it takes forever to get in a group and doesn't respond quickly can get banned. I would say that is inappropriate and a developer problem.

How about the fact that the solo queue is so gosh darn casual that I would never expect to get banned for leaving in the middle of a game - especially if getting blown out. Does CoD ban you for 2 days for leaving in the middle of a match? Hardly.

So, yes, I think this ban is appropriate for certain situations. The problem isn't the ban itself, it is that it extends over too large a group where it most likely shouldn't. That is the problem and there is no elegant solution to that problem, as is typical of ANet.

#28 gw2guruaccount

gw2guruaccount

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 892 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:16 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 31 January 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

I don't get paid to solve their problems for them. All I get to do is, as a consumer, point out what I dislike and where I see problems.

If you don't think the actions of a developer and their development of a game don't have an influence on behavior in a game, then we should just agree to not talk to each other, because I think that is a load of bollocks as well.

I find it amusing that you sidestep the entire last part of my statement as if it doesn't exist: it is in ANet's best interest to come up with a more elegant solution, because this doesn't help any attempt to get PvP off it's feet. It has the exact opposite effect.

I would also point out that not everyone that gets hit with this ban deserves it. If they were intentionally leaving the game in an act of griefing, then it would be warranted. The problem is that all situations are being handled the same way.

So, someone who goes AFK because it takes forever to get in a group and doesn't respond quickly can get banned. I would say that is inappropriate and a developer problem.

How about the fact that the solo queue is so gosh darn casual that I would never expect to get banned for leaving in the middle of a game - especially if getting blown out. Does CoD ban you for 2 days for leaving in the middle of a match? Hardly.

So, yes, I think this ban is appropriate for certain situations. The problem isn't the ban itself, it is that it extends over too large a group where it most likely shouldn't. That is the problem and there is no elegant solution to that problem, as is typical of ANet.

I understand that but let's "pretend" for a moment. What would you do if this was your PvP game? You have a player who AFKs for 15m or so ( at least ).

Also all games suffer from AFK problems so it's a question of effectiveness; does a 2 day ban render as effective? It created this thread. Do step-up bans work such as the LoL model?

I'm not going to buttheads, I'm genuinely asking you what you would do because criticism without a complimenting suggestion is the same as whining.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 31 January 2014 - 06:17 PM.


#29 El Duderino

El Duderino

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2248 posts
  • Location:Drowning in a White Russian listening to Creedence
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[DuDE]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:25 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 31 January 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

I'm not going to buttheads, I'm genuinely asking you what you would do because criticism without a complimenting suggestion is the same as whining.

Here are two quotes from moderators on this forum that disagree with your stance. As such, I'm not going to entertain you and your belligerence.

View PostCorsair, on 31 January 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

It can be incredibly hard to give good and succinct criticism without intimate knowledge of the matter at hand. What people are really good at is pointing out something they see as a problem. Instead of saying that there is no problem or outright denying their solution, try to come up with one that works for more people or try and explain why such a change would have other consequences from it's design. Be collaborative, not combative. This applies regardless of forum or place.

View PostFeathermoore, on 31 January 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

To expand upon this idea a bit, players are not really in a position to determine what the core problem is most of the time. We don't have access to the collected data or metrics that devs have and we can only speak from our own personal experience most of the time. Players are great at pointing out what they think is the issue though. These are usually symptoms of some other central problem that you have to stand back and look at all of the comments to see. Usually this can only really be done on the dev end as they have in game data to support any conclusions they can draw, but sometimes a player is able to bring all the symptoms together and point out a central issue that makes everyone go "huh, that makes perfect sense."

Edited by El Duderino, 31 January 2014 - 06:44 PM.


#30 gw2guruaccount

gw2guruaccount

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 892 posts

Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:32 PM

Your quotations only apply to specific problems with the game not general problems in the gaming universe. You've been dodging responsibility for your words for some time now. "They should find a better solution" > What is a better solution? Corsair literally states:

"Instead of saying that there is no problem or outright denying their solution, try to come up with one that works for more people or try and explain why such a change would have other consequences from it's design."




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users