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Server Population Misinformation?


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#1 Konzacelt

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:19 AM

Anyone know how exactly ANet quantifies server populations?  Some links here seem to imply they are fudging the numbers, but I can't be sure. :mellow:

https://forum-en.gui...e-very-high-pop
https://dviw3bl0enby..._2_is_dying.jpg

#2 davadude

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:23 AM

A developer denying that they're messing with numbers, and a community member making a pointless gem store conspiracy is an implication?  You guys must be really desperate.

Simply look at the European servers right now.  Three are on Medium, one is on low.  The United States will obviously be "fuller," as the US server must support 4 continents, whereas the European servers only support one.
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#3 Cube

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:26 AM

I don't know but I'd like to, I wanna get on a new server that's more populated.

#4 RandolfRa

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 03:19 PM

Perhaps this number doesn't represent the active player base of a server. Some servers are definitely way too dead to deserve the "very high" tag.

#5 Konzacelt

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 04:54 PM

View Postdavadude, on 02 February 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

A developer denying that they're messing with numbers, and a community member making a pointless gem store conspiracy is an implication?  You guys must be really desperate.

Simply look at the European servers right now.  Three are on Medium, one is on low.  The United States will obviously be "fuller," as the US server must support 4 continents, whereas the European servers only support one.

Well I was asking because I didn't know dude.  But thanks for the part about the US servers supporting more, I didn't know that.

#6 El Duderino

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 05:11 PM

The devs stated long ago that the fullness of a server is based on number of accounts registered to that server and nothing else. Nothing about active players has ever been confirmed, in fact is had been denied by ANet itself.

#7 Konzacelt

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 05:40 PM

So if you're new to the game, how do you tell which servers are actually full of active players and which are not?

#8 Gyre

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 06:48 PM

View Postdavadude, on 02 February 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

A developer denying that they're messing with numbers

It is simply inconceivable that a company interested in making money would use a mechanism with no transparency to actually make money in a predatory fashion...of course.

#9 Datenshi92

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 06:56 PM

Fuller servers attract more people, I'm european and I've been in the NA servers since the beginning simply because I know these will have a ton more people than the servers matching my timezone... and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only rationalizing like this.

Edited by Datenshi92, 02 February 2014 - 06:56 PM.


#10 davadude

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:27 PM

View PostGyre, on 02 February 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

It is simply inconceivable that a company interested in making money would use a mechanism with no transparency to actually make money in a predatory fashion...of course.

Because I was totally implying that it was impossible, right?  

Just like how if they were found to indeed be manipulating these numbers they'd be prohibited from selling in the European Union.  Just like how they must report these sales to numerous nations around the world in order to maintain fairness and honesty, and where if they were found to be truly manipulating numbers they'd be investigated and slaughtered by (at the minimal) the gaming media?

Try again.

View PostKonzacelt, on 02 February 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

Well I was asking because I didn't know dude.  But thanks for the part about the US servers supporting more, I didn't know that.

Sorry about the somewhat annoyed response, it was mainly aimed at the post you linked (and, for the record, the countless gemstore conspiracies), not at you.  In terms of the US servers, this is something not many people are aware of.  I'm still amazed that they decided to attach Asia AND Africa to the American servers, but it explains why the balance is always so off.  Check it for yourself some time, when choosing the "switch server" button, change the little box in the top-right of the window to "Europe."
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#11 Gyre

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:40 PM

We are talking about American servers, not European.  I am aware of no such regulation here that says they can't manipulate numbers in such a fashion.  How could you even know?  We do not enjoy the consumer protections you do in the EU which apparently includes among other things the ability to get a refund for any reason or no reason at all.  I think the main difference between you and I based on post history is that I believe nothing they say and am delightfully surprised when they are verfiably honest.  This cannot be verified and is deserving of what should be healthy skepticism.

#12 Konzacelt

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:42 PM

View Postdavadude, on 02 February 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Sorry about the somewhat annoyed response, it was mainly aimed at the post you linked (and, for the record, the countless gemstore conspiracies), not at you.  In terms of the US servers, this is something not many people are aware of.  I'm still amazed that they decided to attach Asia AND Africa to the American servers, but it explains why the balance is always so off.  Check it for yourself some time, when choosing the "switch server" button, change the little box in the top-right of the window to "Europe."

Hmm, perhaps the Asian inclusion was supposed to be a temporary thing until they released there, I dunno.  The African thing makes no sense though.  If they had to attach Africa to something, why not Europe?  Seems like it would make more sense.

#13 davadude

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:53 PM

View PostGyre, on 02 February 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

We are talking about American servers, not European.  I am aware of no such regulation here that says they can't manipulate numbers in such a fashion.  How could you even know?  We do not enjoy the consumer protections you do in the EU which apparently includes among other things the ability to get a refund for any reason or no reason at all.

A European player can get on the American servers and vice-versa, therefore making it their issue and forcing them to send the data.  They must report all the data per fiscal season or year.

View PostKonzacelt, on 02 February 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

Hmm, perhaps the Asian inclusion was supposed to be a temporary thing until they released there, I dunno.  The African thing makes no sense though.  If they had to attach Africa to something, why not Europe?  Seems like it would make more sense.

I believe it is the EU's requirements to show total price including taxes for gem store sales, along with certain religious restrictions imposed in certain countries that conflict with regulations in Europe.
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#14 Beyond Freedom

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:52 PM

View PostGyre, on 02 February 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

We do not enjoy the consumer protections you do in the EU which apparently includes among other things the ability to get a refund for any reason or no reason at all.

Actually the reason has to be something valid like "not fit for purpose", like say for instance it was advertised as having feature X but when it turned up on the doorstep it didn't. I think Steam fall foul of this in the EU a lot since they have a blanket policy of no refunds even if the game is not actually playable on your system, which is the primary requirement of a contract to buy a video game.

#15 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 03:07 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 02 February 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

So if you're new to the game, how do you tell which servers are actually full of active players and which are not?
Come  to the forums. If it's roulette pray you don't pick Devona's Rest.

#16 Konzacelt

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 03:17 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 03 February 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

Come  to the forums. If it's roulette pray you don't pick Devona's Rest.

Hehe.  But seriously, why bother even having that in-game server population chart if it's not reflective of actual server numbers and you need to sift through the forums to find a good one?  God knows these sites can be daunting, if not outright unfriendly, to a new player.  Why should we be doing ANet's work for them?

Edited by Konzacelt, 03 February 2014 - 03:28 PM.


#17 Feathermoore

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 03:26 PM

Errr, as far as I can tell this wouldn't fall under any regulation even in the EU. They aren't reporting a number, they are reporting a word that does not have a standard definition. They can declare an internal value for each of these words. For example, they would be perfectly within their rights to define "very high" as 100 people if they wanted to. They wouldn't have to tell you what the word means either. They have to report sales data, but this isn't sales data. It is like companies using the word "green" on their products. There is no industry definition of the word, so nothing regulates the use.

There is no need to "fudge numbers" since there aren't any numbers involved here. Sure there is monetary benefit to doing this, but I would think it would be minimal. Swapping to a high pop server costs more, but it also serves as a barrier to swapping. Without set data, that I doubt Anet even has since it would require them to constantly modify the pop status in a test method, there is no way to really say if the barrier offsets the increased average price. I might server swap at $10 but I wouldn't at $20 for example (random numbers).

If Anet does it, everyone does it. I just don't really see it as being worth it.

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#18 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 03:47 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 03 February 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hehe.  But seriously, why bother even having that in-game server population chart if it's not reflective of actual server numbers and you need to sift through the forums to find a good one?  God knows these sites can be daunting, if not outright unfriendly, to a new player.  Why should we be doing ANet's work for them?
You ask a good question.

Insofar as I can tell they just don't want to invest the resources to do so. It does make sense and also does not; accurate reporting will lead to WvWvW problems since some people will specifically go to DR and others will head straight to Blackgate for no other reason than population; on the other hand the consumer ( player ) can't make an accurate decision. It's a conundrum and I think it works in the overall best to keep it a secret for balance reasons but whenever DR goes to WvWvW they get crushed almost all the time because they have no manpower.

I think if W3 was somehow more localized or manipulated so you sort of chose a color rather than chose a server to represent you'd be a bit better off. Reminds me of the system in AC:Verdict Day; there are thousands of guilds but you just choose a color to fight for, well a corporation, but you get the idea.

#19 Konzacelt

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:28 PM

gw2guru

That's a core problem with W3 design then.  Tbh, I can't think of a solution besides lowering the W3 maps population caps and forcing players to move servers out of sheer agony from queue times.  But that's a bad solution.  If there is no way to bring about W3 server parity in terms of numbers besides actually forcing players to move, then they might as well start giving more accurate numbers.  After awhile in-game, every newbie figures out which servers are stacked and which aren't anyway.

It just strikes me as a somewhat heavy-handed tactic(among other things) by ANet to basically keep us in the dark "for our own good" or whatever.  Especially for something that can have a rather large impact on PvE enjoyability for a new player.

Edited by Konzacelt, 03 February 2014 - 05:29 PM.


#20 Gyre

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:14 PM

Server population is an issue near and dear to my heart because of the plague of guests.  As a brand new player to the game if you did land on one of these falsely high servers and found it dead your options are:  transfer or guest.  Guess which one most people are going to pick if they know the mechanism exists.  I'm not even angry with the guesters for doing it I want to play with other human beings too, it's the point of an MMO.  Anet is creating a barrier of entry that at the very least makes them extra money but at its worst exacerbates the already huge issue with overflows/guesting.  If it benefits them financially and there aren't enough complaints from players (I have made several) there is probably no incentive for them to do anything aside from acknowledge it.

#21 raspberry jam

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:36 PM

ANet says all servers are full or nearly full because it makes it seem as if GW2 is popular. Being popular is more important for an MMO than for a high school kid. But like https://dviw3bl0enby..._2_is_dying.jpg (taken from the OP) implies, the calculation is based on your pick of home server, not whether you have played at all since a week after release.

It has nothing directly to do with the gems cost for switching, even though I guess that's a welcome benefit for ANet.

#22 nerfandderf

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 09:50 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 03 February 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

Come  to the forums. If it's roulette pray you don't pick Devona's Rest.

You cant that is the problem. Usually what happens if someone does make the mistake there is a forum post like-
New to the game where is everyone?
Then they are told only a few servers are really viable and to transfer.
That usually doesnt go well because they ask why wasnt I told ect.

Then they delete all toons and transfer the account and start over again on chosen server.
Some just quit and ask for a refund some keep truckin.

The status means nothing and has nothing to do with concurrency or anything else - just the # of accounts on the server.

#23 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:44 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 03 February 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

gw2guru

That's a core problem with W3 design then.  Tbh, I can't think of a solution besides lowering the W3 maps population caps and forcing players to move servers out of sheer agony from queue times.  But that's a bad solution.  If there is no way to bring about W3 server parity in terms of numbers besides actually forcing players to move, then they might as well start giving more accurate numbers.  After awhile in-game, every newbie figures out which servers are stacked and which aren't anyway.

It just strikes me as a somewhat heavy-handed tactic(among other things) by ANet to basically keep us in the dark "for our own good" or whatever.  Especially for something that can have a rather large impact on PvE enjoyability for a new player.

The question is simply "Who joins the losing team on purpose?"; I'm not a fan of the entire system myself. It has more flaws than people bring up but then again the fact that people don't bring them up may be better for them.

#24 Konzacelt

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 12:39 AM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 06 February 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

The question is simply "Who joins the losing team on purpose?"

...which is a direct result of map population caps, server population, and quite frankly the scoring itself...it rewards high numbers more than anything else.  But masking the actual server population numbers isn't the answer, it just pisses people off who think they are joining a server who is on equal footing with another when that's most likely not true.

I guarantee if some competitive smaller guilds knew the actual numbers, and if they possibly revamped the scoring, they transfer to lower tiers.  Especially if they could make a deal with other "enemy" servers to do the same.




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