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CGDP-Building content for the game

game development community fan art 3d art 2d art development art implementation project

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#1 Loshirai

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 09:32 AM

Hi. I have an ideea, of users creating content that could be implemented in Guild Wars 2. I oppened a topic here:
https://forum-en.gui...er-Made-content

    What do you think? Would this idea be viable? If you are a fan of the game, and have development power, would you participate?

#2 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:03 PM

I don't think it's a good idea. It breeds contention between people for no good reason while also playing as mildly unethical on their part because they are taking ideas that they are not giving any sort of payout for meaning they can spend less on dev costs.

#3 Loshirai

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 07:32 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 05 February 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

I don't think it's a good idea. It breeds contention between people for no good reason while also playing as mildly unethical on their part because they are taking ideas that they are not giving any sort of payout for meaning they can spend less on dev costs.

In that case, after showing the large concept, the refference maker could ask small sums of in-game gold, so that it could be paid with something. In the Guild Wars 2 official forums, in the code of conduct, it is stated that everything you post on forum gets in the property of Arena.Net . A player could not take someone's work (Contribution) , and use it for commercial purpose, because all the posted artworks get automaticly to the Arena.Net, which do not permit it. So it would be fair.
There were many projects made with collaborative community support. I give here for example The Elder Scrolls series big mods. Some made mods 4 times the Skyrim size. They could not get revenue from the mods, however they made them. Even more, to play the mods, it is expected to buy the base game, so, indirrectly, they have raised the popularity of the games, and with popularity comes profit for the developpers.  I think there are people that would like to show their support for their favourite game by creating content, without getting anything.
  In this case, I don't think that this project would breed contention, for no good reason. It would breed contention for constructive, non-profit purposes, that would help in the Guild Wars 2 evolution.

#4 Kymeric

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 08:25 PM

I just started playing Skyrim this fall.  It's my first Elder Scrolls experience.  The modding is insane.  I am amazed at how much effort brilliant fans have invested to improve this game.  Because of it, I can play a made-for-console game that actually looks and plays like a PC game.  Fans came up with a better UI, better housing, better dragon riding, better texturing, better lighting, better character models.  There is even a team of roughly 70 modders currently working on porting the entire game of Morrowind into Skyrim so people can play Morrowind as if it was made 2 years ago instead of 12.

GW2 has convinced me that the only way MMORPGs will break out of all the things holding them back is by figuring out how to tap this kind of crowd-sourced creativity.  Almost everything I dislike about the traditional MMORPG model seems to have its roots in the problem of how to keep people playing content as needed for a studio to keep putting it out.  No thirty or even three hundred person company can keep up with the MMORPG community's insatiable desire for content, so we end up with gear grinds, RNG, reputation grinds, and every other trick they can think of to keep people repeating stuff long after it's grown dull.

The only way out of that I can see is to figure out a way to get a massive, dedicated, skilled player base creating and improving the game alongside the development team.  This would mean a shift in the core team from creators to managers of the creative crowd weeding out the weird, stupid and bad to find the gems that continually get linked into the game.

In a lot of ways, it would take MMORPGs back towards their source material of tabletop RPGs where gamemasters created content sprung from the core provided by the writers.

It looks like EQNext is trying to take a step in this direction with Landmark.  I haven't looked at it in detail enough to know if it's just player created buildings that can be pulled over to the game, or if there's more going on there, but clearly EQNext's creators are trying to tap into this kind of crowd-source world-building on some level.

As for GW2, I think you'd need to build the game with it in mind for it to be at all meaningful.  At base level, you'd need some sort of pier review process to save your staff from having to sort through junk-spam.  You'd want the player community to identify the top 10% of creations so that your staff only needed to review that to approve the 1% you'd actually want to use in-game.

It might be fun for the occasional GW2 contest, but the game and the studio aren't designed to handle that kind of input.

#5 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:39 AM

View PostLoshirai, on 05 February 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

In that case, after showing the large concept, the refference maker could ask small sums of in-game gold, so that it could be paid with something. In the Guild Wars 2 official forums, in the code of conduct, it is stated that everything you post on forum gets in the property of Arena.Net . A player could not take someone's work (Contribution) , and use it for commercial purpose, because all the posted artworks get automaticly to the Arena.Net, which do not permit it. So it would be fair.
There were many projects made with collaborative community support. I give here for example The Elder Scrolls series big mods. Some made mods 4 times the Skyrim size. They could not get revenue from the mods, however they made them. Even more, to play the mods, it is expected to buy the base game, so, indirrectly, they have raised the popularity of the games, and with popularity comes profit for the developpers.  I think there are people that would like to show their support for their favourite game by creating content, without getting anything.
  In this case, I don't think that this project would breed contention, for no good reason. It would breed contention for constructive, non-profit purposes, that would help in the Guild Wars 2 evolution.

The problem with mods and user-submitted content is that development studios are not required to present further than what is initially given. For instance Skyrim, Oblvion, and other games by Bethseda, in all honestly, completely suck in comparison to their modded versions. Whether it is the armor or the gameplay itself you'll really want to play it on PC so you can "fix" what you think is broken. Modding in MMOs is far more restrictive and because armor styles would have to be somehow handled in relation to revenue ( what you read about them gaining ownership over items posted is not equivalent to them actually being able to profit off of everything posted; there's a sharp difference ) and they are putting themselves in a state of liability if not announced as an official contest without a declared affidavit of releasing all rights and properties to the submissions.

The law is not as simple as it sounds nor is the concept of allowing players to institute literally potentially hundreds if not thousands of game-changes. Remember that when you look at Skyrim Nexus under Categories there are 4 dedicated to clothing, armor, weapons, and sets and each one is chock FULL of item remakes as well as new items and entire sets of items ranging from lingerie to the baddest of badass armors

It isn't that it is an impossibility but it would require it's own development team to make it work. ESO supposedly will allow mods according to one of their videos, or at least they are "looking into it" but only for the graphical interface..

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 06 February 2014 - 02:40 AM.


#6 Loshirai

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:53 AM

If that so, contests are the way to go. However, contests usually limit to small items, such as weapons. For bigger items, the CGDP threads would be ideal for collaborative efforts. Arena.Net might launch a contest in which you ask you to develop a city. In that case, you take a look at the current CGDP threads focusing on that topic and decide in which you could enter.
..............
     After the contest ends, if your thread/creative guild is not the winner, you could drop the project in Unity, to let the others explore what your thread made, on closer look.
     There could be a base Unity project, downloaded  by all the threads members.(CGDP base 0.x), that has similarities with the game UI (to gave a little feeling of gw 2) , but different game mechanics, that could not cause trouble with copyright.
    In that base, an useful function would be a button that when you are hovering your mouse/aim over an asset and press it, a box is oppened, that offers infos about who made that asset. That box could also show you a number, figuring in an external database. In that way, the devs could take a look as in a museum, and  pick up the asset they like best.
..........
    Eventually, for this kind of project, the most important thing is the tutorial base. If someone creates a series of tutorials that teaches players everything they need to know about 3D asset creation, the creative player base would rise,
making this possible. If not, the contests would consist only on 2D art, as they were so far. So, for 3D content, I think that the tutorials are the central thing to rise the community creative power. In practice, who would make them?

     Please read this post firstly without the text between lines, then again with it. Treat it as two different posts.

#7 Loshirai

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 06:55 PM

After some days of thinking, I went to a viable plan for the CGDP. The main purpose for the CGDP is teaching the Guild Wars 2 community how to make art, to build a stable, creative player base, that could make awesome things at the Arena.Net contests. So, have you ever wanted to make original 2D or 3D cinematics, like the ones in this game?  Have you ever wanted to learn 3D skills, that could let you build stuff out of your imagination? The Community Game Development Project is all about that. Creative players, helping creative players. You make community tutorials for others, and learn from other community tutorials. Share your knowledge, and get knowledge, all of this in the Guild Wars 2 environment. So, in the end, the community would show its true creative potential, and let everyone stunned.
    Now, I want to thank everyone participating in these threads, for helping me decide on this concept. Your help is really valuable. Hope that someday, the CGDP will be more than a concept, from which everyone could benefit.
P.S. If you search on the internet Guild Wars 2 behind the scenes, you could find interesting information about how various things were made in this game .
    Probably, somewhere in the future, I will put a base of the CGDP, if no one starts it before. Thank you again for your support and remember: you might join this project anytime, if you want.

Edited by Loshirai, 08 February 2014 - 06:57 PM.





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