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[X-Post Reddit] PSA: Dungeon-Selling May Now Be a Bannable Offense


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#1 MazingerZ

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 10:11 PM

http://www.reddit.co...nnable_offence/

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There is apparently someone from anet entering sellers parties and banning the sellers saying it is illegal and against the ToS even though we have had previous confirmation that it is perfectly fine. In my guild someone was banned when a certain dev joined his selling party and told him selling was illegal.

Then it gets worse, another friend whispers the dev asking why and was promptly banned for exploiting when he ONLY sent a message. This is an issue and a clear abuse of power.

There is an official thread on it: https://forum-en.gui...rst#post3605652

From GW2 forum thread

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Yes this is true, we had a member from the guild get banned for selling about 6 hours ago. Then Dolan msgs the supposed guy on a power trip and was banned 10 seconds later FOR MESSAGING HIM.

http://imgur.com/NiRfO6H

#freedolan

http://imgur.com/Roej12w - Same GM from Gyre's post about monitoring the wurm event

Edited by MazingerZ, 07 February 2014 - 10:12 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#2 Desild

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 10:25 PM

When ArenaNet bans someone, they always make sure it is loud and messy. It's almost like they love the drama.

#3 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 10:32 PM

I feel it is A ) funny the person banned is named dolan and B ) soon to be reversed just like most of the other ridiculous bannings.

#4 Phineas Poe

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:49 PM

So the issue is not that they sold dungeon paths, but that they exploited bugs to solo most of the dungeon and then sold slots toward the end of the path.

I don't really see the controversy here.

#5 Lordkrall

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:10 AM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 07 February 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

So the issue is not that they sold dungeon paths, but that they exploited bugs to solo most of the dungeon and then sold slots toward the end of the path.

I don't really see the controversy here.

Oh, but didn't you know?
The version ArenaNet gives is clearly completely false, and blatant lying, while the banned users version is completely correct and he haven't done anything wrong at all.

People are always fast pointing out all these "OMG ARENANET BANS PEOPLE FOR NO REASON!!!" things, but in 100% of the cases it always ends up with being proved that they did indeed ban people for something that was very much banable.

#6 Konzacelt

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:44 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 08 February 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

People are always fast pointing out all these "OMG ARENANET BANS PEOPLE FOR NO REASON!!!" things, but in 100% of the cases it always ends up with being proved that they did indeed ban people for something that was very much banable.

Good luck proving that ridiculous statement.

For one thing, it's a little over the top to ban someone for a terrain exploit.  It's ANet's fault it's there in the first place, they should have fixed the terrain bug, given the related parties a slap on the wrist, and moved on.

Secondly, it's more than a little over the top to insta-ban the guy who msg'd the dev to ask why.  That's just plain wrong.  Good grief, if they put half of the effort into developing the game as they do into policing the economy they'd have a much happier player-base.

#7 Lordkrall

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:48 AM

View PostKonzacelt, on 08 February 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

Good luck proving that ridiculous statement.

For one thing, it's a little over the top to ban someone for a terrain exploit.  It's ANet's fault it's there in the first place, they should have fixed the terrain bug, given the related parties a slap on the wrist, and moved on.

Secondly, it's more than a little over the top to insta-ban the guy who msg'd the dev to ask why.  That's just plain wrong.  Good grief, if they put half of the effort into developing the game as they do into policing the economy they'd have a much happier player-base.

Yeah, except for the fact that it is EXTREMELY clearly stated in the ToS, which every player agreed on when logging into the game, that exploiting any bug can lead to a permanent ban.

Ah, you mean that guy that never actually provided any sort of proof whatsoever that he was banned for just messaging the "dev" and asking why?
He was banned for exploiting, and then just made up some sort of silly story.

You also seem to think that the GMs are actually developing the games rather than the developers, which is quite incorrect.

#8 Echou

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:58 AM

Pfft, the nerve. Anet clearly has no idea what they're doing.

I think they'll sell dungeons in Gem Store! Yeah, keep that money flowing, Anet! P2W

#9 Desild

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:03 AM

View PostEchou, on 08 February 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

Pfft, the nerve. Anet clearly has no idea what they're doing.

I think they'll sell dungeons in Gem Store! Yeah, keep that money flowing, Anet! P2W

Bonus Mission Pack style. At least then I'd have a non-RNG alternative to earn my cosmetic skins. It would be good money spent.

As opposed to the 0€ I've spent since the initial box. Voting with my wallet sucks... My friends are all on their way to their third Legendary and I still can't get the silly precursor. If only buying gems wasn't morally adverse...

#10 Konzacelt

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:17 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 08 February 2014 - 12:48 AM, said:

Yeah, except for the fact that it is EXTREMELY clearly stated in the ToS, which every player agreed on when logging into the game, that exploiting any bug can lead to a permanent ban.

Ah, you mean that guy that never actually provided any sort of proof whatsoever that he was banned for just messaging the "dev" and asking why?
He was banned for exploiting, and then just made up some sort of silly story.

You also seem to think that the GMs are actually developing the games rather than the developers, which is quite incorrect.

It's EXTREMELY clearly stated?  Oh my goodness!  Who gives a damn if it's stated in the ToS?  Terrain glitches are all over the place, and players use them all the time.  ANet should have simply fixed the glitch and given some kind of minor punishment like a 24-hr or 3-day ban.  Perma-banning for this is out of line.

So...the dude has no proof he was banned for just messaging, yet you claim, without proof, he just made up the story.  Gotcha.

You seem to think hiring more GM's doesn't inversely affect the resources they can put into development, which is quite incorrect.

#11 Phineas Poe

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:36 AM

View PostKonzacelt, on 08 February 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

For one thing, it's a little over the top to ban someone for a terrain exploit.

I don't see the point in discussing what our opinions of the matter are. It's their policy to ban players who use exploits for profit. This is an example of a player using a terrain exploit for profit.

Suggesting that they're banning players for "selling" runs is a hysterical simplification of the situation, and clearly just another platform to falsely criticize developers enforcing the rules you've agreed to by logging into and playing their game.

Shazbawt is a pretty chill guy, and have had the opportunity of speaking with him on several occasions in game. He was a member of EG for a few days and had nothing but positive remarks toward the general community. Suggesting that he went on a power trip "just because" doesn't resonate with me.

Anyway, if you view their stance or punishment as draconian, I suppose you're more than welcome to play something else.

Edited by Phineas Poe, 08 February 2014 - 01:39 AM.


#12 Konzacelt

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:56 AM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 08 February 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

I don't see the point in discussing what our opinions of the matter are. It's their policy to ban players who use exploits for profit. This is an example of a player using a terrain exploit for profit.

Ok, then don't discuss them.

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Suggesting that they're banning players for "selling" runs is a hysterical simplification of the situation, and clearly just another platform to falsely criticize developers enforcing the rules you've agreed to by logging into and playing their game.

Rules, like laws, aren't unassailable.  This is why judicial systems exist, they decide which rules are just, which are bull****, and give out a(hopefully) wise decision accordingly.  A ToS merely gives a company the freedom to essentially act as a Judge Dredd: judge, jury, and executioner all in one...there is no checks and balance to it.  Why?  It's a private company and has the legal right to do so if we sign the dotted line.  Good companies use these powers wisely and allow players some measure of leeway for the sake of a healthy image and loyal fans.  Bad companies use these powers abusively, and perpetrate an absolutist policy of zero exceptions and zero discussions about it.  Everyone has to decide where ANet falls in those two extremes.  Obviously both of us have our opinions on it already, but simply saying the equivalent of "cuz they said so" is wrong in so many ways.

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Shazbawt is a pretty chill guy, and have had the opportunity of speaking with him on several occasions in game. He was a member of EG for a few days and had nothing but positive remarks toward the general community. Suggesting that he went on a power trip "just because" doesn't resonate with me.

Anyway, if you view their stance or punishment as draconian, I suppose you're more than welcome to play something else.

I do, and I do. :)

Edited by Konzacelt, 08 February 2014 - 01:57 AM.


#13 Phineas Poe

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 02:26 AM

View PostKonzacelt, on 08 February 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

Obviously both of us have our opinions on it already, but simply saying the equivalent of "cuz they said so" is wrong in so many ways.

Except it's not, because logging into the game is a nonverbal acceptance of their terms of service.

He agreed to their rules and their methods of punishment when those rules are broken. And they outline fairly specifically in the user agreement:

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Account Suspension and/or Termination for Cause — NCSOFT may suspend and/or delete Your Account for cause (e.g., You breach, violate, or otherwise fail to comply with each and every provision of, this agreement) as well as any other Account ID, Account Display Name, NCSOFT Message Board ID, Character ID, Team, and/or characteristics related to an Account ID. Any suspension and/or termination under this Section 3©, as well as the timing thereof, shall be conclusively determined in the sole and absolute discretion of NCSOFT. Suspension and/or termination of an Account under this provision also suspends and/or terminates (as applicable) any license granted by NCSOFT under this agreement but does not affect any other provisions of this agreement.

He knew the rules. He broke the rules. And he was punished for breaking those rules in accordance to the very terms of service he agreed to when registering his game and logging into it for the past year and a half.

There is no room for debate here.

#14 El Duderino

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 02:36 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 08 February 2014 - 12:48 AM, said:

Yeah, except for the fact that it is EXTREMELY clearly stated in the ToS, which every player agreed on when logging into the game, that exploiting any bug can lead to a permanent ban.

There are so many bugs in the game, nobody even knows if they are exploiting or not. Plus, I love how you say it is 100% always the persons faulty for being banned. I guess that explains all those reversals ANet has done on bannings in the last year. Oh yea, there have been a lot of those.

#15 El Duderino

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 02:42 AM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 08 February 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

Except it's not, because logging into the game is a nonverbal acceptance of their terms of service.

He agreed to their rules and their methods of punishment when those rules are broken. And they outline fairly specifically in the user agreement:



He knew the rules. He broke the rules. And he was punished for breaking those rules in accordance to the very terms of service he agreed to when registering his game and logging into it for the past year and a half.

There is no room for debate here.

I can't wait for you to get banned for exploiting overflows with your guild and see how you feel. ;)

#16 Feathermoore

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 02:45 AM

Official Anet response was that people are being banned for exploiting past parts of the dungeon, not for selling. Until any sort of proof of something otherwise arises this will remain closed.

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