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#1 Jentari

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 09:58 PM

I did a quick search but really didnt find anything.

My question is this:  In an game with no dedicated healer why have Healing Power?

I understand it can help boost healing but isnt it a wasted stat?

Is it possible that it is in game because someone thought that maybe a class would be able to be used as a healer, or maybe a class that has yet to be released?

Any thoughts?

#2 Phadde

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 10:43 PM

In order to do DPS, you need to be alive. If people are getting low on health, they need to sacrifice DPS and prioritize defense in order to stay alive. Thus can Healing not only prevent dead allies (big drop in DPS) or a wipe, but it makes everything smoother.

On an Elementalist i.e., you can AoE heal with your /D #5 -skill, AoE heal with Evasive Arcana, Cone heal with your D/ #2 skill, AoE heal via Combo-blasting through your Healing Rain and Geyser-skills and so on.... And you also have a ton of ways to apply Regeneration to allies which also scales with Healing Power. All of the above can be done easily and fluidly, without interrupting the flow of combat and sometimes these things are just activated as you're doing something else.

While playing as an Elementalist, even in an offensive build, you'll be able to do all of the things above, and should, wherever it's needed.


Healing Power does get very little use though. In many PvE Encounters you'll find many one-hit abilities thrown at you, which makes the stat useless. Then there has been and still are many problems with the scaling of the attribute; If I recall correctly, Builds based on the Necro Traitline called Blood Magic which focuses a lot on healing wouldn't use the stat at all, because it scaled so poorly to their healing skills & traits.

For now, the design of the PvE content doesn't leave much room for the Healing and Control mechanics

Edited by Phadde, 08 February 2014 - 11:01 PM.


#3 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 11:57 PM

Aren't you just agreeing with the OP?  You're defending healing, while he was only talking about healing power.  Maybe it can get good use on a water ele, and to be honest, I'm trying Apoth/Settlers gear on my Ranger.  But for the most part, why should people put points INTO a stat designed ONLY for healing in a game designed AGAINST the concept of a dedicated healer?  It does seem a bit of a joke.

I do have an idea to maybe fix it.  I don't know if it's viable, but maybe it's at least worth looking into.  And if it DID work out right, it might finally give ANet that elusive buff to support builds they're looking for, while leaving DPS alone.

Change healing power in boon power.

I think one of the problems with support builds is boons are pretty much universal.  If you can get a DPS build with 100% fury uptime, why would you need fury from a support build?  If you have access to protection, it's just as good as any one else's.  In fact the only boon that scales in the slightest is regeneration (with healing power ironically enough).  So change HP to boon power and have it affect most (if not all) boons (all numbers below are arbitrarily chosen and would have to be properly scaled):

Regen - keep as is.  Scales with BP same as it does now with HP.

Protection - Reduce the base damage mitigation to 25% or maybe even 10%.  BP boosts that level up to 33%, or maybe even higher in a pure support build.  Now support builds provide BETTER damage mitigation than just anyone with easy access to protection (Hammer Guardian).

Might - Reduce current power/condi dmg boost (or don't), and have BP increase that value.  Now not all mights are created equal.  Support builds with access to lots of might (or blast finishers) now RAISE group DPS, without having to be DPS builds.

Fury - Decrease crit chance to 10%, allow BP to raise it back to 20% or higher.  Now zerker builds have a harder road to 100% crit...maybe even impossible.  Support build now raise group crit and ergo group DPS.

Retaliation - Obviously BP make Ret hit for more so functions similar to Might.

Vigor - Not sure about this one, might need it leave it alone since ANet is trying to limit access to vigor.

Stability - Not sure about this one either.  Making BP increase it's duration might be nice since Stability is hard to get, and using support builds to help groups against pulls and knockbacks could be very helpful for some engagements.

Aegis - No change.  Stacking duration seems pointless as Aegis usually doesn't last long anyhow.  Stacking intensity (i.e. multiple blocks per application) could be ridiculously OP, especially for Guardians.

Swiftness - Also leave alone.  Sure you could scale the speed increase, but I think that would be a mess, especially in WvW zergs.

Again, this idea may not be viable once you crunch the numbers.  But--ideally--it does 3 things.  1) Make healing power (now boon power) not a joke of a stat. 2) Buffs the defensive boons of support builds, meaning identical boons from a zerker build do not pack the same survival punch as support boons. 3) Raise group DPS with a non-DPS build.  The trick being to scale it so it NEARLY equates the output if you sub in a pure zerker.  Why nearly?  To offset the boost to the defensive survivable boons.  Limiting the edge that pure zerker groups have on kill speed but not eliminate it entirely.

#4 Phadde

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 12:22 AM

View PostReason on Cooldown, on 08 February 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

Aren't you just agreeing with the OP?  You're defending healing, while he was only talking about healing power.  Maybe it can get good use on a water ele, and to be honest, I'm trying Apoth/Settlers gear on my Ranger.  But for the most part, why should people put points INTO a stat designed ONLY for healing in a game designed AGAINST the concept of a dedicated healer?  It does seem a bit of a joke.

I do have an idea to maybe fix it.  I don't know if it's viable, but maybe it's at least worth looking into.  And if it DID work out right, it might finally give ANet that elusive buff to support builds they're looking for, while leaving DPS alone.

Change healing power in boon power.


The main problem remains that the PvE Encounters doesn't make healing enough of a desired mechanic. The "Trinity" that ANet marketed it as was supposed to be the base combat mechanics: Damage, Support and Control. But Damage is the only one that the PvE content is designed around. (It's not even difficult to implement the two remaining mechanics in a meaningful way. I.e. If some mobs would have the ability to heal or disable after a fair animation, control could easily be made very vital. And if attrition was the focus sometimes, healing could be a necessary key mechanic).

And not having a dedicated healer doesn't make a stat that purely increases healing unnecessary.

Edited by Phadde, 09 February 2014 - 12:26 AM.


#5 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:01 AM

View PostJentari, on 08 February 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

I did a quick search but really didnt find anything.

My question is this:  In an game with no dedicated healer why have Healing Power?

I understand it can help boost healing but isnt it a wasted stat?

Is it possible that it is in game because someone thought that maybe a class would be able to be used as a healer, or maybe a class that has yet to be released?

Any thoughts?

Healing over Time is more effective than many people give it credit for. If one only has 18,000 HP being able to regain 1,000 of it every 5 seconds in active combat without paying it mind is a boon. It also negates low-damage moves altogether and persistent effects countering things like low stacks of bleed or poison. It's effectiveness is only useful in HoTs though sadly.

#6 Desild

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:46 AM

Wait what? I like my healing power! It allows me to make more mistakes. Specially when four-manning Lupicus. Those green blobs he throws? Deadly. And my computer can't stand split-second reflexes.

#7 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:27 AM

View PostPhadde, on 09 February 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

And not having a dedicated healer doesn't make a stat that purely increases healing unnecessary.

No, but you have to sacrifice so much to obtain it, then is it really worth it without a dedicated healing role?

I'm not saying nobody would.  I already admitted my Ranger has it.  It's like the old magic find gear sets.  Has a highly specialized role at the cost of more effective stats.  That's why I introduced my idea of boon power, to make it a more versatile stat.

#8 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:48 AM

View PostReason on Cooldown, on 09 February 2014 - 02:27 AM, said:

No, but you have to sacrifice so much to obtain it, then is it really worth it without a dedicated healing role?

I'm not saying nobody would.  I already admitted my Ranger has it.  It's like the old magic find gear sets.  Has a highly specialized role at the cost of more effective stats.  That's why I introduced my idea of boon power, to make it a more versatile stat.

The problem with Healing is people think too small with it. Since HoTs can come from multiple sources having a base heal rate of 500 is not anywhere near difficult without pouring an insane amount into Healing Power.

Let's take a defensive Engineer, one I use from time to time when I play with more inexperienced people:

Backpack Regenerator: 117 + HP*.05

Healing Turret: 130 + 12.5*HP

Elixer-Infused Bombs: 145 + HP*.15

Taking the constants alone I regenerate 392 HP in a the turret field. My party gains 275 of that within a 360 degree radius if I extend the bomb range, which I would.

This build comes with 300 healing power so filling in the above blanks by combining them we are granted 12.5 + 5 + 15% or a total of 32.5% so capitalizing on that I am granted an additional 97 across the board with 82 of it going to my teammates since the can only take 27.5% of it. To alleviate the losses in Power first 10% of my HP goes strait to power and then I just take Power Armor converting 7% of my toughness to power as well so that the loss is minimalized. I forget the exact number, I believe it's close to 80, so a loss of 20 total power in this build since I take 20 in the Explosives tree.

So, when added up just for me alone I am granted 489 easily maintainable, permanent HoT and my party within range is granted 357. My armor can stay Berserker's, trinkets the same, no changes to sigils or anything else for that matter. Just the Trait line alone.

This works over well with the Guardian and I believe the Ranger due to their sourcing; I do know that it doesn't work over well with all classes so I am not saying it's universal by any means or stretch but the concept of a high powered, low impact healing factor is not "far-fetched" and does not require innate sacrifice.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 09 February 2014 - 02:49 AM.


#9 lalangamena

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 06:15 AM

healing power is an insult to players who invest in it as it scales so poorly, you have to max it in order for it to be a little effective, and while it can be somewhat effective at capped area ( ~1500 with food and 25 life stacks), you gimp yourself in damage and everything else. making the equation of kill the enemy before it kills you uneven and not in your favor.

I agree with that something must be done with healing power, either

1) merge healing power and boon duration in one single stat, or
2) make healing power a passive counter to conditions just like toughness is passive counter to direct damage.
3) or allow all healing skills to be able to crit from perception rate.

#10 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 08:46 AM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 09 February 2014 - 02:48 AM, said:

... when I play with more inexperienced people ...

Those words are the start of every shitty post: we shouldn't be judging what's good and what's bad based on playing with really poor players.

#11 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 10:51 AM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 09 February 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Those words are the start of every shitty post: we shouldn't be judging what's good and what's bad based on playing with really poor players.
"Inexperienced" does not mean "Bad", it means "New", such as a dungeon run for guildies who have never run it before. Many of them do go down. It happens. I'm prepared.

It's a rather ironic assumption; you state that the words are a start of a "Shitty post" but you yourself are passing somewhat extreme judgments. I guess life is like that though.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 09 February 2014 - 10:52 AM.


#12 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 11:20 AM

View Postlalangamena, on 09 February 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

healing power is an insult to players who invest in it as it scales so poorly, you have to max it in order for it to be a little effective, and while it can be somewhat effective at capped area ( ~1500 with food and 25 life stacks), you gimp yourself in damage and everything else. making the equation of kill the enemy before it kills you uneven and not in your favor.

I agree with that something must be done with healing power, either

1) merge healing power and boon duration in one single stat, or
2) make healing power a passive counter to conditions just like toughness is passive counter to direct damage.
3) or allow all healing skills to be able to crit from perception rate.
After testing I realized that the key to utilizing healing power is to stack the sources rather than stack the numbers and when you think about it the design makes a lot of sense. In many other games "Spirit", "Compassion", or whatever is the predominant trait for healing generally works around single or dual presence capabilities so naturally the numbers have to be relatively high to be effective however in this game that is untrue and detrimental to gameplay not because HoTs don't matter but because all classes have at least one form of group heal and generally those do somehow stack; for instance rejuvination on top of regeneration on top of your HoT on top of your food if you should take it on top of your runes if you're Dolyak on top of your Sigil of Vampirism on top of your Sigil of Renewal.

When it dawned on me that the investment itself doesn't come from healing power but instead from team methodology I had to rub my chin for a moment. The above listed, not even all sources of healing since a few HoTs spill over and are not themselves categorized against one another ( such as Battle Presence still working on a Warrior with their signet ) it became explicitly clear that the poor scaling was actually a by-product of proper planning. Can you imagine what would occur if those abilities had mid 20 coefficients? With a base of 130 for regeneration if you took even 20 percent of your HP you would gain 60 extra HoT with the trait line alone, which does not sound like a lot, but because it is not an isolated source two or three similar sources will produce probably around 600~800 HP a second and if you break a 1,000 HP a second mark due to the real-time nature of the game and how aggro isn't solidified you'll likely never die; you would just have to not get hit for approximately 10s which is surprisingly easy. Furthermore you wouldn't have to stack an extreme amount of anything to be effective so 1,000 HP is easily passed with far fewer effects.

Also healing power is not for people who are using non-HoT effects. All of the bases for regular healing skills ( burst? ) are very high; you do not need the extra 1,000 with a base of 5 or 6; if you do then you're being either paranoid or reckless. I can also see why that was instituted. The game isn't supposed to have a single dedicated healer but still needed a recovery system so the basic idea was to give all players one while preventing players from walking around like demi-gods outside of group play. HP matters the most in conditions where you are with other people but is powerful enough on it's own. For instance if Claw of Jormag's DoT hits you BP at base + regeneration at base ( 84 + 130 ) will negate 53.5% of the natural 400 you are afflicted with presuming it's only a single stack ( such as from his roar ) and capitalizing on this it also heals continuously per second while most enemies attack in intervals greater than a second so in order to calculate your effective HoT you must take into account how often an enemy attacks.

For instance a boss may attack once ever 3 seconds; it doesn't seem like a long time but if you have a healing rate of 200 a second you gain 600 HP during the downtime whether or not you were hit by a major or minor attack. The key complaint in the game comes from HoTs not bringing you back from near death, a mechanic that was avoided because if it was not people would abuse it; in other games a dedicated healer cast a boon or a buff and while they have to watch the screen for spikes generally small hits were negated altogether. This comes as a disadvantage when you give everyone a group heal because then you've got those who are clever enough to just stack them forever with full-knowledge that if they take their HoT ( I think most if not all classes have an HoT tactic in some form whether it be trait, signet, or inherent ability ) and stack it with group HoTs for the win since their bases are 100 or more and there are 3 people in a party who typically have at least one, generally 2 who can stack them, and if coordinated this can easily go higher.

-------------------------



TL;DR: Healing Power isn't broken. It's just not for single-stack, single-person survival.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 09 February 2014 - 11:22 AM.


#13 Cube

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 11:43 AM

View PostDesild, on 09 February 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

Wait what? I like my healing power! It allows me to make more mistakes. Specially when four-manning Lupicus. Those green blobs he throws? Deadly. And my computer can't stand split-second reflexes.

I've the same thing, I love Healing Power. I realize it's not at the best of it's ability, but I feel that's cause they wanted to add it to be useful but then they were like: Oh yeah, we're reinventing the wheel here and making super awesome no monk's needed stuff so maybe we shall just nerf it so it's pretty useless unless you invest everything you have in it and sacrifice DPS. Derp.

My Guardian is a cleric and I don't want to change that, mainly because without healing power guardians feel too much like everything else. If it's boons you want you can just take a mesmer, they got feedback for projectiles as well and at least they got useful elite skills.

When you're playing solo being a cleric sucks major @ss but if you use it right and you're a skilled played it can be really successful in dungeons etc. I usually always gotta tank, and although toughness is broken it's much better that the enemies try to kill me than my epicly squishy friends. And from my experience, in a normal pug, having 4 warriors and me on cleric is really fast. I've many times gone onto my warrior or something else and literary crap like burning or damage kills us, so I see my guardian as more of a character that stacks might when it can, heals and protects. But I'm gonna go try the whole zerker crap guardian soon anyway although nobody cares I play ceric since I always keep everyone up.

To OP: I don't know why they added it because it is indeed kind of useless.

#14 Phadde

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 12:08 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 09 February 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Those words are the start of every shitty post: we shouldn't be judging what's good and what's bad based on playing with really poor players.

... No, I disagree. I play a FT/EG engineer, and I'm really loving it! You're doing rather good damage, but on top of all, you can offer great support. If I play in Fractals with my Guild with people I know are really good, my build is not very effective, because the others don't need my "defensive support". The group would be much better off if I played on another character, or more to the point: if I used a boring Grenade-build. However, if I play with a PUG or with guildies who I know are rather mediocre I find my Engineer being very, very useful!

#15 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 12:24 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 09 February 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

"Inexperienced" does not mean "Bad", it means "New", such as a dungeon run for guildies who have never run it before. Many of them do go down. It happens. I'm prepared.

It's a rather ironic assumption; you state that the words are a start of a "Shitty post" but you yourself are passing somewhat extreme judgments. I guess life is like that though.

Good players can be new or old. Bad players can be new or old.
But you die because you are bad.

#16 lalangamena

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:38 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 09 February 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:



TL;DR: Healing Power isn't broken. It's just not for single-stack, single-person survival.

well, if you take warrior as an example, with healing signet, adrenal health, mango pie , 6 dolyak runes and  regeneration from banner (or external boon )yes , then this warrior get enough healing. without seriously gimping his damage (15 points in defense is not that demanding)

same can be told on guardian  who also have several healing sources: virtue, regen, dodge heal, combined with food and runes , can be very strong.

but other classes lack the ability to stack these sources, or if they do stack them they gimp themselves.

this just proves that warriors are broken, not that healing power is good ( this post is NOT about warriors, it is just an example).
also lets check how healing power affect  the warrior in the example:
mango pie, dolyak runes, = static healing not affected by healing power.
adrenal health= affected by rage and not by healing power.
healing signet passive effect, currently heals 392 HP flat with no healing power scaling.
regeneration boon: 0.125 HP coefficient with 130 HP base (1000 healing power will give 255 regen per second)
So, out of 5 healing sources only one affected by 1/8 of healing power scaling.
the same warrior will have the margins of the same regeneration if he wears berzerkers or full  cleric armor.

I rest my case.

#17 rendolphe

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:10 PM

I'm playing almost full healing power on my guardian. Healing power make sense on AoE healing skill. If you spec full Healing and you solo roam, your healing power will not overcome the enemy dps and you will die, but if you are in a group of 5 and all your healing abilities are boosted with your healing power, now you become useful for your party.

I'll post down here few video of our roaming group with 2 guardian shout heal. We this composition, we tried to bring the trinity into GW2 and I'll must say it's successful. The healing based on AoE and positioning of the squad, but very effective on a drilled group.





#18 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 03:09 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 09 February 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

Good players can be new or old. Bad players can be new or old.
But you die because you are bad.
Which has nothing to do with being prepared. Precautions are not equivalent to Reactions.

And they say I'm stubborn. :lol:

#19 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 03:17 PM

View Postlalangamena, on 09 February 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

well, if you take warrior as an example, with healing signet, adrenal health, mango pie , 6 dolyak runes and  regeneration from banner (or external boon )yes , then this warrior get enough healing. without seriously gimping his damage (15 points in defense is not that demanding)

same can be told on guardian  who also have several healing sources: virtue, regen, dodge heal, combined with food and runes , can be very strong.

but other classes lack the ability to stack these sources, or if they do stack them they gimp themselves.

this just proves that warriors are broken, not that healing power is good ( this post is NOT about warriors, it is just an example).
also lets check how healing power affect  the warrior in the example:
mango pie, dolyak runes, = static healing not affected by healing power.
adrenal health= affected by rage and not by healing power.
healing signet passive effect, currently heals 392 HP flat with no healing power scaling.
regeneration boon: 0.125 HP coefficient with 130 HP base (1000 healing power will give 255 regen per second)
So, out of 5 healing sources only one affected by 1/8 of healing power scaling.
the same warrior will have the margins of the same regeneration if he wears berzerkers or full  cleric armor.

I rest my case.
I've decided that my answers and explanations may actually be too long and thorough causing people to become lost so I will shorten this on the topic:

Of your sources listed there is only one inherent to the Warrior. When strung out most classes contain about the same amount of inherent healing capability. Warriors just have it in one large chunk instead of being broken down.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 09 February 2014 - 04:10 PM.


#20 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:31 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 09 February 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Which has nothing to do with being prepared. Precautions are not equivalent to Reactions.

And they say I'm stubborn. :lol:

And you are sacrificing efficiency to gain this preparedness: not just in your build, but also in the skill level of your team mates. If you played with better people, you wouldn't need to sacrifice efficiency.

#21 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:59 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 09 February 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

And you are sacrificing efficiency to gain this preparedness: not just in your build, but also in the skill level of your team mates. If you played with better people, you wouldn't need to sacrifice efficiency.
As explained I lose a total of 20 power. Tell me where my major crippling point is?

Also, I know this may be far-fetched, but I play the game for fun and camaraderie not to prove that other people are dragging me down. If I wished to capitalize on being with the best I would transfer away from my home world, leave my guild, and probably leave my friends as well.

What, however, is the point of that?

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 09 February 2014 - 05:01 PM.


#22 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:30 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 09 February 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

As explained I lose a total of 20 power. Tell me where my major crippling point is?

Also, I know this may be far-fetched, but I play the game for fun and camaraderie not to prove that other people are dragging me down. If I wished to capitalize on being with the best I would transfer away from my home world, leave my guild, and probably leave my friends as well.

What, however, is the point of that?

I run sub-par builds all the time. Either because I am super lazy (my guardian runs 4 signets (and ele and warrior and mesmer and necro also - heck: if I can stick a signet in there I will), doesn't use the elite because its cooldown is way too long, uses the trait that makes Resolve heal for more so that I don't even need to use the healing skill, ...) or for other reasons (my ranger uses sword/dagger because I like the look of the combo).
And yet, I still win.

What I don't do, is try to convince myself, or others, that those builds are actually good.

Edited by Baron von Scrufflebutt, 09 February 2014 - 05:30 PM.


#23 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:38 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 09 February 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

I run sub-par builds all the time. Either because I am super lazy (my guardian runs 4 signets (and ele and warrior and mesmer and necro also - heck: if I can stick a signet in there I will), doesn't use the elite because its cooldown is way too long, uses the trait that makes Resolve heal for more so that I don't even need to use the healing skill, ...) or for other reasons (my ranger uses sword/dagger because I like the look of the combo).
And yet, I still win.

What I don't do, is try to convince myself, or others, that those builds are actually good.
I didn't ask about your poor habits; I asked you to tell me how my build is "weak" or "poor". What makes it "not good?" Explain what makes it genuinely inefficient.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 09 February 2014 - 05:38 PM.


#24 Konzacelt

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 06:22 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 09 February 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

I didn't ask about your poor habits; I asked you to tell me how my build is "weak" or "poor". What makes it "not good?" Explain what makes it genuinely inefficient.

I believe his point was that the game doesn't really punish him for being lazy.  Poor habits?  Perhaps yes, but if the game encourages that, why bother with trying to maximize efficiency?

#25 lalangamena

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 06:25 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 09 February 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Of your sources listed there is only one inherent to the Warrior. When strung out most classes contain about the same amount of inherent healing capability. Warriors just have it in one large chunk instead of being broken down.
YES!
exactly
and the amount of inherent healing capability is almost not affected by healing power at all!

guardians and elementalists have some use of high healing power, because they have more than one source of group heal that scales with HP ( symbols , guard dodges, ele dodges in water, healing ripple etc) but the rest of the classes, whether it  necro siphons, thief shadow rejuvination, engy healing bombs, mesmer restorative illusions or ranger Spirit of nature they all either don't scale with healing power or scale very very little , so in order to use them you don't have to invest anything...

#26 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 07:14 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 09 February 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

I believe his point was that the game doesn't really punish him for being lazy.  Poor habits?  Perhaps yes, but if the game encourages that, why bother with trying to maximize efficiency?
The same reason we bother to play the game: We want to.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 09 February 2014 - 07:15 PM.


#27 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 07:23 PM

View Postlalangamena, on 09 February 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

YES!
exactly
and the amount of inherent healing capability is almost not affected by healing power at all!

guardians and elementalists have some use of high healing power, because they have more than one source of group heal that scales with HP ( symbols , guard dodges, ele dodges in water, healing ripple etc) but the rest of the classes, whether it  necro siphons, thief shadow rejuvination, engy healing bombs, mesmer restorative illusions or ranger Spirit of nature they all either don't scale with healing power or scale very very little , so in order to use them you don't have to invest anything...
If one adds the coefficients together the number is no so small. It is true that 5-6% are "nothing" however because of the combining nature of the system some classes make +30% of their HP useful. Also the game is geared towards preventing a healer, not preventing healing, and I came to realize this because of your example; a Warrior can run around buff and vibrant but can't pass that heal on while the bases for skills that do pass on tend to be lower with the exception being E-I Bombs. It makes sense.

The core concept is that HP should be effective for every presence it has much like all the other stats are ( though Condition Damage is questionable imo ) however if it were you would either have very low bases ( which is bad ) or very high healing ( which is really bad for a game where it's hard enough to get yourself killed ).

#28 Konzacelt

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 07:25 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 09 February 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

The same reason we bother to play the game: We want to.

I hate to be the one to tell you this dude, but most players don't play GW2 because they are trying to "beat the numbers", or theorycraft a winning strategy.  The game itself just isn't that deep or interesting.  Most GW2 players play it because it's gorgeous, it's fun to RP here, they have friends to hang with here, and there are not many MMO alternatives atm.

#29 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 07:33 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 09 February 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

I didn't ask about your poor habits; I asked you to tell me how my build is "weak" or "poor". What makes it "not good?" Explain what makes it genuinely inefficient.

Well, we could simply end this by saying that you have less power than you could normally have had. But, that's not the whole picture, is it? I mean, by wasting 30 points on Inventions, you are also losing access to better traits, more precision, crit damage, ...
Most importantly though, if you are playing with people that would need to be carried, I question how that will affect the team's ability to dish out as much damage as possible.

As for bringing up my playing habits, it was a response to:

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 09 February 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

Also, I know this may be far-fetched, but I play the game for fun and camaraderie not to prove that other people are dragging me down. If I wished to capitalize on being with the best I would transfer away from my home world, leave my guild, and probably leave my friends as well.

What, however, is the point of that?

What do your friends or "fun" have to do with the efficiency of a build?
As I said, it absolutely makes sense to play that way, and I try to play that way, but when I play that way I don't have the illusion that I am going for efficiency. And neither should you.

#30 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 07:42 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 09 February 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

Well, we could simply end this by saying that you have less power than you could normally have had. But, that's not the whole picture, is it? I mean, by wasting 30 points on Inventions, you are also losing access to better traits, more precision, crit damage, ...
Most importantly though, if you are playing with people that would need to be carried, I question how that will affect the team's ability to dish out as much damage as possible.
Does that mean that the Guardian meta cores is also poor because it gives up power, precision, and critical damage? Or is there some reason that it's not a waste? Is DPS really the only thing that makes a build efficient?




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