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Whaaaat? No karma? Heeeere

karma nerf dungeon we

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#1 Minion

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:31 PM

Since the dissolution of karma in dungeons, there are now only three places in which to seriously gain karma:

1. Tequatl
2. lower-level fractals (I think 10 levels below your personal reward yields max karma)
3. WvW

It seems incredibly unfair and inconsistent of Anet to pigeonhole players wishing to craft legendaries, and other karmic required goods, into these three events. No other world event yields the insane karma rewards as Tequatl. Most world events offer 500 karma tops, with all the buffs, while Tequatl gives closer to 15-20k.

Fractals is essentially a glorified dungeon chain, yet earning 9k-15k karma is justified? Why not balance this out for daily dungeons too?

By the way, check your Birthday Boosters, there's something fishy about them. Remember, you only get them once every 365 character days.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Should karma really be this exclusive?

Edited by Minion, 17 February 2014 - 02:33 PM.


#2 Mordakai

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:46 PM

So, has anybody tested to see if you get bonus Karma from the birthday boosters?

#3 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:29 PM

If you're crafting a legendary you will receive plenty of Karma from doing the hearts and events on the way in the process. I am not aware of any other "karma heavy" items.

#4 Moharis Frostreign

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:33 PM

I can confirm that the Birthday booster does not increase Karma gain.

#5 Minion

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:37 PM

View PostMordakai, on 17 February 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

So, has anybody tested to see if you get bonus Karma from the birthday boosters?

Tested. You don't get shit.

#6 rusticgamer

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 05:04 PM

A really really good way to farm karma is if your guild is running Orr events farm with all karma buffs. That basically means that you take your guild from Straits of Devastion to Malchor's Leap to Cursed Shore and complete ALL events that Orr has to offer. And yes doing hearts and events on the way is also the way to go. Fractals do not reward that terribly much and it takes time to find a good group.

#7 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:28 AM

And here am I, sitting on 4 mil (most pre-nerf) karma and nothing to spend it on. I still wish there was a trader that offered basic-looking, berserker exotics. :(

#8 cyclopsje

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:59 AM

And there i thought karma was a fail currency, didnt even notice some places didnt give any. But tbh playing normally should give you enough.

#9 moomooo1

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 09:15 AM

Interesting that karma should be so hard to get now. Old time players will remember when karma was abundant(jugs anyone?) and probably have a huge stockpile of karma with nothing to spend it on. I myself have 2mil stored up and I've already made my legendary.

If you aren't close though to finishing the other parts of the legendary, perhaps you can tailor your farming route/routine to include karma aswell, so by the time you are done, perhaps you'll have enough karma then. Best of luck either way!

#10 Miragee

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:55 AM

So basically it's like in the beginning but no one likes to farm Orr event chains 24/7 anymore now that they tasted the anet changes that made karma completly irrelevant? Welp.

The thing with the buff is ridiculous though.

#11 Epixors

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:53 PM

I don't like it either, before I had a decently steady income of karma from dungeons, after all the ascended crafting I'm pretty much broke.

#12 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:59 PM

View Postcyclopsje, on 18 February 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

It's bizarre no one has already kicked up a storm. Must be more WvWers than I thought. Imagine if the incentive to do the triple wurm boss in Bloodtide turns to karma- "Nerfed all sources of karma gain by 80%, added 50k karma gain to the wurm chests per head killed".

The amount of people who actually have trouble gathering karma after completing the world map just happens to be around zero, that's all. Now if you complete the world map, buy all sets from Orr, and then realize that you hate them that might change things a tad.

#13 Konzacelt

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:28 PM

Why nerf karma acquisition anyway, what does it matter?  It's almost like ANet doesn't want anyone to have too much of anything.

Sometimes this game feels like a controlled society and my daily allotment of nutrients keeps getting adjusted. :mellow:

#14 Jentari

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:48 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 18 February 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

Why nerf karma acquisition anyway, what does it matter?  It's almost like ANet doesn't want anyone to have too much of anything.

Sometimes this game feels like a controlled society and my daily allotment of nutrients keeps getting adjusted. :mellow:


Because it is.  Anet wants you to play as you like as long as that is as Anet likes.

And the karma change was not needed.

#15 Minion

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:00 PM

View PostJentari, on 18 February 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

Because it is.  Anet wants you to play as you like as long as that is as Anet likes.

And the karma change was not needed.

They could have just put all the karma liquid drops from dungeons and put the karma gain into a single packet after the boss dies at the end of the path. Instead they lazily removed all the karma.

#16 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:30 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 18 February 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

Why nerf karma acquisition anyway, what does it matter?  It's almost like ANet doesn't want anyone to have too much of anything.

Sometimes this game feels like a controlled society and my daily allotment of nutrients keeps getting adjusted. :mellow:

Karma was a reward for doing overworld content. People would instead farm dungeons for the stuff. To get people back to the open world they just removed it from dungeons.

#17 Konzacelt

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:55 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 18 February 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:

Karma was a reward for doing overworld content. People would instead farm dungeons for the stuff. To get people back to the open world they just removed it from dungeons.

If you actually think that was the real reason, you're more naive than I thought.

Edited by Konzacelt, 18 February 2014 - 10:55 PM.


#18 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 12:33 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 18 February 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

If you actually think that was the real reason, you're more naive than I thought.
So why did they do it then?

#19 Karuro

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 01:29 PM

They even changed those refugee child drawings to giving Luck (25)  instead of Karma.

#20 Miragee

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 02:05 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 19 February 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

So why did they do it then?

To make people player longer (karma nerf on the best sources) and to funnel players into new content (Tequatl, Fractals). If your argument would be right, they would have removed it from fractals as well, right? But they didn't.

Karma was intended to be a currency rewarded for helping others out - be it open world or not. Prerelease, a prime example for this was that you would get rewarded with karma if you helped friends with their Personal Story. Karma was never intended to be an open world currency only.
Since release they changed karma inherently in its role from being a nice reward for helping to a tool to manipulate players (a bit harsh, but that's the direction). It begun with making karma acc-bound btw.

#21 Konzacelt

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 02:36 PM

^ What he said.

#22 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:00 PM

View PostMiragee, on 19 February 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

To make people player longer (karma nerf on the best sources) and to funnel players into new content (Tequatl, Fractals). If your argument would be right, they would have removed it from fractals as well, right? But they didn't.

Karma was intended to be a currency rewarded for helping others out - be it open world or not. Prerelease, a prime example for this was that you would get rewarded with karma if you helped friends with their Personal Story. Karma was never intended to be an open world currency only.
Since release they changed karma inherently in its role from being a nice reward for helping to a tool to manipulate players (a bit harsh, but that's the direction). It begun with making karma acc-bound btw.
Karma train produces more Karma. Always has. Event chains in general produced more karma over time. Always have.

Karma from Fractals is actually the equivalent of the pre-release behavior. The personal story nerf makes sense since because you could just run tons of early quests as a upper and basically walk someone through the story. It removes the need to play and allows for basically text-based piggybacking behavior .

Karma rewards were actually really lenient; instead of "turning it into a whip" characters got banned for abusing it thus why the merchants in LA all sell bell peppers now. The story of Karma is nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be; abuse occurred again in dungeon runs and the only loss is actually just instanced content. If you are really paying attention all other forms of content for the non-PvP sector produce karma as normal(inb4someonementionsfractals: Karma is still the flagship "Thanks for helping"; you simply cannot abuse fractals).

The removal of the boost is likely due to the game no longer really dealing in a dead system that was just overabused to the point where it's been all-but-abandoned. Minus major purchases that require you to acquire ridiculous amounts of Karma anyway ( completing the world map, for instance ) it is not only easy to get as a currency but it's also a dying one.

Just reality.

Edited by gw2guruaccount, 19 February 2014 - 03:03 PM.


#23 MazingerZ

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:06 PM

View PostMinion, on 17 February 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Since the dissolution of karma in dungeons, there are now only three places in which to seriously gain karma:

1. Tequatl
2. lower-level fractals (I think 10 levels below your personal reward yields max karma)
3. WvW

It seems incredibly unfair and inconsistent of Anet to pigeonhole players wishing to craft legendaries, and other karmic required goods, into these three events. No other world event yields the insane karma rewards as Tequatl. Most world events offer 500 karma tops, with all the buffs, while Tequatl gives closer to 15-20k.

Fractals is essentially a glorified dungeon chain, yet earning 9k-15k karma is justified? Why not balance this out for daily dungeons too?

By the way, check your Birthday Boosters, there's something fishy about them. Remember, you only get them once every 365 character days.

Should karma really be this exclusive?

If it means narrowing player-flexibility, then yes.  It's all about controlling the influx of wealth in the game.  Karma's not an RNG table.  Karma vendors aren't RNG either.  They have to control the influx of wealth from converting karma to gold (there are guides to do it).  Another flaw in the game when your revenue model is interacting with the in-game economy.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#24 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:19 PM

View PostMazingerZ, on 19 February 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

If it means narrowing player-flexibility, then yes.  It's all about controlling the influx of wealth in the game.  Karma's not an RNG table.  Karma vendors aren't RNG either.  They have to control the influx of wealth from converting karma to gold (there are guides to do it).  Another flaw in the game when your revenue model is interacting with the in-game economy.
Which is an outright lie since major forms of conversion have already been dealt with well over a year ago ( thus the bannings ). Karma is simply being cycled out; you see this in many other games and systems where there is a diminished presence of an aspect that is required for the game reflected in less and less support of that aspect.

Converting Karma to gold now is not some form of highly profitable and insanely intelligent venture; buying Orrian boxes is anything but "clever".

#25 MazingerZ

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:25 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 19 February 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

Which is an outright lie since major forms of conversion have already been dealt with well over a year ago ( thus the bannings ). Karma is simply being cycled out; you see this in many other games and systems where there is a diminished presence of an aspect that is required for the game reflected in less and less support of that aspect.

Converting Karma to gold now is not some form of highly profitable and insanely intelligent venture; buying Orrian boxes is anything but "clever".

LOL, then what else would you use karma for then, in a trade-able form?

That's the point your logic seems to be lacking in, my friend.  The simple fact that for a lot of people.  A LOT of people, karma is currency they don't need, so they launder it into a currency they can trade.  Its just another way to earn money in the game, which is actually clever, otherwise you're sitting on a currency you can't use otherwise.

No, karma's being phased out because it can make its way into the in-game economy via gold.  It'll be replaced with tighter control methods like laurels.

You can also do far more with karma than just buy the Orrian boxes.

The entire point isn't whether its 'clever' or not, the point is that you have a rather abundant source of currency you aren't using, and can therefore find ways to dump it for the real money, gold.  But gold doesn't turn itself into USD or EUR, so you have to adjust the sources of gold to keep the USD and EUR flowing.

Edited by MazingerZ, 19 February 2014 - 03:30 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#26 Konzacelt

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:27 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 19 February 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

Which is an outright lie since major forms of conversion have already been dealt with well over a year ago ( thus the bannings ). Karma is simply being cycled out; you see this in many other games and systems where there is a diminished presence of an aspect that is required for the game reflected in less and less support of that aspect.

Converting Karma to gold now is not some form of highly profitable and insanely intelligent venture; buying Orrian boxes is anything but "clever".

I used karma quite a bit.  Are you saying that because it wasn't popular, it is therefore useless?  It's just a back-up method of purchasing things so you don't have to rely so much on gold or gems.  It was a good thing.

#27 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:35 PM

View PostMazingerZ, on 19 February 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

LOL, then what else would you use karma for then, in a trade-able form?

That's the point your logic seems to be lacking in, my friend.  The simple fact that for a lot of people.  A LOT of people, karma is currency they don't need, so they launder it into a currency they can trade.  Its just another way to earn money in the game, which is actually clever, otherwise you're sitting on a currency you can't use otherwise.

No, karma's being phased out because it can make its way into the in-game economy via gold.  It'll be replaced with tighter control methods like laurels.

Actually the most profitable karma trade is for simple salvage kits. For a mere 15 karma you can earn more than enough silver and gold, if you were really being staunch about saving money, to make it worth your while all while gaining luck which in turn increases profitability as well. Since most gear is greens, blues, or whites there's no value to breaking it down with anything prolific.

What most people missed is that when times change so do currencies and their values. It is by far faster and cheaper than trying to convert them out of boxes that now are filled with not-so-tradeable things. Since this assessment was never done by most of the population it was missed entirely.

Also to add to this conversions themselves weren't supposed to be possible. They are, but they weren't supposed to be, I mean one laurel is worth probably one gold if you convert it using the T6 mat bag. You always made more off of laurels than you ever did off of karma. This is why everyone's logic is so poor; karma is being phased out because ANET has nothing to do with it not because of the "cleverness" of players. Once a day you're guaranteed about 1g for doing less than 10~15m of "work" completing empty tasks while the conversion ratio for karma was always somewhere in the thousands and this only suffers even more with the lowering of prices for lodestones and the increase in loot from champion boxes.

If my logic lacks, that's fine, but at least make sure my logic is genuinely lacking.

View PostKonzacelt, on 19 February 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

I used karma quite a bit.  Are you saying that because it wasn't popular, it is therefore useless?  It's just a back-up method of purchasing things so you don't have to rely so much on gold or gems.  It was a good thing.
Not really. Karma had two major sinks: Orrian Sets and Legendaries. At least after the major purchasing power nerf. I mean yes I bought Orrian sets but I wouldn't be the first to say that I "used Karma and it was imperative"; no, the meta and most builds even at the time weren't using this crap.

It just never panned out to anything.

#28 Konzacelt

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:45 PM

View Postgw2guruaccount, on 19 February 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Not really. Karma had two major sinks: Orrian Sets and Legendaries. At least after the major purchasing power nerf. I mean yes I bought Orrian sets but I wouldn't be the first to say that I "used Karma and it was imperative"; no, the meta and most builds even at the time weren't using this crap.

It just never panned out to anything.

Well, I disagree.  I used karma merchants all the time for gear, food stuffs, and all sorts of random stuff.  I thought it was a very good thing to have a currency other than gold that could get me things I needed.

#29 MazingerZ

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:46 PM

Just because you seem to think that the developers don't have an interest in controlling the in-game economy because the in-game economy directly affects their bottom line, doesn't mean that isn't the case.  Karma's a leak in that boat they're trying to plug, otherwise they could care less.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#30 Lunacy Polish

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:48 PM

Okay okay I'm late to this party...

I can't believe this, you mean to tell me that karma, which is mostly useful for PvE only players (not that it's super useful there but still) isn't given by the most popular PvE content (dungeons).  So the players who are supposed to be collecting all the recipes and skins and litte trinkets you can buy with karma aren't getting karma doing the content intended for them?

But WvW centric players like myself who have limited uses for karma (Orr Trinkets, Runes of Melandru are main uses) are still getting it in spades? (and I am for sure, I may buy an occassional Orrian set but there's always enough in my account wallet for it, hundreds of thousands of karma just sitting there)

That's messed up.  I will grant karma was a hot mess for a long time but this sounds all jacked up.




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