Jump to content

Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

Brazil's DPS Necromancer Guide

dnt brazil necromancer dps

  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 BrazilTheHue

BrazilTheHue

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 421 posts
  • Location:Eugene's Basement
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:08 AM

Intro

http://youtu.be/pdgcQRAdSu4


Finally a Necromancer guide, designed to actually do damage instead of pretending to do damage. The build is not really my own creation, but the video just serves to demonstrate the build and provide some footage of what it can do.


Before we get started
Necromancer doesn't really provide any useful utility that isn't offered in a better form by another class, so they don't really fit into legitimate speedclear compositions. I do enjoy playing it, though, and I guess it is something to save for a rainy day or for "just for fun" runs. The damage output is not bad, it's close to pretty much every class aside from Thief of Elementalist, but Necromancer really doesn't offer anything special. I suppose this is just the state of things.


Weapons
  • Dagger - Mainhand weapon in pretty much every situation. There aren't really any situations that call for ranged damage, probably the only one at this point being Grawl Shaman, so you'll primarily just autoattack with Dagger. Ignore the second and third Dagger ability.
  • Warhorn - Try to avoid using this in trash runs and simply focus on using it for AoE damage in fights. You have a Daze with Warhorn 4.
  • Focus - Very good for stacking up a lot of Vulnerability in a short amount of time, removing boons, or giving something Chill.
  • Axe - ONLY IF YOU ARE USING THE DEATHSHROUD BUILD
Armor and Trinkets
  • Berserker's Trinkets
  • Berserker's Weapons
  • Berserker's Armor
  • Scholar Runes
  • 10% Sigil on your Warhorn and Focus
  • Sigil of Force on your Dagger
Traits
  • 6 Spite. II, X, XII.
  • 6 Curses. V, VII, VIII.
  • 3 Soul Reaping. III.
DEATHSHROUD ALERT
  • 6 Spite. VI, VIII, XII
  • 2 Curses. V
  • 6 Soul Reaping. II, VI, XII
Skills to Have
  • Consume Conditions
  • Blood is Power
  • Signet of Spite
  • Well of Suffering
  • Spectral Walk
  • Spectral Grasp
  • Plague Form
  • Flesh Golem
  • Flesh Wurm
Consumables
  • Curry Butternut Squash
  • Sweet and Spicy Butternut Squash Soup
  • Seaweed Salad or Asparagus and Sage Salad
  • Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew
  • Minotaur Steaks - If you are cheap like me.

Edited by BrazilTheHue, 28 January 2015 - 12:45 PM.

  • 3

#2 Phenn

Phenn

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 805 posts
  • Profession:Necromancer
  • Guild Tag:[THF]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 24 February 2014 - 02:28 AM

Dat team support.

Nice work up of the meta. I'll link to it in my intro thread.

Though at the moment, 20/25/0/0/25 is better for when you want to offer ideal weakness uptime and not take too hard a hit to your deeps. Though I suppose that's far more relevant in Fractals.
  • 0

#3 BrazilTheHue

BrazilTheHue

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 421 posts
  • Location:Eugene's Basement
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 24 February 2014 - 04:19 AM

In Fractals, you should pretty much be using Skale Venom and that alone is all the Weakness you need.
  • 0

#4 OChunx

OChunx

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 118 posts
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 24 February 2014 - 05:02 AM

Yup, this is basically the best possible set-up for necromancer's in PvE. It's just sad how the major traits have almost no synergy with one another and the traitlines are delved into more for their stat gains rather than the traits. I mean Speed of Shadows and Weakening Shroud, really? The worst part is that there's actually nothing better to replace those two things with. Close to Death, Target the Weak, and the two cooldown reduction traits are the only things that define the best necromancer build in PvE, and the rest of the traits and utility skills are just stat stacking with no self-utility much less party utility.

Nothing against you Brazil, though. Like I said, this is basically the best build out there for necromancer. It just reflects so poorly of the necromancer when even the best distribution looks like a jumbled unsynergistic mess.
  • 0

#5 lalangamena

lalangamena

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 180 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:14 AM

around 14:40 at the start of the fight you do 20K and 30K damage with each autoattack for a few seconds, then go down to "regular" damage,
can you PLEASE explain how?
  • 0

#6 Epixors

Epixors

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 401 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[LSL]
  • Server:Seafarer’s Rest

Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:23 AM

around 14:40 at the start of the fight you do 20K and 30K damage with each autoattack for a few seconds, then go down to "regular" damage,
can you PLEASE explain how?


It's because he's fighting Brie during the start.
  • 0

#7 BrazilTheHue

BrazilTheHue

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 421 posts
  • Location:Eugene's Basement
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:50 PM

around 14:40 at the start of the fight you do 20K and 30K damage with each autoattack for a few seconds, then go down to "regular" damage,
can you PLEASE explain how?


It's just the mechanic of that particular fight. Only one person is able to damage her at a time for the first 50% of her health, and that person has to interact with the terminal below her platform. If you watch it again, you'll see the whole process. After she gets to 50%, everyone goes in to fight her.
  • 0

#8 Brandon the Don

Brandon the Don

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 332 posts
  • Location:Somewhere
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Guild Tag:[TH]
  • Server:Gunnar’s Hold

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:55 PM

In Fractals, you should pretty much be using Skale Venom and that alone is all the Weakness you need.


This is true, and the exact same reason why I have found no incentive to further adjust my build...

Fancy seeing you here by the way Brazil - sadly it won't matter much for the necroes as a whole for PvE, I mean even you stated that you "borrowed" your knowledge (likely from Spoj)

Though now you start enjoying Necro, and PvP as well, you should definitely use it in some TPvP matches... I am telling you, it is so much (more) of a fun class there...

Edited by Brandon the Don, 24 February 2014 - 01:56 PM.

  • 0

#9 Pregnantman

Pregnantman

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 155 posts
  • Profession:Necromancer
  • Guild Tag:[LAD]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:14 PM

The build achieves its goal, providing max damage as possible. However, I am kında with Phenn here, 20/25/0/0/25 is a comparable choice. Though I cant comment on the build any more than people did on takarazuka's Glass cannon, I think they would be quite sufficient. Both builds are nearly identical and vary only in major traits which can easily be swapped. Instead of opening a new thread maybe we could have added up to his work, but since the video is your original work you deserve the credit. Cheers.

Edit/Note: The weakness uptime builds sre actually quite useful, given that if weakness is provided by multiple group members using the Skale Venom where they could have used BiS consumables, which will be a significant dps loss for the group. A necromancer with any build from Brandon's thread can maintain weakness on both mobs and boss alone so your group can slot %10 damage increase or power increase consumables while providing comparable damage to Glass Cannon.

Edited by Pregnantman, 25 February 2014 - 10:49 AM.

  • 0

#10 BrazilTheHue

BrazilTheHue

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 421 posts
  • Location:Eugene's Basement
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 24 February 2014 - 10:52 PM

The build achieves its goal, providing max damage as possible. However, I am kında with Phenn here, 20/25/0/0/25 is a comparable choice. Though I cant comment on the build any more than people did on takarazuka's Glass cannon, I think they would be quite sufficient. Both builds are nearly identical and vary only in major traits which can easily be swapped. Instead of opening a new thread maybe we could have added up to his work, but since the video is your original work you deserve the credit. Cheers.

Edit/Note: The weakness uptime builds sre actually quite useful, given that if weakness is provided by multiple group members using the Skale Venom where they could have used BiS consumables, which will be a significant dps loss for the group. A necromancer with any build from Brandon's thread can maintain weakness on both mobs and boss alone so your group can slot %10 damage increase or power increase consumables while providing comparable damage to Glass Cannon.


But again, Fractals are really the only place where you fight mobs that require Weakness, Keeping loads of potions clutters up your inventory and a lot of people don't want to do it, Warriors should be using Axe / Mace and Axe / Warhorn for more Weakness, so Weakness isn't really a problem. Thieves can apply it too, and those are also a staple in Fractal groups. I guess the main thing is keeping up with a lot of consumables, and frankly, it's just more convenient / doesn't matter enough not to use Skale Venom.
  • 0

#11 Pregnantman

Pregnantman

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 155 posts
  • Profession:Necromancer
  • Guild Tag:[LAD]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:05 AM

The Sharpening Stones give +100 Power for the user which is close to what Empower Allies of Warriors provide. The trait is important for Warriors and more often than none builds here are revolved around it. So if one uses Skale Venom that means they do have a gap equal to this nifty trait. So less people using the Skale Venom, more damage for the group.
I am not saying anything about the weakness applied by thieves and warriors, I am only saying that our capabilities to apply weakness shouldnt be neglegted as it is actually promising if not equal to both Warriors and Thieves can offer combined.

Edit: Grammer

Edited by Pregnantman, 25 February 2014 - 11:08 AM.

  • 0

#12 Nikephoros

Nikephoros

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1156 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:42 AM

Unfortunately, one Engineer using Skale Venom becomes even better at everything than a Necro, Weakness included. And it can stack Might and Stealth for the team.
  • 0

#13 Brandon the Don

Brandon the Don

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 332 posts
  • Location:Somewhere
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Guild Tag:[TH]
  • Server:Gunnar’s Hold

Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:44 AM

The Sharpening Stones give +100 Power for the user which is close to what Empower Allies of Warriors provide. The trait is important for Warriors and more often than none builds here are revolved around it. So if one uses Skale Venom that means they do have a gap equal to this nifty trait. So less people using the Skale Venom, more damage for the group.
I am not saying anything about the weakness applied by thieves and warriors, I am only saying that our capabilities to apply weakness shouldnt be neglegted as it is actually promising if not equal to both Warriors and Thieves can offer combined.

Edit: Grammer


As much as I would like to agree (hell, currently my necromancer sports the most AR than all my other classes), the weakness a necromancer can apply only works as situational as playing a necromancer all together...
Even if a class has to sacrifice some damage by taking Skale Venom, other classes have vastly more and better utilities to keep the damage up in Fractals than a Necromancer... If you look at Brazil's skill level, you will never pick up a necromancer because of its acces to weakness - you do it because you want to play something different and because you like Necromancers...
If you however are in a random group as I am most of the time, then it doesn't hurt to take one specced for weakness and stuff - though in all honesty, we rarely care what one another runs (Cleric guardian, Rabid Engineer etc.)... It is good to have, but not gamebreaking...

Also to be frank, and this bugs me, without consumables and the same setup in gear (berserker), Warrior can actually weaken foes longer with its warhorn than what necromancers can apply (5s vs 7s), plus it gives you acces to vigor (and guess which class lacks that completely)...
That leaves the Necromancer really as a class with nothing special to add, which bothers me a lot...

Edited by Brandon the Don, 25 February 2014 - 11:45 AM.

  • 0

#14 aspi

aspi

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 905 posts
  • Profession:Elementalist
  • Server:Fissure of Woe

Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:49 AM

Oh this is one of your "use all berserker" guides again? Saved yourself some time and just made one guide.
  • 0

#15 thewindwaker

thewindwaker

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 233 posts

Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:28 PM

Oh this is one of your "use all berserker" guides again? Saved yourself some time and just made one guide.

because there's so much use for the other stat combinations in PvE... oh wait, there isn't :P :P
  • 1

#16 Nikephoros

Nikephoros

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1156 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:52 PM

Oh this is one of your "use all berserker" guides again? Saved yourself some time and just made one guide.


People still run full Dire Necros in PvE, so apparently word hasn't gotten out far enough yet. There is still work to be done in educating the masses.
  • 1

#17 Pregnantman

Pregnantman

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 155 posts
  • Profession:Necromancer
  • Guild Tag:[LAD]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:03 PM

Unfortunately, one Engineer using Skale Venom becomes even better at everything than a Necro, Weakness included. And it can stack Might and Stealth for the team.


This isn't a discussion of whoever can piss farther, but rather evaluating who pisses at a good range. Its good for the Engineers if they can do everything better than a Necromancer (I don't even want to point harsh and unproductive the comment is or get into whole Necromancer vs Engineer stuff), but the point is that Necromancers also excel very well in weakness application as well. Just because we may not be the best at it doesn't mean we don't deserve the recognition for showing our capabilities and helping the group the best we can.

I am not denying that the class is undesired, but I will never play the Necro with the sole intention "because I want to play different and I like Necromancers". Those are already granted. But instead, I want to treat the class not like a "broken tricycle kept for hobby" but something to be invested in. I already know class X is better than Necromancer, we all know it. The fact that all the builders here continue to elaborate upon the Necromancers instead of class X shows all people here are dedicated and passionate towards the class. So stating "oh class X is better in Necromancer in every way" doesn't comply with what we are trying to do at all, but will instead shoo away the new Necromancers. On a thread which aims to help Necromancers, by all means please critize and point out how the ideas here can be improved better, but please don't debunk the class like this. If you must, there are always the general PvE forums.

Edit: To Brazil: You are absolutely right about Dire Necromancers running around so I am sorry if I didn't give enough recognition for your effort. Great job!

Edited by Pregnantman, 25 February 2014 - 03:14 PM.

  • 0

#18 master21

master21

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 447 posts

Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:29 AM

I have some idea.
Let take in spite trait VI and VIII,
and trait VI in soul reaping.
Equip axe with focus, dagger with warhorn.

What we loose compared to this basic.
1. Cd reduction on focus
2. Chill of death (20 cd for mobs <50%)

What we get.
Hardest hitting possible DS when on axe. Ability to stack more might and vuln.

Dagger will still deal more damage on single target and it's still highest possible for it. But for corner pulls, stack fights, trash and dynamic fights with more moving around we can use also DS, which because of life transfer and pierce on lifeblast should be better there.

I didn't do math so I can't really say how much less dps is lifeblast on axe vs dagger on single target but it should easly outdamaged it in group fights. It also gives some space for mistake. Everytime you get hitted harder and can't heal right now you can change to axe, use ds and dps waiting for your heal.
  • 0

#19 Pregnantman

Pregnantman

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 155 posts
  • Profession:Necromancer
  • Guild Tag:[LAD]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 26 February 2014 - 04:44 PM

You are right, in optimal conditions DS builds can do some good damage. It is potentially possible to do even more damage than dagger autoattack spam time to time - you have to spend minimal time outside DS - but as Epixor once put it; its only by a small margin. However, a DS build needs to be traited well if it was to compete with dagger builds. You have most of the stuff already in your build, but without Deathly Perception DS simply cannot match the single target dps of daggers. Also, without Vital Perception you will not stay in DS as long without using Locust Swarm on multiple opponents, but in corner stacks you probably wouldn't need to stay that long in DS anyway.

If you intend to use DS for short duration and/or AoE fights then by all means have it your way. But in prolonged fights I suggest dagger.
  • 0

#20 master21

master21

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 447 posts

Posted 26 February 2014 - 06:28 PM

Deathy perception is overrated in DS builds.
50% crit chance looks good in solo scenario or lack of boons scenario, but with 30/25 build you end up with 55 or something similar crit chance at base.
Add banner, food, sigils and fury, so quite standard things and you end up with something close to 90%.

That's why I think that DS build is even in terms of theory just not optimal for group scenario. It's IMO best necro solo build, because you run with 9k 100% crit chance hitting lifeblast but in groups this isn't that good, boons are just wasted on you.
  • 1

#21 Pregnantman

Pregnantman

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 155 posts
  • Profession:Necromancer
  • Guild Tag:[LAD]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 27 February 2014 - 07:51 AM

Using sigils and food means you will have to choose it over power or direct damage related sigils and foods. That itself is a damage loss. Deathly Perception is necessary for DS builds to beat dagger damage because with the same setup DS builds should have %100 crit chance and dagger will have %55 ish unbuffed, without using any precision food/sigils to do so. The key is getting an advantage. For DS with an autoattack that is as slow as 1.5 seconds beat dagger's fast attacks, you need something they don't have and that is stacking might, vulnurability and %100 crit chance.
  • 0

#22 Yuberoth

Yuberoth

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 35 posts

Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:33 AM

You forgot the most important thing imo, pierce.
  • 0

#23 Pregnantman

Pregnantman

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 155 posts
  • Profession:Necromancer
  • Guild Tag:[LAD]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:45 AM

You forgot the most important thing imo, pierce.


If you intend to use DS for short duration and/or AoE fights then by all means have it your way. But in prolonged fights I suggest dagger.


I had already accepted that DS is better on AoE than dagger, and we moved on the following posts comparing the single target dps of DS and dagger so don't worry we haven't forgotten piercing - it just wasnt related to single target. I am sorry if I didn't make it clear enough.

Edited by Pregnantman, 27 February 2014 - 09:47 AM.

  • 0

#24 Epixors

Epixors

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 401 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[LSL]
  • Server:Seafarer’s Rest

Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:17 AM

You are right, in optimal conditions DS builds can do some good damage. It is potentially possible to do even more damage than dagger autoattack spam time to time - you have to spend minimal time outside DS - but as Epixor once put it; its only by a small margin.


You have a good memory.
  • 3

#25 ArtimiseFlare

ArtimiseFlare

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 104 posts
  • Profession:Elementalist
  • Server:Gate of Madness

Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:21 PM

Is this strictly a dungeon build or is this viable in open world as well? Certain bosses such as the Watchwork knights in the current living story and Jormag require you to remain at range. How easy would it be to tweak this without a trait reset to make this work when melee range is simply not viable?
  • 0

#26 Brandon the Don

Brandon the Don

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 332 posts
  • Location:Somewhere
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Guild Tag:[TH]
  • Server:Gunnar’s Hold

Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:34 PM

Is this strictly a dungeon build or is this viable in open world as well? Certain bosses such as the Watchwork knights in the current living story and Jormag require you to remain at range. How easy would it be to tweak this without a trait reset to make this work when melee range is simply not viable?


Have Axe/focus on swap - if you want you can even take axe mastery as a trait... I find that to be the most reliable or optimal option for ranged fights...

Mind you though, Axe is a weak weapon in PvE when just autoattacking... Usually after focus 5/4 and Axe 2, people jump into Deathshroud and shoot like four blasts and get into their rotations...
  • 0

#27 ArtimiseFlare

ArtimiseFlare

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 104 posts
  • Profession:Elementalist
  • Server:Gate of Madness

Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:47 PM

Have Axe/focus on swap - if you want you can even take axe mastery as a trait... I find that to be the most reliable or optimal option for ranged fights...

Mind you though, Axe is a weak weapon in PvE when just autoattacking... Usually after focus 5/4 and Axe 2, people jump into Deathshroud and shoot like four blasts and get into their rotations...


That also builds might stacks correct? You're just using the axe to build life force at that point if I'm not mistaken. If I recall, criting a target does not affect houw much your gain and it's a fixed amount depending on the weapon correct? I'm a little fuzzy on the mechanics since I've not played my necro in an age.
  • 0

#28 Brandon the Don

Brandon the Don

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 332 posts
  • Location:Somewhere
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Guild Tag:[TH]
  • Server:Gunnar’s Hold

Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:17 PM

That also builds might stacks correct? You're just using the axe to build life force at that point if I'm not mistaken. If I recall, criting a target does not affect houw much your gain and it's a fixed amount depending on the weapon correct? I'm a little fuzzy on the mechanics since I've not played my necro in an age.


You can trait for might on lifeblast hits indeed, it is in the first traitline of Spite... Axe 2 does indeed build up life force and critting does not affect how much you gain as far as I know...
  • 0

#29 ArtimiseFlare

ArtimiseFlare

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 104 posts
  • Profession:Elementalist
  • Server:Gate of Madness

Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

You can trait for might on lifeblast hits indeed, it is in the first traitline of Spite... Axe 2 does indeed build up life force and critting does not affect how much you gain as far as I know...


Thanks for the reply, I'm a little surprised at how hard this hits, then again, it is a glass cannon dagger build. Hows the sustainability in regards to re-charging life force after depletion for ranged combat? I'm not to familiar with how the rotation would go with DS on something like this.

Also, what sigils would I use for an off hand like axe and focus?

Edited by ArtimiseFlare, 10 March 2014 - 09:02 PM.

  • 0

#30 Brandon the Don

Brandon the Don

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 332 posts
  • Location:Somewhere
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Guild Tag:[TH]
  • Server:Gunnar’s Hold

Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:05 PM

Thanks for the reply, I'm a little surprised at how hard this hits, then again, it is a glass cannon dagger build. Hows the sustainability in regards to re-charging life force after depletion for ranged combat? I'm not to familiar with how the rotation would go with DS on something like this.

Also, what sigils would I use for an off hand like axe and focus?


The DPS for necromancers is most certainly not the issue :P
Survivability comes from DS naturally, if you get to understand the boss mechanics better, you know when to pop it (say Archdiver or Mossman in Fractals)...
Rotation in DS is pretty much 5, and then 4 times #1
  • 0





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users