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In the end I just wish Arena Net would finish Guild Wars 2


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#1 Arkham Creed

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:56 PM

And so we come to the close; the end of Living World Season 1. And as I contemplate how Arena Net is likely to ruin the one thing that quite a number of us are hoping for from this event (an end to the Scarlet story arc –makes a throat slashing motion-) I find myself wondering just what will come next. We know there is a supposedly large feature and balance patch on the way, and the last I heard Arena Net had confirmed that they would be “taking a break” from the Living World between seasons. But how long of a break? And what will we see in the meantime?

Could we perhaps get multiple feature updates, or will it be just the one? Will we continue to see two updates a month, or will that likewise be slowing down? And just what is Arena Net’s plan to move forward? Perhaps I have simply been out of the loop, but the last I heard those were all unknowns. And as I think about it, I find myself wishing Arena Net would finish the base game before expanding on it.

There are so many features we were told would ship with the game that never came, or that were added unfinished. We finally did get a (semi-functional) looking for group tool and a rather serviceable guesting system, however late. But the multiple armor and weapon sets available exclusively as achievement awards is something of a half-measure. And those are just the things we did get, to a fashion. What ever happened to the bar-brawl mini-game? What ever became of the unfinished Polymoc arena in Rata Sum? How long will I have to endure NPCs asking me to visit a shooting gallery I cannot enter?

And then there is the missing role-play features like being able to sit on furniture. And what about the ability to interact with random objects by way of the “environmental weapon” system, or the promise that “any outfit you see an NPC wearing will be available to players through some means.” Am I the only one who remembers those promises or the little web-comics Arena Net commissioned for their blog that specifically poked fun at other MMOs (WoW in particular) for not allowing such things?

And then there is the actual adventuring content left unfinished. We now know for a fact that the Arah dungeon is unfinished and the final battle is not as Arena Net envisioned due to time constraints (I suspect that the airship battle is supposed to lead into an “on the ground” phase of the battle that was simply never finished), and Arena Net even said they wanted to go in and revise it at some point. What better time than now? But more than that it seems that the Personal Story is only half-finished. Just what point is there to choosing a god as a human? And what about all the go-nowhere plot threads like the return of the White Mantel or the corrupt minister seeking to overthrow the queen? And what in God’s name is the point of a personality system that doesn’t do ANYTHING? I seem to recall something about NPCs having different reactions based on your reputation and even new resources and skins becoming available because of it.

In games it is only natural for developers, however talented, to bite off more than they can chew and have to cut features and content. This is expected. But to leave parts of it, like little breadcrumbs for us to follow in our minds to a vision of what Guild Wars 2 could have been or was supposed to have been, just feels irresponsible. And once again; I just wish Arena Net would use this break from the Living World to finish Guild Wars 2.

Edited by Arkham Creed, 01 March 2014 - 11:01 PM.


#2 Andemius

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:32 PM

I'd be happier if the team doing balance wasn't a bunch of monkeys and/or parakeets poking at the keyboard.

Additionally I'd like the game I was promised at the offset, Gw1, but with more stuff.

#3 Juanele

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:20 AM

View PostAndemius, on 01 March 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:



Additionally I'd like the game I was promised at the offset, Gw1, but with more stuff.

they never promised that

#4 Echou

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:10 AM

Agreed. Now that Living Story is coming to an end and developing pace seems to slow down I hope ArenaNet focuses more on the vanilla stuff. There are lots of things in PvE (Personality, Environment weapons) which feel slightly dissapointing. These features have so much potential and I'd love to see more of them.

Pretty much repeating here but ArenaNet could develop the unfinished vanilla features before they completely forget them. But then again, GW1.

#5 Andemius

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:59 AM

View PostJuanele, on 02 March 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

they never promised that

Well, suffice it to say what we have is closer to every other MMO than it's corpg predecessor.

#6 Nesiko

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:21 AM

There is probably a lot of storyline of the ministry, white mantle, personality traits and hell even housing (or Guild Halls, anyone remember that?) I would like to see. I also would like maybe the personal story after you leveled up in your Order to be more decision base on your order. Even though you can do whatever Order decision when it comes towards Zhaitan but make each decision count that it has some matter of importance.

#7 Mizpah

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:09 PM

Why? Not to sound like a troll, but if they "finished" the game there would be just more complaints. People would find new things to complain about and they would say how things should have been implemented but we're not implemented correctly and how things are broken and how just unhappy they are with the general content.

I too am looking forward to new maps and new professions and just a general completeness of the game. I am also looking forward to the things that were promised in beta stages that still have yet to be fully implemented. But I am also content to let Anet build the game they see fit because there have been new things added that yet while not perfect by any means have been interesting and surprising. They had seem to have many good ideas, but less than ideal carry out. They seem to be experimenting trying to reach perfection. In the end, who knows what will happen. Old content released in a new format is just old content rehashed. Maybe they will come up  with something new and exciting that nobody expected.

Edited by Mizpah, 02 March 2014 - 06:11 PM.


#8 Arkham Creed

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:36 PM

View PostMizpah, on 02 March 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Why? Not to sound like a troll, but if they "finished" the game there would be just more complaints. People would find new things to complain about and they would say how things should have been implemented but we're not implemented correctly and how things are broken and how just unhappy they are with the general content.

I too am looking forward to new maps and new professions and just a general completeness of the game. I am also looking forward to the things that were promised in beta stages that still have yet to be fully implemented. But I am also content to let Anet build the game they see fit because there have been new things added that yet while not perfect by any means have been interesting and surprising. They had seem to have many good ideas, but less than ideal carry out. They seem to be experimenting trying to reach perfection. In the end, who knows what will happen. Old content released in a new format is just old content rehashed. Maybe they will come up  with something new and exciting that nobody expected.

Actually I have to fully disagree with your assessment. I don’t think Arena Net is experimenting, they are stumbling, and I don’t think they are building the game as they see fit, they are winging it. As I said it is a known fact that some content in the base game was implemented unfinished due to time constraints, but beyond that I think Arena Net got…thrown off course, just before release and now have no idea what they are doing. Now this is largely speculation, but bear with me for a moment.

What do we know? We know that the area of Divinity’s Reach once called the Great Collapse and now the Queen’s Pavilion was originally the Canthan District, but had to be cut (haphazardly) from the game because for some inexplicable reason NC Soft said they couldn’t display any direct references to Canthan culture. Likewise the original plan, as stated by Jeff Grubb and confirmed by Colin Johansson  multiple times before release, was to begin development of Guild Wars 2’s first BOXED EXPANSION within the first year, to be released near the beginning of year two. Likewise, for some reason, that plan has changed and Arena Net now denies any set plans for an expansion. And that isn’t even mentioning the obviously “Asian inspired (Canthan)” designs for crafted exotic armor, especially heavy armor. Oh, and while we’re at it let’s not forget about the Tengu race; a heavily Canthan influenced race that was originally intended to be playable in the base game, but then moved to the expansion waiting list.

Cantha. It all comes back to Cantha, the location of the original Guild War’s first expansion campaign. I believe the original plan was to release a Cantha based expansion by now, but in their great (laughable) wisdom NC Soft vetoed anything having to do with that setting at the last minute, thus utterly destroying Arena Net’s plans moving forward. And not only their year one plans either, as Jeff Grubb also said that he had drafted four expansions already, but it is likely that each was intended to build off the first Canthan based one. So NC Soft basically erased everything Arena Net planned to do with the game outright.

So now what do we have? We have Arena Net scrambling to pacify us with largely random and unrelated updates (only tied together in the “eleventh hour” by a character embodying the Deus Ex writing troupe) that have nothing to do with the established lore, either that of the original game or the new created specifically to drive the world of Guild Wars 2, and their best and most talented writers have disappeared into obscurity while Bobby Stein and Angel McCoy oversee said scrambling. I can only hope the “real” writers are trying to adapt those old plans, and maybe somewhere someone is pushing to get the original plan back on track, but right now it is pretty obvious that Arena Net isn’t in “artistic experimentation” mode; they are in “oh God what do we do now?” mode.

#9 ObscureThreat

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:03 PM

I just wish they would focus all their attention on overhauling the current PVE combat/system/instances and leave the Living Story alone for like 6 months. Rework all the world bosses to be like Teq or Marionette.  Completely redo all the dungeons so it requires some teamwork past stacking in corner tactics. Completely change how stats work, and get rid of Berserker being the only choice for effective PVE gameplay. In addition focus on PVP and improving the number of people playing it. Right now PVP is seemingly left to rot at the side.

#10 Arkham Creed

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:10 PM

View PostObscureThreat, on 02 March 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

I just wish they would focus all their attention on overhauling the current PVE combat/system/instances and leave the Living Story alone for like 6 months. Rework all the world bosses to be like Teq or Marionette.  Completely redo all the dungeons so it requires some teamwork past stacking in corner tactics. Completely change how stats work, and get rid of Berserker being the only choice for effective PVE gameplay. In addition focus on PVP and improving the number of people playing it. Right now PVP is seemingly left to rot at the side.

Interestingly enough in the upcoming balance and feature patch they will be nerfing zerker gear. They didn’t say as much directly, but they did confirm that they would be changing critical damage into a new stat that offers diminishing returns, much the same as the relationship between precision and critical chance. In the same statement they said that this change would result in as much as a 10% decrease in damage output for the “most extreme damage focused builds.” I read that as zerkers.

#11 Nesiko

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:23 PM

View PostArkham Creed, on 02 March 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

Actually I have to fully disagree with your assessment. I don’t think Arena Net is experimenting, they are stumbling, and I don’t think they are building the game as they see fit, they are winging it. As I said it is a known fact that some content in the base game was implemented unfinished due to time constraints, but beyond that I think Arena Net got…thrown off course, just before release and now have no idea what they are doing. Now this is largely speculation, but bear with me for a moment.

What do we know? We know that the area of Divinity’s Reach once called the Great Collapse and now the Queen’s Pavilion was originally the Canthan District, but had to be cut (haphazardly) from the game because for some inexplicable reason NC Soft said they couldn’t display any direct references to Canthan culture. Likewise the original plan, as stated by Jeff Grubb and confirmed by Colin Johansson  multiple times before release, was to begin development of Guild Wars 2’s first BOXED EXPANSION within the first year, to be released near the beginning of year two. Likewise, for some reason, that plan has changed and Arena Net now denies any set plans for an expansion. And that isn’t even mentioning the obviously “Asian inspired (Canthan)” designs for crafted exotic armor, especially heavy armor. Oh, and while we’re at it let’s not forget about the Tengu race; a heavily Canthan influenced race that was originally intended to be playable in the base game, but then moved to the expansion waiting list.

Cantha. It all comes back to Cantha, the location of the original Guild War’s first expansion campaign. I believe the original plan was to release a Cantha based expansion by now, but in their great (laughable) wisdom NC Soft vetoed anything having to do with that setting at the last minute, thus utterly destroying Arena Net’s plans moving forward. And not only their year one plans either, as Jeff Grubb also said that he had drafted four expansions already, but it is likely that each was intended to build off the first Canthan based one. So NC Soft basically erased everything Arena Net planned to do with the game outright.

So now what do we have? We have Arena Net scrambling to pacify us with largely random and unrelated updates (only tied together in the “eleventh hour” by a character embodying the Deus Ex writing troupe) that have nothing to do with the established lore, either that of the original game or the new created specifically to drive the world of Guild Wars 2, and their best and most talented writers have disappeared into obscurity while Bobby Stein and Angel McCoy oversee said scrambling. I can only hope the “real” writers are trying to adapt those old plans, and maybe somewhere someone is pushing to get the original plan back on track, but right now it is pretty obvious that Arena Net isn’t in “artistic experimentation” mode; they are in “oh God what do we do now?” mode.
I still honestly think they are purposely doing the beat around the bush with us and mainly to NCsoft. Because if the asian countries were the main reason NCsoft decide to take out Cantha. I believe Arena Net is just waiting it out for the "perfect" moment to bring in Cantha. Supposedly the Asian countries are suppose to be given Guild Wars 2. So I feel it could possibly mean Cantha may come back.

But I mean really come on, they even have a concept art of Destiny's Edge on the Jaded Sea. Which has to mean that their was a definite plan Cantha to come back. Maybe with the asian countries coming into the game they might hopefully improve the game and stop with the ridiculous living stories that have no point or meaning to the lore.Posted Image

#12 davadude

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:08 PM

View PostNesiko, on 02 March 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

Supposedly the Asian countries are suppose to be given Guild Wars 2.

Arenanet cut out a Canthan district in Divinity's Reach from the launch of Guild Wars 2 due to the offense from their Asian-based players.  I would not count on seeing Cantha back in its full, GW1 glory; let alone Cantha being brought back for the Chinese/Asian releases.

View PostNesiko, on 02 March 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

But I mean really come on, they even have a concept art of Destiny's Edge on the Jaded Sea.Posted Image

You mention lore... which causes that concept image a highly unlikely contender as GW2 concept art, seeing as the Jade Sea has returned to being largely liquefied according to the "movement of the worlds."

Edited by davadude, 02 March 2014 - 09:08 PM.

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#13 ObscureThreat

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:47 PM

View PostArkham Creed, on 02 March 2014 - 07:10 PM, said:

Interestingly enough in the upcoming balance and feature patch they will be nerfing zerker gear. They didn’t say as much directly, but they did confirm that they would be changing critical damage into a new stat that offers diminishing returns, much the same as the relationship between precision and critical chance. In the same statement they said that this change would result in as much as a 10% decrease in damage output for the “most extreme damage focused builds.” I read that as zerkers.

Yeah, but I remain sceptical that this will force people to changed from zerkers. Even with a 10% nerf, zerker's is still better choice than alternatives. There needs to be drastic change in mechanics and enemies before that's no longer the case.

#14 Nikephoros

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:58 PM

Critical Damage already has "diminishing returns."

#15 RandolfRa

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:50 AM

View PostNikephoros, on 02 March 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

Critical Damage already has "diminishing returns."
It does not as far as I know. I mean, if it has, then how do I do this?

http://imgur.com/qW9t3Rc

okok that necro was glass as well as indicated by the 3.3k noncrit c&d, but still.

Edited by RandolfRa, 03 March 2014 - 04:09 AM.


#16 Arkham Creed

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:36 AM

You don’t even need that to prove that crit damage doesn’t diminish right now. Its just a direct simple math problem. If you have a weapon with +9% crit damage and gloves with +5% crit damage then you get 14%. Simple.

2+2=4. 4+2=6. 6+2=8….

Diminishing returns would look more like this.

2+2=4. 4+2=5. 5+2=5.5….

Of course that is a rather simplified example, but you get the point. Diminishing returns means that what you get out of stat-stacking is reduced the higher you stack the stat. Right now crit damage doesn't do that.

#17 FoxBat

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:52 AM

A writer admitted they literally haven't thought about Cantha beyond the movement of the world. That piece's purpose was basically to write the region into irrelevance. It's just not going to be on the table for a looong time, certainly not a place that was in planning for the next expansion.

We aren't in year 2 yet and well there's that whole other thread that thinks half the company (everyone not on the live teams) has their thumbs up their asses. The only thing that has likely changed is they are reconsidering whether they can make more through the gemstore (and possibly a staggered release) than retail boxes from the same kind of content.

#18 Arkham Creed

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 05:16 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 03 March 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

A writer admitted they literally haven't thought about Cantha beyond the movement of the world. That piece's purpose was basically to write the region into irrelevance. It's just not going to be on the table for a looong time, certainly not a place that was in planning for the next expansion.

We aren't in year 2 yet and well there's that whole other thread that thinks half the company (everyone not on the live teams) has their thumbs up their asses. The only thing that has likely changed is they are reconsidering whether they can make more through the gemstore (and possibly a staggered release) than retail boxes from the same kind of content.

I have to disagree on both points. Firstly the game’s actual North American release date was August 28th, 2012. Its 2014 now in case you’ve forgotten; year one is over and done with. We are very much into year two; more than half way through it in fact.

Secondly we not only have characters obviously of Canthan decent, but the Canthan district of Divinity’s Reach actually existed in game once; there is a screen shot of it on the wiki. Not a concept art; an actual screen shot. Then, as I stated above; we have obviously Asian inspired armor and weapon sets, and an entire race that couldn’t be more intimately tied to the Canthan setting if it really was exclusive to that expansion. Oh, and Arena Net themselves saying on multiple occasions that they were still pushing internally to be allowed to do Cantha.

Yeah, I think that writer you mentioned was just doing the same kind of “we’ve given up and/or changed our minds” back tracking that we’re now seeing with the concept of expansions in general, dyes being account wide, there not being a vertical progression gear grind, and of course that at no point ever (except in over a dozen interviews) did anyone at Arena Net ever say they would do an open beta. In short; BS.

Edited by Arkham Creed, 03 March 2014 - 05:17 AM.


#19 raspberry jam

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

There is little money in doing that. I mean compare going back and make sure that all the pieces fit, pieces that only people who will go back to replay those parts care about, when the entire business idea, at least right now, is to keep feeding players with new content to keep the interest boucing?

#20 Beyond Freedom

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 09:43 AM

View Postdavadude, on 02 March 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

Arenanet cut out a Canthan district in Divinity's Reach from the launch of Guild Wars 2 due to the offense from their Asian-based players.

How did their Asian-based players offend, exactly?

#21 raspberry jam

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:50 AM

View PostBeyond Freedom, on 03 March 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

How did their Asian-based players offend, exactly?
I think that should read "the offense it caused Asian players"...?

#22 Konzacelt

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 11:14 AM

View PostBeyond Freedom, on 03 March 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

How did their Asian-based players offend, exactly?

NCsoft workshopped the idea to an Asian audience of having an "asian" district inside a "western" city.  Apparently the numbers that came back weren't good because a certain amount of them were somewhat offended by it.  /shrug

#23 nerfandderf

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:35 PM

View PostBeyond Freedom, on 03 March 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

How did their Asian-based players offend, exactly?
Mixing of era Chinese and Korean. not homogenous to 1 type and era.

There was also mention of evocations of genocide type behavior that it elicited from what I remember that caused great offense.

#24 shanaeri rynale

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:38 PM

MMO's are never finished. They always need bug fixes/balances and new content to keep people playing. When a game doesn't have those things people call it dead and go to find other places

I guess the question behind this thread is whether anet should focus on new content(re: LS) or improving existing game mechanics. While in some ways the LS was an interesting experiment(can we out content locust, the content locusts :) ) it's clearly now time for focus on the existing mechanics which after this patch they will do.

#25 Naevius

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:11 PM

Different teams...they need to keep people like concept artists on new content, because that is what those people do. Ditto writers, etc.

Bug fixes and so forth are different groups - and those guys also need to support new content, so there are always priorities to set.

And if ArenaNet management is like my company, nobody really wants to spend money on bug fixes unless they are game-breaking.

#26 Nikephoros

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:19 PM

View PostRandolfRa, on 03 March 2014 - 03:50 AM, said:

It does not as far as I know. I mean, if it has, then how do I do this?

http://imgur.com/qW9t3Rc

okok that necro was glass as well as indicated by the 3.3k noncrit c&d, but still.

View PostArkham Creed, on 03 March 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

You don’t even need that to prove that crit damage doesn’t diminish right now. Its just a direct simple math problem. If you have a weapon with +9% crit damage and gloves with +5% crit damage then you get 14%. Simple.

2+2=4. 4+2=6. 6+2=8….

Diminishing returns would look more like this.

2+2=4. 4+2=5. 5+2=5.5….

Of course that is a rather simplified example, but you get the point. Diminishing returns means that what you get out of stat-stacking is reduced the higher you stack the stat. Right now crit damage doesn't do that.

Put it this way: let's say your critical damage is increased by 10 from whatever number it is now.  Just making up numbers, but let's say that gives you a 5% dps boost overall.  If you add another 10 to your crit damage, it will only increase your total dps boost by 4%.  If you add another 10 it will only add 3% more dps in total.  And so on.

That is what I mean by diminishing returns.  The same issue exists for Power as well.  Once you hit a particular number (determined by crit chance and crit damage) adding more Power will result in smaller and small overall dps % gains.

The only things don't don't suffer from diminishing returns is pure damage modifiers, which is why they are what you make dps builds around rather than pure Power/Pre/Crit traitlines, though the two concept usually overlap well, but not always.

#27 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:52 PM

As far it goes with pure dmg builds aka "zerkers" this is direct fault of Anet, kicking out perfectly legit class Healer/Monk/Priest (call it whatever you like) they forced people to pick up easiest way to beat content at that is in our cays is "pure" dmg builds !
If they didn`t mess with one of the cornerstones of MMO genre we wouldn`t be in this mess now !
And this has domino effect on everything else, yeah some classes can play support but they can`t heal themselves properly let alone save somebody else, also every condition build goes to dust if you take in consideration heavy limit on stacks (basically no condition build can utilize full DPS if in party !!!)
So if we have support without any major effect, limited conditions, and no real tanks and healers........the only thing that is left to beat harder content is pure DMG builds "zerkers", so i ask you what the hell is wrong with them (ANET) instead of nerfing zerkers they should be buffing other BUILDS so some kind of balance would be achieved !!!

And for story, yes i feel that game is half done when released, unfortunetly year and a half in it`s life nothing was even hinted that things will change, we lost complete year on halfbaked poorly written LS that makes little to no sense compared to real GW lore.
I really hope they just give up on LS and start focusing on parts of lore that need to lead this game !!!

#28 Beyond Freedom

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:12 PM

View Postshanaeri rynale, on 03 March 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

MMO's are never finished. They always need bug fixes/balances and new content to keep people playing. When a game doesn't have those things people call it dead and go to find other places

I guess the question behind this thread is whether anet should focus on new content(re: LS) or improving existing game mechanics.

No. As the OP states pretty specifically, this thread is about whether ANet should provide the features it promised for launch but has not yet delivered, before focusing on new content or improving game mechanics.

#29 davadude

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:37 PM

View PostBeyond Freedom, on 03 March 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

How did their Asian-based players offend, exactly?

According to Arenanet, they did not feel that the district fit in with Divinity's.

According to NCSoft, they received "offense claims" from Japanese and Chinese players.  As nerfandderf said, mixing the styles of these cultures is offensive to their national "honor."
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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:54 PM

View Postdavadude, on 03 March 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

According to Arenanet, they did not feel that the district fit in with Divinity's.

See raspberry jam's response.




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