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"[ArenaNet] trying to make the game easier to learn."


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#1 MazingerZ

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:42 PM

https://forum-en.gui...rst#post3087123

Initial topic of the thread was largely about the particle effects and how they render the game unplayable in many instances, so the response itself is kinda OT and doesn't address the original issue of the OP...

However, it did get this response from Colin Johanson.

Colin Johanson, Game Director said:

One of the projects we’re working on in preparing the game to release in new regions is trying to make the game easier to learn. While a lot of that work is in the area of better tutorials, better level up messaging guides, and unique tutorials for specific mechanics we’re also evaluating UI complexity (and system complexity) to try and make information easier to see/consume.

Cleaning up the existing UI systems to make them less cluttered, more-stream lined, and better unified is part of this project and absolutely something you’ll see in the west as well, likely around or possibly even before we release the game in our next major world region.

And to get ahead of the next question: No, we have no solid dates! We’re still in beta in China and are testing and developing all of these new systems to make the game is easier to learn. We haven’t announced timelines for development any other major regions other than being in Beta in China at this time.

/feeling vindicated when making previous statements about how the game doesn't teach you how to play it
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Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#2 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:35 PM

So ongoing development is ongoing. . . ?

#3 Bryant Again

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:45 PM

I remember that thread, and I thought it was an incredibly baffling moment for Colin to poke his head in. Maybe it's because of how strongly I feel about having particle effect optimization and UI customization, but they're still some pretty solid issues to address in a nearly two year old game.

Regarding making it 'easier to learn': I feel that combo fields and the condition cap are two of the biggest things that need to be understood for PvE. Has the game done a better job at explaining them?

Edited by Bryant Again, 06 March 2014 - 09:45 PM.


#4 MazingerZ

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:52 PM

View PostBryant Again, on 06 March 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Maybe it's because of how strongly I feel about having particle effect optimization and UI customization.

Those are QoL enhancements and something you're either going to have to give away for free or roll it into the bundled price to offset development costs in a boxed expansion...  You could raise the price of gem store stuff, but people generally never consider what else gem store items are paying for, just the cost of the item they want to buy, so raising the price too much may have adverse effects on return.

Edited by MazingerZ, 06 March 2014 - 09:52 PM.

It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#5 Konzacelt

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:02 PM

View PostMazingerZ, on 06 March 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

Those are QoL enhancements and something you're either going to have to give away for free or roll it into the bundled price to offset development costs in a boxed expansion...

I'm sure ANet thinks exactly that too, which is just another reason they piss players off.  Most would consider being able to see what the hell is going on in a fight a necessity, and not a QoL issue.  It's almost like they've bought into their own monetization platform so fully, that they think doing something for nothing, no matter how basic and needed it may be, is unacceptable.

#6 gw2guruaccount

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:16 AM

View PostBryant Again, on 06 March 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Regarding making it 'easier to learn': I feel that combo fields and the condition cap are two of the biggest things that need to be understood for PvE. Has the game done a better job at explaining them?
No. I agree with you here too. There are a lot of intricacies and "upper level" information that is just non-existent in the game. Basic gameplay is covered but fields are not covered well even in the online manual that was released with the game in my opinion.

#7 Gyre

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:33 AM

A long while ago now field combos were added in as a daily achievement category, it was short lived.  They should have seriously left that in if for no other reason it would possibly ask an important question:  what is this and why is it important to me?

#8 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 02:35 AM

True, combo fields can be a mystery.  And even with the rather large alert text, even when I'm looking for it, I often miss exactly what combo triggered (if there are potentially multiple fields around).

What I think a more frustrating learning issue is the ENDLESS "boons" and "conditions."  I don't mean the traditional yellow and red ones we all know and love, but the highly unique ones, especially ones introduced only with new content, and usually in a battle on a timer that precludes having time to fully read the tooltip, assuming you can leave your mouse cursor over it long enough, and as long as it's not bouncing around for other boons/conditions being applied and removed endlessly.  Meanwhile you have half a dozen people screaming you need to learn to read and to read a wiki before even bothering to play new content because you're ruining it for the server.

I still think Anet would have been smart to introduce bosses with the mechanics of the Marionette Wardens within story instances, and require completion of those before being allowed to access Marionette (force fields blocking the lanes for example).

#9 MazingerZ

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 11:32 PM

Further additions to the thread:

Colin Johanson said:

Yeah we’ve done a number of steps already this year to improve it, but we have a long ways to go to get it cleaned up to the point we’re happy with. It’s something we’re continuing to work on for sure, but we’re focusing way more on game performance currently before we turn back to the FX side.

...

Apparently I need to be more clear…By performance I’m talking about the work we’re doing to improve server lag when large #‘s of players come together we’ve been updating on lately that has been a major discussion topic lately.

Obviously graphical performance is a type of performance as well, my point is it’s not the part we’re currently as focused on, but are also well aware of and want to improve.

Jon Peters, Lead Game Design said:

To add to what Colin said, the first step is to go into options, click on the graphics tab and make sure the Effect LOD option is checked. We will continue to tweak the #s that option provides as well but I want to make sure you are at least using that option.

...

Game Design Lead

What is does is start to reduce the amount of particles and details on effects once you have a certain # of them on screen. This system relies on us manually setting up a value for how noisy any given effect is so if turning it on does nothing in certain areas, we could simply not have set those effects up correctly. A cursory look at the data seems like they are setup, but there might be some caveats in how the Effect LOD system works that keeps it from turning on for those instances because it is an “important” boss. I’ll dig a bit deeper when I can.

There's a lot of rightly deserved contention on ArenaNet not allowing enough granularity in controlling things... Their system seems to be incapable of differentiating between friend / foe particle effects and therefore their system will say 'F U' to settings if they believe a certain level of particles are needed for the boss, usability be damned.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#10 Kymeric

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:38 AM

View PostReason on Cooldown, on 07 March 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:

the highly unique ones, especially ones introduced only with new content, and usually in a battle on a timer that precludes having time to fully read the tooltip, assuming you can leave your mouse cursor over it long enough, and as long as it's not bouncing around for other boons/conditions being applied and removed endlessly.  Meanwhile you have half a dozen people screaming you need to learn to read and to read a wiki before even bothering to play new content because you're ruining it for the server.

This reminds me of my first encounter with crabs in Southsun.  I'd get the thing on my head, and notice there was a condition.  Mousing over it would inform me that I had a crab on my head.  Terribly useful there.  It was a complete mystery.  I figured it must have some effect other than just visual and that condition that didn't seem to mean anything.

It took me quite a while to realize that the crab was applying other, more standard conditions, but because I was playing a D/D ele I was cleansing them off so fast as a normal part of my rotation, that all that was left was the headcrab condition.




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