Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
- - - - -

Megaservers or not Megaservers?


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 Haggus

Haggus

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 65 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 02:24 PM

Is anyone else having a problem with the new Megaserver set up?  I don't know about how it affects WvW; this is from just a World Event PvE view.  With world events and activities I've noticed a detrimental effect: lag.  It doesn't matter what settings are used; the events are unplayable.  I had an easier time with the Scarlet invasion lag fests than I do with the post-update world events.  Doing an event like Ulgoth, I had a 3-5 second lag; and chat was impossible.  The Jungle worm in Caledon, however, had just as many people as Horse-face last night; yet there were none of the lag issues.  

If it were just me, or just a one-time event, I might just blame it on equipment.  Considering I've had no issues this serious before now, and seeing the thread in the official GW2 forum regarding the megaservers is a mile long, I feel the need to ask: is anyone else experiencing these issues?  I think, if they had a real-world test server, issues like this would be kept to a minimum.

#2 Phineas Poe

Phineas Poe

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1162 posts
  • Location:Washington, DC
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[EG]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 20 April 2014 - 02:31 PM

I led yesterday's guild missions. What a nightmare! We eventually found a solution that worked and we managed to finish tier 3 bounty in 7 minutes despite the complications of the megaserver system, but it required the efforts of ninety people and I'm just not sure that's really the way things should go moving forward. I fear for medium sized guilds that are too large to fit everyone on one map but too small to track all bounties before starting.

Trying to find an empty map for Challenge/Puzzle/Rush was also a bit difficult, but in the end we found one. Just inconvenient.

I also dislike the fact that when I have 150 players online, if I'm trying to do a world event train with my guild, I'm lucky if I see five of them in the same instance at Shatterer or Lyssa. Especially when people are announcing in guild chat that these guys are at 10% and about to die, it's difficult to get into the correct map and get their in time because:

1. There's always more than one copy of the map.

2. There's contested waypoints every-♥♥♥♥ing-where.

Overall, I think it's a good system and I think it will improve QoL play across the game. There's just a few tweaks that need to be made to make guild missions a more satisfying experience without disrupting what makes the megaserver fun: having populated maps. I think the most obvious solution is to have this content instanced, but we'll see what ArenaNet has in store. In any case, something must be done to accommodate large guilds without disrupting the advantages of the megaserver that helps smaller ones.

Something as simple as "opting out" of the megaserver system would be nice. Having a district system built onto the megaserver system is ideal here, where there's your main server instance in a drop-down list, where you can choose to go to one of several megaserver instances instead. For people that want to organize things as a guild the main server instance would be best, whereas those looking for large hordes would go to the megaserver.

I'd also like it if they opened up the world boss schedule a bit. We always did Tequatl at 10:00 EST anyway, but with WvW reset on Fridays we used to do it at 8:00 instead. Now we can't. I don't understand why they had to nerf the spawn timers for Wurm/Teq.

Edited by Phineas Poe, 20 April 2014 - 02:37 PM.


#3 I'm Squirrel

I'm Squirrel

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1111 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Guild Tag:[DPS]

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:43 PM

it doesn't quite work. i'm never in any of the same maps as my guild, my friends, or members in my party.

Edited by I'm Squirrel, 20 April 2014 - 03:44 PM.


#4 davadude

davadude

    Seraph Guardian

  • News Correspondents
  • 1281 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Profession:Elementalist
  • Guild Tag:[Team]
  • Server:Gandara

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:45 PM

People seem to forget that the tuning algorithm, or that which is primarily aimed at bringing players on world or friends lists/guilds together, is not yet active.  They want to roll out the megaserver system across the game before they activate additional functions that might cause serious problems.
Davadude - Guru Village Idiot

#5 Phineas Poe

Phineas Poe

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1162 posts
  • Location:Washington, DC
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[EG]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:47 PM

View Postdavadude, on 20 April 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

People seem to forget that the tuning algorithm, or that which is primarily aimed at bringing players on world or friends lists/guilds together, is not yet active.  They want to roll out the megaserver system across the game before they activate additional functions that might cause serious problems.

Is this true? What a relief!

#6 davadude

davadude

    Seraph Guardian

  • News Correspondents
  • 1281 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Profession:Elementalist
  • Guild Tag:[Team]
  • Server:Gandara

Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:22 PM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 20 April 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Is this true? What a relief!

Outlined in the release patch notes.  They first plan to release the megaserver system in full, before going on to actually fine tune it.
Davadude - Guru Village Idiot

#7 shanaeri rynale

shanaeri rynale

    Seraph Guardian

  • Content Writers
  • 1271 posts
  • Guild Tag:[DVDF]
  • Server:Gandara

Posted 20 April 2014 - 06:15 PM

View Postdavadude, on 20 April 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Outlined in the release patch notes.  They first plan to release the megaserver system in full, before going on to actually fine tune it.

Which is IMHO a totally dumb way of doing it. Doing it the way they are doing it just means it will tick everyone off by the time the filters are working. Surely it was better to get it all working in one zone, then spread out from there than annoying virtually every pve player in the game first,

#8 Desild

Desild

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 985 posts
  • Location:New Eden
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[DKAL]
  • Server:Piken Square

Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:46 PM

Seriously? No one is going to get that? Okay.

To Megaserver or not to Megaserver. That is the question!

Anything that leaves my beloved Rata Sum filled to the brim with random people, eating at my already limited FPS, is inherently bad. I didn't asked for this!

#9 I post stuff

I post stuff

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 184 posts

Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:13 PM

Cool idea. I like it. Everything has people now.

#10 Satenia

Satenia

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 164 posts
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[CULT]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:24 PM

View Postdavadude, on 20 April 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Outlined in the release patch notes.  They first plan to release the megaserver system in full, before going on to actually fine tune it.

Not meaning to nitpick, but do you have a link to that?

From what I can gather from the patches notes on the official wiki, it says that:

Quote

Instead of overflow and home world maps, players will now simply end up in the map that makes the most sense for them, depending on their social environment (party, guild, home world, and more).

To me, this implies that stuff such as home world, guild, etc. is already being taken into consideration.

However, what I actually experience ingame is a complete mess... so I'm simply a bit confused now why that might be so :(

#11 Zhaitan

Zhaitan

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 368 posts
  • Location:3rd rock from the sun
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:34 PM

View Postdavadude, on 20 April 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

People seem to forget that the tuning algorithm, or that which is primarily aimed at bringing players on world or friends lists/guilds together, is not yet active.  They want to roll out the megaserver system across the game before they activate additional functions that might cause serious problems.

It's bad planning. You do not rollout a major update without the essential module that is the essence of the update. Currently, megaserver system is killing World Events, Guild Missions, and, most importantly, feeling of being part of a local community for people who are part of large organized guilds.

They should have rolled out megaserver and its "additional functions" in Queensdale and Cursed Shore only to check out how it worked. Queensdale has champ trains and Cursed Shore has multiple key world events. These two zones would have given ANET enough information to tweak their system before launching them all over the world.

I am beyond displeased with this update.

#12 Krazzar

Krazzar

    Legend of the Norn

  • Members
  • 7986 posts
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:15 PM

View PostZhaitan, on 21 April 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

It's bad planning. You do not rollout a major update without the essential module that is the essence of the update. Currently, megaserver system is killing World Events, Guild Missions, and, most importantly, feeling of being part of a local community for people who are part of large organized guilds.

They should have rolled out megaserver and its "additional functions" in Queensdale and Cursed Shore only to check out how it worked. Queensdale has champ trains and Cursed Shore has multiple key world events. These two zones would have given ANET enough information to tweak their system before launching them all over the world.

I am beyond displeased with this update.

They're leaving something to look forward to while doing large-scale testing and final development.  Nothing is really ready when it's supposed to be.  They could throw out a "finalized" version of this system and then make adjustments or make adjustments incrementally as they add features.  I'm guessing it wasn't feasible to use the full version of this system, they weren't really finished with it and was missing key data to complete it. This way they have somewhat of an out and can salvage this situation for at least some of the playerbase.

Edited by Krazzar, 21 April 2014 - 04:16 PM.


#13 Castaa

Castaa

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 278 posts
  • Location:San Francisco
  • Guild Tag:[Dark]
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:04 PM

The zerging is out of control right now and ruining these encounters. Part of that is the new schedule and part of that is the megaservers.

#14 FoxBat

FoxBat

    Vigil Crusader

  • Members
  • 3973 posts

Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:31 PM

View PostZhaitan, on 21 April 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

It's bad planning. You do not rollout a major update without the essential module that is the essence of the update.

I think we are just guinea pigs for China at this point.

However I don't expect large guilds to ever be truly accomodated by the system, beyond expanding the types of events they can launch. There's no real good way you can ensure a 100+ guild ends up in the same zone, and keep the population levels average for everyone else, unless you knew ahead of time that 100 people were going somewhere and reserved a separate instance for them. (Like say, you might be able to with guild-launched events or mission.) People in such large guilds never needed megaservers to do major content in the first place, the system is trying to solve that problem for everyone else who isn't in said guilds, and it is coming at their cost.

Edited by FoxBat, 22 April 2014 - 12:54 PM.


#15 Feathermoore

Feathermoore

    Underdog

  • Super Moderators
  • 3811 posts
  • Guild Tag:[AWWW]
  • Server:Crystal Desert

Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:51 PM

View PostZhaitan, on 21 April 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

It's bad planning. You do not rollout a major update without the essential module that is the essence of the update.

Can't help it in cases like this. Certain game changes are impossible to test in house and are only fully testable on the live server environment. You can only model the diverse player interactions and responses to changes so much when you are talking about the numbers we are here. EVE had to test the time dilation update on the live server even though there is a test server where they can reliably get large numbers of players to hop on for their testing sessions and the time dilation didn't come with changes that would impact how players moved around in the world.

All they have for their model is the expected number of players in various maps at various times and the typical interrelations between those players. Those numbers would be used to make a rudimentary model that would be able to predict how the server would react. The issue being how much data they had. The update would have been in the working for quite some time so I would hope that they would predict the data need for testing early on in the process or right from the beginning and collect as wide a set as possible. The hiccup being that due to the inherent changes to the game systems, the megaserver update actually changes player activity from the average before the update in a way that the development model's collected data would no longer be correct. This requires tweaking of the systems and can only be determined after the system changes go live. You also can't just roll it out in a small number of zones because without the entire system being in place you can't determine how the system changes will impact player activity. If you rolled it out slowly one zone at a time, then you would just have an extended time period of jerky annoying changes as every time a map switched the algorithm would need to be retooled all over again.

This type of update basically can't come out of the gate smoothly. Plopping it down and seeing how the movement of players changes all at once allows for a faster recovery and development time. Though the downside being that the release has a harder initial jerk. I know I would rather have it finished in a few weeks than a few months as a player and can see why this would also be preferred on the developer side due to more efficient use of employee time.

*Hiccup!* "My gnaester will never be the same." ~ Khairelikoblepharehglukumeilichephriedosd'enagouni

Why hello there forumite. Would you like me to review some moderation you did not agree with? Never fear! PM is here! Want to be a better poster? Check on this link! And this one!


#16 Veji

Veji

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 473 posts

Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:07 PM

Been too busy loving the new PvP rewards and finishing out the WvW tourney meta achieves to worry about it.

From what i've read from the beginning(and now):

People who were on low pop servers:  "YEAH!YEAH!I LOVE YOU MEGASERVER!YEAH!YEAH!"

People who were on high pop servers:  "ANET IS DYING!  THIS SUCKS!  THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!"

We ran guild missions last Saturday and there was really no change.  My only small gripe is that it violates the idea of a 'server community' in big bad way, but its "whateva".  I was never big into champion mob events before and never into killing Teualtadsjflkjsdl, so its had negative impact on my gameplay.  I just miss the familiar faces i'm used to in various zones, but once again, its "whateves" (as the children are hip to saying these days).  Maybe if we all go take "selfies", we'll be happier with it.

#17 Wonsavage

Wonsavage

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 150 posts

Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:25 PM

View Postdavadude, on 20 April 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

People seem to forget that the tuning algorithm, or that which is primarily aimed at bringing players on world or friends lists/guilds together, is not yet active.  They want to roll out the megaserver system across the game before they activate additional functions that might cause serious problems.

lol, the current implementation is causing serious problems.  Also I've never even heard of what you're talking about, delaying the placement algorithms.  I don't really believe that.  I certainly believe they're not working though.  And you all can defend this system all you want, but ArenaNet's utter silence on the issue since release and their limited dismissive response during the announcement of the feature when concerns were raised is deplorable.  There is no reason for any of the players to give them the benefit of the doubt right now.  Trust needs to be earned, and you don't earn it by being utterly silent while your players clamor over the most controversial update you've added to the game.  Regardless of its effect on the game, this whole Megaserver issue is an abomination of PR with their customers.

#18 Datenshi92

Datenshi92

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2389 posts
  • Location:Somewhere
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:20 AM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 20 April 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

--snip--

And if such thing gets implemented, next thing we're going to see rumors about the possibility of raid dungeons and.... *drum roll* guild halls!

Edited by Datenshi92, 24 April 2014 - 11:20 AM.


#19 Craywulf

Craywulf

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5273 posts

Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:18 PM

There are legitimate reasons why they are rolling it out as oppose to just one shot deal. Obviously the most logical reason would be that implementation itself is time consuming task. It probably isn't easy to overhaul the server structure in one fell swoop. So doing in bits and pieces makes it a more feasible task. It also could be more cost-effect to roll it out too.

Chalking it up to bad planning or incompetence is seriously shortsighted. Could the implementation be better, of course. But tell me when ArenaNet has ever not had a problem making radical changes their software?

#20 Phineas Poe

Phineas Poe

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1162 posts
  • Location:Washington, DC
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[EG]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 25 April 2014 - 07:01 PM

View PostDatenshi92, on 24 April 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

And if such thing gets implemented, next thing we're going to see rumors about the possibility of raid dungeons and.... *drum roll* guild halls!

I don't see raid dungeons ever being implemented. For one, the model itself is outdated, and even WoW, a game that was once built around instanced raiding, stepped away from the idea further and further year after year. I would like to see them open up Fractals into being a 10-15 man instance, but that's about it.

The other bigger reason is that the guild roster size of 500 makes organizing that kind of thing a bit difficult. I expect the open world to be continually used as a space for hardcore content. The only question is whether they're going to improve on the system to allow us better ability for self-organization.

"Opting out" is the simplest solution I could think of, but it may be something that just isn't simply possible now that they've pretty much eliminated servers in PvE. The fact that they're making guilds server-agnostic later this year just solidifies the fact that they're trying to push the community to be more guild-oriented than server-oriented. It pains me to think that "Sanctum of Rall" will not really be a thing any longer, but I ultimately think it's a good step for the game and makes it more in line to how things were during GW1.

I expect further refinements of the system over the next few months, hopefully in line to make Tequatl/Wurm a bit easier to organize. Having seen Sparkfly Fen become a megaserver map, I do have to say that the megaserver hasn't heavily impacted our ability to do Tequatl as much as I thought it would. And now at least there's the opportunity that someone outside of SoR can join in our kills.

One week into the megaserver, I'm more OK with it than I was initially.

Edited by Phineas Poe, 25 April 2014 - 07:03 PM.


#21 MCBiohazard

MCBiohazard

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 194 posts

Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:06 AM

As a casual player in a mostly dead guild but with altoholic tendencies nonetheless, the megaserver has only been positive for me. Many dynamic events in previously underpopulated zones that I had to skip in the past because they were not easily completable solo I've been able to do because there has been enough players nearby to finish them. I realize the issues that can occur with large guilds not being able to get into the same instance, but paradoxically as a mostly lone wolf, I am enjoying the game more because there are more people around me to help me finish content.

#22 Baron von Scrufflebutt

Baron von Scrufflebutt

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3228 posts

Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:33 AM

I'd really love to see the chat language filter to be off by default.

#23 master21

master21

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 447 posts

Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:12 PM

Megaservers mostly positive change with few  annoying things.

1. Longer loading time on pretty much everything. Blacktide, my home servers was mostly empty in towns and open world zones, now it's loading and loading all over.
2. WP mess. Sometimes contested sometimes not, probably it's because you can end up in some "new" megaservers instance of map and for this map everything else is contested undone. Annoying because many times you need to wp twice to get to the place.
3. Zerg fests for world bosses and huge mess on them. Timer applies that this and that boss has pre event now but you can't end up in some new version of map with pre event at start or something similar. Annoying for bosses with long pre events.
4. Unlocking grandmaster traits is annoying. No real timer for those events. (mostly Orr), so you either are lucky or hunt it for hours.
5. French ppl everywhere.

#24 Konzacelt

Konzacelt

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 531 posts
  • Location:a prairie under a clear, blue sky
  • Guild Tag:[PD]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:27 PM

View Postmaster21, on 28 April 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

Megaservers mostly positive change with few  annoying things.

1. Longer loading time on pretty much everything. Blacktide, my home servers was mostly empty in towns and open world zones, now it's loading and loading all over.
2. WP mess. Sometimes contested sometimes not, probably it's because you can end up in some "new" megaservers instance of map and for this map everything else is contested undone. Annoying because many times you need to wp twice to get to the place.
3. Zerg fests for world bosses and huge mess on them. Timer applies that this and that boss has pre event now but you can't end up in some new version of map with pre event at start or something similar. Annoying for bosses with long pre events.
4. Unlocking grandmaster traits is annoying. No real timer for those events. (mostly Orr), so you either are lucky or hunt it for hours.
5. French ppl everywhere.

Really??

/Le sigh

#25 MazingerZ

MazingerZ

    Golem Rider

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 2274 posts
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[CYRL]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:32 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 28 April 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Really??

/Le sigh

Probably a knock at the fact that EU is struggling with more language barrier issues than the US.  Nothing really turns me off more than grouping with Brazilians because of the damned language barrier.

Looking forward to War of the Verbals where English will reign supreme.  </Transmetropolitan>
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#26 master21

master21

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 447 posts

Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:42 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 28 April 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Really??

/Le sigh

I should also add Germans too. A lot of them.
Magic algorithm for grouping ppl with the same language etc does not work for now so on EU servers we most of the time end up in some mess of Germans, French, Spanish, Russian, Polish etc ppl.
French tend to ignore english just by default so they speak French, Germans tend to do the same.

I've even been on some map (Southsun cove) when there was one guild (french speaking) making challege, some english speaking making rush and some guild with german speaking ppl trying to spawn Karka. It was really hilarious to see this map chat mess.

View PostMazingerZ, on 28 April 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

Probably a knock at the fact that EU is struggling with more language barrier issues than the US.  Nothing really turns me off more than grouping with Brazilians because of the damned language barrier.

Looking forward to War of the Verbals where English will reign supreme.  </Transmetropolitan>

English is for EU quite strange choice, for huge majority of ppl  it is a second language.

#27 Brizna

Brizna

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 95 posts

Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:57 PM

View PostMCBiohazard, on 27 April 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

As a casual player in a mostly dead guild but with altoholic tendencies nonetheless, the megaserver has only been positive for me. Many dynamic events in previously underpopulated zones that I had to skip in the past because they were not easily completable solo I've been able to do because there has been enough players nearby to finish them. I realize the issues that can occur with large guilds not being able to get into the same instance, but paradoxically as a mostly lone wolf, I am enjoying the game more because there are more people around me to help me finish content.

Exactly that is what Anet intended and in retrospective the megaserver is the greatest succes of the feature patch. That doen't mean it's free of drawbacks, nothing is, but all in all a feature designed to improve open world that improves open world in 95% + cases is good.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users