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#1 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 08:07 AM

It kind of sucks, doesn't it?

I am very much a fan of the unification of the daily system: I love the idea of being able to finish the daily by not being forced into a single mode. But at the same time, especially in line of the daily/monthly AP cap, did they really have to reduce the number of daily activities to 10 between all 3 modes? Also, why does Ambient killer and areas specific kills still exist? And why doesn't WvW defender count for player kills also?

Can we please get another daily rework?

#2 Neo Nugget

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 08:44 AM

I don't really have a problem with it, personally. 45 minutes of WvW gets me my daily, no problem. I think I even got it sPvPing once.

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#3 Senatic

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:36 AM

I have a huge ass problem with it. Before I'd get my daily done just by playing the game. I'd do some dungeons, do some gathering, maybe champ farm a bit and do a world boss and bam it'd be done, didn't need to think about it- just do what's fun.

Now I have to go out of my way to get it completed, I have to interupt my normal gameplay to actually get it done. Which is kind of counter to what they were trying to make the daily be isn't it? They wanted it to be "play whatever YOU like". And now I can't, gg.

#4 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:46 AM

View PostSenatic, on 10 May 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

I have a huge ass problem with it. Before I'd get my daily done just by playing the game. I'd do some dungeons, do some gathering, maybe champ farm a bit and do a world boss and bam it'd be done, didn't need to think about it- just do what's fun.

Now I have to go out of my way to get it completed, I have to interupt my normal gameplay to actually get it done. Which is kind of counter to what they were trying to make the daily be isn't it? They wanted it to be "play whatever YOU like". And now I can't, gg.

Aye, that's basically my problem: as I said, I think the unification was a superb idea (the ability to finish some elements of the the daily in PvP and others in PvE is a very nice improvement, also a slight rework of the core-activities was nice: I love the fact that the majority of activities are not limited to a specific location any more), but I'd prefer if this was simply added on top of the old system. It's very much the trait-system issue once again: they added something that improves the system immensely, but then they also added elements that are a step back from the old system and the problem is that the improvements in no way demand these setbacks. We could have just gotten the improvements, no need to burden us with the poorly designed choices also.

#5 I post stuff

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:26 AM

I don't see what the problem is. Every day I complete the daily just by playing the game no problem. In fact most of the time I don't even notice its progression; the chest just pops up suddenly and I rip the reward.

Edited by I post stuff, 10 May 2014 - 10:27 AM.


#6 velinos

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 11:21 AM

Most of the days it just pops up for me just from playing. About once a week it doesn't. But I can live with that. If I have time I will go and knock out the last remaining bit if there is something I don't mind doing. If not i skip it that one day its not the end of the world.

#7 typographie

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 03:24 PM

I do think the OP has a good point that there are a lot of inelegant aspects, and surely they could do better. But that said, I agree with most of the above that it hasn't caused a real problem for me personally.

#8 FoxBat

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 03:51 PM

One of the stated goals of the daily system (behind all that region-specific things) was to concentrate the playerbase so there'd be more interaction. A bit like the old Zaishen quests, which yes basically told you what to do rather than rewarding you for doing anything. Another was to change up what people were doing everyday, to discourage them from grinding the same thing over and over. With the daily categories balooning they probably weren't having these effects anymore, so that could be part of the reason for the reduction.

Uniting people around daily reviver and ambient killer is just plain counter-productive though, and they ought to garuntee at least one content-specific category (either a region or dungeon thing) if that is their intent behind the system. Right now it's just looking like a push to get more people into wvw/pvp where completing the daily is generally faster.

#9 Senatic

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 04:06 PM

The problem is that the daily system is now very restrictive. Due to the amount of possible daily's being reduced you have less chance of finishing it by sticking to one category within the daily (PvE/WvW/PvP).

If you are the type of player who likes both PvE and either PvP/WvW(or maybe even all three?) then it is very likely that you will finish the daily without really trying, this is simply because all of a sudden you have more potential daily's to complete, the odds are therefor greater that you'll accidentally do one that is on the list whether you intended to finish the daily or not.

Edit: Reading FoxBat's reply I understand this might be what Anets intention was, in my mind this is only a negative thing however since its catering to a very specific portion of the playerbase rather then designing a system that works well for everyone simply to try to force people through grindy and boring checklists to partake in other parts of the game.

If you are the type of player who only likes PvE, WvW or sPVP(and/or tPvP) and never indulges in any of the other 2 modes then you have essentially locked yourself out of multiple potential daily's. This is a problem only because the limited amount of daily's that now exist, if there were another 3-4 choices it'd be less of a problem, but as it stands either you'll have to go out of your way to get that ambient/ascalonian/krytan/orr/maguuma/shiverpeaks killer(seriously who the ♥♥♥♥s enjoy's killing these things?) or make your way over to WvW and kill some people/cap some camps wether you think that's fun or not.

And that's the problem in a nutshell, some players - because they don't like the same things you do - have to choose between either not doing the daily or doing something they dislike just to finish it.

If it is true what you said foxbat then I feel like it was a stupid design goal to begin with and would explain why I suddenly can't get my daily's done anymore without having to spend 30min grinding boring ass daily events I hate doing.

Edited by Senatic, 10 May 2014 - 04:17 PM.


#10 I post stuff

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 04:59 PM

View PostSenatic, on 10 May 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

Spoiler
I started my session at 2/5 today, did nothing but sell P1 AC for several hours, completed daily. I don't know what was in it, but am darn sure it didn't require a lot of diversity.

#11 davadude

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 05:02 PM

They need the game to randomly choose 15 daily achievements each day.  5 from Player versus Environment, 5 from Player versus Player, 4 from World versus World, and 1 random or very specific.  That way, anyone who seriously plays the game one day gets the 5 dailies.  They may also want to make an extra reward for people who complete all 15, like extra laurels or gold.
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#12 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 05:31 PM

View PostFoxBat, on 10 May 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

One of the stated goals of the daily system (behind all that region-specific things) was to concentrate the playerbase so there'd be more interaction. A bit like the old Zaishen quests, which yes basically told you what to do rather than rewarding you for doing anything. Another was to change up what people were doing everyday, to discourage them from grinding the same thing over and over. With the daily categories balooning they probably weren't having these effects anymore, so that could be part of the reason for the reduction.

Uniting people around daily reviver and ambient killer is just plain counter-productive though, and they ought to garuntee at least one content-specific category (either a region or dungeon thing) if that is their intent behind the system. Right now it's just looking like a push to get more people into wvw/pvp where completing the daily is generally faster.


But then again, dailies were initially designed around the idea of allowing casuals to catch up: they were there to give an extra reward to the first 20 or 30 minutes of play. And with the megaserver in place, that is absolutely something I'd love to see a return to.

#13 Satenia

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 06:55 PM

While I actually like that they merged the PvE and PvP categories, the very narrow selection of dailies is now quite limiting for someone not participating in all three categories - PvE, WvW and PvP.

Personally, I'm mostly a PvE player and while I do the other two things at times, I certainly don't wish to do so daily. With the new system, I can just about squeeze in five achievements to complete the daily, but there isn't really that much to pick from anymore. On the contrary, I have to keep far better attention to what I'm doing so it "fits" the daily achievement.

That they removed stuff like gatherer from not being always there anymore is a big minus in my book. It were achievements such as these that really qualified as "I just got this while playing anyway". Having decently equipped lvl 80 characters by now, doing something like 3 SP's per day is really not something I would just happen to do other than through completing dungeons and getting a lot of xp.

Don't like it, would absolutely love to see a rework or at least get more options per day.

#14 Senatic

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 08:29 PM

View PostI post stuff, on 10 May 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

I started my session at 2/5 today, did nothing but sell P1 AC for several hours, completed daily. I don't know what was in it, but am darn sure it didn't require a lot of diversity.

Your point being that you needed to go out of your way to finish more than half of the daily even though you spent hours playing the game your way? Even if that wasn't the case (if I misunderstood your post as it was a bit unclear to me what you were getting at), not everyone will have done exactly what you enjoy doing.

All you need is some empathy and the capability of putting yourself in other players shoes to understand why this system doesn't work well for everyone. But if you can't see past your own situation then you're never gonna get it.

You are saying you did what you like and got the daily,

I'm saying I did what I like and didn't get more than 1/5 daily in almost 5 hours of play today. Now you can keep saying over and over that "I don't have a problem" and all I'll say is, I'm glad for you. But it's not working that well for me.

Edited by Senatic, 10 May 2014 - 08:32 PM.


#15 FoxBat

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:13 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 10 May 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

But then again, dailies were initially designed around the idea of allowing casuals to catch up: they were there to give an extra reward to the first 20 or 30 minutes of play. And with the megaserver in place, that is absolutely something I'd love to see a return to.

Yes I remember that, and I also remember being ticked off when the new system gave less XP and required you to go places or do things you wouldn't want to do as a newbie. I feel like they did sacrifice that when the dailies started rotating. Not sure how much of an objective that is now, with few new Western players, and them being required to choke off XP after X hours a day in China.

#16 I post stuff

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 12:39 AM

View PostSenatic, on 10 May 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Spoiler
You read wrong. I completed more than half of the daily while selling AC. I'll give you more, just now I completed the daily again while running to a personal story location on my Thief.  it.

I don't have to go out of my way to complete it; I just play normally and at some point the reward will appear.

Oh, and in case you're wondering where I got it to 2/5... I have no idea!

Edited by I post stuff, 11 May 2014 - 12:43 AM.


#17 RandolfRa

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 03:57 AM

Do you really need to do the daily every day though? It only rewards you with a single laurel which is not worth more than 1.2g.

#18 Cube

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 05:59 AM

I don't see the problem, I'm happy the way it is because I now can do the daily much quicker. I don't have the whole day anymore so this is nice for me. There's nothing prestigious or hard work about the daily and there never was, so why not make it easier to help out the casual players is my thought.

#19 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:33 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 10 May 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Yes I remember that, and I also remember being ticked off when the new system gave less XP and required you to go places or do things you wouldn't want to do as a newbie. I feel like they did sacrifice that when the dailies started rotating. Not sure how much of an objective that is now, with few new Western players, and them being required to choke off XP after X hours a day in China.


Aye, I think the problem with dailies is that they were initially designed to cater to casuals and then, after A.Net realized that they lack an end-game, their focus shifted towards giving the grinders a reason to log in. That's why I liked the idea of the daily being easy to do (which caters to the casuals), and then having a bunch of things that can be done for extra AP (which caters to the grinders). Or, they should simply make a new hardcore daily and leave this one to the casuals.



View PostCube, on 11 May 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

I don't see the problem, I'm happy the way it is because I now can do the daily much quicker. I don't have the whole day anymore so this is nice for me. There's nothing prestigious or hard work about the daily and there never was, so why not make it easier to help out the casual players is my thought.


As I said, the problematic part is the part where they reduced the options and that part isn't helping the casuals.

Edited by Baron von Scrufflebutt, 11 May 2014 - 08:33 AM.


#20 Senatic

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 09:26 AM

View PostI post stuff, on 11 May 2014 - 12:39 AM, said:

You read wrong. I completed more than half of the daily while selling AC. I'll give you more, just now I completed the daily again while running to a personal story location on my Thief.  it.

I don't have to go out of my way to complete it; I just play normally and at some point the reward will appear.

Oh, and in case you're wondering where I got it to 2/5... I have no idea!

Quote

Even if that wasn't the case (if I misunderstood your post as it was a bit unclear to me what you were getting at), not everyone will have done exactly what you enjoy doing.


#21 I post stuff

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 02:32 PM

Players that can't be bothered to do most of the content shouldn't get the same rewards as those who do. Just like players that do one particular thing should get more rewards than people who do it casually.

It's that simple. I shouldn't have to explain that to people.

#22 Beyond Freedom

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 03:23 PM

View PostI post stuff, on 11 May 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

... players that do one particular thing should get more rewards than people who do it casually.

People that only kill centaurs should get more rewards than people who only kill centaurs casually?

#23 I post stuff

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 03:53 PM

View PostBeyond Freedom, on 11 May 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

People that only kill centaurs should get more rewards than people who only kill centaurs casually?
Pretty much. They should get more out of killing centaurs so much than people that kill them on their way from point A to B.

Edited by I post stuff, 11 May 2014 - 03:55 PM.


#24 Senatic

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 04:41 PM

Yeah, cus your way of playing the game is more valid then my way? Because...? It's your way?  Right. Makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. Great logic mate, your way is the only right way and everyone else should get shit for their efforts.

Today I spent 4.5 hours in game. I did a lvl 49 fractals, did the fire elemental as well as the golem mark II, and a ori/ancient node run on my main.

After all that I'm 3/5 and now I have to go finish 2 more daily's because the game has decided I didn't do what is the "proper" things to be doing.

Edited by Senatic, 11 May 2014 - 08:22 PM.


#25 Cube

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:00 AM

I just looked, and I thought only it reduced the numbers in each category so I apologize for my first post. I am now forced to do things I don't want to if I want to reach my daily. Sigh. I don't know, where do they make these decisions? Who thought this was a good idea?  There's no right or wrong way to play the game. In my opinion the daily should never change, it should be ALL the different things you could do each day, every day, so that everyone can get their daily. Whether they are playing WvW, PvE, or whatever else.

#26 raspberry jam

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:51 AM

I think that the new daily system is horrible.

Then again I thought that the old system was horrible, as well as the one before that, as well as the idea of daily quests at all.

GW1 Zaishen quests were fairly well done, sometimes.

#27 Cube

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:59 AM

View Postraspberry jam, on 12 May 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

I think that the new daily system is horrible.

Then again I thought that the old system was horrible, as well as the one before that, as well as the idea of daily quests at all.

GW1 Zaishen quests were fairly well done, sometimes.

They were great, I still love them and do them to this day. Unfortunately I don't see this being anywhere as fun as it is in GW or even really possible. In GW2 nobody can do the storyline instance anyway unless you have it in your quest, whatever it's called in the top corner of your screen. There's no fun social(cough) instanced things to do unless you do dungeons.

And I only picture the ZQ where you kill a boss is just gonna be another ultimately boring zerg killing a boss, people getting there too late so they wait for respawn repeatedly.

#28 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:21 AM

View Postraspberry jam, on 12 May 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

I think that the new daily system is horrible.

Then again I thought that the old system was horrible, as well as the one before that, as well as the idea of daily quests at all.

GW1 Zaishen quests were fairly well done, sometimes.


In my opinion, GW1 ZQuests felt better because they were about forcing players to do content, whereas a number of GW2 dailies is about forcing players to do non-content: you end up having to do content that the game otherwise doesn't care if you are doing, or even worse, doesn't even want you to be doing (ambient creatures being the perfect example: there is a reason why they have no HP and give no rewards upon death).
But to implement such a system, one first needs to have content that one can tie them to and that's exactly what GW2 lacks.

#29 Zhaitan

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:30 PM

For me, only two problems w/ unification are:
  • Less options to choose 5 from
  • Only one chance of getting a black lion salvage kit per night instead of two
This game needs a whole new creative direction.

#30 raspberry jam

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:57 PM

View PostCube, on 12 May 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

And I only picture the ZQ where you kill a boss is just gonna be another ultimately boring zerg killing a boss, people getting there too late so they wait for respawn repeatedly.
I thought this was funny because of the thing that Gaile said way back around GW1's release about how the instanced world meant you would never have to wait to kill a boss. The GW2 faq on the wiki have a question about boss camping, but the answer doesn't actually address the whole waiting for bosses part.

Now I'm not saying that instanced was better than persistent but, you know, it was.




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