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Will we see more Zerk conent in the future?


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#1 I post stuff

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 12:57 AM

Basically, title (which I misspelt, fml).

The next update will obviously bring a new dungeon and/or a raid boss or two but how zerk-friendly do you think it would be?

Looking at Pav, it seems that anet is still fine with maximum dps-oriented gameplay but that could've been unintentional.

I'm not trying to say it would be bad, but after 2 or so years it's possible that the content would start to become a bit harder to just DPS through. Even though as far as dungeons go, superior dodging and reflecting skillz may remain the name of the game.

Thoughts?

Edited by I post stuff, 22 June 2014 - 08:10 PM.


#2 RandolfRa

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 02:35 AM

Since mobs have no AI it is difficult to design such "non-zerk" content without using artificial tricks like armor checks or making the mobs immune to critical damage. Perhaps bunkers could serve a role in some sort of node holding game similar to spvp that you'd play against swarms of mobs.

Edited by RandolfRa, 22 June 2014 - 02:36 AM.


#3 Robsy128

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 02:46 PM

Who says they're adding a dungeon/raid? Did I miss something somewhere?

Also, unless they revamp the combat system and mob AI, we're still going to have a superior team of warriors being faster than everything else out there when it comes to dungeons.

I'm still trying to get over the fact that we've been stuck with the same dungeons for 2 years :o

#4 I post stuff

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 03:42 PM

Well with the new zones being released and another dungeon being half coded for two years its a fair guess that there will be a new dungeon at least. I also doubt that they won't give us a raid boss to chew on.

Zerk has been around for too long and I personally feel very discouraged to spend any money on it simply because anet might kill it in the next patch. It's hard to say. Some may argue that because everyone has zerk now on every bit of armor it's unlikely that anet will nerf it, but then who knows right?

Looking at dungeons such as CoE or Arah that favour zerk over everything else it seems that the new dungeon might be the same. At the same time we have stuff like Teq and Wurms that can't be crit (certain phases only for wurm). Fractals are zerk only too.

Edited by I post stuff, 22 June 2014 - 08:09 PM.


#5 Moharis Frostreign

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 04:23 PM

I could potentially see mobs with very high toughness but are susceptible to condition damage (i.e. Partially Digested Husks) show up a little more, but that'd be something they could really only use sparingly. Could you imagine a boss with that mechanic? With the current condition caps it'd be an extremely long grind and, more importantly, probably not fun.

As far as the zerker meta goes though, I know the discussion has been going on forever. It's just not going to go away without a huge overhaul of boss and dodge mechanics. If they want a game without predefined roles, this is the direction it'll take.

#6 Nikephoros

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:50 PM

So long as you have the ability to dodge and utilize reflects, all content is zerk content no matter what.

#7 ben911993

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:52 PM

View PostNikephoros, on 22 June 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

So long as you have the ability to dodge and utilize reflects, all content is zerk content no matter what.

This is the sad reality of it. The way all other aspect of combat are balanced, zerk trumps everything, barring mechanics made specifically to work against it, like mobs that can't be critted.

I'd really like to see combat reworked a bit to make condition builds and tank builds more viable and worthwhile, but for the foreseeable future it seems like zerk is the only way to go.

#8 Scorpion

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:29 PM

View PostI post stuff, on 22 June 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Well with the new zones being released and another dungeon being half coded for two years its a fair guess that there will be a new dungeon at least. I also doubt that they won't give us a raid boss to chew on.

Zerk has been around for too long and I personally feel very discouraged to spend any money on it simply because anet might kill it in the next patch. It's hard to say. Some may argue that because everyone has zerk now on every bit of armor it's unlikely that anet will nerf it, but then who knows right?

Looking at dungeons such as CoE or Arah that favour zerk over everything else it seems that the new dungeon might be the same. At the same time we have stuff like Teq and Wurms that can't be crit (certain phases only for wurm). Fractals are zerk only too.

This is what I'm worried about as well, just came back after a break and I have a lot of Laurels left, but I'm not sure what to use it on. I don't want to get something and turns out it's not as effective anymore. We all know how time consuming it is to get ascended accessories.

#9 Bryant Again

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 10:48 PM

I don't have much of an issue with it. The concept of "zerking" doesn't offend me, as the "glassiest", or riskiest approach should be the most rewarding. Is it not "glassy" enough? Is most of the combat lacking a large amount of "risk"? Maybe yay, maybe nay, but I don't have any issue with it.

I also don't have much issue with the "all damage go" approach, it ties into how GW2 eliminates the need for specific classes or roles. I'd rather they just make that more challenging and interesting. It's just very jarring go into GW2 expecting it to contain anything from its predecessor.

When it comes to damage in PvE, I'm much more concerned about the way conditions play. Amongst all the other features in PvE, the way conditions work stick out like the sorest of thumbs.

Edited by Bryant Again, 22 June 2014 - 10:51 PM.


#10 ilr

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 06:31 PM

View PostRandolfRa, on 22 June 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:

Since mobs have no AI it is difficult to design such "non-zerk" content without using artificial tricks like armor checks or making the mobs immune to critical damage. Perhaps bunkers could serve a role in some sort of node holding game similar to spvp that you'd play against swarms of mobs.

Some actual AI would be NICE, atleast the Gw1 level where there were "Armies" that traveled together, had defined Front & Backline support, and in the case of Stone Summit or a few Factions armies, actually kept themselves "Up" against unorganized pure DPS pubs.  .... But the problem even there, is that no matter of A.I. can really get around the "Herding" tactic.  ....For that you specifically needed some of the more "prickly" ability mechanics in GW1 such as HolyWrath, WARDS, HealingSeed, Reversal, Mark of Protection, botted interupts, botted enchant Strips, Fingers of Chaos which was basically "the AI cheating" but on a long attack interval.  ...Or even worse, the crazy crap Maleux did which could basically be labeled "Shut down every Meta ever and force people to Glitch the Cutscene to win".

As for WHY you need lots of Minions in the mix instead of one single giant Boss.... well that was obvious and covered in the Last thread:  Boiling everything down to 1 single boss tends to completely cut most Non-Meta builds out of any team roles at all.  Not only that, but the Main reason that "ZERK WERKZ" is because the Boss has one array of Attacks all on Rote memorized intervals and all you have to do is dodge them meaning that damage mitigation is no longer part of your Stat based planning.   In order to fix that, Bosses would need the ability to make half a dozen really small fast and difficult to dodge attacks in one second or less .... basically like Shiro who teleported around slashing everything like a blender on cocaine


They COULD be doing this too.  We've seen plenty of evidence that they can and have been adding tons of new mob abilities, pathing, and mechanics on-the-fly  (just look at Adventure Box mobs...)

Edited by ilr, 24 June 2014 - 06:37 PM.


#11 RandolfRa

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 07:17 PM

View Postilr, on 24 June 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:

, Bosses would need the ability to make half a dozen really small fast and difficult to dodge attacks in one second or less .... basically like Shiro who teleported around slashing everything like a blender on cocaine

This kind of unavoidable attacks could easily end up being just an armor (or even dps) check though. In gw1 you had healing and protection spells to counter play this kind of attacks. In gw2 you really don't have anything else but your own private dodging.

Edited by RandolfRa, 24 June 2014 - 07:23 PM.





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