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#1 Xar Silianthir

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:45 AM

As we all know, that MMO games are different every year, and some people willy-nilly have a different view on some things.
Years ago MMO games wasnt that big, as it's today.

That's why i would like to start this topic:
to let people tell for what kind of guild/group in 2014 they're usially looking for in Guild Wars 2?

1) How many people should be in your dream guild/group?
2) How many of them should be online in the morning/afternoon/evening?
3) And how many of them (in the morning/afternoon/evening) should use VoiP?

Edited by Xar Silianthir, 14 July 2014 - 02:16 PM.


#2 Phineas Poe

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 05:28 AM

1) 500. It's the only sensible number to have. It's the most one can have in a singular guild, meaning you can maximize your opportunity to do large-scale content like Wurm and Tequatl without relying on TTS. And believe me, it's a lot more fun doing that kind of stuff as a singular guild than relying on randoms/multi-guild communities. It's also a large enough number to allow you the opportunity to diversify what kind of content you do as a guild. With 500 members you can have your dedicated WvW raiders, your PvP tourney regulars, and your dungeon/fractal frequenters. Perhaps this is achievable with less than 500 members, but the more the merrier in my book.

2) I would expect to achieve the above you want to prioritize prime time hours with at least 100 concurrent players online during primetime hours. But the ideal in my mind wouldn't just mean recruiting players that solely participate during the NA primetime hours (or in others' cases, EU). It helps to have a late-night crowd and an early-morning crowd so that your guild chat is always moving and, more to the point of your third question, maintaining an active Teamspeak. So I guess if I had to put an "ideal" number on it, I'd say 30-45 online in mornings, 50-95 in the afternoon, and 100 or more during evenings. I'd say special events like patch days should reach over 150 members, as that way if there's enough interest we could pile in and create our own overflows for areas like Dry Top and create our own T4 maps.

3) More than those that don't. I assume you mean using VOIP as not just logging into Teamspeak but actually talking as well, and outside of dedicated events like WvW and Tequatl/Wurm. We have 175 slot TS which never fills. For a 500-man guild with a fairly refined process for vetting inactives, we get 200+ unique players online over a 24 hour period on a near-daily basis. So I consider a ~25% Teamspeak attendance rate to be pretty good. Ideally I'd like more, but expanding our server beyond its current capacity would be pretty expensive. To hope for a 100% attendance rate on Teamspeak would be pretty absurd. Ideally I'd say 40% of the guild should actively use Teamspeak, with distributions relatively equal to numbers posted previously: 15-20 in the mornings, 25-40 in the afternoon, and 60-75 during evenings. Spread out amongst channels.

Edited by Phineas Poe, 15 July 2014 - 05:36 AM.


#3 Ensis

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 05:45 AM

I prefer having a smaller guild. Sure, the large guilds are great for people who really like to maximize their time in dungeons and more elite areas, but I would rather play with a close group of friends. Everyone would know everyone and the like. All the guilds I've been in recently are *giant*, which isn't really surprising since it's easy to blind invite anyone to the guild. It's so much harder to get my ideal guild up and running.

:(

#4 Phineas Poe

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:44 AM

View PostEnsis, on 15 July 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

I prefer having a smaller guild. Sure, the large guilds are great for people who really like to maximize their time in dungeons and more elite areas, but I would rather play with a close group of friends. Everyone would know everyone and the like. All the guilds I've been in recently are *giant*, which isn't really surprising since it's easy to blind invite anyone to the guild. It's so much harder to get my ideal guild up and running.

My guild is gigantic, and is perhaps one of the most active singular guilds in the game, but it has hardly to do with blind invitations. We deliberately target dedicated players that sink a certain number of hours a week into the game. They're allowed to be new and/or inexperienced, but they have to be willing to learn and to be on Teamspeak when someone is teaching them content. But even so, I've rejected people with over 10,000 AP because they don't match my expectations or our interests.

So understand just because a guild is large, that doesn't mean they're necessarily open admission. But even if such were the case, selectivity doesn't necessarily mean successful, as our size in many respects is in large response to the amount of content that ArenaNet creates. Over the past nine months they've been pushing so deliberately toward large-scale organization in open-world raid bosses like Tequatl and Wurm, and in Living Story content like the Marionette, the Scarlet fight, Boss Blitz, and Dry Top. I think it would be pretty daft and/or disconnected with the game's core to try and remain a small-time guild when the game churns out large-scale event after event.

Being in a small guild means not being able to coordinate this kind of content as a guild and simply just leeching off TTS, or worse, some mindless mass of PUGs to participate in large-scale content rather than grow a guild where they can do it themselves with their names on the door. And while that kind of stuff may not be important to a lot of leaders that are looking for that close-knit feel, it is important to a large percentage of the player base that wants the security net of a large guild when participating in this type of content.

To participate in stuff without knowing the names of the commanders, without knowing anyone else participating in the events ... just kinda gives me the illusion of picking up and eating the scraps of other guilds. I certainly didn't like that about TTS and Wurm, which is why I helped push my own guild to get a few of our own kills as a guild without a single TTS member on the map.

The other reason is the implementation of the megaserver in PvE. Being in a 15-man guild right now kind of sucks, because there's absolutely no server identity any longer. The only solidarity establishing any regularity with those you interact with on a day-to-day basis is your guild. I'll recognize some SoR guilds in the open world. I'll see members of [AxA], [FIRE], and [HALO] in my Dry Top maps, but in many respects the effects of being a part of a server community is substantially diminished, which makes being in a small guild a relatively lonesome experience for the average player. Guys have joined us giving us stories like this, of how boring or lame the game is outside of a large, active guild.

It'd be like trying to participate in a 10-man guild during the days of 40-man WoW raids. The size of your guild has to match the content that you do.

Edit: Typos. Early morning, I guess.

Edited by Phineas Poe, 15 July 2014 - 07:07 AM.


#5 Ensis

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:59 AM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 15 July 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

They're allowed to be new and/or inexperienced, but they have to be willing to learn and to be on Teamspeak when someone is teaching them content.

Ah, yeah. Good point. I think I may have boiled the situation down too much. I suppose it may be because I have never really encountered many guilds like your in Guild Wars 2. Most of my successful guilds came from my time in GW1, which, like you said, is a very different beast.

#6 Phineas Poe

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:14 AM

View PostEnsis, on 15 July 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Ah, yeah. Good point. I think I may have boiled the situation down too much. I suppose it may be because I have never really encountered many guilds like your in Guild Wars 2. Most of my successful guilds came from my time in GW1, which, like you said, is a very different beast.

Well I think that goes back to just what kind of content you're interested in within Guild Wars 2. If you're not concerned with the idea of controlling your own Dry Top overflow, I'm sure the idea of being in a 500-man guild would feel excessive.

Most guilds that are dedicated dungeon runners almost never reach that size given the fact that there are no instances in this game that require more than five players. And to have to train so many recruits would be daunting to say the least. So guilds like [Ren] and [DnT], despite still being PvE-focused, don't ever end up as large.

It's all about the content you wish to focus on. I just think some guilds should be more realistic about the needs of their members and the health of their "close-knit" culture (or its value to newcomers).

Edited by Phineas Poe, 15 July 2014 - 07:15 AM.


#7 Satenia

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:32 AM

1.) Around 20 ppl.
2.) I'd only care about primetime aka evening times, at which point something like 10+ players would be nice.
3.) Not really required for the current content, so I wouldn't care about that.

As to the above numbers, I prefer a small guild where I know everyone and get to play with them regularly. I'm doing dungeons/fractals mostly, so I'm looking for something like a small/fixed core of players sharing the same interests. Over time, I know how/what they are playing and that helps smoothen the runs.

To me, being as independent as possible is an important factor when playing a game and I feel GW2 currently comes about as close to that as possible for being a MMO. Most open-world content can easily be done solo (and alongside randoms), while the 5-player size for instanced content means that even with small guilds or a few friends you're already good-to-go.

Lastly, regarding "large-scale" events such as Tequatl and Wurm: Before they re-adjusted the timers, we had a daily Tequatl-group going consisting out of about 20+ regulars, them being the commanders and turreters. This core-group ensured smooth runs even when the rest of the map was complete strangers and without the use of a TS. Personally, I don't see why I would have to drag my whole guild along for this, but I guess that boils down to personal preference.

#8 davadude

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:44 AM

1) How many people should be in your dream guild/group?
1

2) How many of them should be online in the morning/afternoon/evening?
1
3) And how many of them (in the morning/afternoon/evening) should use VoiP?
No, the idea is, if you need to use VoiP/teamspeak/skype to give orders or communicate, it's already too complicated for most players to understand.  Text should be enough.  Beyond that... use guild chat for social stuff.  Prevents you from splitting the guild into voip/non-voip.
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#9 Neo Nugget

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:08 AM

View Postdavadude, on 15 July 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

No, the idea is, if you need to use VoiP/teamspeak/skype to give orders or communicate, it's already too complicated for most players to understand.  Text should be enough.  Beyond that... use guild chat for social stuff.  Prevents you from splitting the guild into voip/non-voip.

That reminds me of people spamming WvW chat to try to get people on vent or TS. I understand that certain commanders prefer to use it for their own reasons, but it is absolutely not required by any stretch of the imagination. I remember I had this one guy hound me for not being in TS while I was commanding. He kept listing reasons why I needed to get on, all while captured tier 3 towers from the enemy.

It was great.

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#10 davadude

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:47 AM

View PostNeo Nugget, on 15 July 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

That reminds me of people spamming WvW chat to try to get people on vent or TS. I understand that certain commanders prefer to use it for their own reasons, but it is absolutely not required by any stretch of the imagination. I remember I had this one guy hound me for not being in TS while I was commanding. He kept listing reasons why I needed to get on, all while captured tier 3 towers from the enemy.

It was great.

Exactly, the thing is... half of the people won't do it, and if your orders are so complex they cannot be performed by text or simply following, they're simply too complicated for a majority of players in any game.  The tier 3 example reminds me of the time I captured all of EB with a friend, splitting up.  We were being hounded by others that we both refused teamspeak.  When we left, a commander on TS took over and kept laughing at us... we lost control of EB in 20 minutes,
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#11 Phineas Poe

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:07 PM

View Postdavadude, on 15 July 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

No, the idea is, if you need to use VoiP/teamspeak/skype to give orders or communicate, it's already too complicated for most players to understand.  Text should be enough.  Beyond that... use guild chat for social stuff.  Prevents you from splitting the guild into voip/non-voip.

I understand what you're saying, but there are times where typing gets you killed. Tequatl and Wurm are both fights that require fairly precise positioning. Standing around typing your orders during phase two may result in the wurm head veering off in the wrong direction, ruining your attempt. And more often than not the reason Wurm fails is because someone wasn't on Teamspeak and didn't hear to stack in the correct spot.

And I just cannot imagine someone standing there typing 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 over and over again calling out Swirling Wind rotations at Tequatl to block tendril projectiles. This is also fairly difficult to do in fights that require constant movement like Grawl Shaman in fractals. Standing there typing out commands will result in you getting burned, and maybe hit with an arrow or two.

Speaking is simply easier than writing, and when you only have to push a button to do it, and sometimes not even that, it makes sense to call out orders than to type them out. We usually have a few people call out commands in map chat for the event commander, but the commander never does this themselves, and it's split up amongst a number of people so not one person has to stand there and narrate.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, it draws the attention of your guild toward a chat box rather than toward the boss fight itself. In high level fractals surviving Grawl Shaman has a lot to do with dodging and reading his telegraphs/charges. I cannot be bothered to type shit out in chat for people while I'm also trying to watch for him drawing his arrows. The same goes for Tequatl and his animations. I know some of you will look at this purely as minutiae, but it takes a lot of focus to catch what Tequatl is about to do next, to know when to call for guardian book heals, when to call for stability and reflects, and when to call for battery phases.

Using voice comms makes a huge difference. I know you think you're doing easily enough without it, but you'd be a far more organized zerg in WvW or group in PvE using them.

Edited by Phineas Poe, 15 July 2014 - 04:11 PM.


#12 Xar Silianthir

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 05:39 PM

It's nice to read your answers, cause it's interesting to see, that every person is looking at it a little differently :)
So I'll share my point of view now.

1) Around 70/80 players - not more

2) Morning +-10 online, or more, but it is not necessary
Afternoon Around 20, and maybe 20+ but it is not necessary
Evening 20+ / 30+

3) Morning +-10, or more, but it is not necessary
Afternoon around 20, and maybe 20+ but it is not necessary
Evening +-25/30

It's enough for me :) And happily i've got a guild with similar statistics.
Its like... I feel its a good number of players, cause u can do almost everything with them ingame, but still its not that big, and u can easily know them all - remember their nickanmes, who they're etc etc. They're not anonymous :)

I remember when i had 40+ online / 60 (all players), and it was really 2much ;-;
25/30+ online seems to be enough

Edited by Xar Silianthir, 15 July 2014 - 05:52 PM.


#13 MCBiohazard

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:17 PM

Voice chat is a direct conduit for better or for worse. Depending on your personal experiences with it, it can be an invaluable tool or a source of unneeded frustration. Some people don't mind using it as an organizational tool and some are even outgoing enough to draw attention to themselves as an entertaining and friendly vocal personality as well. And that can make guild and large scale event runs very efficient and very fun. But then there are the occasional mouthbreathers and histrionics that can ruin it for everyone. Somebody with sociopathic tendencies forcing you to VoIP or get out can produce the opposite effect of the above. Sometimes it breaks down into argument or drama as people try to talk over each other. Sometimes it can get nasty with insults and offensive slurs or jokes being thrown about. And sometimes you simply just don't want to have to listen to a voice that is grating to your ears for whatever reason. There is enough exposure on either side of the spectrum to make a case for VoIP or not. But it really should be up to the individual to decide whether they want to buy in.

#14 Xar Silianthir

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:15 PM

In my guild there's no rule, that forces people to use VoIP. IMO VoIP exists for humans - it is to help them, and let them talk easly - if they want. Also we're roleplaying, so often people prefer to hear some music or stuff like that - to have a better gaming experience. But also we've got no problem with activity on TS3. There's always 10+/20+/30 people - but they're using it, cause they like it :)

#15 Konzacelt

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:50 PM

One.

I'm the only one left in my guild.

#16 Phineas Poe

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:28 PM

View PostKonzacelt, on 15 July 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

One.

I'm the only one left in my guild.

I heard your guild went to Wildstar. I'm sorry.

View PostMCBiohazard, on 15 July 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

Voice chat is a direct conduit for better or for worse. Depending on your personal experiences with it, it can be an invaluable tool or a source of unneeded frustration. Some people don't mind using it as an organizational tool and some are even outgoing enough to draw attention to themselves as an entertaining and friendly vocal personality as well. And that can make guild and large scale event runs very efficient and very fun. But then there are the occasional mouthbreathers and histrionics that can ruin it for everyone. Somebody with sociopathic tendencies forcing you to VoIP or get out can produce the opposite effect of the above. Sometimes it breaks down into argument or drama as people try to talk over each other. Sometimes it can get nasty with insults and offensive slurs or jokes being thrown about. And sometimes you simply just don't want to have to listen to a voice that is grating to your ears for whatever reason. There is enough exposure on either side of the spectrum to make a case for VoIP or not. But it really should be up to the individual to decide whether they want to buy in.

I'd say that's a sign of poor leadership if voice chat gets out of hand. Voice chat is really just an extension of guild chat.

#17 Konzacelt

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:38 PM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 16 July 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

I heard your guild went to Wildstar. I'm sorry.

Don't be sorry lol.  They are happier than peaches in a pie over there, I'm glad they are having fun.  It's not like guilds matter all that much in GW2 anyway, players identify by their servers in GW2 more than they do their guilds.  I hardly glance at guild tags anymore.

#18 MCBiohazard

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:22 PM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 16 July 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

I'd say that's a sign of poor leadership if voice chat gets out of hand. Voice chat is really just an extension of guild chat.

And not very many people are good leaders. So I prefer an opt-in policy rather than mandatory participation.

#19 ExplosivePinata

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:17 AM

1, 2, 3...12

Edited by ExplosivePinata, 17 July 2014 - 02:20 AM.


#20 Gerroh

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:01 AM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 15 July 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

1) 500. It's the only sensible number to have. It's the most one can have in a singular guild, meaning you can maximize your opportunity to do large-scale content like Wurm and Tequatl without relying on TTS. And believe me, it's a lot more fun doing that kind of stuff as a singular guild than relying on randoms/multi-guild communities. It's also a large enough number to allow you the opportunity to diversify what kind of content you do as a guild. With 500 members you can have your dedicated WvW raiders, your PvP tourney regulars, and your dungeon/fractal frequenters. Perhaps this is achievable with less than 500 members, but the more the merrier in my book.

When I read that sentence, I thought you were being satirical. It is utterly nonsensical to assume any given number is "the only sensible number to have".

I prefer a smaller guild, and when my guild had around 120 members with 40 or so on at primetime, many found it to be pushing the limits of what they enjoyed; too much chatter, too much noise. Sure, you can turn guild chat off, but many prefer to have a small idle chat going on now and then and a more tight-knit community. Thankfully, most of my guild got bored of guild wars a few months after we hit that point, so the guild promptly died and the day was saved.

I also enjoyed knowing most of my members, rather than just seeing "Oh, you're in the guild, too" and one thing I didn't like about the guild growing so fast when it did was that there were tons of people I didn't know. I wasn't complaining, it was just unusual for someone who had led a <20 guild for five years prior.

#21 Phineas Poe

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:47 AM

View PostGerroh, on 17 July 2014 - 03:01 AM, said:

I also enjoyed knowing most of my members, rather than just seeing "Oh, you're in the guild, too" and one thing I didn't like about the guild growing so fast when it did was that there were tons of people I didn't know. I wasn't complaining, it was just unusual for someone who had led a <20 guild for five years prior.

You know what I don't enjoy? Being in a WvW zerg with a bunch of randoms. Going to Tequatl kills where I don't know who got Tequatl's Horde. Going to Wurm kills where I don't know any of the commanders. Having to constantly use the LFG tool to run dungeons because there aren't enough people online. Having to tourney PvP with absolute strangers that don't use VOIP.

These are things I simply don't ever have to do or deal with. You say you dislike that you didn't know your own guild members, but I'd much rather play with guildies I don't recognize than absolute strangers I'll never know. And yes, it's sometimes with people I don't recognize. Meeting new people is fun. Getting to know people I'll actually meet again is even more so.

I was being somewhat facetious when I said that having 500 members is the only sensible number to have, but I genuinely think that Guild Wars 2 is a game that is made better by being in a large, active guild. So often you read on Guru comments that Guild Wars 2 is not a game designed around guilds, but I think those people misunderstand. I think players have just allowed themselves to think that things like Wurm and Tequatl are server events that no individual guild can confront. That the Living Story is just mindless zerg content. And this simply isn't true.

Guild Wars 2 is a much better game when you're a part of a community you can rely on, when you're in a community that has both veterans and newcomers, where players have the safety net of a large guild that is almost always going to fill a dungeon group when advertised, and to know that everyone can be held to the expectation that they're (1) not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s and (2) will use Teamspeak if the content demands it.

I am not the leader of my guild, but I am in many respects the second-in-command. When the guild leader is not online, I and another person pretty much assume his duties whenever we're around. And part of that means actively recruiting and interviewing players, kicking inactives, and getting to know members of the guild and fostering their growth. Do I recognize every account name on our roster? I cannot say that I do. But I'd like to think that every guild member knows mine, and knows most every officer's name, and knows that we have their back when there's a dispute.

Are we tight-knit? The leadership and regular members are. And I think that's what matters at the end of the day.

Edited by Phineas Poe, 17 July 2014 - 06:15 AM.


#22 SZSSZS

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:50 AM

View Postdavadude, on 15 July 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

No, the idea is, if you need to use VoiP/teamspeak/skype to give orders or communicate, it's already too complicated for most players to understand.  Text should be enough.  Beyond that... use guild chat for social stuff.  Prevents you from splitting the guild into voip/non-voip.

View Postdavadude, on 15 July 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

Exactly, the thing is... half of the people won't do it, and if your orders are so complex they cannot be performed by text or simply following, they're simply too complicated for a majority of players in any game.  The tier 3 example reminds me of the time I captured all of EB with a friend, splitting up.  We were being hounded by others that we both refused teamspeak.  When we left, a commander on TS took over and kept laughing at us... we lost control of EB in 20 minutes,

I'm not sure complexity has anything to do with it. Typing out even the simplest instructions may take too long when you're calling out dodges for instance. Reaction times would simply suffer.

In sPvP, typing will easily lead to instant death, or at best momentarily distract.

I agree that people shouldn't harass others over its use. In WvW, and the game in general it is by no means a necessity, but it definitely has its benefits.

Edited by SZSSZS, 17 July 2014 - 07:52 AM.


#23 davadude

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:52 AM

View PostSZSSZS, on 17 July 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

I'm not sure complexity has anything to do with it. Typing out even the simplest instructions may take too long when you're calling out dodges for instance. Reaction times would simply suffer.

In sPvP, typing will easily lead to instant death, or at best momentarily distract.

I agree that people shouldn't harass others over its use. In WvW, and the game in general it is by no means a necessity, but a convenience.

Yeah, my response was mainly aimed at PvE and WvW, where you can get hundreds of players at once.  sPvP is obviously different, you have a few people, and in that case, it's easy to get something going for map callouts or orders.
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#24 Cube

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 05:10 PM

To answer your question, about 50 max for myself.

That's enough people to do some guild missions, enough people to organise a dungeon run a few times a week, enough people to stand around chatting if you feel like it.

I absolutely hate big guilds, they are "quantity over quality" all the way, and my experience is that they are absolute crap to be in. Mainly because they have the leaders who are a small group with officers, they are all the core of the guild and they are a close knit group. Then other groups form within the guild. Which is what I don't like. If you are in neither of those groups, you are just a number in their guild.

The other questions I can't really answer besides when it would be nice people are online, which to me is whenever. As I've bad working hours I don't get to be online at normal times either way.

#25 MCBiohazard

MCBiohazard

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:26 PM

I realize I butted in about the VoIP without giving my take on the OP. Go me. Although these days I don't have enough time to commit to any guilds at all, in one other game (City of Heroes), I had my platonic ideal for a guild.

1) It was a medium sized guild of about 25-50 members but spread out over three full servers because the game encouraged rampant altoholism and every member had that disease bad.

2) Because the game also allowed alts of any level to team with each other seamlessly, as long as there were 8 of us around, we could have a full running team no matter what time of day it was. Somebody who wanted to form a team would start one, holler in coalition chat and people would just join in with whichever alt they were interested in at the time and play. This was my big hope for GW2, that in addition to the downscaling by zone, there would be some kind of sidekicking system where a team could run at the level of the team leader so that lowbies wouldn't feel the need to have to rush to max level to get any kind of teaming going at all. In fact, I wish this sort of feature would be adopted for all multiplayer games that are level based because it really lets friends actually play together regardless of varying amounts of time sunk into the game. It is such a simple concept but nobody in the industry seems to have rediscovered it again since City.

3) As I've mentioned above, I prefer VoIP as an optional feature of any guild, not something that is necessary. I prefer text chat and most content does not require so much coordination that text or even text macro commands wouldn't be enough to convey instructions. City was very easy to play so it was never a requirement there.

As GW2 by design doesn't allow the kind of ad hoc teaming that my ideal guild was built around in CoH, I suppose I would still be happy with a guild that was just large enough to reliably provide teaming for the content I would like to do but not much larger than that. Enough people interested in doing dungeons occasionally, open world completion, casual WvW participation and guild activities would be just peachy. I've never been interested in massive raid type events like Tequatl or Jungle Wurm so I wouldn't really like to be in a massive guild where I couldn't recognize most of the names.




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