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#1 aurora2

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 01:51 PM

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So i just started this thread to be able to discuss Fallout 3, put up screenshots, videos, ect... :)

I just started it yesterday. First i thought that i won't like it, but it looks promising now.
I found alot of familiar things from Oblivion, like the talking with an NPC style, character voices, ect... My first thought was that it's a modern Oblivion :D

Also i really enjoy this V.A.T.S. thing ;)

First, i have a question for those who played it already: How long is the game? Is it just the big storyline or are there also side-storylines? Is it worth to just adventure? Are there interesting things to be found?
Also should i get the expansions? :)

#2 Yokohama

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 02:22 PM

There is alot of side quests actully and they are kind of easy to find to.
One thing you really should look for is the crashed spaceship. You get the most awesome gun in the game there... Except  the fatman that shoots 8 mininukes. :p

Edit: Oh and i think the V.A.T.S system is kinda boring. The run and gun thing suits me better. :)

Edited by Yokohama, 13 November 2010 - 02:25 PM.


#3 aurora2

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 02:39 PM

Maybe i find the V.A.T.S. interesting, because i haven't used it too much yet :)

Sadly, i can't log into Games for Windows LIVE at the moment.. i think their servers are down...

#4 Eanny

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 04:48 PM

the VATS is excellent for shooting mobile targets at short and medium range. for "snipping" you will get better results by aiming yourself.

My advice for fallout is to play it twice : once as a good character and once as a bad one. You will have new quests ... almost like a second game ;)

My second advice would be to play New Vegas after that. This one is even better : you have more choices, more factions and each story is interesting. I am currently in my second run as a "no so good" guy (I played the nice girl the first time) and I am really having a good time.

#5 DuskWolf

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 05:12 PM

Yep, New Vegas is incredible. It's Black Isle, it's old Interplay, it's everything one loved about RPGs, back when RPGs were Arcanum, Planescape, and Mask of the Betrayer, it's everything one loved about mods like Ruined-Tail's Tale and Wesley's character mods for Baldur's Gate. It's high brow. It's about character, story, setting, and atmosphere, it's about making you think and feel. It has very little to do with loot-whoring. It's absolutely nothing at all like recent Bethesda and Bioware RPGs.

Whether that makes you happy or sad on the inside is up to you, different folks look for different things in RPGs, so YMMV. But for me, this makes me grin from ear to ear, and fills me with a warmth that few games do.

Edit1: And if you do check out the PC version, you can also take a nose at my mod list right here on Guru. It's a list that's designed to remain as faithful to the vanilla game as possible, expanding upon it and enhancing only where necessary, without harming the feel or balance of the game.

Edited by DuskWolf, 13 November 2010 - 05:33 PM.


#6 Qehb

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 06:50 PM

Been there done that,

was an alright game, bit over-rated though if you ask me.

#7 Winterclaw

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 10:48 PM

Good game, bad ending.  I need to go back and play the DLCs.
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#8 Infamous

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 11:05 PM

New Vegas has a better story, but both games have a very short campaign with thousands of side missions.

Just playing through without focusing on exploration (but still doing all my side missions I found), It took me 36 hours to beat New Vegas.

#9 DuskWolf

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:09 AM

(DISCLAIMER: This post has FALLOUT 3 SPOILERS. But that's not such a big deal because Fallout 3 had an incredibly crap ending.)

Yep, but New Vegas' main mission is actually affected by about 80% of the side missions, the ending you get can vary quite radically depending on what you did and how you did it. With Fallout 3, there were just basically two endings, either everyone got the water, or the Enclave got the water. In New Vegas there are literally hundreds of possible combinations of modular ending pieces, and therefore the side missions in New Vegas actually have a link to the main campaign.

That's something that Fallout 3 didn't have. Fallout 3 was like... self contained bubbles of very short stories, it was like lots of little bits of DLC all scattered about, they had a beginning, and a short ending, but no impact at all on the main campaign. That's actually one of the reasons I like New Vegas so much more, it rewards you for exploring, and it provides you with consequences for all of your actions, a great many of which are reflected in the ending.

That almost every town and settlement is mentioned in the ending, that every companion you've found is mentioned in the ending, all of that mounts up. And that makes for a better experience than "Oh, you got water for the wasteland... yay." or "Oh, you got water for the Enclave... yay." which is pretty much how Fallout 3 ended.

So everything in Fallout 3 was so incredibly disconnected, and nothing you did mattered really because of that. It didn't matter at all that you went out and did side-quests, there was next to no motivation for doing so barring perhaps some 'loot' (loot is never a big motivator for me). Whereas the motivation in New Vegas is that everything you do will have a lasting effect, which you'll see both in the game and in the ending. So whilst Fallout 3 and New Vegas do have some superficial similarities, New Vegas is the superior game in just about every respect.

#10 Scorpion

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 01:31 AM

Qehb said:

Been there done that,

was an alright game, bit over-rated though if you ask me.

Pretty much what I was thinking.

#11 Jexx

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 01:37 AM

Scorpion said:

Pretty much what I was thinking.

..why?

Why reply to a topic that you aren't going to provide substantial conversation to?

#12 Zetta

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 01:52 AM

DuskWolf said:

(DISCLAIMER: This post has FALLOUT 3 SPOILERS. But that's not such a big deal because Fallout 3 had an incredibly crap ending.)

Yep, but New Vegas' main mission is actually affected by about 80% of the side missions, the ending you get can vary quite radically depending on what you did and how you did it. With Fallout 3, there were just basically two endings, either everyone got the water, or the Enclave got the water. In New Vegas there are literally hundreds of possible combinations of modular ending pieces, and therefore the side missions in New Vegas actually have a link to the main campaign.

That's something that Fallout 3 didn't have. Fallout 3 was like... self contained bubbles of very short stories, it was like lots of little bits of DLC all scattered about, they had a beginning, and a short ending, but no impact at all on the main campaign. That's actually one of the reasons I like New Vegas so much more, it rewards you for exploring, and it provides you with consequences for all of your actions, a great many of which are reflected in the ending.

That almost every town and settlement is mentioned in the ending, that every companion you've found is mentioned in the ending, all of that mounts up. And that makes for a better experience than "Oh, you got water for the wasteland... yay." or "Oh, you got water for the Enclave... yay." which is pretty much how Fallout 3 ended.

So everything in Fallout 3 was so incredibly disconnected, and nothing you did mattered really because of that. It didn't matter at all that you went out and did side-quests, there was next to no motivation for doing so barring perhaps some 'loot' (loot is never a big motivator for me). Whereas the motivation in New Vegas is that everything you do will have a lasting effect, which you'll see both in the game and in the ending. So whilst Fallout 3 and New Vegas do have some superficial similarities, New Vegas is the superior game in just about every respect.
Fallout 3, however, had Liberty Prime.

Which, IMO, is the most awesome giant robot ever.

#13 DuskWolf

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 05:18 AM

Zetta said:

Fallout 3, however, had Liberty Prime.

Which, IMO, is the most awesome giant robot ever.

This is true, Liberty Prime was pretty hilarious.

#14 aurora2

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:43 AM

Hm... i had some problems yesterday... the game was crashing every time when i loaded a savegame and also crashed at random places...
Interesting is that disabling the autosaves was the solution O.o

Also i found my first big ugly Mutant... I couldn't kill him with weapons, then i put a lot of frag mines near a truck and while i was running around it, the mutant set off every mine in this way :D

By the way, how many skills is it worth to try to max? I suppose i can't do it with all...

#15 donoro

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 03:56 PM

I have played both. I agree that the main story is more complex in New Vegas, giving many variants.
Although i found F3 pack many more 'content' (arts, music and songs, locations, interiors, side quests, etc). Every single map spot has something to discover.
Overall F3 is richer and bigger, its seems to be made with another kind of budget.

And that only with the original game, if you add the DLCs, you get another big load.

Edited by donoro, 15 November 2010 - 03:59 PM.


#16 DuskWolf

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 06:22 PM

It only feels that way because Fallout 3 has a map that's actually half the size of that of New Vegas. This is a complaint I've seen a lot, and I've had to actually explain this to people before they notice. If you look at the map of New Vegas, it's actually around 50% (or more) bigger. Overall, New Vegas actually has more content, but because of the greatly increased overworld map size, the content is more spread out.

However, because all the content isn't packed together like trinkets in a broom closet a la Fallout 3, people assume that it has less content because they have to walk further between content spots. This isn't the case. It's more that Obsidian knows a thing or two about spacing and pacing. In Fallout 3, you couldn't walk two or three steps without bumping into some little self-contained quest or other (that, as I said, has no impact on the main storyline). It was all crammed in there, like sardines in a can. New Vegas, on the other hand, goes for a more believable world.

Obsidian are known for believable worlds. There are ex Black Isle and Interplay people working for them, in fact, these are actually a lot of the people who worked on Fallout 1 and 2, so they know the lore. Something that Bethesda didn't. I think that some Fallout 3 fans were confused by New Vegas because it was so different. It didn't have the bloody Leetclave for one thing (thank goodness for that). And even better was almost all of New Vegas, everything about it, plot, content, and everything was based on Van Buren, the canceled Interplay Fallout 3 game. In other words, New Vegas is the true sequel, whereas Fallout 3 is just a side-story. In New Vegas, we get to see the continuation of many key players from Fallout 2, like the NCR.

The world is definitely more rich in New Vegas because it builds upon all the lore of Fallout 1 & 2, something that 3 didn't. 3 actually largely ignored that lore. The Enclave in 3 weren't even actually the real Enclave (this is something that the game itself admitted), and it generally felt like it was put together by people who really just didn't know much about the Fallout Universe. It was messy, and there was no real plot there aside from 'PURIFY THE WATER', which had the player meandering around doing things which were completely unrelated to the main mission (unlike New Vegas, where, again, a lot of the side stuff ties into the main story).

The thing is, Fallout 3 might've had perhaps a few more quests overall, but when you consider the quality and length of New Vegas quests, it doesn't matter. A New Vegas quest is worth about 10 of the Fallout 3 fedex talk to/kill type quests, to be frank. There are some pretty long sidequests, even. Hell, the only sidequest in Fallout 3 I can think of that even comes close to matching the vast variety of sidequests in New Vegas was Moira's quest. But all the other sidequests were really short, little bite-sized things that really had no impact on the world. They didn't matter. Whether you did them or not didn't matter. Again, the polar opposite of New Vegas.

The average sidequest in New Vegas is about as long as Moira's, but even better is that the writing is there. Everyone knows that Obsidian has some of the best writers in the industry, and it shows. The variety of the quests is amazing, you even actually get to spy on people, which is something that never came up in Fallout 3. And there's the trick, there's a vast variety of quests in New Vegas, there are all these different things to do. You can talk, or scheme, or puzzle your way out of many things. More than you could in FO3.

So, you have a bigger map, you have longer quests, you have a larger variety of quests, and generally you have a better game, there. Where I think you're coming from with saying that you feel the 'arts' are better is that you've never played Fallout 1 or 2, not ever, and that you started off with 3. So you have no idea of how galling the Leetclave were (with their silly pointy helmets) to old fans like myself. For you it's the reverse, you saw the Leetclave first (the Leetclave being a mainstream-ised version of the Enclave), and to you, the Enclave remnants look silly and old-fashioned. But the game is set in a cultural 60's, so things are supposed to have a retro-future thing going on.

The Leetclave really always looked far, far too futuristic to actually fit into the Fallout 3 world. I think this is why Obsidian prioritised actually getting proper Enclave armour into the game.

So this is where we differ. I know the game from the lore rich background of Fallout 1 and 2, but the changes are just confusing to you, so you think that it looks 'worse', despite it actually looking correct. New Vegas was very much a Fallout 1 & 2 crowd pleaser, it was also a very intelligent and high brow game in general, less with the fedex quests and all, less black & white situations, and a more believable world... it was less an accessible game in the form of Fallout 3. Fallout 3 was very accessible in that you only had to walk two steps for content.

And I can say with honesty that since New Vegas took all of FO3's assets and added to them from there, that New Vegas obviously, from a logical standpoint, has a lot more variety in its locations. :p I mean, really. That one should be obvious to anyone, since they had everything from Fallout 3 to work with. They didn't remove any location types, they just added a bunch of their own. So there's absolutely no way, objectively speaking, that the game could be less varied. That's impossible.

And just to wrap up and prove my point...

"Every single map spot has something to discover."

C:

See? That's a typical Fallout 3 mindset. Walk two steps, oh look, THING. Walk two steps, loot. Walk two steps, loot. Walk two steps, fedex quest. Walk two steps, fedex quest. Rinse and repeat. Whereas Obsidian went for less of a kleptomaniac's game, and more of a real world. In a truly believable world you just don't have everything all packed in right next to each other as you did in Fallout 3. There's far more to discover in Fallout: New Vegas, overall. You just actually have to explore to find it. You have to put in a bit of legwork. You have to walk more than two steps, yes.

And as for the budget? It's funded by Bethesda, so it has the same kind of budget. New Vegas is the game that's richer and bigger from where I sit, from the incredibly well explained reasons above. To say otherwise just seems ludicrous to me, but again, I think what this comes down to at the end of the day is Fallout 1 & 2 fan versus Fallout 3 fan. And for a Fallout 3 fan, they're going to be hating on any game that doesn't have the Leetclave.

"if you add the DLCs, you get another big load."

*cough.*of dung*cough.*

Edit1: In fact, I'll let people decide for themselves which has the better art direction.

Leetclave:

Posted Image

Enclave:

Posted Image

:p

Edited by DuskWolf, 15 November 2010 - 06:32 PM.


#17 Wothan

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 06:26 PM

DuskWolf said:

The Mother of all Text Walls

Dusk you are really getting better and better lol

#18 Trismegistus

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 06:32 PM

I bought this game from a friend just a week ago for 5 bucks and I have to say I'm lovin it! It's a pretty good RPG and I now understand why people liked it so much. However, I still prefer Oblivion.

#19 DuskWolf

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 06:32 PM

Wothan said:

Dusk you are really getting better and better lol

I have to be. :p The appreciation of decent, high brow RPGs these days is dying in favour of mindless grinding loot fests. It irks me.

#20 Jexx

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:20 PM

DuskWolf said:

Awesome Text

This argument sounds like it very much applies to Guild Wars v.s. WoW also. Many people say that the GW world is small compared to WoW's Azeroth. It's actually much much much larger.

#21 donoro

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:53 PM

Obsidian or black isle means nothing to me, they could have done marvels in the past, i don't care. Actually i remember playing long time ago Plasnescape Torment, but old games are old. People go and come, and company names, are just 'names'.

As for F3, you have just big memory holes : Quest with the 'Ghoul City' (underworld) at the old museum,  the 'Treeman' and the druid tribe (the oasis), Quest with the ants and little boy, quest with the ants vs robots, line of quest at the old plane carrier (rivet city), quest with the slavers, Tempeny Tower, Republic of Dave, Little Lamplight (kids city), a bunch of Vaults to visit, and so on ..

I don't negate that New Vegas is better written and more cohesive, but not as extended or varied as F3.

Overall i was bored with NVG reaching the end of the plot, all the side quest follow the same schema, all the interiors look the same, very little art research, poor musical score, very few 'oddities' and secondary  gimmicks and stories. I never find the same 'magic' of finding totally odd places.

#22 aurora2

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 02:56 PM

Dr. Red's operation went wrong:

Posted Image

#23 Adul

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:34 AM

Fallout 3 is a decent game in its own right, and even though I have to agree that it does not feel very much like Fallout, I certainly wouldn't dismiss it as a bad game. It had plenty of content, great quests, clever imagery, and it felt like a true Bethesda game at its best.

The thing that was really outstanding for me about the game were the DLC's. Fallout 3 DLC's did exactly what a game expansion is supposed to: provide additional game content through new, innovative gameplay elements. They got inspiration for each DLC from movies, books, and other games, made each of them unique. This made sure I didn't get bored while playing through them and always had me keep an eye out for the next one. The two exceptions were Broken Steel which expanded upon existing game content, and Mothership Zeta which in my opinion was just a poorly designed, foe-heavy dungeon lacking true content (which is a shame considering all the awesome possibilities an alien invasion DLC could have had).

Edited by Adul, 18 November 2010 - 01:36 AM.


#24 Zetta

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 03:14 AM

Yeah. Zeta was a cool concept, but it was badly executed. I was disappointed at the finale. I'm an explosives freak, so I'm glad it added the Cryo Grenades and Mines.

#25 DuskWolf

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 04:16 AM

Zetta said:

I'm glad it added the Cryo Grenades and Mines.

You know...

The data for the cryo grenades/mines is still in the NV esm and bsa files, in fact, all of the Mothership Zeta resources are. And you're working on an explosives mod.

Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?

#26 Kamatsu

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 05:41 AM

Just a quick Q about the quest's in F3 - from someone who has the game but never really gotten that far in (it always bored me, and the constant crashing put me off).. but do the quests in FO3 offer you options and various different ways to complete them?

Like in NV there's a quest revolving around 3 captured NCR solders.. where you have the option to either kill the NCR troopers or kill the legion solders and untie the ncr soldiers (and thus rescue them alive). Also considering Primm where you have multiple options of how to deal with it - leave it as it is, get a sheriff from somewhere else, use a robot as the sherrif or get the ncr to take over.. Or the multiple options with the Ghouls who want to go to their holy ground.. you can help them, help them even more, sabotage them or help someone else sabotage them.. or convince that person to not sabotage them.. (sabotaging them will kill them..).. or the multiple options of how to deal with Helios 1 (power to ncr, power to wider field, power to all, something else or blow up the power station..), etc and so on..

I've been thinking of re-installing FO3 and getting some mods for it and trying to get through it again.. mainly because of all the fun I'm having in FO:NV and the varied way of completing a whole lot of the quests I've come across.. and because I never got far in FO3.. don't know if the quests are all basic no-options type quests.. or if they are similar to NV where you can complete them multiple different ways.. (and yes, i realize that it would have no effect on the end of FO3.. but still...)

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#27 Adul

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 08:25 AM

Quests in FO3 usually offer you at least 2-3 different options as to how to complete them, but it's not as well-executed as it is in New Vegas. In NV, the different options really feel different, in many cases you are doing completely different things depending on what path you have chosen, while in FO3 choices usually have a smaller impact (with a few exceptions like the Megaton Bomb quest or Broken Steel).

#28 Alot

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 11:45 AM

I've read that the one of the system requirements for Fallout: New Vegas is 2GB RAM. Yes, I've got that. But, how good will the performance be if I'm using 2GB, because the recommended amount of RAM is 3GB. Does that mean my performance will be terribad?

Edited by Alot, 18 November 2010 - 12:34 PM.


#29 Kalivan

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 12:04 PM

DuskWolf said:

Yep, New Vegas is incredible. It's Black Isle, it's old Interplay, it's everything one loved about RPGs, back when RPGs were Arcanum, Planescape, and Mask of the Betrayer, it's everything one loved about mods like Ruined-Tail's Tale and Wesley's character mods for Baldur's Gate. It's high brow. It's about character, story, setting, and atmosphere, it's about making you think and feel. It has very little to do with loot-whoring. It's absolutely nothing at all like recent Bethesda and Bioware RPGs.

Whether that makes you happy or sad on the inside is up to you, different folks look for different things in RPGs, so YMMV. But for me, this makes me grin from ear to ear, and fills me with a warmth that few games do.

Edit1: And if you do check out the PC version, you can also take a nose at my mod list right here on Guru. It's a list that's designed to remain as faithful to the vanilla game as possible, expanding upon it and enhancing only where necessary, without harming the feel or balance of the game.

Wow you got all that from New Vegas? I can't think of the game as more then a should be fallout 3 expansion or reskin, although still a good game im highly disappointed it couldn't bring anything new to the table.

#30 Zetta

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 12:06 PM

DuskWolf said:

You know...

The data for the cryo grenades/mines is still in the NV esm and bsa files, in fact, all of the Mothership Zeta resources are. And you're working on an explosives mod.

Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?
I can make it, but I can't publish it.  Nonetheless, I don't recall seeing the explosion graphics in the GECK. I won't make a mod like that until actual cryo stuff is in New Vegas.