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What if... there are no professions


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#1 Guardian of the Light

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:41 PM

Simple question. With all this speculation about professions, it got me wondering, what if there are no professions in Guild Wars 2 but instead a ton of attributes? So basically you can use any attribute, any weapon, and any skill but your still limited by the whole 8 skills thing.

Would it be cool? or would people hate it?

Do you even care?

#2 Mordakai

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:45 PM

Well, there will still be race specific skills, right?

I could envision a system with Race being like "Primary Profession" and then all other skills would be open...

Not sure people would like it, though.  It's a fine line:  people like choices, but they also want to feel unique.  If everybody can have the same skills, does that take away from uniqueness, or add to it?

#3 Loat

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:45 PM

It'd be workable, just about, and would save you the need for a million character slots. But can you imagine how confusing it would be to create a character as a new player and instead of the initial 4 attribute lines you have in GW as a character with no secondary, you had 40?

#4 Mordakai

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:48 PM

Loat said:

It'd be workable, just about, and would save you the need for a million character slots. But can you imagine how confusing it would be to create a character as a new player and instead of the initial 4 attribute lines you have in GW as a character with no secondary, you had 40?

Yeah, that would be bad...

Professions add order to the chaos, and are probably necessary.


Even without professions, people would still make "Healers", "Buffers", "Nukers" and "Tankers".  So, I'm really not sure what it would accomplish...

#5 Simath

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:51 PM

I would laugh. A lot.

#6 Kurpitsa

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:54 PM

I wouldn't like this.

But the suggestion that there are no professions, where the race and the "group", or whatever it's called, are what makes your character what it is, sounds pretty nice.

I would still like a normal profession system.

#7 Mathos Ragnar

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:55 PM

Simath said:

I would laugh. A lot.

Lol QFT

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#8 Ashre

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:05 PM

I like the idea of it, but it just seems too unorganized?

I just prefer specific professions to pooling everything together. It would also confuse new players and possibly drive them away.

#9 Astrogator Jones

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:20 PM

I'd rather still have professions, but I do like the idea of race being the only "fixed" unchangeable aspect. That would make racial skills/bonuses far easier to tolerate.

#10 Vaal

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:26 PM

This would mean we would have far more norn and char than anything else.

Think about the number of W/Mo's there were compared to the number of Mesmers there were way back in april 2005.

#11 Gigashadow

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:33 PM

This is an interesting idea, and supports the whole "Players can wear any piece of armor they want".  Maybe you would need to put points into a related attribute to be able to wear certain types of armor.

#12 Nodyi

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:37 PM

I like Chaos. <3

#13 Joiry

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:57 PM

People seem to make all sorts of bizarre assumptions on how a non-class system would work.  There are many ways to do this, and just because a few indy MMOs have tried and failed at classless skill systems, doesn't mean its a bad idea or too difficult.

The key is organization and limitations.  If done right, it can make balancing easier, because balance has to be achieved within a particular attribute line/skill, not say "class A has X advantage, but Y weakness" - that thinking really is the heart of the nerf/buff cycle.  Its funny how everyone claims a classes system is too hard to balance, yet every dang class system out there has constant nerf/buff cycles (depending on how much effort the devs of a game put into it).  

People also seem to assume such a system has unlimited points, and you could make a character that "does everything".  Again, the key is proper limits.  Even if you took the old GW1 system (which won't be the GW2 system), and could choose any attibutes, you still only have 300 pts to spend (and say limit to 1 primary attribute).  Of course, most casters would choose soul reaping and bring signet of lost souls - but that's an issue with soul reaping not the system overall (see above, self balancing).

As for it being confusing, you can always offer "template classes" for those looking for the standard roles.  These are just pre-selected suggestions for how to spend you points.  This is leaves the more flexible system for those that want it.

Having said all that, I think GW1's duel profession system, with how you can reassign attribute points and skills in outposts, and switch secondary profs gives a system which is fairly close to an open, classless skill system.

#14 Mordakai

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:15 PM

Joiry said:


Having said all that, I think GW1's duel profession system, with how you can reassign attribute points and skills in outposts, and switch secondary profs gives a system which is fairly close to an open, classless skill system.

Agreed, one of my favorite things about Guild Wars.

#15 Eximiis

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:38 PM

They could make primary profession like in GW1 but have more skills in these primary lines. Then make it that you can also use alll other non primary skills from other class with some kind of penalty.

Making a class benefit more from is primary att then the secondary att.

ex: Warrior with some STR skills + signet of malice (assassin) + armor of sanctity (dervish).

Make it primary warrior skills can go up to 16 pts. secondary up to 12 pts and other profession skill up to 9. This way you lose some quality in othe profession skills but you keep the high benefit from the warrior skill line.

just an idea !

#16 Turtle Freak

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:56 PM

As already mentioned, we sort of already have an open system since you can switch your secondary anytime you want.  If we had an open system, they would have to set it up in a tree structure so that if you wanted access to these attributes, you must have a certain number assigned to these attributes, and so on.  To take a non-Guild Wars-related example, if I want to have flute skills, I have to have a certain skill level in music first (or simultaneously).

The two-class system is kind of an abbreviated form of this.  Given a relatively small maximum number of attribute points, even with an open system, you're still kind of limited to what you can do.  The two-class system has a similar limit but groups related attributes together to keep things simpler.

One thing that would be really nice is if character model is independent of class.  Then they could allow players to switch their primary class as well, and then anyone who still complains would have to be written off as just plain picky.  ;)

#17 Shew

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:57 PM

From the official FAQ:

Quote

Guild Wars 2 is a whole new game with different professions and races, new technology, and expanded gameplay.

There'll be professions.

#18 Teebs

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 06:04 PM

This is kind of along the same lines as the other crazy guy's suggestion about not having professions. I don't like this idea. It would make things too complicated and would make me go insane, and besides I'm pretty sure ArenaNet has already stated that they would have Professions.

#19 Briar

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 06:04 PM

From what I have been hearing a classless system is actually more likely to happen than the profession system what with the "everyone can use the same armor and weapons" announcement.

It actually annoys me allot to be honest with you :mad:

In GW1 in PVP I could easily predict the skill sets of my opponents as a Mesmer just by the armor they were wearing and could cast skills accordingly.

(ie empathy on anything wearing plate ect)

Whats going to happen when the healers start dressing like necromancers
(hopefully there is a big enough incentive so that healers at least look like healers)

And with a classless system i will not even get my [Mo/Me] heads up :qq:

Edit:

Quote

Guild Wars 2 is a whole new game with different professions and races, new technology, and expanded gameplay.

Yay at least I get to keep [A/E] (or something similar) :D:D:D

Edited by Briar, 11 September 2009 - 06:07 PM.


#20 HawkofStorms

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 07:41 PM

http://www.guildwars...sions-t963.html

Kinda already have a very active thread about this already.

#21 Epoch

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 07:44 PM

Shew said:

From the official FAQ:



There'll be professions.

/thread

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#22 Gigashadow

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 07:46 PM

Attribute based instead of profession based effectively just gives you 2-3x the number of professions.  So maybe bowman and gunner are actually their own professions, rather than having just a ranger with bow and gun attribute lines (as you wouldn't use both bow and gun skills at the same time anyway).  Similarly, axeman, swordsman, spearman could be separate professions, rather than just being attribute lines within warrior or paragon.  For this to be user friendly you'd need to be able to change your primary profession too.

#23 devosion

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 08:50 PM

A no profession system could work under the right circumstances, but I feel would end up being too chaotic and unmanageable for new players.

#24 Sha Noran

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:47 PM

Lol, what if there are no graphics?!

Some things just aren't going to disappear from Guild Wars.

#25 Randy

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:50 PM

so.. you want runescape

#26 Phoenix Tears

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:52 PM

Guardian of the Light said:

Simple question. With all this speculation about professions, it got me wondering, what if there are no professions in Guild Wars 2 but instead a ton of attributes? So basically you can use any attribute, any weapon, and any skill but your still limited by the whole 8 skills thing.

Would it be cool? or would people hate it?

Do you even care?

If Anet would really be so crazy to make such a way too hard change to the game's gameplay, then I really hope good for ANet, that they won't screw the Character Development of the game, so that GW2 won't again like GW1 poop out only Wannabe Classes...

When Anet decides to make no professions at all, then theres also no need anymore for the retarded 2Class-System and its way better to make such a System together with a Single Class System, as choosign now in GW2 also between playable Races is complicated enough then for keeping the game balanced.


I want GW2 to be a game, that really offers their players to create all thinkable stereotypes of Classes to be playable, which also have all then their own different gameplay concepts that make them unique over all others to play and which will also all then look, move and act differently from each other.

That has ANet totally screwed with GW1, so I hope they do with GW2 it better this time

#27 Jabberwock

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:16 AM

Randy said:

so.. you want runescape

Because sharing a single feature means that it the games are equivalent?

Geeze, I had no idea I've been playing Everquest the entire time.

#28 dakka dakka

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:25 AM

Maybe the profession/Armor system will work something like the system used in Dungeon Runners, I think that would be interesting IMHO.

Though I don't know how the skills would work for that.

#29 Randy

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 01:42 AM

i mean the whole no profession concept, he wants the runescape profession version because he wants better graphics fro mGW2 but dosent want to commit to a charachter to any one profession

Edited by Randy, 13 September 2009 - 12:19 AM.
clarification


#30 Naoroji

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 03:09 PM

Randy said:

i mean the whole no profession concept, he wants the runescape version ebcause he wants better graphics but dosent want to commit to a charachter to any one profession

Ahh, yeah, because Runescape's graphics are better,... Wait, whut?