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Member Since 04 Oct 2011
Offline Last Active Apr 29 2013 04:23 PM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Taking the R out of RPG

06 March 2013 - 07:23 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 06 March 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

I'm sorry, is my crying on the internet upsetting you?


Hey man I'm just trying to help you enjoy the game a bit more. This lack of roles thing seems to have you upset. I haven't once called you a noob or directly told you to quit. I said the game may not be for you if you can't change your perspective. Quitting is up to you.

I honestly think you'd be happier if you would let go of GW and take GW2 for what it is. There are plenty of other issues to chew over than arguing about one of the pillars of the game. "No one profession is absolutely necessary in any given situation" is foundational to GW2. Griping about it is as useful as complaining about water being wet.

I played a feral druid in WoW, pretty much though almost all of vanilla, until I quit in Cata. Feral in vanilla WoW is the definition of going against design intent. Well, if you can call how blizz designed them at the time as having any intelligent intent.

View PostEl Duderino, on 06 March 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

I guess you wouldn't be interested in a game of chess then, huh?

You realize that is counter to your point right? The pawns aren't going to be whipping out any new combination of skills to take a rook. If used well they might take a rook, but both players have access to the exact same set of abilities (pieces) at the start of a match. Without even the window dressing we get in MMOs.

In Topic: Taking the R out of RPG

06 March 2013 - 05:33 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 06 March 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Please let me borrow your time machine.


So just a bit more than 10 months. Didn't bother to look it up when I said it. But it's closer to a year than not. :-P

In Topic: Taking the R out of RPG

06 March 2013 - 05:15 PM

View PostXPhiler, on 06 March 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Sorry I dont agree, 99% of this game content is definitely not soloable especially by every class. Some group events an champions are soloable true if you know what you're doing but certainly not all and and certianly not world/legendary bosses. Pretty sure Dungeons and fractals arent soloable either certainly not by all classes dont believe a necro or an elementalist can solo any of them.

Quick note on this, and I wish I had the video to prove it. The wife and I were screwing around in CS the other day, and the two of us did the entire Grenth chain up to the priest by ourselves. Between us and the NPCs we got him to 50%, only failing when we both happened to be caught at the same time by drop portal spam. They ran Jonez off right as we got back from rezzing. While that isn't solo I think it proves the point.

Unless there is some gimmick that requires two players to do something simultaneously it is possible to solo it. Some are way harder than others, to the point of impossible. But if you are good enough it can be done.

In Topic: Taking the R out of RPG

06 March 2013 - 05:04 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 06 March 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

I appreciate you telling me that I need to change my perspective. Apparently we can't all play the game the RIGHT way which apparently you do?

I would say the right way to play a game is the way that makes you happy. If the game doesn't do that, you can go play something else. Or go cry on the internet.


You're right, I have played this game for over a month now, have leveled my first alt to 80, done dungoens, PvP and WvW. Clearly, I don't know the game at all.

A month! I suppose I must now bow to your vast experience. I've been playing for what is getting close to a year. You are obviously way quicker than I am. I only know my thief well, and warrior sorta ok, the rest of the professions I'm still learning. Nope no depth there.


I think you are failing to see that in your martial arts example, you leave out all of the important things that make MMO's fun for many people - which is the use of skills outside of DPS.

If I wanted to buy a martial arts game, I would have bought Street Fighter. Instead, I bought an MMORPG - which, back to the scope of this thread, meant that I assumed that it would have some sort of difference between the classes, other than different ways of dealing damage.

First off you didn't understand the example. The point was expert players are creating complexity out of the "limited" skills available. New players, say people who have only been playing a month, are most likely still spamming skills on CD instead of watching for the best time to use them. I can promise you with absolute certainty you haven't sussed out all the possibilities from the mixture of traits and utilities across all the classes.


I appreciate, too, that you are so self righteous that I must watch a scene in a movie that has nothing to do with this game until I "get it", which apparently means that there is something for me to get which is some big secret that I am apparently missing out on in life.

It's not self righteous to point out a cinematic fight that closely resembles a good boss fight in GW2. Once again, you missed the point. You have the troll as the boss with adds, the team kites the boss while eliminating the adds, then they proceed to take turns whacking at the boss while dodging most of it's big attacks. You even have two people get downed and revived. One on his own and another when his friends touch him.

What you DIDN'T see was one of the fellowship gather up the troll and the adds, then pin them in a corner, thus allowing the rest of the team to flail away with spells for 15 minutes while one of the hobbits threw healing spells. Because that would be boring. It would be boring on screen, and it's only slightly less boring in a game.


But, I'm glad that you eventually agree that every class can do a little bit of everything. In my world, that means that all the classes lack any genuine diversity, which means that they are really pretty much all the same when you look past the illusion of how they deal damage, nuke or regenerate health. Because, how they do it isn't relevant when they can all do it.

This is a distinct change from GW1 which is the only other real MMO that I know, where in order to have a diversity in skills, you needed a diversity in classes. If you wanted to use diversion, you needed a mesmer. If you wanted to gale, you needed an elementalist.

But, apparently, I need to go "get it" before I can continue to speak on these forums because I simply do not have the depth and breadth of knowledge and experience you have. So I will humbly bow to you, oh great master of the MMORPG. For I have committed a grave error in speaking my opinions on a forum.

Oh you can speak on these forums. But you really need to pull that broomstick out when someone tries to help you understand the game.

Every MMO's gameplay is DPS or DPS enhancement hiding behind various skills. Healing is important because dead players have 0 DPS, tanking is important for minimizing distractions to the DPS, including death. CC? Keeps things still so you can DPS more either through preventing player death or enhancing damage. MMOs have always been about what flavor of damage you want to do. How a class goes about doing it is actually critical to how the game feels while also still letting anyone play whatever profession they want to play.

Being different from GW1 isn't a crime. You like it, I didn't. I was in game for exactly as long as it took me to realize I couldn't jump or move while attacking. It's a trivial reason, but it's all I needed. I'm sure I missed out on some fun gameplay because I couldn't change my perspective. Just like you are sour on GW2 because you can't seem to understand that GW2 is its own game.

I urge you to get to know your 80, get to know the other classes and how they can compliment yours. Do more dungeons, especially the ones with well designed bosses. You'll find more depth than you thought was there, and you'll find group composition greatly affects HOW you complete group activities in this game, but it will never affect IF you can complete them.

The game leaves that up to the skill of you and your teammates. That is what makes it awesome.

In Topic: Taking the R out of RPG

06 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 05 March 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

I don't think it is worth getting all that upset over.

Also, I don't really believe that anyone in this games gets to to think outside the box. The box is what Anet wants classes to run, and it is shut pretty tight. The lack of skill selection pretty much ensures that fact.

I do get the fact that the changes in this game allow people to play much more casually without any real need to find specific pieces to a group. If that makes you feel like things are more flexible, I can understand that too. I suppose it is more flexible to be able to get in a group and go off doing stuff than needing to wait for a monk, or a warrior or an elementalist. But, to say that you get to think outside the box is a bit much, in my personal opinion.

You really need to change your perspective, and get took know the game better.

It helps if you think about the GW2 skill system in martial arts terms. In martial arts you have some very basic skill sets, punching, kicking, grappling, throws. These all break down into certain types of punches etc. but let's face it we haven't invented a new type of punch in a looooong time. The artistry in martial arts comes not from inventing a new punch, but in using the basics in new and interesting ways. The execution of the basic skills is what matters.

To your larger issue:

The traditional trinity has always been and will always feel artificial, because it IS artificial. Real fights simply do not work that way. GW2 fights are far closer to the real thing. The best example I've come across to illustrate this is the cave troll fight in LOTR Fellowship. Watch that scene until you get it.

Part of the role aspect you are looking for is found in the differences between the professions. Every class can nuke, heal friends a little, CC, and tank. Every class goes about doing that very differently and this includes variations within the professions based on build. The other part you are looking for is not due to the democratization of the classes, it's due to crappy encounter design.

The dungeons are way too friendly to the low-teamwork approach. Most of the boss encounters are far too static and simplistic, that is what causes the feeling of zerginess, most of the encounters just don't take any real teamwork to get them done. But hit the well designed content, and you aren't beating it without assigning roles for the fight.

An example was my guild's first attempt at the new ghost eater fight in AC. I'd read a little on it so we had a vague idea of what to expect. But it still took us a few minutes, (in between him getting stuck) to work out just how to get it done. We ended up having our tanky guardian keep the boss busy while the rest of us coordinated feeding the traps. Then we simply kited it to each and beat it down. That boss fight requires each person to know what their job is for the fight and execute it well. Trust me, it took for bloody ever for our silly asses to get the coordination on pulling the oozes correct.

Any one of us could have kited the boss, any four of us could have worked the oozes, which is a good thing. The roles you are looking for are now going to be doled out on a fight by fight basis. This is only going to get better as ArenaNet get better at designing boss encounters.