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#1921674 Level 80 needs to move beyond the Penitent Path

Posted Lyc on 12 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

There is a study (please don't insist on finding which it was, but if you do I will try to find the source) regarding selflessness in little children. Two groups of children were asked to help folding some flyers. Both got told, that the flyers are for a beneficial cause, and will help other children. Only one group was also told, they'd get a free toy if they'd help.

A month later both groups were asked again if they'd help folding flyers. No mentioning of a toy. The group that got no toy last time happily agreed. The group that got toys last time insisted on getting toys, or didn't want to fold the flyers.

#1913380 Level 80 needs to move beyond the Penitent Path

Posted Alexandriea on 10 September 2012 - 07:58 PM

For all of you telling people to recreate characters for the story..lets just say I don't want to play Traherne & Friends v2.

#1912107 Level 80 needs to move beyond the Penitent Path

Posted dakka dakka on 10 September 2012 - 04:14 PM

View PostShadowrose, on 10 September 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

It becomes a problem when doing any of that yields a lower reward than just camping DE's at Orr.

yet while you sat around being bored and waiting for the WP event to happen again I was saving a Asura from lovestruck harpies, defending ogres while they get water, exploring the catacombs to see what sinister things lurk now that the ghosts are gone.

I think my experiences are more rewarding, and in the end this is a game not a chore. When your main focus is to gain the most money for the least amount of work then you turn this into a job and are no better than the gold farmers.

just my 2 cents.

#1887138 Is Thief a one trick pony?

Posted Lord_Ironmane on 05 September 2012 - 09:30 PM

The other classes have felt more active to me, truth be told. But, take a good look at the Thief weapon skills and ask yourself "When will I ever use this in PvE?" or better "Why do I use X when I could use Y?", having the choice like that shoe horns people harshly, or at least, that's what I think. There are other builds of course, but the question is, are those builds nearly as good as the ones that spam the same effective skill over and over?

The weapon sets lack a niche like the other prof's weapons do. A Sword's only difference from dagger in the long run is that one is more AoE focused. The pistols only difference from a short bow is that one is better for AoE and applying a blast finisher.

This contrasts with, say, Guardian which has a damage focus g-sword with mobility, a hammer based around control, a mace based around defense, a sword with a balance of offense and defense, etc... the only change I feel when going between the none-shortbow sets is looks. I can see no reason to go for, say, a kiting-caltrops build when black powder is so insanely efficient that I can sit and apply it over and over again without worry. I see no reason to use any trap when I can do the same things the traps do, but without having to worry about positioning etc...

Why would I take anything but Shadow Refuge in a group when I know that it's ability to revive blows any other skill out of the water (the thing should be an elite choice)? Why take a pair of pistols when I need range in a dungeon, when the ability to apply a blast finisher applying huge buffs for my whole group is simply far far more efficient than doing a little extra single target damage? If going melee in a dungeon, why would I take anything but a offhand pistol for unshakeable mobs, when it pretty much makes my whole team unkillable? Likewise, why take anything but D/D on an unshakeable mobs since it does no doubt more damage than a Sword/anything?

#1813379 Bought a character slot expansion...and got 2?

Posted Kyris on 25 August 2012 - 04:35 AM

View PostYasuhiro, on 25 August 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

So other people can get 2 as well? Its not like they know who I am.
You're the guy who has 7 character slots

#1879425 Thief, broken class

Posted Kamila on 04 September 2012 - 06:16 PM

View PostEnzi, on 04 September 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

And this forum is absolutely no exception. I TRY to read more about the thief but it's all about 'LOOK AT MY HS SPAM BUILD', 'LAWL I HAVE A LDB BUILD'. (I haven't seen ONE cool build that synergizes beautifully like some necro builds except the build were everything is focused on backstab)

These builds are called cheesy in competitive gaming. Build will develop over time but we have to actively work on it and find ways to counter burst builds with a proper allround build that doesn't rely on usage of skills in a time window of 3 seconds.

There are those non-cheese builds that are definitely effective. Now they aren't as good as the faceroll spamming but they can be way more fun. I've personally found a Dagger/Pistol, Sword/Dagger build incredibly effective and fun. I'm running the following traits:

10 in deadly arts with mug (steal does damage)
10 in critical strikes with either side strike (7% crit chance when hitting side/back) or practiced tolerance (5% of precision converted to vitality)
20 in shadow arts with master of deception (-20% deception utility abilities CD) and hidden thief (steal stealths for 2 seconds)
15 in acrobatics (mainly because I love the passive dodging traits you get but I run with fleet shadow to get the 33% stealth movement speed)
15 in trickery (+3 initiative and making steal gain initiative is amazing, I run 15 in this line with every build) and I take thrill of the crime to make steal give might, swiftness, and fury for ten seconds.

My 6, 7, 8, 9 are hide in shadows, blinding powder, signet of shadows (smoke screen can be useful here as well since you should have swiftness up if you're stealing) , and shadow refuge. The elite can be based off personal preference.

The beauty of this build is it revolves around crazy stealthing and using whichever set of weapons you need for the occassion. Dagger pistol absolutely destroys cookie cutter DD thieves because of shadow shot and black powder. Funniest thing is watching a DD thief stealth, me put up a black powder circle, and watch his backstab and next 2 heartseekers he spam miss completely. Because I have heartseeker/backstab as well (although it does a fair amount less damage than a glass cannon thief) I can still put out good damage with it. I feel like this build embodies what those abilities were supposed to actually be because I can't wtfpwn someone like a glass cannon but I can still get off solid 3k crits.

When I face a ranged class I switch over to sword/dagger. This is where my stealths really comes in handy. Sword+stealthing = daze maniac :D I can totally shut someone down if I use my stealths correctly. Cloak and dagger obviously does great damage and allows for a stealth that doesn't put the stealth immunity timer on you afterwords (although if you have the timer on you from say hide in shadows you still have stealth immunity and Cloak and Dagger will not stealth you). After doing decent damage and having great survivability/dazes because of a multitude of stealths (C and D, hide in shadows, shadow refuge, stealth, blinding powder....), I can switch back over to dagger pistol to finish off with heartseeker burst. Not consistent 5k crits but solid 2.5-3k crits. Also because of the points in acrobatics I'm a dodging fool as well!

The alternate builds are out there and they ARE incredibly effective...but the masses prefer to go for the easy DD glass cannon build. I can't blame them because it is effective (I played around with it for a bit), but it is noobish and OP.

#1877260 Camera / control issues summed up for you reading enjoyment

Posted punio4 on 04 September 2012 - 11:49 AM


I've been asked by several people to start a new topic based on this one, which would try to lay out the problems in an organized and well explained manner. I've already made a post in the thread, but it's not as noticable and well written as it should be.

So, in this topic I will try to explain the problems that a large part of the GW2 community has with the camera and controls, reasons why they are an actual problem, and possible solutions.

A plea to the community

Before I begin, I'd like everyone who doesn't have an issue with the current camera and controls to refrain from posting how they don't have issues. That's fine and I'm really happy that you can enjoy this otherwise great game. But dismissing the problem does not contribute to the discussion, since the problem is there, with its roots in the camera algorithm. If you don't experience the problems present now, I assure you that you wouldn't notice any changes if they were made later on, or if the camera behaved differently to start with. And that's perfectly ok.

That being said, the cause of the problem, unless you have problems that would otherwise add to the current one, is not in the hardware / software / network latency. So please, don't advise people to buy a new computer / mouse, reinstall drivers / game or get a faster connection. It has nothing to do with any of those, and you will end up sounding arrogant and foolish.
So now that we have that covered, let's get busy.

The issues

If you stuck with me so far, you probably experienced some of the effects that the current camera has. Some may say that the camera is slow, or that it feels "floaty". Some people experience dizziness while playing and some will just tell you that the camera feels "off". These are all symptoms, and they are all real. But let's get down to the causes:

1) Input lag

What exactly is input lag? It is the time required from the moment you made an input (mouse movement, key press, etc) to the moment that there is a visible change on the screen.
All LCD monitors have some input lag (response time + signal decoding), so in no circumstances will you have 1:1 movement. Video options such as triple buffering and vsync also add to the input lag. The problem with the current camera is that it introduces input lag on the camera controls. That means that there is a noticable delay between mouse movement and the camera response. This is probably not an issue in itself, but a consequence of the later issues such as smoothing and inertia.

2) Negative acceleration

Mouse acceleration is a relic from the times when we had low DPI mice. It can be turned off for the OS  (not the game) in the mouse options, under the cryptic name "Enhance pointer precision", which will also remove cursor snapping to x/y coordinates (toggling this option in Windows will not affect the game, only the OS).
So, how exactly does mouse acceleration work?
If you move your mouse exactly from point a to point b on your mat and back, you would expect the ingame camera / cursor to come back to the same place. Mouse acceleration works by modifying the distance travelled according to the speed of the mouse movement. So if you moved your mouse a -> b slow, and b -> a fast, even though the distances are the same, the camera wouldn't end up in the same place.

We have positive and negative acceleration. Positive acceleration increases the distance travelled with speed, while negative acceleration decreases the distance travelled.
This game seems to feature negative mouse acceleration which is most noticable while trying to do a 180° turn. If you twitch your mouse fast enough, you won't cover the same angle as if you did a slower turn.

3) Smoothing

Another relic from the past. DPI is an abbreviation for Dots Per Inch. Or you could say Pixels Per Inch. That means that if you have a 1000 DPI mouse, you would move your cursor 1000 pixels in 1 inch. In the past, mice had lower DPI so the mouse moved more than 1 pixel per reported dot. That means it skipped some pixels. To make the movement appear smoother, some games introduced mouse smoothing (UT99 pioneered it) which interpolated the movement, adding the missing positions in between.
However, what interpolation did was introduce input lag, since it needed to capture the first few frames to smooth them out, and prediction, to predict where the game thinks you would move the mouse next. You can already see why this is a bad idea.

4) Inertia / easing

This is the bad part. Most of you have experienced inertial scrolling on your smartphones. You flick to scroll, and the screen keeps on scrolling. The same method is applied here, but with an added negative, since the camera requires some time to accelerate as it starts slow.
This is bad because the camera doesn't start moving when you move the mouse, nor does it stop moving when you stop moving your mouse. This makes camera facing really frustrating, and is especcialy bad in jumping puzzles and PvP when you are trying to make fast, precise turns, since you will almost always need to reposition the camera multiple times after the initial movement.

Try playing with the effect duration on this page. Try easeInOutCubic with a duration of 1000 ms and 200 ms. That's an approximation of how the camera easing works in GW2 with regards to the camera speed slider. Here is another example of how the camera behaves in regards to mouse movement: cursor following menu.
What we need is 0 ms of easing, that is, an instant response.

In my opinion, this is the primary reason why the controls aren't as responsive as they should be. Depending on your playstyle, you need to put in the same effort to fight the camera as you would to fight your opponents.

5) A physical camera presence in the world that even gets stuck on terrain

You might have noticed that your camera bumps into stuff. A lot. And that it drags behind your character. That's because the camera presence in the world is too... present.
You will often experience erratic zooming in when there is an obstacle near the camera, or even a camera stuck in a position while your character continues out of the shot (Try jumping over the Asuran Chess in Metrica).

6) Zooming / snapping / bouncing

A side - effect of too much physical camera presence. When climbing up/down stairs, or panning the camera in a narrow space or a one with columns, the camera keeps on zooming in and out in a very nauseating way.
If you hit just the right spot (which is often for me) the camera will keep on bounce zooming in and out until you correct it. Very irritating.

7) Narrow FoV

Now we come to the part why everyone is complaining that they don't see enough and the main cause of the nausea. To put it simple, the field of view is a degree of vision which is rendered in front of you. The default one is very narrow and people try to compensate that with zooming out, leading to more camera / terrain collision, and asking for more zooming out.

The FoV is tied to the focal length of the camera. To explain it better, here's a nice example. Your character is the red bottle in this picture. Notice how the distance to your character hasn't changed, while at the same time you see a lot more of the surroundings. The distortion effect is less pronounced on widescreen images.

The game features a dynamic FoV which can be modified with the screen aspect ratio. Here are some screenshots I made with a very close camera, but with different FoVs: When you compare #1 with #3, the difference is more than obvious. And in a real implementation, you would see more in the vertical axis as well. Notice that I have decreased the height by almost 50%, while retaining almost 100% of the scenery height-wise.

As you can see, you don't really want a camera that's further away. You want a larger field of view which should also increase on the y axis (height), which is currently not the case. Also, this fixes almost all of the nauseating feeling I had while playing.

8) Camera positioning

Try playing in a squished window (greater FoV), zoomed in over the shoulder. It's an awesome experience, which would be even better if the game featured a true over-the-shoulder camera, perhaps even a dynamic one like the one that is featured in UT3 engine 3rd person games such as Mass Effect, Gears of War, Arkham City and War for Cybertron. There is already a dynamic camera present during boss fights, but it's not really that good.
Anyone who has played, for instance Arkham City knows that you have excellent situational awareness and control in all the available camera modes:
  • over the shoulder (walking)
  • centered (running)
  • centered with increased FoV (gliding)
  • 1st person (airducts)
  • zoomed out (group combat)
That said the camera is lacking in this department in GW2. The first person PoV is a must for this game, since the game already zooms into 1st person when you have your back against a wall. The implementation however is not good, and very disorienting, especially while in indoor jumping puzzles. An alternative camera for when you have your back against a wall could be a true over-the shoulder camera previously explained. Norns often collide with ceilings, and the Asura have grass blade problems.

The camera positioning simply needs an all - around polishing to make it feel better.

9) Lockups / erratic movement / other

This is not something that is intended like the previous examples, but simply bugs that need to be fixed. The camera will often lock up, or move really slowly. Sometimes it might even spazz out and you end up looking in a completely different direction. Combine that with the zooming and you have a very disorienting experience.

There are also other numerous camera bugs which can't be categorized easily, such as camera zooming with Asura jumping on platforms, first person view lockups when near walls, not being able to turn with the RMB, etc.

There are videos out there that demonstrate these problems: Even though the problem has been fixed in my case for the previous 2 videos, people are still commenting that the problem is present for them.

Why this matters

A lot of people have been commenting on how the camera and controls don't feel good ever since BWE1. There have been numerous well documented reports on the official forums, GW2 guru, reddit, Twitter, email and support tickets. Clearly people are not just imagining things.
To quote:

View Postvelourfog, on 03 September 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

You can have a crappy story, crappy graphics, and mediocre content, but if the game still plays great people will play.
GW2 has an awesome story, amazing graphics, interesting content, but terrible controls.  No matter how great everything else is, the potential fun is directly proportional to your ability to control your character.
And tight, precise and responsive controls are the first and foremost thing a competitive game needs.

ArenaNet has stated multiple times that they intend for GW2 to become an e-sport. If the current camera implementation remains, they're in for a rough surprise.
There is no way that a camera that doesn't show you what you want to see, that doesn't respond when you want it to, and that ocasionally stops working will allow a professional player to demonstrate his skill, apart from the skill required to tame the controls.

While there are options in the game that affect the camera motion, such as the camera speed slider, free camera toggle and the keybinding to turn 180°, they don't actually fix the underlying problems, even if they may somewhat alleviate them.

What can be done about it

I believe that ArenaNet has far more pressing issues than camera controls, such as getting the game to work. That said, for a game that focuses around action oriented combat, positional and surrounding awareness, competitive PvP and jumping puzzles, this is not acceptable as a permanent solution.

As we have seen gamepad buttons in the .dat file by datamining, and it has been confirmed that the game was being also developed for consoles at some point, it is also possible that they are using some hybrid gamepad / mouse camera algorithm, possibly even 3rd party. That would explain a lot, since the game often does feel like a bad console port, even if the idea was dropped at some stage of development.
That may suggest that the camera algorithm may have to be completely reworked, but hopefully I am wrong.

In any case, the camera algorithm should be reworked, and options added for people who for some reason prefer the current camera behaviour. What we as a community can do is report the issue, send support tickets, and let the dev team know that the problem is present. This way we can show that this is a legitimate problem which we expect to be fixed in the near future. Here is my ticket. You can also suggest this on the official wiki, confirmed by Reggie.

Thanks for reading

So, thanks for taking the time and patience to read this, geting to know the problem inside out, and what to look for. Hopefully this will be fixed soon. Cheers!

#1870514 what ever happened to horizontal progression?

Posted Lord_Demosthene on 03 September 2012 - 07:59 AM

View Postverrda, on 03 September 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Also, guild wars 1 had no gear grind, it was all cosmetic.

I do however have a problem with havign to grind to simply be able to properly stat and build my character.

OP clearly never played Guild Wars Prophecies shortly after launch. WTB superior absorbtion 83k! No, you had to grind for your stuff - solo farming or UW/FOW if you were really good. The thing is, back in 2005-2007, at the peak of game's popularity, none of this stuff was considered grind, until titles and GWAMM title track was introduced - yeah, the latter was pretty much grind, regardless of whether you played the economy or just sold directly to the market.

Understand this: game's barely launched. We don't know where end-game runes drop and from which mobs, TP has been barely functional for the last few days hence it's difficult to find rare stuff or it's excessively overpriced. At this time in the game, the single, most valuable thing is information - and since you lack it, you feel like others are ripping you off in TP on "extremely rare" gear components, or that the game itself is a grind, when it clearly isn't.

When I played GW:Prophecies beating the last missions with my droks armour (which I barely afforded), and only a single minor axe mastery rune, it felt like a great achievement! My axe was pretty bad as well. But you know what - it didn't hold my progress. I beat the storyline, started farming and eventually outfitted myself in good-looking 15k gear and end-game runes, including the overpriced superior absorb and superior vigor ones.

So yeah, to an old GW veteran like me, who hasn't been spoiled by late-game Nightfall/EoTN economy (where the basic stuff was extremely cheap), the compulsory grind pretty much doesn't exist at the moment. Every MMO launch is like this, demands are infinite, supply is scarce and information is mostly unconfirmed rumour. Exploration time! Take risks and gain knowledge about the game through first-hand experience, that's what the early days in every MMO are about. Learn to enjoy the moment, because soon there will be no secrets, no wild rumours, no great scandals - instead everything will be bloodily predictable and as a result will likely feel much more of a grind than ever before.

#1817401 Power leveling: "Lettuce leveling" - the fastest and most efficient way

Posted Gregor Sabetin on 25 August 2012 - 01:05 PM

LOL reaching level 80 with lettuce power leveling isn't something you can brag about.

#1796910 Looting is not a fun experience

Posted Fleshgrinder on 23 August 2012 - 02:59 PM

I've never played a game where looting was fun.

It also wasn't not fun.

It was looting, a fairly benign thing in all games.

#1804932 Quick thief weapon set "guide."

Posted Reikou on 24 August 2012 - 10:30 AM

Basically, after seeing a flurry of posts with thief builds with obviously no direction or understanding of the class, I decided to make this quick post to give a quick outline as to what sort of playstyles each weapon set available to the thief provides, as well as their comparative advantages to other thief weaponsets.  This is basically based upon my experiences with the setups, as well as some basic theorycrafting.

For others experienced with the thief, please feel free to berate/correct me.

-Dagger MH-
Dagger/Dagger - The Balanced Setup.
Probably the go-to set for many inexperienced with thief.  This weapon set may seem attractive as a "burst" setup, because well... you're dual wielding stabbies.  However, I've found that the D/D setup is the best in a balanced setup split between both Power and Condition damage, and in general, a very balanced setup for doing anything.  With both the ability to apply poison and bleeding, pump out some decent damage with Heartseeker, and evade with Leaping Death Blossom, IMO the D/D setup is the best for a balanced setup.

Dagger/Pistol - The Offensive Powerhouse/Burst
The D/P setup is one of the best setups for a burst build for the thief, as well as all around physical dps.  The D/P setup takes all the physical damage options (Heartseeker, Backstab etc.) available to the D/D thief, and then adds some with Shadow Shot giving the thief a good chaser.

-Pistol MH-
Pistol/Dagger - The Condition Spam
P/D is perhaps the best condition setup for the Thief.  This setup focuses heavily on Cloak & Dagger for stealth, followed by Sneakattack for many bleed stacks.  Although it lacks easy poison application compared to D/D, the ease of stacking bleed with P/D makes up for this loss.  

Pistol/Pistol - The Ranged DPS
Nothing really stands out for the P/P setup except that it is a ranged set.  You get Unload which is quite nice, but that's about all that stands out for this set.

-Sword MH-
Sword/Dagger - The Sustain/Tank
I'm not too sure with this set, but looking at the skills, I believe that the S/D setup would be ideal for a sustain type setup for prolonged engagements.  S/D brings Flanking Strike to the mix which is perfect for an "evasion tanky" type playstyle.  How effective this is in PvP is another story.  Other important notes for this setup are: Weakness from Crippling strike, and Cloak & Dagger + Tactical Strike for even more defensive capabilities.

Sword/Pistol - The Harassment/Burst
The S/P setup I've found is ideal for harassment.  The S/P setup brings in Pistol Whip, which is quite a powerful burst skill.  This, combined with Infiltrator's Strike/Shadow Return, provide the thief with a very powerful build to quickly engage, attack and then disengage.  Other options include using Black Powder to cause AoE blind, and Headshot for interrupts for further annoyance.

The AoE Offhand
Basically, as of now, this is your offhand for whatever thief build you're using because of Infiltrator's Arrow.  The Shortbow is also the only weapon set that has a focus on AoE.

#1624414 Dance Vendor

Posted Linfang on 23 July 2012 - 09:41 PM

ugh, what happened to just dancing like /dance. I grow tired of being charged for everything I want to do

#1696321 Jeremy Soule and the people who love him

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 08 August 2012 - 07:32 PM

Tasca's Demise.

Pretty much as good as it gets.

#1647334 Are we Fanatical, or do we just have a few fanatics in the game?

Posted ~PolarisNova~ on 28 July 2012 - 04:39 PM

That reviewer (the one OP refers to) was doing okay until he decided to start bashing on the community. He goes too far actually...becoming over-zealous in his criticism. He sounds personally slighted.

What annoys me somewhat, is that reviewers like him (and others have done it too at times) highlight the community's bad points, and yes it does have them like any other gaming community, but they never ever say how positive and passionate and inspired the community is at the same time.

There are some fanatical types in the community, people like that have existed throughout time.....but there are also some very creative, helpful and healthily enthusiastic people, and reviewers like him don't see that, and if they do, they choose to ignore it.

#1644934 Wheres my CG Intro Arena Net?

Posted Kerdain on 27 July 2012 - 11:36 PM

No CG trailers please. When I see a CG trailer, I immediately suspect the game sucks, and it often does (see WoW, SWTOR). Most edited gameplay footage from GW2 we saw in past years beats any CG trailer. CG is used to hide flaws of the games, or when the games can't deliver any interesting action. It's not always true, of course, see Assassin's Creed / Deus Ex : HR trailers, these were awesome - but also closely represented the in-game action. You got what you saw, pretty much. On the other hand awesome CG trailers for say WoW or SWTOR are plain lie and deception. The games are nothing like what is being shown. GW2 does not need this.

CG animation is a relic from the past, when games boosted the graphics of Tetris and simply could not provide any interesting footage to people used to watch movies etc. It's not the case anymore. If a game can deliver epic footage - it should show it, not some prerendered lie.

Please, no CG movies, don't waste resources on something so pointless. One of the best game trailers ever made was the Skyrim trailer - and it needed no CG to be epic beyond belief. Neither does GW2.