Unfinished91

Waar Kijk Je Naar, on 22 January 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

I think what you mention here is severely underrated. You can generalize and describe story lines all you want, but in the end it's a question of "Will this story line leave a memorable impression on me?" or "Will I want to come back here later simply for the story?"

For me, the answer is "Yes" to a much greater extent in GW1 than what it is in GW2. Thinking Ascalon was "it", and being surprised when you got to the Shiverpeaks, hearing all those little memorable quotes by Cynn, the epic ambient sounds in Old Ascalon, getting lost trying to reach Piken Square, chilling in Fisherman's Heaven, hanging out in the "lost" hub Henge of Denravi, getting to the Crystal Desert and hearing the gossip of how Amnoon Oasis is the last source of water for along time, thinking Thunderhead Keep was the end of Prophecies, the list just keeps going on.

All of these things made a memorable impression on me, and I have yet to say the same for anything that happened in GW2 story, apart from the Zhaitan fight which only stood out because it was so poorly designed.

What I got out of it? Closure. They intend to increase the time it takes to gear up and keep devaluing what you worked for by releasing more powerful upgrades. Basically, they want to make sure there's always something you can grind/work for to get more powerful, even if it's just an infusion.

I cannot play a game that won't let me get over the gear work part, in order to start working towards things I really like(skins/titles). I can't enjoy horizontal progression without having finished vertical progression. It feels like I'm wasting my time if I go for looks over power, even if the increase in power is just 0.1%.

Vertical progression was in the game from the beginning in the form of leveling to 80 and gearing up in exotics, but the process was short enough for me to soldier through/ignore it while I let myself get distracted by events, personal story and the details in the world around me. It also had a definite endpoint, a plateau that we all were sure of is never going to be surpassed. Now, with vertical progression being basically open ended, there's no chance I will ever reach a point where I can stop worrying about working to reach the top.

I'm done.

Var, on 27 November 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

This is also from the guy that, literally two comments above, claimed they weren't grindy at all, or required zero/minimal grind.

As you might surmise, I hold very very little stock in what he says. If he thinks 300 ectos, 1350 fractal relics, 24 skill points, and 250 T6 mats is "zero" or "minimal" grind, then what are they going to change it to?

ArenaNet flushed their credibility down the toilet. That was their decision, it's hard to fault me for not taking things they say at face value (especially when they contradict themselves literally minutes apart).

To recap why I find it absurd.

ArenaNet

1) Sold us GW2 by saying things like "We don't make grindy games"
2) Releases a new tier that requires hundreds of hours of grinding only three months after release.
3) Goes into public and claims the massive grind for those items does not exist and is "minimal" or "zero" grind.
4) Only a few minutes after claiming that there is zero/minimal grind for the items, changes their tune and says it's too grindy.

Forgive me if I don't buy into them saying they'll fix the requirements (not that I don't think they'll be changed, I just don't see them being fixed).

I stopped playing because anet is starting to deviate from their original idea ascended gear is just the start

Nox_Aeterna, on 24 November 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Right there with you.  Probably gonna pick up Torchlight 2 this week til another game shows potential.  Absolutely disgusted by ArenaNet's bait and switch.

I saw this.

They talk to the community like we are dumb. What he spoke of prior were artificial barriers. What is in the game now is a real barrier. He knows this, yet still keeps typing out rhetoric.

Briar, on 16 November 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Bravo! A brilliant post! Simply brilliant!

The point that some fail to realise is the failure to deliver on the potential of GW2. But what was that potential? What did they promise us? What was the core of it? Fun, dagummit! Fun!!

Today, people log on to scour the shores of a beach for flotsam and jetsam. What sort of depraved mind sees that as fun? Do they have actuaries developing content, there? Please, allow me to share some perspective with whomever is bold enough to read this: You have a book in your hands, and the chapter you're on describes a character who's walking along a beach checking similar items. There are only very base descriptions of the objects at hand, and you're aware that a lot of other people are sharing this activity with the protagonist. The motivation to do this is very suspect, and yet they do it because they've been told to do it.

You sit back, you look at your book, and you wonder whether you're reading some kind of psychiatry textbook. Because it all sounds like some twisted social experiment, as you couldn't imagine a more boring activity. But no, apparently the author thought that this would be fun to read. Instead, you put the book down. You saunter over to your bookshelf and pick up something with true adventure, emotiona, and drama in it. Something that's actually fun to read.

And fun is the problem here. Everything is timid, tame, quiet, and... how can I put this? Limited isn't quite the correct word. It's like a playground where every child is given edutational tasks, busywork to keep them quiet. Just enough to keep them interested, but not enough for them to be entertained. It's not fun, it's just something to do. The tasks keep the mind occupied, and the promise of better things brings in operant conditioning. Something better will be just around the corner, so let's continue with our menial labour for now. It will get better eventually. Except aside from a few moments, it doesn't. It really doesn't.

Operant conditioning is never a substitute for fun.

Anyone who reads this needs to understand the Rule of Fun.

I keep linking that in the hopes that people will read it and perhaps open their eyes.

Now, if I'd designed this game? The Black Citadel would have been much larger in scale. Lots more NPCs, and something almost akin to a fantasy dyson sphere. The engineer would have had a chainsaw at his disposal, along with other fun gadgets, and a small army of mobile bots to aid him in the field. The engineer himself would be in heavy armour that makes him look almost like a heavy tank, and he'd have massive presence on the battlefield. This is what I'd consider fun. To be honest, GW2 feels like a cheap knock off of the game I would have designed. Egotistical? Arrogant? Maybe. But bloody true.

Because if there's one thing I know... it's that fun is important. The Rule of Fun is the most important design rule of all. Instead, as a charr, I found my city to be underwhelming compared to the concept art. I found that my most fun tool as an enginere was a piss-poor 'flamethrower' that missed most of the time. How do you do that? How do you make a flamethrower unfun? How?! How bad do you have to be at design, how much must you hate fun, in order to make a flamethrower like the one engineers have to put up with in GW2? Who thought that was a good idea?

And this is the problem. GW2, as it stands, has an absence of fun. I don't find my city fun, I find it boring. I don't find my profession fun, I find it boring. I don't find the content fun, I find it boring. I don't find the new content fun, either. I mean, if you find sifting through junk on a beach to be genuinely fun then... I have to ask. Are you an actuary? Have you ever daydreamed? Ever read a comic book or a stirring novel? What's wrong with MMORPG developers and players? Are you all so soulless? So much so that you accept a treadmill as an acceptable substitute for fun.

What the hell, people?

And that's my problem. I don't want to log in to GW2 because none of the things I could do are fun. Hanging out in my city isn't fun. Playing the engineer isn't fun. Doing the content isn't fun. And unlike many MMORPG gamers, I'm not a weak-minded person who falls prey to operant conditioning. I don't think that a treadmill is the be-all-and-end-all answer to everything. And don't tell me that you need a treadmill to create fun, because that's utter nonsense. And don't tell me that it would be hard for ArenaNet to make GW2 fun, either.

I've played a bunch of indie games lately that were fun and had no need for progression. Hands up! How many of you have played Hotline Miami? Made by two people, no progression, and you want to keep playing it. Why? It's fun, damn it.

ArenaNet could fix this this. I KEEP STRESSING THIS.

But they'll only fix it if we pull our heads out of the sand and tell them that we want fun, not treadmills. I'm no one's enemy, here.

---- Edit ----

I kind of want to expand on how let down I feel by how tame and uncreative the game is.

Okay, the Black Citadel. In the original concept art, it was a gigantic sphere. What this did with my imagination was a fantasy dyson sphere. Yes. Basically, what I thought was that due to the unique physiology of oozes, they could basically have an oozecore, constantly lit up. That would work similar to geothermal energy for them, and they'd use that to power the various parts of the Citadel, all of which would be a giant, self-replicating machine. A machine that produces more.

This would explain how they manufacture the various things that they do. The massive let down that is the actual Black Citadel doesn't at all have the scope to support the kind of things they're building, and that disappoints me. How amazing would a giant dyson sphere of black metal have been? Instead of just the slapdash war camp that it turned out to be, with random bits of junk plating, it could have been this beautiful clockpunk machine with lots of moving parts.

They instanced the game, so there's really no excuse. Even with the amount of players, a properly optimisd engine can run very complex looking locales populated by lots of units. Look at Assassin's Creed, for example. Or, hell, Everquest II. EQ II had absolutely massive cities. And with that sort of design they could have really lived up to the original concept art. Instead, it's just ... timid, tame. "No, no," I can almost hear the actuary heading up GW2's design saying, "that's far too over the top. Their tiny minds wouldn't be able to have that much fun. Tone it down. Make it smaller. Smaller. More humble. Less impressive. It's still not unimpressive enough. Do you have a problem understanding the concept of less impressive?"

And the end result just leaves me feeling cold.

As of Yesterday

https://www.guildwar...-ascended-gear/

"This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.  As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game.  Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content."      

- Lindsey Murdock, Game Designer   

3 Months Earlier

http://venturebeat.c...s:guildwars2-16

"Here's what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can't realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.  Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear.  We don't make grindy games -- we leave the grind to other MMOs."

  -Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While it is pretty clear of what Arenanet has in mind going forward, many of us want to know "What happened?"  One does not simply decide to simply build a MMO claiming to "defy all existing conventions" & 2 months down the road completely change ones business practices & betray its playerbase without reason.

Some speculate "No endgame, not enough micro-transactions, player activity declining" & well I have a opinion on those matters which I will share, but none of these issues should have been addressed with a gear treadmill/power creep.  This is one of the milestones Arenanet promised its playerbase which made it unique in the MMO industry & now threatens to go back on.


No Endgame:

While I am sure to get opposition on this, I happen to agree on this matter.  GW2 is very limited on endgame.  Here is #1 reason.  Players are limited to 2 Zones.  We have a MASSIVE world out there & only 2 zones are populated.  Why has this issue gone overlooked.  Currently the majority of the 80 population is found in 1 of 3 areas.  Lions Arch, Orr, Frostgorge.  Why?  There is no incentive/reward for players to be active in the other zones.  T6 crafting materials, exotic/rare drops, higher exp/karma/silver for participating in dynamic events.

Suggestion:

Zaishen Daily Dynamic Events - Each day 1 zone is selected (Outside of Orr/Frostgorge).  For the first completion of every dynamic event in that zone the player would be rewarded a large % increase to Dynamic event rewards.  Significantly higher than that of Orr/Frostgorge.  For example:  Orr/Frostgorge reward something like 378 karma for completion.  ZDDE would reward 500.  Once every dynamic event in the zone was completed the player would be rewarded with a 20-30 T6 mats of their choice & a fair sum of silver.  ZDDE applies to 80's only.  (Yes, I'm aware it would have to be affiliated with some other organization, just using Zaishen as a GW1 reference)

Not Enough Microtransactions:

This is 100% on Arenanet.  Currently there is nothing in the gemstore that appeals to me as a player.  I do not speak for everyone but I think many would agree that items such as Black Lion Keys are not a viable purchase.  I conducted a study on these very forums & the numbers speak for themselves.

http://www.guildwars...een-r-d-thread/

The probability of a player getting a desirable item such as the permanent bank/trader is likely less than 1%.  When Black Lion Keys are going for roughly 1G which equates to $2.00 US Dollars, its hard to justify such a gamble.  

Suggestion:

New additions need to be added to the gem store more frequently & not just during holiday events.  Additions such as unique emotes, musical instruments etc.  Black Lion Chests need to have a much much more appealing drop % for desirable items.  5-6% would be more realistic for items such as permanent bank/trader etc.

Player Activity Declining:

I don't necessary agree with this.  I will say that of my 6 friends who started playing GW2, I am the only one continuing to do so but my inner circle is not indicative of the games population as a whole.  GW2 is unique in that there are no monthly fees.  So one has the freedom of coming on & playing when he/she chooses.  I think we will always see a increase in activity during event weekends & lulls when there is not.  I feel GW2 is fine, but when one fundamentally changes the games core philosophy with additions such as the one that is coming it is very possible that players will move on/leave.  After all, "No grind/No treadmill" was one of if not the main selling point of this franchise.

Kyonshee, on 02 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

If you care about the stuff you can buy with karma, sure, there might be some appeal. Personally, I'd rather just run around in starter gear than the unsightly junk that are the Orr temple armors. They're probably the reason the gods abandoned the world. Crimes against good taste, committed in their names, it would tick me off.

Reposted from the R and D thread on Black Lion Chests since it wasn't 100% on topic so I brought it here.

This thread is to discuss the way that ANet has handled this installment of Halloween, most notably what they have done with Black Lion Chests. These are my thoughts.

So I had a bit of a flame battle in /map last night in LA over Halloween skins costing ridiculous amounts. Essentially the argument that: "If you don't want it, don't grind for it." is being used rampantly.

This is fundamentally wrong. Legendaries are a legitimate grind. This is HALLOWEEN. It is supposed to be a fun community oriented event. No one, save those people who do nothing but PvE and farm 8 hours a day can reliably afford these skins.

In case you missed it, what ANet did was inflate the economy so that gems trade for more gold. This combats gold sellers with a more competitive price from Dollars --> Gold but it makes the exchange for Gold --> Gems completely absurd. The problem with this is that it blew the economy up overnight. Any player who is not spending money on the game post-purchase is negatively impacted by this event because you can no longer buy gems with gold for any semblance of a reasonable amount.

If they really wanted these skins to be difficult to obtain, in a community event, mind you, they should have made it so you had to complete a certain amount of events or get "Halloween Tokens" which are awarded based on your participation in the actual event.

The real problem with them being in Black Lion Chests is that in 330 hours on my character, I have gotten 3 keys, ever. This is including the personal story. I've gotten one from a drop maybe one time. The amount of keys that you get in this game is probably a ratio of 1 key to 100 chests. The idea that not only are keys almost impossible to get in a drop, but because they are in the trading post, gem prices exploded because they make an insanely rare item put in a chest that is insanely hard to open. It's exponential, if you didn't realize.

These skins aren't account bound like EVERYTHING else you get from a chest. So people who are lucky enough to make it out of the flawed system, turn around and make the economy explode even more charging 40g for a skin driving 99% of the population who can't afford the skins to try and buy just enough gems to open a couple chests and pray that the astronomical odds work in their favor.

If anyone is going to argue that you can "Just roll a new character and get the key from the story quest." There is a serious problem. There should not be people having to grind outside of the Halloween event to get anything involved within the Halloween event. The ANet marketing team and their e-conomists seriously dropped the ball on this.

We, as a community, cannot let them think that this is ok. If the only argument that can be brought up is that if you want it, grind for it just like a legendary, or to take advantage of story quests by re-rolling characters in order to get keys that -never- drop otherwise, this is fundamentally wrong.

This is a community every reward/item should be available within the parameters of the event just like the legacy left by GW1's holiday events has established. I am incredibly disappointed by the way this marketing ploy was designed.

*This is a marketing issue, not a content issue, to be clear. I have thoroughly enjoyed the other content in this event. I have not tried to open chests and I do not plan on it. I also have not bought gems or bought a skin with in-game gold. This is outrage based on principle and what has happened to others. I have not been cheated in any way, but ANet needs to know that this is wrong.

EDIT: I have received a lot of hateful comments on account of my opinion. I have even received private messages from individuals (who obviously made fake accounts just to cuss me out [wow]) insulting me in any number of ways. I made this post to take a public stand against something ANet has done. I played the original Guild Wars and the debacle with the chests is just horrendous compared to the legacy GW1 has left.

Let everyone remember that this is a forum for shared ideas, not insults. If you are toxic to the conversation, you will be reported. Do not think that you are so pretentious that you are allowed to insult other posters. If you feel that you need to insult others, go play Xbox Live or League. I have a lot of respect for members of this community, but if individuals continue to insult, berate, and degrade, I will begin to feel sorry that I ever stood up for this community to begin with.

EDIT #2: ANet has provided a solution to the issue.

#275 is my response to the semantics behind the word chance and SEVERAL possible solutions that ANet could use in the future or could have used now. (substitute "Wintersday" where appropriate)

Lastchime, on 15 October 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

Such a stupid argument. Playing the game isn't necessary either. Nothing is necessary when you go far enough. The thing is that they've made the process of acquiring legendaries annoying while it could be a fun and rewarding (in terms of looks) journey. The point of constructive criticism is that you want to make something better. If everybody used your argument when somebody criticises something, nothing would ever be imrpoved in any way.

Lastchime, on 15 October 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

I am not talking about changing the process entirely. I'd only like to have a recipe for the pre-cursors. Perhaps some karma, skill points, crafting materials and such things. The mystic clover recipe is okay, but the luck element should be removed while the actual requirements of creating one could be increased by 300-500% to compensate the randomness that was lost.

In this thread we'll be discussing magic find.  The benefits, the negatives & its impact on GW2 as whole.  This topic has a tendency to draw opposition from both sides, so while contributing to the discussion please try to remain civil & refrain from attacking one another.  Let us start by stating the facts.

Does Magic Find work?

Absolutely.  After having almost 400+ hours played I have noticed significant gains in loot quality while under the effects of magic find.  During these tests I was only under the effects of magic find boosts (+50% MF) as well as the omnomberry tarts (+30% MF) and on rare occasions +10% MF from guild banners.  On days while farming under the effects of MF I would commonly find 7-10 rares within 4-5 hours.  On days without MF I'd be lucky to find 2-3.

Why would anyone not use Magic Find then?

Excellent question.  Why wouldn't you?  If it guarantees you will have the best possible % chance of getting best loot why would anyone not use it?  The only plausible exception being pvp where survivability is usually more desirable than loot acquisition & I believe MF does not affect BoH drops.

So whats the problem?

Simply put, by using magic find one is contributing less & gaining more.

"No, that is not true!"

It is.  By having magic find on all of your gear/sigils you are making large sacrifices that effect not only your damage output/healing but also your utility.  I'll give you a example:

Your fighting a boss that throws half a dozen debuffs on the entire party at once.

You have 2 shout warriors in your group with identical setups/gear/weapons etc.

Warrior A:  Has full magic find on gear
Warrior B:  Uses Superior runes of the soldier & +5% crit chance sigil

Not only will warrior B having a higher damage output thus making the encounter easier, he is also removing twice as many debuffs from the entire party & thus contributing far more to the group as a whole.

Both warriors open chest.  Warrior A loots a dusk, warrior B loots a porous skull.

Why Magic Find is Bad for GW2:

Magic find is quickly becoming the "required" stat.  Every answer to any question ever asked regarding loot can quickly be summed up to "Get yourself more magic find."  Almost every player that has already acquired a legendary swears by it & says its mandatory.  There are like a 20-30+ modifiers out there & everyone is quickly being drawn into this one stat.  That tells you something.

Now I am sure I will get a lot of opposition on this topic since there are thousands of players who have dumped 50+ gold into a magic find set but If you disagree I would just like you to ask yourself the following:

Is it ok for players who contribute less to be rewarded more?  Is it ok that everyone in GW2 is all shifting to this one stat just to have equal loot opportunities as everyone who uses it?

Premise
I'm one of those who plays the game to have fun; I do not care for treadmills, grinding, farming, and all those brain-dead activities.
I like to entertain myself through different, funny activities.
I have 420 hours in, still having a blast and all, but I just hit a big, hard wall of bricks.
Sadly, I realized (or, my bank made me realize) that playing for fun (which was Anet's philosophy) is not viable economically.
I delayed this by doing some things like playing with alts and getting money with map completions so my main would be able to travel, but ultimately that money ended.

The problem.
By playing the game normally (visiting different places, doing some guild helping, jump puzzles etc), I incur in at least 1-2g of Waypoint fees in a day.
But I make less than 1-2g/day by playing normally.
Therefore, in order to play for fun I need to farm gold or I will go bankrupt.
Be it farming nodes or farming dungeons, farming is required; you cannot just "enjoy the game" or you will go broke.
This leads a major design flaw, the game basically forces you to farm gold or go bankrupt.
Wasn't the focus that one should play for fun?

My protest.
I see no intention of addressing this issue from Anet whatsoever; they are so scared of gold sellers and inflation that they prefer their players to be forced to farm just to pay taxes.
Many guildies joined this protest, we're going to never touch paid waypoints and walk on foot until we're not forced to spend 1-2g per days just in travel fees.
We're going to use LA port from PvP and portals alone as a traveling system.


Just letting you all know that not everyone surrenders to the current high-taxes, forced-farming policy.

Tell me, how many low populated servers are there:

I tend to have my guild and party chat channel active so don't see much map chat and I don't go on the official forums so I cannot judge either. On Guru though I would agree with you. I think the main problems come from what the game was supposed to be, vs what it is.

The game was supposed to be a revolution in MMO gaming, a total overhaul of the genre that would be the genres second coming, it would be open and dynamic in ways never before seen and this didn't happen. Yes there are new systems, and it is defiantly a stepping stone towards a reinvention of the genre but it is not there yet.

But then who really expected it to live up to the hype? It was going to be the single greatest game ever for MMO fans if it fulfilled the hype, but here in the real world nothing ever lives up to the hype because there is simply so much hype it would be impossible.

What does that leave?
1) It leaves rational people who knew the game would be different but also knew it would not, could not, match the hype. These people are here mainly talking things through and answering questions

2) There are people who believed the hype, and still do. These are the "fanbois", they will seem the game they dreamed of no matter what and they will jump on a chance to purge the third type (and first in many threads). They worship the game as a God and grab their pitchforks and torches whenever a heretic suggests the game is less than perfect. These people love the game for their reason and they have made it their mission to make others see the game the way they do.

3) Haters, people who believed the hype and are throwing a tantrum at not getting the "promised game" and people from other games who would of hated GW2 even if it was the game it was hyped to be simply because they like pepsi/apple/World of Warcraft more than coca-cola/microsoft/Guild Wars. These people hate the game for their reason and they have made it their mission to make others see the game the way they do.