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#2092564 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted MazingerZ on 22 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 22 November 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

If that's true then why doesn't ascended items have the same stats as exotics?

Oddly enough this is the one point I can't get anyone to explain to me logically.

I get "this is only going to happen once, they'll never do it again." If they associate the gear's introduction with increased cash for gold sales, you bet your ass they will.

Some people think that Legendaries have higher stats than Exotics.

Some at least admit its for the treadmill locusts, but still remain entirely convinced ArenaNet's not going to turn the game into a treadmill.

The issue is, even people get on board with this, if it generates revenue, then all it will do is shape future development of the game.

"Why are the cash shop sales so low?  What's this spike here in the data?"

"That's when we introduced the Ascended gear."

"Well, can't you do that again?  Numbers for next quarter have to look good."

#2092542 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted BrotatoSoup on 22 November 2012 - 03:25 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 22 November 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

You mean just like how it would be grindy to get Exotic gear?

If (which is probable) we can craft and sell Ascended gear it should be quite easy to buy a set by simply playing the game a bit.

Quoting another post:

View PostShroomhead Fred, on 21 November 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:


Do you really think these other alternate methods are going to be cake?

They've already set up a precedent. The alternatives will be based and balanced around the current method of acquiring ascended gear.

I can actually see it now...

ANet: So you want to craft Ascended stuff, huh? Great, we'll give you that option! But first you must create the recipe from the Mystic Forge. No biggie, you just need 50 Lodestones, 100 Crystals and 250 [T6 fine mats]. Now you want to craft the actual item? Great, that'll be 50 Ectos, 100 [T6 fine mats] and 50 [T6 craft mats]. Are you having fun yet?!

#2090163 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted Xsiriss on 21 November 2012 - 12:23 AM

The thing I don't get about Ascended gear is just, why? There doesn't need to be a tier between legendary and exotic, the gap really shouldn't exist to begin with and adding stats does not count as progression. Progression to me, as a long standing GW1 vet is actually doing stuff like going through campaigns and dungeons. All they needed to do was add the dungeon, put in a large amount of decent skins (armour and weapons) at exotic level and maybe the whole 'infusion business' though purely as something that can be used to upgrade armour you already have.

Gear stepping is only mildly better than a gear treadmill. I honestly hope they never bring out ascended weapons or armour and don't increase legendary stats either. It's not fun, innovative or even asked for. They should be balancing and fixing the game rather than trying to plug it full of new stuff.

#2088823 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted asbasb on 20 November 2012 - 05:39 AM

View PostPhy, on 20 November 2012 - 03:50 AM, said:

You aren't required to do any of the new content for a legendary, making this a terrible argument.
I'm not required to play the game if I don't want to. Not a great rebuttal either, huh?
If I had known this game would make me chase stats through infusion tiers)and grind to gear up with BIS gear, I would've never bought it.

#2088449 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted The_Tree_Branch on 19 November 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostAsudementio, on 19 November 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

What you said was that the addition of ascended items will cause a hemoragging of the playerbase as it betrays the initial game design as far as gear progression goes. You can't assume that that will be the result as such an assumption is based on that a single path of progression (ascended gear to progress deeper into the fractal dungeons) is an issue that effects a large enough group of players to such a degree that they will quite. It is shameless speculation that doesn't seem likely.

Except Ascended gear doesn't just provide an infusion slot. It also has higher stats than exotics. If Arenanet just wanted to please the dungeon divers, they could have added Ascended items with just the infusion mechanic.

Or, they could have raised named exotic pieces to Ascended tier so that it doesn't feel like just another exotic but have exotic and ascended gear have infusion slots (and make the infusions harder to get).

There is a lot Arenanet could have done without pulling a 180 by introducing a gear treadmill for highest stat gear (after saying that highest stat would be easy for casual player to get).

Even though you don't NEED highest stat gear to play all parts of the game, it certainly goes up against what they said before about player skill being a determining factor and not player time (I'm looking at this line from a WvW perspective).

#2088296 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted Kymeric on 19 November 2012 - 09:13 PM

They could have taken a better shot at satisfying both player types.

Ascended gear could have had infusions that increased Agony mitigation, with absolutely no increase in core stats over Exotic.

Then the dungeon runners who want a treadmill could happily grind out Agony mitigation while the rest of us went about the rest of the game without concern that we will need to hop on that treadmill or forever wonder if that Red Invader who flattened us did it through skill or better gear.

Why, ArenaNet?  Why?

#2087479 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted Silent The Legend on 19 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

View PostJason Seven, on 15 November 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

And rightfully so. After all for every GW1 player exist 6-7 WoW players. It is only logical for ArenaNet to cater to us instead of GW1 fans who want nothing to do in a MMO as it seems. It boggles my mind how someone wouldn't want a gear treadmill in their game when it is this necessary or why else do you think did ArenaNet add this system? I hope ArenaNet can stay this course and not cave in to cater to this niche crowd once more. GW2 already failed because they deviated from the original MMO formula. Grave mistake.

Posted Image

#2086709 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted JimC on 19 November 2012 - 12:34 AM

View PostGhostwing, on 19 November 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

That extrapolation doesn't really have grounded evidence, though. Just because the new rings and backslot have a certain % jump it doesn't mean each armor piece would have proportionally the same jump when they're implemented.

Granted it is all supposition. However it is based on the stat budge increase on the exiting 3. It stands to reason this will not change in the other 11 slots. It isn't much of a stretch to extrapolate out for the rest of the slots and we already know what the weapon damage increase will likely be (given the old Legendaries). Expect to see an armour value increase too. The only real question is wrt runes and will you see the likes of divinity/scholar runes and the power of lighting procs and 25 stacks of +10 power? I can't see them not having something "equivalent" rolled into the item if there is no upgrade slot. Mind, it may be hard to replicate just how good +10% damage is on the scholar rune for certain backstab-burst builds builds.

And expect to pay a crap ton to repair them. :)

And wait for it. Ascended food, since you have to keep cooking updated when you roll out ascended crafting. :)

Also, just for some fire, the current patch implementation  someone with 3 ascended is at a ~6% damage output advantage RIGHT NOW over berserker exotics. 6% isn't enough to replace skill, but it takes every single narrow win I have had over a backstab-ganking. Those happen to be some of the most memorable, enjoyable fights I have had in WvW. The heart stopping plummet of life, the hitting of the invulnerability/stun breaker/heal/dodge/knockback trying to skate back from the brink of death knowing if you can survive the next 2 seconds you you can lock him down and drop his ass. It turns those into frustrating, head-desk, stunned and dead loss. And that isn't good for the game in any way shape or form as any look at the PvP section will tell you.

If/When that 38% materializes, a C&D precast->Mug->Backstab with some happy day crits will be enough. Infact, A lucky backstab ALONE will be enough against any foolish glasscannon eles, doing enough to 0 their life pool, in what will finally be a true one-shot - against a lvl 80 - in exotics - not some lvl 5 with 100 toughness.

And just like in every other game where "but its such a tinny amount. Its only 5 points!". The problem comes when you multiple that out across multiple stats, in multiple slots that all stack together. A few snowflakes start the snowball rolling.

#2085685 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted tatsuo on 18 November 2012 - 07:13 AM

Now Guildwars 2 is not any different than other crappy MMO's with their stupid grind.

#2085432 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted Runkleford on 18 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

View PostArdeni, on 17 November 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

I don't know about the rings, but at least I got my quiver today. It wasn't that much of a farm. You just need about 20-40g, 24 skill points and the item from FotM. Didn't seem like an awful amount of grind to me.

Are you being sarcastic? I really can't tell. I'm a casual player and have one character to level 80 and working on my second character. I barely have 30 gold. If I need to spend 20 - 40 gold on one piece of  the statistically highest gear then GW2 really is no longer the casual friendly game that it touted itself to be.

#2085392 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted DuskWolf on 18 November 2012 - 12:00 AM

View PostAventurian, on 17 November 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

You got that one wrong. The developers, project managers, product managers, and team leads who are responsible for this do not perceive the player base as kids.

But as guinea pigs.
Huh. Hahaha. Yes. That's a fair point.

See, whenever I think about GW2 in another context, like... okay, turn GW2 into a book. If you were to read about what you do in GW2 rather than actually playing it, it sounds like some twisted social experiment. Behavioural observation and mdification, that sort of thing. I have an armchair interest in that, anyway, and that's what it's like. Then you throw in operant conditioning to try and convince them that's fun.

The whole thing becomes an experiment to try and convince people that something unfun is actually fun, and on some people it's clearly working. That's... intriguing.

Okay, I tip my hat to you. Fair point.

#2085370 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted DuskWolf on 17 November 2012 - 11:40 PM

Grumpdogg: "Revolutionary? It's barely Evolutionary."

Yep. That's my issue. After having played Champions Online, which felt revolutionary due to how different the combat and content feels to WoW... hell, after playing Star Trek Online, which has flanking damage and starship combat, it's hard to see how GW2 is really that different than WoW.

And instead of understanding that I'm suggesting things that would actually make the game better, the rabidly overzealous fanboys ignore my opinions and attack me. As I'm sure we'll see with the rest of this post. Anyone else noticed how much I make them defensive? The cognitive dissonance and self-deluding is strong with them. :I

Korra: "Just stop playing if you have so many complaints. Simple as that.

"Also, [email protected] movement speed x10"

I complain because the game could be made better.

You laugh at the increase of movement speed, but Champions Online has a significantly fast movement speed and it feels fantastic. I know it's hard for you to imagine because your gaming experiences have been more limited than mine. What this means is that I can imagine more than you can.

GW2 sped up would feel much more fun than the 'moving through treacle' feel it has right now. It's like the air of Tyria is made of treacle, and you just have to really use all of your energy to push you rway through it. It shouldn't feel like that.

Milennin: "Speeding up combat by 4-6x would make it look utterly ridiculous.

"Speeding up base movement speed by 8-10x so we move at the speed of cars? Sounds to me like you would prefer a Sonic the Hedgehog game over an RPG.

"Remove effective gold sinks to speed up inflation that much faster? Yeah, sounds great. Not."

In regards to making the game feel faster, your brain is failing to understand that the speed increases are not that huge. What you're not comprehending because of your limited understanding is that Guild Wars 2 is already very slow. Compare the movement of GW2 with a spectacle fighter like Devil May Cry. Even if you increase the speed that much, you'd still only be at half of the speed of a spectacle fighter.

You act as though the numbers I've suggested are massive numbers, you act as though 4x is 400x, and this just shows how really screwed up and skewed your perceptions are. This makes me wonder whether you've ever played anything other than WoW. Not just other MMOs, but even other games, period. Guild Wars 1's combat was already around 3x faster than GW2.

What you fail to understand is that that's why it's so jarring for me. It's fine if all you've ever played is WoW. But once you've played other games, other MMOs even, you start to twig why GW2 is just so painfully slow.

And are those gold sinks necessary? Why? The fact of the matter is that ArenaNet controls the economy and the price of things on the auction house, anyway, so they have other methods of dealing with inflation. But apparently needing to grind for gold is a good thing, and you can't even see any other solutions than grinding for gold. Instead of yelling at me about that, how about we work to find other solutions? This is, once again, why I feel you've never played anything other than WoW.

Guild Wars 1 didn't really have any gold sinks of that kind. No armour repair, no teleportation costs, nothing. Oh my! It must have been so terrible! And yet it wasn't. Care to explain?

I kind of wish people would think before lashing out at me.

But that's like asking for the moon.

Milennin: "They already do look in broken skills. They're just slow at fixing them."

Yes. They're appparently too interested in rolling out new gear tiers.

Milennin: "What's the point in up-scaling people? I don't understand."

Because the lower-end content is simply not as fun. Thier thesis is basically that you should be able to enjoy fun content at any time, rather than being forced to grind from mind-numbingly boring stuff to actually get to the good stuff. Implementing upscaling so that people can do things like jumping straight into the Shatterer fight rather than toiling around with buckets of water and doing other menial tasks fits their ethos.

All you have to do is think about what I'm saying rather than lashing out.

Milennin: "They added a bunch of new jumping puzzles last month. Ungrateful kid."

That's immature of you, now isn't it?

You can't attack my arguments, so instead you attack me, and you insinuate a lack of age. Yup. That's oh so mature, so refined of you, so not at all kneejerk. To be honest, considering how bratty you've been in attacking me as opposed to my arguments, I think you're projecting.

Yes, they added a couple, but my opinion was that they needed to concentrate more on those to actually provide a variety. Or did you not understand that, either? Again, instead of just lashing out and attacking me, try to read and understand my opinions.

My opinion is that the game is floundering due to the lack of diversity in content. Think, then type.

Milennin: "You claim to be involved in game development, yet don't understand how hard it is to deal with clipping in a game with 5 different races and a big selection of different gear to mix and match with. Right."

Because it isn't that hard. Everquest II has no clipping for any of the races. You only assume it's this monumentally hard thing because you've actually never done 3D modelling, rigging, and animating. But it's no different than drawing a picture. It's actually seriously not that difficult. If they assigned enough people to it, they could make some minor model edits and rerigs in a matter of months.

But again, you're lashing out with a lack of understanding. You're proving your ignorance to me, here. You're just showing me that you have no idea how model-editing works. I've done model-editing myself and worked closely with people in the same vocation, you'd be amazed at how quickly things can get done.

You talk about these things as if they were magic to you, and you uphold the Sorcerers involved in weaving these things into existence with godlike respect. It's just work, man. Like any other form thereof. It can be done well, and it can also be done quickly. The problem is is that we humans are lazy when we're not passionate about things, so incentives need to be there. Maybe if NCsoft hadn't underfunded ArenaNet so badly, leaving their employee payrolls so woefully low, this wouldn't have happened.

But to say it's something they can't fix becuase oh, the Sorcerous powers may only be used when the moons are aligned, and they've harvested the appropriate amount of souls is utterly ridiculous, hilariously so. It really does show your ignorance. Why do so many people think that day to day work is magic?

That bothers me. It really does. As an artist myself, that honestly annoys me. It's like the idea that people are born as artists, rather than just learning to be by working at it. That art is magic, rather than just learning things like anatomy, and how to be observant. This was perhaps the most grating part of your post, for me. And if consumers continue to believe the things that you believe, nothing will ever get done!

Milennin: "Big doesn't equal quality."

Except that it does. Imagine if all the cities in Assassin's Creed with just mere villages with little visual variety. Big does equal quality. If you'd ever walked around a city in Assassin's Creed, or if you'd ever played Everquet II or Champions Online, you'd understand how fantastic having a large city with a lot of visual variety is. Having a home city that actually feels impressive does a lto to boost morale. It's something for a player to come home too.

But if the city is small and unimpressive, then it's just underwhelming, and you don't feel the need to go back there. I implore you to play Everquest II for a little while, just so that you can understand just what a large, varied city can do for you. But the problem you seem to be having is t hat you believe that variety in a game doesn't help. It does. It helps immensely.

See, you're failing to understand that it isn't the bigness, it's that the city is big enough to be varied. The cities in GW2 aren't big enough to be varied. The cities in CO, EQ2, and certain other games are.

Milennin: "The problem with cities is that they're dead zones."

They're dead zones in Guild Wars 2. The reason for that is because it's no fun to go back there. There's no variety, no in city activities, they're not fun to roleplay in. These are all topics I covered in my post. Are you purposefully being obstinant and arrogant?

Play another MMO, like Everquest II or Champions Online, and you'll see lots of people in cities. All you need to do to be able to re-evaluate your opinions is to have played other things. Again, at this point... I just can't tell. I'm thinking you might be trolling me? WoW and GW2 aren't the only two games in existence, you know?

Milennin: "Oh no, a game that's clearly focused mainly around combat is getting mostly combat content."

This one made me snicker.

See, it's like you're trying to purport that variety is bad. Look at any single- or multi-player game and you'll see that not only do they have combat, they have plenty of other things going on in order to vary things up. Take Zelda! You mentioned Zelda, right? So let's go with that. In Zelda games you have puzzles in dungeons, and you have the use of various gadgets. But apparently Zelda shouldn't have any of this, it should just have combat and only combat.

Can you imagine how boring of a game Zelda would be if it didn't have anything but combat? See, at this point, you're either being intellectually dishonest or you're just an incredibly boring person. I can't decide which. But you'll find for the majority of people, having a variety of content (including non-combat content) is important.

The most requested mods in Torchlight I were puzzle dungeons. That's why Torchlight II has puzzle dungeon chunks which don't involve just spamming the left mouse button, in those you have to stop and think about a puzzle before you proceed. Some of those puzzles even require friends. Before you spam your quote button again... stop and think about that.

No, really. Think. Let it percolate. Understand.

Milennin: "The home instance is a waste of space [...]"

Hi, I'm Milennin and I think that all of the half-arsed ideas should be removed from GW2, rather than being fleshed out and turned into something fun.

Really? At this point... are you just trollin' me? I... can't tell. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, I really do. But... you are, aren't you? You have to be. How can you not be?

Milennin: "Not sure what you mean by this... Buff racial skills? And then have people pick a race for their racial instead of looks or lore or whatever?"

No. Not essentially. What I mean by this is to make the races feel more different. For example, the norn? Right now, they feel like giant humans, especially the women. There's so much you could do there in order to actually make them feel more enjoyable, look at the clothing of NPCs in the Hoelbrak, for example, and compare that to the NPCs of Skyrim.

Then you could also provide some of those armours to be worn. You could also look at the norn racial and make it so that they're actually were-creatures, as they were meant to be, rather than having to wait til level 30 for an elite you'll never use. It's not that hard when you think about it.

But you don't want to think. You just want to lash out and attack. :I

I'm not your enemy. I'm trying to improve this game.

I'm genuinely trying to do that.

I invite you to shush for a moment and think about what I'm saying, rather than hitting back with yet another attack, where you prove your own ignorance more than anything else. Okay?

#2084796 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted Grumpdogg on 17 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

View PostDuskWolf, on 17 November 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

What if we'd had something like that instead of the bloody awful final battle we did get? See, this is what I would have done. Because that would have been over the top and amazing. Do you know what else it would have been? Fun.

Half way through the Zaitan fight, the truth hit me and I was awoken to the huge pile of lies GW2 PvE was in reality - after months of buying into the hype.

Ever since then, they've kept on forging a path directly perpendicular to their stated manifesto. But that continuing divergence is just accepted now and doesn't even shock me.

"Revolutionary"? It's barely Evolutionary.

#2084740 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted DuskWolf on 17 November 2012 - 10:51 AM

View Postomar316, on 17 November 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

I cannot agree more. But I think we do need to consider that this concept is beyond Anet's capability to achieve in a short timespan.
No, no it isn't!

What can they do right now to make the game feel more fun and like less of a drag?

- Remove the tiered gear and make a promise that there won't be any more.

And the short term?

- Speed up combat by 4-6x.
- Speed up the base movement speed by 8-10x.
- Remove costs from waypoints.
- Lower gear costs again.
- Make dyes account-wide.

That's just in the short term. I've been involved in game development, and that's something they could do in less than a month with the amount of manpower they have. I'm not even joking.

After that?

- Look at the broken profession skills (like the flamethrower).
- Add in some new AI routines (resurrecting allies, seeking out groups of the same faction of mob if alone and low on health).
- Include reverse-scaling, so going into a higher level area scales you up.
- Look into adding more jumping puzzles.
- Fix the damn armour clipping issues.

In the long term?

- Rebuild the cities, redesign them to be the glorious things they were meant to be.
- Look at how to add in some content which is genuinely varied and fun. (Some proper puzzles and mysteries would be nice.)
- Add some abilities to the professions which go outside of what they're 'supposed to do' to make them more varied and fun.
- Finally add in those city activities, try to do something fun. (Like helicopter flying.)
- Make the personal home city area worthwhile. Add in some fun missions to customise it.
- Make the races feel more cool to play, rather than being timid with them.

And don't tell me these can't be done. Champions Online has a skeleton crew of a dev team and with that they managed a drastic redesign of an area which is far bigger than any of the GW2 cities. ArenaNet has resources pouring out the wazoo! They're drowning in them. They have more people than they know what to do with. It's just that their priorites are all wrong. Maybe they just need to sack some of the higher-ups who're making all of these bad decisions.

View PostZippor, on 17 November 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

And I'm finding most of the things I do in Guild Wars 2, fun.
You think that content which is exclusively the following is fun?

- Kill through waves of kamikaze zerging foes, all almost identical to the last.
- Interact with objects, most of which are just reskins.
- Resurrect people.

You think that, for example, walking along a beach and interacting with flotsam and jetsam is fun?

Okay then.

You and I have a different definition of fun.

To me, your definition of fun sounds like busywork. My definition of fun sounds like fun.

And noap, not going to stop linking that until people finally see what I'm getting at. :I

--- Edit ---

Something else occurs to me...

Hands up, who here has played the naval battles in Assassin's Creed III? Some of you? Okay, yes, good. Right. So... ArenaNet is supposed to be this grand innovator, right? So, tell me this: Why do we not have anything like those in Guild Wars 2? Let me present you with an idea that's bloody fun.

You're in an flying clockpunk warship. Instead of the crappy final battle with Zhaitan, you're taking him out in this massive, incredible sky battle. Zhaitan stretches out as far as you can see. It's incredible. He has friendlies flying with him, and vulnerable points on his head, which you're flying near. You need to zip around the ship, piloting it, using the various weapons (which do different things) to attack his minions and him, and you need to work on repairing the ship to keep it in the air.

Even better, you're one of a fleet. Each ship has five to ten players on it, with a total of perhaps 10-20 ships. You're working with the others ships to keep the pressure on, you weave in and out, doing what you can before retreating. There are even repair cannons on the ship which you can use to aid others. So if one of the ships is doing really good, you can keep the minions off them and repair them as they fight.

And perhaps add in massive tesla coil guns that can stun all the minions within an area for X amount of seconds. The idea here is that all of the ships would have all of these guns, to damage minions/Zhaitan, to control, and to repair. This would represent the true design that ArenaNet were trying to uphold, where everyone could do whatever role was required of them at the time.

This would require actually manning stations on the ships in first or third person.

What if we'd had something like that instead of the bloody awful final battle we did get? See, this is what I would have done. Because that would have been over the top and amazing. Do you know what else it would have been? Fun.

#2084371 Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

Posted DuskWolf on 17 November 2012 - 03:26 AM

View PostBriar, on 16 November 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Dear Anet,

I do not like your new more powerful gear
I do not want to feel like I have to drudgingly play through your game for the privilage of having fun playing your game
I will run dungeons because it is fun and I feel like it
I will sPvP because it is fun and I feel like it
I will WvW because it is fun and I feel like it
The promise of shinys does not make me want to do somthing, nore does it make it fun
If I wanted to work for shinys I would do it in real life, real life does it better - its called a job

I play a game to play a game

I work to work
Bravo! A brilliant post! Simply brilliant!

The point that some fail to realise is the failure to deliver on the potential of GW2. But what was that potential? What did they promise us? What was the core of it? Fun, dagummit! Fun!!

Today, people log on to scour the shores of a beach for flotsam and jetsam. What sort of depraved mind sees that as fun? Do they have actuaries developing content, there? Please, allow me to share some perspective with whomever is bold enough to read this: You have a book in your hands, and the chapter you're on describes a character who's walking along a beach checking similar items. There are only very base descriptions of the objects at hand, and you're aware that a lot of other people are sharing this activity with the protagonist. The motivation to do this is very suspect, and yet they do it because they've been told to do it.

You sit back, you look at your book, and you wonder whether you're reading some kind of psychiatry textbook. Because it all sounds like some twisted social experiment, as you couldn't imagine a more boring activity. But no, apparently the author thought that this would be fun to read. Instead, you put the book down. You saunter over to your bookshelf and pick up something with true adventure, emotiona, and drama in it. Something that's actually fun to read.

And fun is the problem here. Everything is timid, tame, quiet, and... how can I put this? Limited isn't quite the correct word. It's like a playground where every child is given edutational tasks, busywork to keep them quiet. Just enough to keep them interested, but not enough for them to be entertained. It's not fun, it's just something to do. The tasks keep the mind occupied, and the promise of better things brings in operant conditioning. Something better will be just around the corner, so let's continue with our menial labour for now. It will get better eventually. Except aside from a few moments, it doesn't. It really doesn't.

Operant conditioning is never a substitute for fun.

Anyone who reads this needs to understand the Rule of Fun.

I keep linking that in the hopes that people will read it and perhaps open their eyes.

Now, if I'd designed this game? The Black Citadel would have been much larger in scale. Lots more NPCs, and something almost akin to a fantasy dyson sphere. The engineer would have had a chainsaw at his disposal, along with other fun gadgets, and a small army of mobile bots to aid him in the field. The engineer himself would be in heavy armour that makes him look almost like a heavy tank, and he'd have massive presence on the battlefield. This is what I'd consider fun. To be honest, GW2 feels like a cheap knock off of the game I would have designed. Egotistical? Arrogant? Maybe. But bloody true.

Because if there's one thing I know... it's that fun is important. The Rule of Fun is the most important design rule of all. Instead, as a charr, I found my city to be underwhelming compared to the concept art. I found that my most fun tool as an enginere was a piss-poor 'flamethrower' that missed most of the time. How do you do that? How do you make a flamethrower unfun? How?! How bad do you have to be at design, how much must you hate fun, in order to make a flamethrower like the one engineers have to put up with in GW2? Who thought that was a good idea?

And this is the problem. GW2, as it stands, has an absence of fun. I don't find my city fun, I find it boring. I don't find my profession fun, I find it boring. I don't find the content fun, I find it boring. I don't find the new content fun, either. I mean, if you find sifting through junk on a beach to be genuinely fun then... I have to ask. Are you an actuary? Have you ever daydreamed? Ever read a comic book or a stirring novel? What's wrong with MMORPG developers and players? Are you all so soulless? So much so that you accept a treadmill as an acceptable substitute for fun.

What the hell, people?

And that's my problem. I don't want to log in to GW2 because none of the things I could do are fun. Hanging out in my city isn't fun. Playing the engineer isn't fun. Doing the content isn't fun. And unlike many MMORPG gamers, I'm not a weak-minded person who falls prey to operant conditioning. I don't think that a treadmill is the be-all-and-end-all answer to everything. And don't tell me that you need a treadmill to create fun, because that's utter nonsense. And don't tell me that it would be hard for ArenaNet to make GW2 fun, either.

I've played a bunch of indie games lately that were fun and had no need for progression. Hands up! How many of you have played Hotline Miami? Made by two people, no progression, and you want to keep playing it. Why? It's fun, damn it.

ArenaNet could fix this this. I KEEP STRESSING THIS.

But they'll only fix it if we pull our heads out of the sand and tell them that we want fun, not treadmills. I'm no one's enemy, here.

---- Edit ----

I kind of want to expand on how let down I feel by how tame and uncreative the game is.

Okay, the Black Citadel. In the original concept art, it was a gigantic sphere. What this did with my imagination was a fantasy dyson sphere. Yes. Basically, what I thought was that due to the unique physiology of oozes, they could basically have an oozecore, constantly lit up. That would work similar to geothermal energy for them, and they'd use that to power the various parts of the Citadel, all of which would be a giant, self-replicating machine. A machine that produces more.

This would explain how they manufacture the various things that they do. The massive let down that is the actual Black Citadel doesn't at all have the scope to support the kind of things they're building, and that disappoints me. How amazing would a giant dyson sphere of black metal have been? Instead of just the slapdash war camp that it turned out to be, with random bits of junk plating, it could have been this beautiful clockpunk machine with lots of moving parts.

They instanced the game, so there's really no excuse. Even with the amount of players, a properly optimisd engine can run very complex looking locales populated by lots of units. Look at Assassin's Creed, for example. Or, hell, Everquest II. EQ II had absolutely massive cities. And with that sort of design they could have really lived up to the original concept art. Instead, it's just ... timid, tame. "No, no," I can almost hear the actuary heading up GW2's design saying, "that's far too over the top. Their tiny minds wouldn't be able to have that much fun. Tone it down. Make it smaller. Smaller. More humble. Less impressive. It's still not unimpressive enough. Do you have a problem understanding the concept of less impressive?"

And the end result just leaves me feeling cold.